Is it more difficult for a black man or a white woman to become President?

[kentuck]

Which is the more difficult path? Is it easier for the black man to be accepted by the American people than it is for a white woman? What do you think and why?

[TwilightGardener]

1. Don't know--guess we'll find out in a few weeks.

[Hubert Flottz]

2. The GOP is counting on either or!

So the media has Xed Edwards. And maybe even stacked the deck again too.

[skipos]

3. Is it more difficult for a dem to become President when Nader and Bloomberg are

very likely to run against her? That is a better question.
And the answer is, yes.

[ccpup]

4. I think it's difficult for both

in very distinct ways.

For a black man, you're overcoming an entrenched sense of racism in certain areas of the country that many of them are completely unaware of.

For a white woman, you're overcoming an entrenched sense of misogyny and sexism in areas of the country that many of them are completely unaware of.

In truth, whenever we have something historic and groundbreaking occurring, something that has never been done before, the process is often messy and loud, but eventually successful even though it's often littered with the cast-off remnants of people's outdated beliefs and prejudices.

[MedleyMisty]

11. Why the "certain areas"?

Why not just "in the country"? All humans are prejudiced, and the ones who deny that prejudice exists in their "certain area" are the most completely unaware of it.

[ccpup]

16. I think I was tacitly referring to places where there may not

be larger cities, where education may not be what it could be, where life is much the same as it was twenty, thirty, forty years ago. Where what is different is often greeted with suspicion and where tradition and the security of the predictable is embraced.

[pnwmom]

5. Any woman.

Women didn't get the vote until 50 years after men of color.

Women (of all races) are more than 50% of the population, so the fact that there has never been a woman President is statistically far less likely than the fact that a black man (5%) has never been President.

[9119495]

8. In actuality, people of color (men and women) could not

reliably vote in significant numbers until after the Voting Rights and Civil Rights Acts were passed in the 1960s. Reconstruction was a hiccup for minority voting as their rights were taken away by 1877.

[gaspee]

23. wrong

In PARTS of the country, the black vote was held back.

This meme is everywhere and it is wrong - not all states had Jim Crow laws and not all states suppressed the black vote.

However, in NO state could women vote in Federal elections.

[9119495]

28. Well, let me give you a few examples

of non-Jim Crow policies that restricted the vote...

In many northern states poll taxes were widely used that prohibited the poor from voting.

In urban areas with larger black populations, blacks were encouraged to vote if their block of votes would benefit the ruling political machine, but were often prevented from exercising the franchise by intimidation if it did not.

In some states, a person of color had to post a bond before they could take up official legal residence in a town...often in the amount of $500 dollars (about the equivalent of $10,000 in today's dollars). People of color often settled in towns anyway, but they could not benefit from city services or vote.

I did like a whole paper on this topic for my MA coursework.

And as for women, they could vote in state elections before federal ones and while that certainly was a restriction, once women could vote in federal elections, they did not face additional de facto restrictions. A look at the electorate in, say the 1924 election, broken down demographically would probably make this much clearer.

Let us agree that the many blacks not allowed to vote before the 1960s is as much a travesty as the entirety of women being prohibited from voting in federal elections prior to 1920. Nothing less, nothing more.

[John Q. Citizen]

71. Montana elected the first woman to the US House, and that was prior to the

passage of the 19th amendment.

[mondo joe]

32. One flaw in your theory:

Your proposition assumes that voters would seek their own demographic representation in a candidate. While I don't think that's wholly untrue, it's not reliable either. People vote for reasons other than only demographic similarity.

That said, I do mostly agree with your conclusion.

[pnwmom]

50. No, I'm not assuming that people would vote for their own demographic.

I'm saying that in a gender-neutral society, we'd have had closer to 50% women Presidents, not zero.

[John Q. Citizen]

75. Can you name any gender nuetral societies?

In a class nuetral society, we would have poor people elected almost exclusively. I can't mame any class nuetral societies.

In a race nuetral society, about 13% of our presidents would be black. I can't name any race nuetral societies either.

I'm not voting in the primary for Hill, Obama or Edwards, but it's not because I'm opposed to a white woman, a black man, or a white man as president.

I'm voting my own interests, which are peace, single payer health insurance, limited executive power, and people over corporations.

In 2000 I voted for a woman for vice president. Don't worry it was a stratigic vote, Gore wasn't going to get my states 3 electorial votes no matter how I voted. Wasn't even close to being close.

[pnwmom]

82. No, I can't. Men are the dominant gender in the vast majority of societies.

That doesn't make it right.

