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CorpGovActivist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 04:02 PM
Original message
Since mtnester Reduced Me to Tears...
Edited on Mon Jan-07-08 04:11 PM by CorpGovActivist
... in this http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=2613179&mesg_id=2613179">thread with the touching story of a son's coming out, here's mine, cross-posted.

This is why LGBT issues are at or near the top of my list of issues by which I am yardsticking the Democratic candidates.

- Dave
******************************************************************
Since you reduced me to a gushing mess, here's the story.

I knew I had an affinity for other boys at a very young age. The problem was, I was already "different," having been tagged by the school system as some kind of off-the-charts genius by the end of kindergarten. I still have never seen the results of the testing; the tests were (still are) locked away.

But all of society's programming said things like "Jack and JILL went up the hill," ya know? So why be any more "different" than I already was? Oh, yes, those subtle societal signals come thru loud and clear, even at that age.

So, I became the quiet kid; the one who didn't raise his hand, but still got called on by the teacher anyway, when nobody else knew the answer. I learned to overcome that social stigma by tutoring other kids, and by befriending everyone - including social outcasts.

By 4th grade, I began to understand that the aforementioned "affinity" was sexual. I was enthralled by the "bad boys" telling dirty jokes at the lunch table and during PE. I listened quietly, wishing I could join in their banter.

During junior high, I also went out for sports that I sucked at, so that there was reciprocity for my tutoring, and so that others could coach/mentor me at something that didn't come naturally to me. On the team bus in junior high, I came out of my shell, and became the kid with the BEST dirty jokes. I checked out joke books from the library to that end.

The team bus got me through my parents' divorce when I was in 9th grade.

I continued to befriend social outcasts; by now, I was worried that if my "deep, dark secret" ever came out, maybe - just maybe - some of them would stick by me.

During my junior year of high school, I began to exhibit the symptoms of Crohn's. My teachers and my parents thought that I was overdoing it. I went out for every extracurricular activity I could fit in; my jam-packed schedule became the built-in excuse for why I wasn't dating anyone seriously. "I'll date when I get into college."

When the Crohn's diagnosis was finally rendered my senior year of high school, I wondered if it was God punishing me for being gay. Many nights in my early teens, I'd prayed for God to change me. We'd stopped going to the Pentecostal church I grew up in soon after my parents divorced (at 3 times a week, for 16 years, I have 48 years' worth of church under my belt already). Even though my mom explicitly rejected the pulpit teachings about gay people after any sermon that mentioned it, I still couldn't help but wonder.

The Crohn's diagnosis coincided with: (1) my garnering a Navy ROTC Scholarship; and (2) my early admission to Harvard. I took the oath as a midshipman, but when DODMERB finally got around to reading my medical disclosures, I got booted out: Crohn's is non-waiverable, even though Eisenhower had it (a fact I brought up in my appeal). I took the oath when Saddam was making human shields out of Western visitors in the summer of 90.

College in Cambridge was incredibly liberating. For the first time, I had: (1) anonymity (small towns, pre-Internet, were not conducive to anonymity); and (2) opportunity (can you say, "kid in a candy store"?).

The added bonus was that my parents were hundreds of miles away.

Even though my siblings and I piled up in my sister's bed for bedtime stories at least once a week growing up (my mom does incredible voice work for all the parts); even though she took that opportunity to repeat and gently emphasize that she would love us and support us "no matter what" (including if we robbed a bank, killed someone, ... ,"turned out to be gay"); even though I knew that I would not be rejected ... well, I hadn't come to grips with it yet, and I wasn't quite ready to tell my family.

My calls from college grew rarer. They were shorter. They were about the weather, and other inconsequential topics. The questions I received about dating either ended the call, or brought about a quick change of subject.

Freshman year of college ('90) I discovered the Internet. As line-based research tools (GOPHERS, alt. newsgroups, listservs, etc.) gave way to GUI-based interfaces (Mosaic), I rode the wave.

That's how I met my first serious boyfriend (my senior year), a Newfie who was almost on the Canadian Olympic gymastics team. He broke my heart, and I guess it came through over the phone lines. When my younger sister came up to visit me that year - later, I found out, she'd been sent as a scout - I broke down and told her I am gay. Swearing her to secrecy, I let it all out.

When Commencement activities rolled around in May/June of '94, I was on pins and needles. My family was coming up to Cambridge for more than a week, classes were over, extracurriculars were over; in short, I was royally screwed: trust me, there were no "Not Me" ghosts in our family circus. My mom could get to the bottom of a "Not Me" poltergeist incident in record time. Alarmed at my withdrawal, she was on a mission.

Yup, I was royally screwed.

I still managed to enjoy Commencement. Gore spoke; it was his 25th Reunion. His daughter was a year behind me, in another house.

My parents went home, and I somehow held out. When they drove around the bend out of sight, I started bawling.

A month later, I found some liquid courage of my own, and called home.

"Mom, I'm gonna rent a car and drive down this weekend to spend a week. There's something important I need to tell you."

Well, that went over like a lead Hindenburg.

Was I on drugs?

!!!

What?!?

I reassured her that I had still never even smoked a cigarette (still haven't), and was genuinely pissed that she would think such a thing.

She started playing Twenty Questions over the phone, eliminating her worst fears one by one.

I kept telling her that it was something that needed saying face-to-face, and kept trying to reassure her that it wasn't "bad," just "important."

This was the first real conversation we'd had in a while, and she wasn't about to let it go. Finally, I broke down and told her.

"Are you sure that's all? You're really not on drugs?"

Yup. That was all.

"Thank God. Your sister told me months ago, but I just couldn't believe that you'd avoid me over THAT."

Say WHAT NOW?!?

Needless to say, soon afterwards my sister and I had a "come to Buddha" discussion on sibling solidarity.

I drove down that weekend, and we talked. And talked. And talked. And made pots of tea and coffee, and talked some more. Four years' worth of college stories (the ones that truly mattered) to tell. She had epiphanies about why I went out for certain activities before college: "Oh, you wanted to spend more time with X," or "Oh, you DID have crushes after all."

My stepdad was hilarious: "But (long pause) you (long pause) played baseball."

Yup, and I'm still a diehard Yankees fan with a reserved batting cage time.

My younger brother was a pip: "I thought that might be the case. You couldn't dance when you left, but you could when you got back that first summer. You were going clubbing *somewhere*."

Soon after coming out to my family (that same summer after Commencement, in fact), I met my partner - online, arguing in an IT chat room. Go figure. At the time, I figured he'd be a good rebound. Go figure. Some rebound.

A couple of years after meeting him, I broke down and told my Maw Maw, my grandmother. It was important to me that she know. Your son's situation was the very one I wrestled with, and it - phew! - still brings me to tears to think about her reaction.

I was nervous telling her. That, despite the fact that a few years prior, she made a point of telling me that one of her nephews - my 2nd cousin - had come to visit her after losing his mother (my great-aunt and my grandmother's sister). He broke down and told her: (1) he was gay; and (2) he was HIV positive. She made a point of telling me how she'd become a surrogate mom to him, and what she was doing to support him.

When I told her, I thought she might have told me that story for reasons besides the fact that we'd always been especially close. I thought maybe her intuition had told her about me, and she was sending me a signal that it was OK to tell her.

It hadn't. She wasn't.

Once she got over the initial shock, she was perfect. Soon afterwards, I took my partner to meet her. He'd lost his own (special, close) grandma the winter before we met.

There have only been two times I've ever seen him cry. The first was when we got in the car to leave: "She reminds me of my Grandma J."

My Maw Maw can cook. I cannot; I am Lucille Ball on the conveyor belt at the chocolate factory in the kitchen. My partner (a creative genius in the kitchen) has been entrusted with her recipes! (Even the chicken 'n dumplins.)

So, there you have it.

I have friends who've had initial fallings-out with their families, only to patch things up later after the dust settled. I hope your son's friend is able to repair her relationship.

This helps explain why - after nearly 14 years of partnership - I'm putting LGBT rights near the top of my list of issues by which to yardstick the candidates.

As for your son's snarky irreverence: (1) irreveRANTS through it, to coin a pun; and (2) it's more fun for parents to see a snarky, irreverant son or daughter find a partner who routinely gets the better of their brat (trust me, my whole family would agree; they love it when my partner lays me out with one of his quick quips or one-liners, and his family feels the same way about me).

So stop praying that your son'll tone it down; start praying instead that he'll find a partner who'll give him a run for his money.

Then stock up on popcorn, and keep his bedroom available for entertaining visits.

: )

- Dave

P.S. My dad has been great, too.

P.P.S. Has your son started teasing ya'll about who made him gay, and how? My siblings and I get a huge rise out of my mom, especially. That, plus reminding her that she included "being gay" on a list with "robbing a bank" and "killing someone" - as one of the things we could do and still warrant her unconditional love. "I didn't mean it like THAT!" she retorts, indignantly. Works every time.
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Spiffarino Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 05:18 PM
Response to Original message
1. Thank you for that
I have three daughters, none of whom have (so far) have turned out to be gay. I've always wondered, liberal as I am, if I would react to such a revelation in a way that would be helpful rather than painful to my daughter. Your story reinforces my belief that, in the end, it's all about loving one another.

It's obvious your parents love you very, very much. You're a lucky guy.
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CorpGovActivist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 05:22 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. I Am Extraordinarily Lucky...
... and so are other kids who receive unconditional love and thoughtful parenting.

: )

:hug:

Just be there for them if and when they need you, no matter the problem.

- Dave
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Spiffarino Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 06:29 PM
Response to Reply #2
10. I will do it
And thank you for the tears I am now shedding. I just grew a little.
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CorpGovActivist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 06:41 PM
Response to Reply #10
13. Tears Water Personal Growth I Find
:hug:

- Dave
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Yuugal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 05:31 PM
Response to Original message
3. Awesome post
K&R
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CorpGovActivist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 05:42 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. Thanks! Awesome Parents, Awesome Life n/t
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Lugnut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 05:33 PM
Response to Original message
4. I'm straight
I'm not narrow. I'm so happy to hear that you have so much support from your family. Thank you for sharing your story.

I have a young niece whose parents are in denial about her and it breaks my heart. She'a a beautiful, loving, caring sweetheart who is forced to keep her life and her partner behind a curtain that nobody opens.
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CorpGovActivist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 05:44 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. "Str8, but Not Narrow" Is One of My Favorite Bumper Stickers...
... and you can be such a support to your niece simply by asking - as if it were the most normal thing possible - about her life, her partner, their jobs, their recent vacations, their recent movies/books/music enthusiasms, etc.

:hug:

- Dave
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tavalon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-08-08 10:01 PM
Response to Reply #6
97. A friend of mine used to wonder whether his brother knew
not that my friend was gay, because he wasn't, but whether his brother knew. It was so obvious to us. Then his brother moved to New York and lets just say, getting away from Texas was the best thing ever, for him. Unfortunately, his parents have had a hard time, but the rest of us are just grateful he was finally able to get to the right place for himself. He seems 100% happier.
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Lone_Star_Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 05:49 PM
Response to Original message
7. "Are you sure that's all? You're really not on drugs?"
Edited on Mon Jan-07-08 05:57 PM by Lone_Star_Dem
I love your mom and I've never even met her.

What a beautiful post depicting the joy of a loving supportive family.

K&R


Edit: You may want to add "Hillary, Obama and Edwards all suck" in the title. Just to get people to open this moving thread.
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CorpGovActivist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 06:17 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. She's Led a Very Tough Life, and Still...
... became an amazing parent. She still has old students from her teaching aid days and Sunday School teacher days who seek her out for advice.

She was the neighborhood mom. Our property was large enough to play regulation baseball.

As for adding the suggested words - nah, but I appreciate the sentiment.

; )

- Dave
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lildreamer316 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 06:24 PM
Response to Original message
9. Kick. Rec. Love.
Thanks for sharing....
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CorpGovActivist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 06:32 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. Love. Hugs. Giggles.
You bet!

Love the Cheshire Cat animated gif, too!

; )

- Dave
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K Gardner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 06:33 PM
Response to Original message
12. Gratitude for the sharing of such a beautiful, touching and personal story :-)
K&R
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CorpGovActivist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 06:47 PM
Response to Reply #12
15. I Am Extremely Fortunate - My Family ROCKS! Thank You! n/t
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Missy Vixen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 06:41 PM
Response to Original message
14. Dave
What a wonderful story. Here's to loving and supportive parents. :toast:

We all deserve to give and receive love, and to have our significant others recognized and respected by not only our families and friends, but by the state. Those who don't think so are less than human.

Julie
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CorpGovActivist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 06:50 PM
Response to Reply #14
17. Julie, I'll Toast...
... to that!

:toast:

Thanks!!!

- Dave
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OneGrassRoot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 06:49 PM
Response to Original message
16. No words other than "thank you"...
but many, many hugs!

:hug: :grouphug: :hug: :pals: :hug:
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CorpGovActivist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 06:51 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. I Like ...
... the huddle hug:

:grouphug:

BREAK!

; )

- Dave
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CorpGovActivist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 07:16 PM
Response to Original message
19. P.S.
Irony abounds: I had no idea about the Hillary cries story today when I got choked up.

- Dave
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Laurab Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 07:59 PM
Response to Original message
20. "Error you've already recommended that"
What a great story, and what a great family you have, Dave. And the other story was moving, too. I feel so badly for the girl whose parents threw her out. I cannot understand how a parent could ever do that.

I was interested in this paragraph from the other thread: "My mom is either 16th of 16 or 17th of 17, depending on which of her older siblings you ask. I strongly suspect it's a sex-linked set of genes, based on the spread of gay first cousins, and based on emerging research. I try to avoid recurring questions about whether I think that's the case, because I think there may be residual guilt. I can remember noting the "affinity," but I sure as hell don't recall saying, "Yup, this is the 'lifestyle' for me."