[mondo joe]

76. Understood. My error - thanks for explaining.

:-)

[La Lioness Priyanka]

6. studies have proven that atleast among higher executive/professional type jobs

white women are more discriminated against than black men

the one study i remember was done w. docs

[John Q. Citizen]

21. How many white women senators are there? How many black men Senators?

How many white women governors? How many Black men governors?

How many white women mayors? How many black men mayors?

How many white women House members? How many black male House members?

The answers seem to be there are a heck of a lot more white women in those roles than black men.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

25. i think its a question of rising to the level in the first place.

white women have less problems getting educations (assuming they come from middle class backgrounds) and getting jobs.

black men have more trouble with this (higher poverty in black communities, poor education etc)


but when pitted against each other, the prejudice is different.

[NOLALady]

42. I assumed the comparison was apples to apples as

middle class, educated white women vs middle class educated black men.

IMHO, white women have made more inroads and have better opportunities, than similarly classed and educated black men.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

46. it is apples to apples after a certain point. most blacks are raised poor

so there are fewer of them in these positions in the first place.

whereas women come from all socioeconomic family backgrounds and count for 50% of the population.

[fortyfeetunder]

64. Where did you get this idea most blacks are raised poor?

I offer you the Census figures, the best I can provide...

http://www.census.gov/Press-Release/www/releases/archives/income_wealth/010583.html

For Hispanics, 20.6 percent were in poverty in 2006, down from 21.8 percent in 2005. Poverty rates remained statistically unchanged for non-Hispanic whites (8.2 percent), blacks (24.3 percent) and Asians (10.3 percent) in 2006.

24.3 percent is not most blacks.....

If you were saying that poverty was one factor that kept some Blacks from advancing, I'd say that was a more accurate statement.

edit for clarification

[La Lioness Priyanka]

88. i meant to say disproportionately poor

[spooky3]

38. how many women are there in the population, vs. how many blacks?

51% vs. less than 13%.

Simple counts do not appropriately document underrepresentation.

[John Q. Citizen]

48. The OP wasn't about if representation should be apportioned based on

skin pigment or sex, the OP was about if it would be more difficult for a white women woman or a black man to win the presidency.

There are curently 16 Women in the Senate

There is currently one black man in the Senate.

Historically there have been 2 black governors since reconstruction. Contrast that with the 28 women (in 21 states) who have been governors since 1925.

[pnwmom]

54. But the fact that women, who are half the population, have never

occupied the White House, shows how difficult it has been.

In every state women are more than half of the population, so it isn't surprising that there have been women Governors. What that shows is that even executive experience hasn't been enough to get women through the last glass ceiling.

[pnwmom]

53. Of course there are a "heck of a lot" more white women than black men

in those jobs. In the general population, white women are a much larger fraction of the population than black men (about 5%).

[Rockholm]

65. You are right on this.

[cali]

7. We're in uncharted territory

but I think a woman might have some unique obstacles People have a hard time simply adjusting to a woman's voice and imagining that voice as "presidential". They have a hard time envisioning a woman as CiC In a way, a woman would be a more drastic change than a black man.

[blindpig]

9. With corporate backing anything is possible. n/t

[blondeatlast]

10. I don't think this is a competition; it's more difficult for either of them

and I'm supporting Edwards, but I see it everywhere.

The veiled racism and sexism is all over DU already.

[mikelgb]

12. only time will tell

[Tesha]

13. Right now, it may well be impossible. But this fall...

Right now, it may well be impossible. But this fall, in the
latest "most important election evah!", we're going to run
a full-scale experiment to test one half or the other of
your thesis question.

BTW, I'd *LOVE* to be proven wrong and shown that it *IS*
possible to elect a black or a woman president, but I'll
bet I'm not wrong.

Tesha

[Kucinich4America]

14. It would seem that the most difficult of all

Is for an honest Democrat who actually gives a shit about the American people to be elected. :evilfrown:

[stillcool]

15. I have to believe...

that the sentiment regarding race and gender expressed here, has no resemblance at all, to the attitudes of the population at large. There seem to be a large percentage of posts that use the same syntax to push the ugliest traits in our society. The funny thing is the more denigration that goes on, the more committed I am to pursuing through any method possible, the defeat of any reward to this kind of gutter mentality.

[Bandit]

17. My wife is convinced America will accept a black man before a woman

Blacks got the vote decades before women and the majority religion tells us women are to be submissive...Hell there are actually people that believe the vote should be taken away from women, Ann Coulter being one of those..America is such a violent nation that it is not reasonable to expect Americans to elect a woman as President..