One of my four brothers is gay, at least 2 of my first cousins are, an uncle was, possibly 2 uncles (my dad wasn't close to his family), and I strongly believe it has something to do with genes, too. Ever since my brother came out, I've always known it wasn't choice, too, and I know that because there is no way in the world I could be attracted to the same sex. Whenever someone tells me it's a choice, I ask them if they could be attracted to the same sex, and that seems to make them think a bit.

My brother also gets offended if someone says no one would choose to live such a difficult way, or something similar, because he doesn't think it's difficult. It's just who he is. I don't even remember his coming out - it just wasn't that big a deal in our family. I think there might have been a temporary problem with mom, but it was short-lived. We're a large close knit, smart-ass type family, constantly insulting each other (lovingly, of course), and I think all of us would agree we wouldn't have our family any other way.

I just really wish my brother would find someone to settle down with - he's having some health issues right now, and he's across the country, and it would be so nice to know he had someone special, although his ex is still in his life, and almost like part of our family, it's not the same as having someone always there.

A great family is SUCH a gift!
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CorpGovActivist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 08:19 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. Hmmmm...
1. Though the scientific evidence is not yet conclusive, there is a very large - and growing - body of evidence to suggest that it's both genetic, and probably a cluster of sex-linked genes.

2. Regarding the difficulty: it's very possible to lead an out, open, proud, and fulfilling life. But it's also easy to encounter issues that are tough calls: for me, for instance, the issue of kids is a tough call. I believe the best interests of the child should be paramount. I have misgivings about subjecting any child to the cruelty of taunting over having two dads.

3. Loving, smart-ass families ROCK!

4. PM me. Maybe we can do a "fix-up" for your brother, like Bree Hodge last night!

:rofl:

If you watch Desperate Housewives, let me know.

- Dave
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Laurab Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 08:58 PM
Response to Reply #21
24. Well I don't think the scientific evidence of
alcoholism being genetic is conclusive yet, but I KNOW it is. That also runs in our family, and I was the recipient of that "gift", albeit 22 years sober now. I feel the same way about sexual preference gene - it's conclusive enough for me.

I just remember my brother getting offended with me one time for suggesting no one would choose a difficult life like that - I'm aware of the difficulties, but he didn't like the way I referred to it I guess.

I think where you live has a lot to do with the ease of being out - he lives in Southern Cal, where it seems no one thinks anything of it. Prior to that, he lived in Boston, and he was quite comfortable with it - he says he could never live here in Western NY, though.

I don't think it will be too long before two dad, two mom families abound, and there will be too many for taunting, but we're probably not there yet. It doesn't seem to be something my brother wants, and he's not getting any younger - I think he's about 10 years older than you. He is GREAT with kids, though, and my two think nothing of him being gay.

I think it would be sad for someone who wants them to miss out on such a fulfilling experience. A loving stable family is just that, and I know if it were me, I'd go the more selfish route.

The thing is, aside from one long-lasting, serious relationship, he's way too fickle to settle down - I would love to see him do it, and have kids, too if that was what he wanted. I think maybe this brush with illness may make him a little more serious about relationships.

I don't watch "Desperate Housewives" - in fact, I don't watch anything except TDS and Colbert, and Bill Maher whose new season starts tomorrow, I just remembered. I've been going crazy with the Writers Guild strike! I've taken to watching movies, something I've never really done before.

I agree: " Loving, smart-ass families ROCK!"

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CorpGovActivist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 09:26 PM
Response to Reply #24
27. You've Given Me More to Ponder...
"alcoholism being genetic is conclusive yet, but I KNOW it is. That also runs in our family, and I was the recipient of that 'gift,' albeit 22 years sober now. I feel the same way about sexual preference gene - it's conclusive enough for me."

Interesting. My mom was really worried about us drinking, for the reason that it runs in her family. None of us have the least problem with it. The Crohn's even helps give me an (unfair, according to Ides) advantage in drinking games. Congrats on 22 years!

"I just remember my brother getting offended with me one time for suggesting no one would choose a difficult life like that - I'm aware of the difficulties, but he didn't like the way I referred to it I guess.

I think where you live has a lot to do with the ease of being out - he lives in Southern Cal, where it seems no one thinks anything of it. Prior to that, he lived in Boston, and he was quite comfortable with it - he says he could never live here in Western NY, though."

You're right; it has a lot to do with where you live. When I was home in December, I was pleasantly surprised to see how things are progressing there. I could live there now.

"I don't think it will be too long before two dad, two mom families abound, and there will be too many for taunting, but we're probably not there yet. It doesn't seem to be something my brother wants, and he's not getting any younger - I think he's about 10 years older than you. He is GREAT with kids, though, and my two think nothing of him being gay.

I think it would be sad for someone who wants them to miss out on such a fulfilling experience. A loving stable family is just that, and I know if it were me, I'd go the more selfish route."

Both of our families know we adore kids, and have urged us to consider it. If someone doesn't give us a niece of nephew to spoil soon, I'm going to lose it.

; )

"The thing is, aside from one long-lasting, serious relationship, he's way too fickle to settle down - I would love to see him do it, and have kids, too if that was what he wanted. I think maybe this brush with illness may make him a little more serious about relationships."

I hope he's doing OK, recovering, and taking stock. Sudden or chronic illness tends to do have that effect.

"I don't watch 'Desperate Housewives' - in fact, I don't watch anything except TDS and Colbert, and Bill Maher whose new season starts tomorrow, I just remembered. I've been going crazy with the Writers Guild strike! I've taken to watching movies, something I've never really done before."

What kinds of movies do you like?

"I agree: 'Loving, smart-ass families ROCK'!"

Oh yeah!

- Dave
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unapatriciated Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 08:38 PM
Response to Original message
22. Thanks for your story
It reminded me of my daughter and how she worried about telling me. She had no problem telling all three of her brothers, who have always supported her. I asked why she felt safe telling them and not me. That's when she reminded me of a few of my "I didn't mean it like THAT!" stories. We have had ups and downs in our relationship(usually about me spoiling my grandson too much)but never has she doubted my love for her.
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CorpGovActivist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 08:45 PM
Response to Reply #22
23. Parents Can Be Sooooooooooooo Ignorant
"When I was a boy of fourteen, my father was so ignorant I could hardly stand to have the old man around. But when I got to be twenty-one, I was astonished at how much the old man had learned in seven years." -- Mark Twain

; )

:hug:

- Dave

P.S. Moms aren't allowed to have a favorite; grandmothers are.
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unapatriciated Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 09:08 PM
Response to Reply #23
26. all my grandchildren are my favorites
and they let each other know all the time. I also want to thank you for the link to Edwards regarding LBGT rights. I'm a Kucinich supporter but also a realist and their is too much at stake in this election. Both hubby and I were concerned that his personal views would cloud his judgment.
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CorpGovActivist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 09:33 PM
Response to Reply #26
29. Our Maw Maw...
... kept all of our favorite snack foods on hand. It is still commented upon at family reunions: "How did she do that?!?"

As for the links: I hope you looked at his video segments. Thank you for taking the time to bone up on his position on these issues.

- Dave
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JuniperLea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 09:08 PM
Response to Original message
25. Dammit! You had to go make me cry at my desk!
Edited on Mon Jan-07-08 09:08 PM by Juniperx
Thanks:)

:hug:

Great story!

I worked for a gay couple for many, many years, in their home office... literally in their home. One had tried to "do the right thing" and got married. He felt horrible, naturally, and finally came clean and started divorce proceedings. His family decided to keep the ex wife, instead of him. There's a lot more to it than that, but I think you'll get the gist.

Both have since died of AIDS. I worked for them until they retired, and kept in touch... watching the slow decline and inevitable ends. They were the brightest, most caring, thoughtful and honest people I've ever known, and I love them and miss them terribly to this day.

When asked about being afraid to work with them when they were so ill, I said, if it's so easy to get, we all have it anyway. I brought my kids to their home too, on days they were off school. I never discussed their sexuality until they were both gone, then I had to explain why two middle aged men had died. The kids were shocked, saying they didn't even know the two were gay. And they asked me why I never said anything to them about it... why would I? Would it have changed how you felt about them? Would it have changed your behavior? I knew these kids would love this pair of incredible human beings. It didn't change how they felt after learning my two dear friends were gay. I then told my kids that Mack and Mike had been in love and living together for over 20 years.

Every time we pass their beautiful home, we comment on how lovely Mack's blue pine looks, and how happy he would be to see it flourish. And how nicely the new owners are caring for the California Bungalow Mack and Mike had lovingly restored to it's former glory. I feel blessed to have spent those last years with these two wonderful people.

Dammit... I'm going to go cry again... jeez!!!
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CorpGovActivist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 09:31 PM
Response to Reply #25
28. Have a Kleenex, and Blow! *wink*
"Thanks ... Great story!"

Thanks! I'm pretty freakin' lucky.

"I worked for a gay couple for many, many years, in their home office... literally in their home. One had tried to 'do the right thing' and got married. He felt horrible, naturally, and finally came clean and started divorce proceedings. His family decided to keep the ex wife, instead of him. There's a lot more to it than that, but I think you'll get the gist."

Ouch. That happens, unfortunately.

"Both have since died of AIDS. I worked for them until they retired, and kept in touch... watching the slow decline and inevitable ends. They were the brightest, most caring, thoughtful and honest people I've ever known, and I love them and miss them terribly to this day."

As I'm sure you know, the advances are helping many - even those who failed prior regimens. I am so sorry you lost your friends.

"When asked about being afraid to work with them when they were so ill, I said, if it's so easy to get, we all have it anyway. I brought my kids to their home too, on days they were off school. I never discussed their sexuality until they were both gone, then I had to explain why two middle aged men had died. The kids were shocked, saying they didn't even know the two were gay. And they asked me why I never said anything to them about it... why would I? Would it have changed how you felt about them? Would it have changed your behavior? I knew these kids would love this pair of incredible human beings. It didn't change how they felt after learning my two dear friends were gay. I then told my kids that Mack and Mike had been in love and living together for over 20 years."

What a blessing and a lesson. I'm sure your children were a blessing to them. I'm sure the experience left an indelible mark on your kids.

"Every time we pass their beautiful home, we comment on how lovely Mack's blue pine looks, and how happy he would be to see it flourish. And how nicely the new owners are caring for the California Bungalow Mack and Mike had lovingly restored to it's former glory. I feel blessed to have spent those last years with these two wonderful people."

Wow.

"Dammit... I'm going to go cry again... jeez!!!"

Pass that box of Kleenexes back, please.

- Dave
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unapatriciated Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 09:34 PM
Response to Reply #25
30. Thinking like that is because of the Huckabee's of this world
My youngest son became very ill when he was 13 and spent many long stays at Childrens. During on stay he met a young man with hemophilia and hiv positive. Since they were both the same age and neither had a roommate they wanted to share a room. Some of the staff objected thought it might be a health issue for my son (he had open sores and was immunosurpressed to control his disease). So I asked his doctor if their was any risk, she said "Not unless they are going to engage in some heavy breathing deep tongue activities, I don't see a problem". My son's doctor was a very soft spoken gentle person and to hear those words come out of her mouth had me rolling on the floor with laughter. I think it was the first time I had laughed since my son became ill. Tim and my son roomed together for three months and stayed friends until he moved away.
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CorpGovActivist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 10:07 PM
Response to Reply #30
32. Wow...
... is your son OK now? Do you mind sharing the nature of the illness? As an auto-immune disorder sufferer, I monitor breakthroughs.

Is the other youngster OK?

What a gift you gave that young man - and his family. Simple companionship means so much during a hospital stay.

- Dave
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unapatriciated Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 10:48 PM
Response to Reply #32
34. My son is now 29 disabled but happy
Edited on Mon Jan-07-08 10:52 PM by unapatriciated
has a wonderful girlfriend of seven years (they would love to be married but he would lose most of his disability and health care if they did) and attending the Art Institute of San Francisco. He was diagnosed with Dermatomyositis in 1991. Most children are sick for less than two years and suffer little or no permanent damage from it. Unfortunately my son went in and out of active disease over a ten year period that left him with very little muscle mass or strength. The last time he had to be hospitalized for active disease was at age 22. It's rare but they are seeing more and more cases each year not sure if it is better testing and earlier diagnoses or as I suspect environment. We lost contact with Tim when he moved from the Los Angels area at age 18 my son found him on myspace a while back but lost contact again. It was Tim who gave to us, when my son would be too exhausted to go to Physical Therapy Tim would be there with a smile and encouragement. He looked past my son's physical appearance, (Dermato destroys skin tissue as well as muscle and leaves scarring much like a burn victim) and was a true friend. They pulled lots of tricks on the nurses. Damn you have made me cry twice tonight first with your post and now I'm really missing my kids. Can't wait for March.

edited to add question
How close are you to VA Tech? My bother (dave) lives and works there.
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CorpGovActivist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 11:11 PM
Response to Reply #34
38. Wow...
... that's a new one. I'll do some research. I fully understand the tough choices on disability; that's an issue that the next Administration should reform, to make it easier for people to return to work without losing vital benefits.

Pediatric nurses are used to the pranks.

Tech is down closer to my family in WV. I'm in Northern VA. Blacksburg is about 1 hour south of my folks; lots of kids from my high school go there.

Glad to hear your son found someone who sees his heart!

- Dave
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AZBlue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 09:54 PM
Response to Original message
31. You're right.
Your family does rock! And so do you!!
:hug:

Thanks for sharing this. K&R.
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CorpGovActivist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 10:08 PM
Response to Reply #31
33. Your Avatar...
... made me giggle. I love penguins.

Thanks! Yeah, my family is full of people I'd be friends with, even if they weren't family.

: )

:hug:

- Dave
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UTUSN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 10:57 PM
Response to Original message
35. I read your entire o.p. & it ain't that touching
Edited on Mon Jan-07-08 10:58 PM by UTUSN
Every single one of us has our own personal CRAP!1 & gayness ain't crap, NOR is it an excuse for CRAP.


I've checked out your homepage or whatever, where you thanked Senator CLINTON for attention to your Long LETTERS.


AND you are totally impressed with yourself for being an elementary school GENIUS.


You've SPAMMED the board for weeks/months. Just get over yourself, will you?!1
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OPERATIONMINDCRIME Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 10:59 PM
Response to Reply #35
36. ....
:applause:

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JuniperLea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-08-08 12:56 PM
Response to Reply #36
83. Of all people...
I would have thought you would be more sensitive to the emotions of others... this makes me very sad.
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Laurab Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-08-08 01:35 PM
Response to Reply #83
86. I was going to mention that, as well.
but didn't. The outpouring of love and support for him was incredible, and seeing that made me very sad, too.
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OPERATIONMINDCRIME Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-08-08 01:36 PM
Response to Reply #83
87. Oh Don't Misread,
It's not the emotions I was responding to, but instead a sort of intent and theme. I don't want to get into though, but maybe will send you a PM later.
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AZBlue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-08-08 10:18 PM
Response to Reply #83
98. I'm absolutely floored.
And saddened.
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CorpGovActivist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 11:01 PM
Response to Reply #35
37. Thank You for Protecting Our First Amendment Rights in the Navy...
... I salute your service, and I appreciate the opportunity to exercise the rights you helped protect.

- Dave
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UTUSN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 11:28 PM
Response to Reply #37
42. I detest false "salutes" n/t
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CorpGovActivist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 11:29 PM
Response to Reply #42
43. How about Genuine "Thank Yous"? n/t
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UTUSN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 11:34 PM
Response to Reply #43
45. How about, "Don't you have something ELSE to do?!" n/t
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unapatriciated Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 11:38 PM
Response to Reply #45
47. might I ask the same question of you?
Why does this post anger you so much?
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CorpGovActivist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-08-08 12:21 AM
Response to Reply #45
51. How about, "I multitask quite efficiently, thank you." n/t
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unapatriciated Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 11:12 PM
Response to Reply #35
39. yes we all have our "own personal CRAP!'
Edited on Mon Jan-07-08 11:18 PM by unapatriciated
but that's kinda the point don't ya think? Through post like these we are finding out that we are not alone with our struggles in life and the need for better health care and equality for us all.

on edit: may I suggest that you ignore any post that you might consider CRAP. That way you can ignore the suffering of you fellow man and not feel any responsibility to bring about a change.
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UTUSN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 11:22 PM
Response to Reply #39
41. Could YOU *make* all the flamers who jump my threads IGNORE my threads, please?!1 n/t
Edited on Mon Jan-07-08 11:25 PM by UTUSN
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unapatriciated Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 11:34 PM
Response to Reply #41
46. haven't seen any of your threads
fairly new here but don't understand why you are so angry. If you don't care for his post don't read them. I don't agree with some on this board because of different views politically, not life experiences. Still they have the same rights as you and I to post.
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CorpGovActivist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-08-08 12:09 AM
Response to Reply #46
50. I Certainly Hope...
... s/he doesn't feel as if I've invaded his/her threads.

- Dave
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unapatriciated Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-08-08 12:32 AM
Response to Reply #50
52. I didn't know we had ownership of our threads
thought it was kinda like community property. Maybe he wants a divorce from DU? :shrug:
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CorpGovActivist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-08-08 12:41 AM
Response to Reply #52
54. I'll Waive Visiting Rights...
... to his/her threads.

- Dave
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conscious evolution Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-08-08 05:21 PM
Response to Reply #50
96. You are posting in other peoples threads now?
When did you start doing that? :shrug:















:rofl:
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fascisthunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 11:17 PM
Response to Reply #35
40. "Every single one of us has our own personal CRAP!1 & gayness ain't crap"
wow
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CorpGovActivist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 11:59 PM
Response to Reply #40
49. Eh...
... you get used to it.

- Dave
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JuniperLea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-08-08 12:53 PM
Response to Reply #40
81. I can't decide if I want to be angry, or sad about this person...
Wow... indeed.
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CorpGovActivist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-08-08 01:23 PM
Response to Reply #81
85. Just Be...
... compassionate.

- Dave
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JuniperLea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-08-08 02:26 PM
Response to Reply #85
90. Thanks, Dave...
You are so right. That is the theme here, right? We are all human, and we need to be ever vigilant to the greed, malice, and unsavory thoughts prone to humans.
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CorpGovActivist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-08-08 02:50 PM
Response to Reply #90
91. "Unsavory"
Sorry, but that word will forever be linked in my mind to "savory," which - in Harvard dining halls - meant, "don't you believe it."

:rofl:

- Dave
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Laurab Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-08-08 12:42 AM
Response to Reply #35
55. Maybe you should take your own advice
and get over yourself. Who appointed you board monitor, or the decider of what is or isn't "CRAP"? It seems you're a bit impressed with your own self.

I thought the OP was quite touching, he has a gift for writing, too. Many people can relate to the OP, obviously.

I'm unsure why you felt the need to post in this thread, but I'm guessing you're uncomfortable with the subject. I'd suggest you find one you're comfortable with, and post something there.

I've learned a lot from CGA's posts over the past year or so - and never once has he "SPAMMED" the board.

If anyone needs to find something better to do, it would be you. There are hundreds, if not thousands of threads here - why don't you find one you can add something to? And maybe, check out an anger management course, too.

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CorpGovActivist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-08-08 12:44 AM
Response to Reply #55
56. Thanks, Lori!
:hug:

- Dave
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Laurab Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-08-08 01:10 AM
Response to Reply #56
58. Anytime, Dave
I rarely see such a hate filled post, unless it's about a candidate, of course. You might be used to it, but I'm not - I give you credit for trying to be reasonable, where it's obvious reason isn't an option.

Be happy you didn't get the alcohol bug - hubby has 28 years, none of his kids really even drink, both of mine worry me somewhat already. But I had a grandpa, grandma (2 different sides), mom, dad, uncles & aunts that all qualify, and I'm the only one of the kids - so far, anyway, to inherit that one.

I like dumb movies, comedies, romantic comedies, some drama, NO scary ones or violence. My husband - the more violence, the better - if there's shooting and swearing in the first minute, that's a movie he'll like! :hug:
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CorpGovActivist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-08-08 01:35 AM
Response to Reply #58
60. Imponderable
"Be happy you didn't get the alcohol bug - hubby has 28 years, none of his kids really even drink, both of mine worry me somewhat already. But I had a grandpa, grandma (2 different sides), mom, dad, uncles & aunts that all qualify, and I'm the only one of the kids - so far, anyway, to inherit that one."

We were teetotalers until after my mom got remarried, so I didn't even try it until college. The way my Crohn's manifests, I metabolize it at a rapid rate; I'm a ringer in a drinking contest!

:rofl:

Not to make light of the disease, though, by any means. Several in my mom's extended family have struggled with it.

"I like dumb movies, comedies, romantic comedies, some drama, NO scary ones or violence. My husband - the more violence, the better - if there's shooting and swearing in the first minute, that's a movie he'll like!"

It's all about the writing, the plot, and an interesting twist on a formulaic story for me, regardless of the genre. We could send the "boys" out to a mindless shoot-em-up, and watch a quality flick! (Mine has learned that I'm as jazzed by a good explosion as anyone else, but the dialogue had better not have me laughing out loud at its absurdity.)

If you NetFlix, I could give you some recs for your queue.

- Dave
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JuniperLea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-08-08 12:54 PM
Response to Reply #55
82. Well said...
:hug:
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CorpGovActivist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-08-08 02:09 PM
Response to Reply #82
88. Can I Get in on That?
:grouphug:

- Dave
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JuniperLea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-08-08 02:25 PM
Response to Reply #88
89. You got it!
:grouphug:
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TheWatcher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-08-08 04:01 AM
Response to Reply #35
64. Why don't you try getting over your underlying bigotry first?
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CorpGovActivist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-08-08 11:34 AM
Response to Reply #64
76. Thanks! n/t
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Le Taz Hot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-08-08 09:22 AM
Response to Reply #35
70. Dude!
Who the hell pissed in your Cheerios? Criminee! :eyes:
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CorpGovActivist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-08-08 12:19 PM
Response to Reply #70
78. Eh...
... we all have our moments.

- Dave
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Hekate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 11:32 PM
Response to Original message
44. Damn, Dave. I meet the most amazing people on DU.
Two days ago I was ready to call it quits here over the intense Obama/McClurkin nastiness. I finally used Ignore on almost 2 dozen posters.

Then you posted about Edwards -- then Symbolman popped up -- and now you've done this one bouncing off the other one.

Why would I ever leave?

I already gave you one of these :grouphug:
but you get another one for good measure :hug:

Hekate
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CorpGovActivist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 11:41 PM
Response to Reply #44
48. It Can Get Frustrating...
... but this is an incredible online community.

Even when I find my teeth grinding, or my belly hurts from laughing at something I consider absurd, I learn from the other DUers here.

:hug: <------------- right back atcha

Don't leave. Thicken that skin, ignore (or, if you really must, Ignore) those who annoy you, and keep learning.

: )

- Dave
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calimary Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-08-08 12:37 AM
Response to Original message
53. Wow - what a GREAT post!
I am sorry for the inner agony you suffered all those years. I'm glad things are going so much better and smoother for you now!

A few of my longtime friends from way back in high school came out, one by one. What strikes me about each of them is how much happier and content on a deep inner level they are, since they did so. What unbearable loads on their shoulders and their hearts finally got lifted. How much freer, and less burdened they appear. Each of them has settled into a long, sustaining monogamous relationship. One couple adopted a little girl from South America. Another went through in vitro, became pregnant with twins, and now has a very happy, busy, noisy family. Another couple has weathered some of the most annoying storms brought about mainly by work situations and hours - they're still childless. But the point is - they're HAPPY! When they go home at night, they are no longer lonely and isolated and depressed. In some cases, the family took a long time to understand and be supportive, and finally to live and let live. It makes me wonder how they coped, suffering in silence, confusion, fear, and trepidation, worrying that someone they cared about deeply would no longer love them because of who they really were.

Thank you for sharing your story and your journey. You will have inspired, and strengthened, more than a few people with it.

:toast:
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CorpGovActivist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-08-08 12:56 AM
Response to Reply #53
57. Thanks, and Nice to Meet You!
"I am sorry for the inner agony you suffered all those years. I'm glad things are going so much better and smoother for you now!"

Oh, I was happy enough. It's just one facet of who I am. But yeah, I've been happier since I've been able to live my life out, proud, and with that facet put back in its proper perspective. It's an inherent part of who I am.

"A few of my longtime friends from way back in high school came out, one by one."

I was the first in my class of 469. I introduced my partner to the friends I cared about most the Christmas before the 10-year reunion, to ensure we had a core group of people to socialize with, and to set him at ease. After I came out that Christmas, a bunch of others began to come out.

"What strikes me about each of them is how much happier and content on a deep inner level they are, since they did so. What unbearable loads on their shoulders and their hearts finally got lifted. How much freer, and less burdened they appear."

Yup, it shows up in the face, the gait, the posture, the whole shebang.

"Each of them has settled into a long, sustaining monogamous relationship. One couple adopted a little girl from South America. Another went through in vitro, became pregnant with twins, and now has a very happy, busy, noisy family. Another couple has weathered some of the most annoying storms brought about mainly by work situations and hours - they're still childless. But the point is - they're HAPPY!"

Kids are still a subject of discussion for us.

"When they go home at night, they are no longer lonely and isolated and depressed."

My partner can relate to that more than I can. I went from high school, to college - where I dated, to the summer after - when I met my partner. However, I did write a note to God in my journal two weeks before we met: citing loneliness after my breakup, I asked God to send me someone to love. That was one prayer that got answered lickety split.

"In some cases, the family took a long time to understand and be supportive, and finally to live and let live. It makes me wonder how they coped, suffering in silence, confusion, fear, and trepidation, worrying that someone they cared about deeply would no longer love them because of who they really were."

Sometimes, it's simply the desire not to disappoint. I have friends with horrible family reaction stories.

"Thank you for sharing your story and your journey. You will have inspired, and strengthened, more than a few people with it."

I see so many encouraging signs for the LGBT youth of today. Those of us who can relate owe a debt to those that come behind, especially on such important issues as http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=gay+teen+suicide+rate">the LGBT teen suicide rate, http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=gay+teen+homelessness">homelessness, and http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=gay+teen+scholarship">educational opportunities.

Thank you for your kind words, and very nice to meet you!

:toast:

- Dave
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Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-08-08 01:23 AM
Response to Original message
59. Thank you for sharing this with us CorpGovActivist
:hug:

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CorpGovActivist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-08-08 01:38 AM
Response to Reply #59
61. I'd Give My ...
... grandmother's chicken 'n dumplin recipe (well, a copy of it, anyway) to have one-half of your artistic talent, which you share so generously with us here on DU.

:hug:

- Dave
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Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-08-08 01:44 AM
Response to Reply #61
62. Error: You've already recommended that thread.
Oops! And I did that BEFORE you payed me such a nice compliment. :D



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CorpGovActivist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-08-08 01:52 AM
Response to Reply #62
63. *giggle*
Edited on Tue Jan-08-08 01:53 AM by CorpGovActivist
Have you sent Ms. Perino a copy?

:rofl:

- Dave

P.S. I love your stuff. I sent you a shout out the other night during the debate.
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radfringe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-08-08 05:17 AM
Response to Original message
65. more upset by sister dropping out of highschool
there are 3 sibling in my family, I'm the oldest, my brother is 14 months younger, and my sister is 7 years younger than me

I remember one remark made by a friend of my mother regarding my brother and me. She quipped 'they put the stem on the wrong kid'

I was the one playing baseball, building tree houses, racing soapbox derby cars or assembling Ratfink models. My brother could be found drawing, gardening, or helping with cooking/baking.

my mother has always said if she needs help picking out material for new drapes she asks my brother, if she wants the drapery rods assembled and put up - she calls me.

my brother and I came out to each other when I was 20 and he was 19. We discussed telling 'the parents' - decided at that time not to hit them with a double barrel. If one of us decided to tell the parents we would give the other a heads up.

well - my brother decided to 'come out', didn't give me a heads up. So one day I get a phone call from my mother "your brother is gay, what about you?"

I responded with a 'me too' - the rest of phone call was a bit awkward, with neither of us knowing where to go with this.

around the same time my sister dropped out of highschool

my mother worked with a couple of friends of mine, who she knew were also gay/lesbian. she cornered them and told them that both myself and brother were gay, and didn't know how she felt about it.

they simply asked "between the time you knew and didn't know, have they changed at all? they were gay before you knew and gay now that you know - so what's the big deal. whether or not you accept it, they are still your kids."

my mother went through a bit of a 'crisis' for a few days, doing the "where did I go wrong/ I have two gay kids and a highschool dropout". then it occured to her she was more upset about my sister dropping out of highschool. Once she had that ephiphany, she's been fine with it.

as for my father - his initial reaction was that being gay was a 'fad'. (sidenote on my dad - he's so conservative he makes limbaugh look liberal). he's come around over the years, not sure if 30 years later he still thinks it's a fad or not.

in the intervening years, 3 of my parents closest friends have also divulged they too have 1 gay kid and were able to come to terms with it because of how my parents accepted having 2.
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CorpGovActivist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-08-08 10:36 AM
Response to Reply #65
71. First off...
... how are things? How's the new job?

:hug:

"there are 3 sibling in my family, I'm the oldest, my brother is 14 months younger, and my sister is 7 years younger than me"

Aren't younger siblings a royal PITA?!?

"I remember one remark made by a friend of my mother regarding my brother and me. She quipped 'they put the stem on the wrong kid'"

Now I've never heard that one before. Still...yikes.

"I was the one playing baseball, building tree houses, racing soapbox derby cars or assembling Ratfink models. My brother could be found drawing, gardening, or helping with cooking/baking."

What position? Where's your brother now?

"my mother has always said if she needs help picking out material for new drapes she asks my brother, if she wants the drapery rods assembled and put up - she calls me."

Kathy Griffin does a funny riff on "her" gays and lesbians, including about caulking a bathtub. I'm sure your mother says this with love.

"my brother and I came out to each other when I was 20 and he was 19. We discussed telling 'the parents' - decided at that time not to hit them with a double barrel. If one of us decided to tell the parents we would give the other a heads up.

well - my brother decided to 'come out', didn't give me a heads up. So one day I get a phone call from my mother 'your brother is gay, what about you'?"

The best laid plans of sis and bro. At least your sibling didn't pre-out you!

"I responded with a 'me too' - the rest of phone call was a bit awkward, with neither of us knowing where to go with this."

There are times I think Alexander Graham Bell was a moron.

"around the same time my sister dropped out of highschool"

My wild child younger brother (also the youngest) dropped out of college within a year of my coming out. He's pulling a 4.0 in college while working full time with troubled teens now, and loving it. He does especially well with the LGBT kids, and his wife is a keeper. Moms deserve hazard pay when we pull cluster bombs, huh?

"my mother worked with a couple of friends of mine, who she knew were also gay/lesbian. she cornered them and told them that both myself and brother were gay, and didn't know how she felt about it.

they simply asked 'between the time you knew and didn't know, have they changed at all? they were gay before you knew and gay now that you know - so what's the big deal. whether or not you accept it, they are still your kids'."

Nothing like a cold bucket of ice water reality.

"my mother went through a bit of a 'crisis' for a few days, doing the 'where did I go wrong/ I have two gay kids and a highschool dropout'. then it occured to her she was more upset about my sister dropping out of highschool. Once she had that ephiphany, she's been fine with it."

Did your sister eventually prove her wrong?

"as for my father - his initial reaction was that being gay was a 'fad'. (sidenote on my dad - he's so conservative he makes limbaugh look liberal). he's come around over the years, not sure if 30 years later he still thinks it's a fad or not."

When's the last time you asked him? I have to say: I was worried about my dad, and needn't have been.

"in the intervening years, 3 of my parents closest friends have also divulged they too have 1 gay kid and were able to come to terms with it because of how my parents accepted having 2."

We send the newly-grieving parents my mom's way.

So, how are things? I remember you posted beautiful pics of the early snow you guys got on that beautiful piece of property, but with this crazy weather, I'm sure it's all melted now. How's the new job?

- Dave
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radfringe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-08-08 12:11 PM
Response to Reply #71
77. Temps hit 60 yesterday - snow is gone....for now...
... how are things? How's the new job? New job is going great. love it! doing drafting and graphic design. the downside is the hour commute over hill and dale and literally through the woods. partner is still looking for work, she was laid off in September. has until March something for unemployment. The new pup, Tovah, is about 6 months old now, and she goes to the vet next week to be spayed. the other 2 dogs (greyhounds) and 5 cats are all doing well.

What position? Where's your brother now? in high school I played outfield or catcher. later on I played 1st base on a local town team.

my brother is in Minneapolis, working for the Minnesota Aids project. He is finally doing 'something' with his paintings besides stacking them in a back room. check out his site: http://ignudi.com/


"my mother went through a bit of a 'crisis' for a few days, doing the 'where did I go wrong/ I have two gay kids and a highschool dropout'. then it occured to her she was more upset about my sister dropping out of highschool. Once she had that ephiphany, she's been fine with it."

Did your sister eventually prove her wrong? after many years - she got her GED, is a single-mom with 2 daughters (ages 12 & 11) and is living near Minneapolis. has a good paying job.

So, how are things? I remember you posted beautiful pics of the early snow you guys got on that beautiful piece of property, but with this crazy weather, I'm sure it's all melted now. crazy weather? :rofl: over new years we had 2 snow storms come through for a total of around a foot of snow, followed by day time temps 20 or lower. Hit 60 degrees yesterday, snow all gone. But, fear not - temps are due to drop by end of the week and a snow storm coming in Sunday night into Monday morning...

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CorpGovActivist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-08-08 12:36 PM
Response to Reply #77
79. Let's See...
1. What does your partner do? What kind of work would make her happy?

2. Shortstop here.

3. Your brothers work and works - COOL!

4. Hopefully, your sister and your mom have come to terms with her path.

5. Since my birthday is coming up, I don't mind in the least if the weather stays just like this.

- Dave
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radfringe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-08-08 12:42 PM
Response to Reply #79
80. partner is all around office person
bookkeeping, office manager and anything else it takes to run an office

her dream job is to be kept woman.. she has been a bit disappointed I have set aside the toons as she wanted me to get syndicated and make big bucks drawing toons.... I just don't have the time to keep up on politics and do the toons... :(

HAPPY SOON-BIRTHDAY!!!
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CorpGovActivist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-08-08 12:59 PM
Response to Reply #80
84. Mine Is a COO/CFO/CTO Type...
... and I'm thinking of setting up a jar for vacation "donations" for every time he utters the word "practical," and letting him pick a peeve word, too for me to contribute.

; )

"her dream job is to be kept woman"

:rofl:

Well, you could always hire her as your manager, and spoil her rotten as she takes care of all the "practical" nuts and bolts.

"she has been a bit disappointed I have set aside the toons as she wanted me to get syndicated and make big bucks drawing toons.... I just don't have the time to keep up on politics and do the toons"

Try this. Buy a mini recorder for your commute. Get one with easy-to-fumble-for buttons, and keep your eye on the road. Record ideas for future toons.

: )

"HAPPY SOON-BIRTHDAY!!!"

Thanks! I'm gonna be this many.

- Dave
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mtnester Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-08-08 05:28 AM
Response to Original message
66. After our long talk yesterday..I kind of kicked back and enjoyed the warm
outdoors...

Then I read this thread this morning:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=2594149&mesg_id=2594149


and have now scared the hell out of myself again for the safety of all LGBT and all others.

Go with a open eye and sharps ears kids.

And thanks a LOT for the blush Dave (hah..you win!)

:)
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CorpGovActivist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-08-08 10:44 AM
Response to Reply #66
72. That Thread Was Moving...
... and the pictures are heartbreaking. One way we can minimize hate crimes is to directly take on the misinformed religious teachings that so often underlie these attacks. Please http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x2529514">see the OP and response #9 here.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0262985/">Queer As Folk took on the issue of hate crimes very early during its successful and critically-acclaimed run. They did a remarkable job showing various parents' reactions to coming out stories, too. If you've not seen this, you might add it to your list. Fair warning: its original run was on Showtime, and they didn't hold back on certain scenes.

Wanna make your son blush? Ambush him with a pre-screened episode that has a steamy scene in it (they're never gratuitous). Just don't tell him you heard it from me.

; )

- Dave
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Warren DeMontague Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-08-08 05:40 AM
Response to Original message
67. Thanks for the story, Dave.
I actually WAS on drugs throughout much of college, and I'm sure it would have been better for my GPA if I had just been gay, instead.

Anyway, good on ya. Glad things worked out well with your family.

And I agree about the candidates; I stand in solidarity with our LGBT citizens in the fight for full, unapologetic equality.

:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:
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LeftHander Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-08-08 08:31 AM
Response to Reply #67
68. ditto...thank you nt K&R
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CorpGovActivist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-08-08 10:54 AM
Response to Reply #68
74. Thanks! Nice Flag! n/t
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CorpGovActivist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-08-08 10:53 AM
Response to Reply #67
73. Thanks for Yours!
"I actually WAS on drugs throughout much of college, and I'm sure it would have been better for my GPA if I had just been gay, instead."

My younger brother works with troubled teens, my younger sister is a social worker, and my volunteer work involves many addicts. No judgments. My indignant reaction at the time was all about her thinking that I'd not listened to her teachings on the hazards of using, not about judgments about others.

"Anyway, good on ya. Glad things worked out well with your family."

Thanks, and good on ya, as well! Yup, they rock. Hope you've got a bunch of smartasses just like 'em.

"And I agree about the candidates; I stand in solidarity with our LGBT citizens in the fight for full, unapologetic equality."

Thank you! Honestly, you have no idea how uplifting it is for a "str8, but not narrow" type to give voice to that.

Come here, you!

:hug:

- Dave
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Le Taz Hot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-08-08 08:54 AM
Response to Original message
69. Thanks for sharing your story.
I know that coming out to family/friends can be traumatic sometimes. I've also know gays who've been reluctant to come out because they feared their family/friends would have a negative reaction, only to find out that most of them figured it out a long time ago. I know this has happened to me and, as a somewhat straight person, I'd like to say that it's REALLY frustrating to watch. I just want to say, "Will you PLEASE just come out already? WE KNOW!"

As a side note, I was speaking with a second cousin of mine yesterday whom I haven't seen in a long time. She was talking about her young grandson (I'm not sure how old) who seems to have a penchant for wearing female clothing. Tragically, she told me that they had recently bought him boots, a football and a couple of other "boy" items to, and I quote, "man him up." <cringe> Of course I argued that they should be celebrating the wonderful little human being that he is instead of putting some sort of stigma to his actions. The dress-up thing may be a temporary phase (my brother went through one of those) or the first signs of gender confusion or trans gender manifestation. It's impossible to know at this point and, imo, it shouldn't really matter. Unfortunately, I think it fell on deaf ears.

Anyway, thanks for your story. I enjoyed it.
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CorpGovActivist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-08-08 11:03 AM
Response to Reply #69
75. Wow. Thanks for Sharing That.
Edited on Tue Jan-08-08 11:04 AM by CorpGovActivist
"I know that coming out to family/friends can be traumatic sometimes. I've also know gays who've been reluctant to come out because they feared their family/friends would have a negative reaction, only to find out that most of them figured it out a long time ago. I know this has happened to me and, as a somewhat straight person, I'd like to say that it's REALLY frustrating to watch. I just want to say, 'Will you PLEASE just come out already? WE KNOW!'"

LOL. Yeah, after I rounded up the core group of my high school friends the Christmas before my 10-year high school reunion, to introduce them to my partner (so that we'd have a built-in set of people to socialize with, and to set him/them at ease before the big event), others started coming out: including the one guy we were all like, um, DUH! We played along.

"As a side note, I was speaking with a second cousin of mine yesterday whom I haven't seen in a long time. She was talking about her young grandson (I'm not sure how old) who seems to have a penchant for wearing female clothing. Tragically, she told me that they had recently bought him boots, a football and a couple of other 'boy' items to, and I quote, 'man him up.' <cringe>"

Poor little guy.

"Of course I argued that they should be celebrating the wonderful little human being that he is instead of putting some sort of stigma to his actions. The dress-up thing may be a temporary phase (my brother went through one of those) or the first signs of gender confusion or trans gender manifestation. It's impossible to know at this point and, imo, it shouldn't really matter. Unfortunately, I think it fell on deaf ears."

You're absolutely right about the range of possibilities. The healthiest reaction they could possibly have to his dress-up would be to enjoy it, take pictures of it with good humor and love, and - if they're hung up on orientation issues - cross their fingers that those pictures can be used as blackmail when he's dating in high school.

"Anyway, thanks for your story. I enjoyed it."

Glad you did, and thanks! If you want some talking points that might help your cousin, feel free to PM me.

- Dave
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helderheid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-08-08 02:58 PM
Response to Original message
92. GREAT POST!!
:applause:
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CorpGovActivist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-08-08 03:19 PM
Response to Reply #92
93. Thanks!
:hug:

- Dave

P.S. Dig your button.
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-08-08 04:15 PM
Response to Original message
94. Thank you for sharing your story
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CorpGovActivist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-08-08 04:41 PM
Response to Reply #94
95. Thanks for Reading It!
DU is a great place, huh?

- Dave
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-08-08 11:40 PM
Response to Reply #95
99. Sure is
Your story made me cry -- and that's good because it loosens up the emotions. :)
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