[La Lioness Priyanka]

30. she is right. its harder for a black person to make it to such a high level position

but when pitted against a woman, people trust men more.

[pnwmom]

55. I agree. Not all people, but far too many. n/t

[John Q. Citizen]

18. It's obvious. How many black Senators are there? How many in the House?

Then look at how many Women Senators there are . How many women in the house?

This isn't even close, by the way.

[pnwmom]

57. So what? Black people are a much smaller fraction of the population than women.

[John Q. Citizen]

69. Exactly so it's harder for a black man than a white woman to become president.

The OP is solved!

[pnwmom]

81. It's statistically less likely, but that doesn't make it proportionately harder. n/t

[madinmaryland]

19. Given that Diebold and the repubs control the election, I don't think

it really matters who the Dem's nominate.

[alarimer]

20. I believe we will elect a black man or man of any race other than white

before we will elect a woman of any race. It won't necessarily be Obama and we might even have to wait a few years but I believe that sexism is so much more overt in this country than racism. Judging at least from the treatment Clinton has received even on this site and from other women. I could be wrong because it is entirely possible that people will SAY they will vote for Obama in public, because it is the "PC" thing to do and then not actually vote for him. But a lot of the animosity (But but no means all of it) towards Clinton, has a definite ring of sexism.

It's not just Clinton though. It's attitudes in general towards women in this country. The double standard is alive and well. I blame the media in large part for that. As long as you are "hot" you are okay but the minute you lose that hotness (or never really had it- like most of us) you are a loser. You can lose your job due to it (but that is not exclusively a sexist thing- it happens to almost anyone once they reach 40 or more).

[pnwmom]

83. I think so, too, unless the contest is between a white woman

and a gay man of any race.

I suspect the woman would win in that case -- but maybe not, if the gay man was a Republican!

[MethuenProgressive]

22. A female.

She's a second class citizen no matter what her race.

[Echo In Light]

24. I'd have to agree w/your sentiment. Old stereotypes and preferences die hard

[Annces]

26. I tend to think that

men will bond to keep men in power. Women are not used to doing this. We never had girl teams in grade school, but were the cheerleaders for the guys. That stuff is still going on.

[Qanisqineq]

27. more difficult for a woman

definitely.

[Iggo]

29. A black woman...(n/t)

[lukasahero]

79. Ding ding ding we have a winner

As sad a statement as it is, while black men and white women (I being a white woman) fight over who has the best oppression claim, let's get real and admit that black women are just screwed no matter where they turn.

[ismnotwasm]

31. According to a friend of mine

(After I said America is too racist to elect a black man) She felt we'd elect a a light skinned black man over a women.

I'm wasn't sure I entirely agreed, but it gave me food for thought. Is the shade of blackness a factor? I hate to say it, but I think it is.

[mondo joe]

33. Prior to this year I would have said a black man. But the double standards applied to Clinton,

and the irrational biases, have convinced me that it's harder for a woman.

[Neshanic]

34. No, it's people with a complete lack of vision and being corporate paramours that have a problem.

Such as the case of our two front runners for example.

[Raine]

35. ANY man has a better chance than

a woman of being president. It will be a fight for either of them but I believe a black man has a better chance than a woman. I know there are more women holding positions like Senator, mayor congress etc but we're talking about the top job here. How many female news anchors are there...one. Katie Couric, and what a stink there still is regarding her.

[slackmaster]

36. 42

:nuke:

[hiphopnation]

52. ...

:spray:

:rofl:

[TahitiNut]

37. If the black male candidate loses, can it ever NOT be about racism??

If the white female candidate loses, can it ever NOT be about sexism?? Ever?

:eyes: :eyes: :eyes:

[pnwmom]

59. It's never about racism

when the candidates are both the same race. It's not about sexism when they're both the same gender.

[spooky3]

39. how many overtly sexist comments have been made about

Clinton this year, vs. how many overly racist comments have been made about Obama?

[pnwmom]

60. Yeah, and especially among Democrats. n/t

[David Zephyr]

40. It won't be easy for either and those who continue with their mischief here are hurting both.

Kentuck, I can't answer your question because I think it will be hard for both Obama and Hillary.

However, there are a few (not many) over zealous supporters of both sides that are making outrageous claims about the one they oppose which will come back to hurt both Hillary and Obama.

[HCE SuiGeneris]

41. A short elf!

[Dems Will Win]

43. In history, black men got the vote 75 years before women did

So I would say its harder for a woman to be elected President, especially with a war and terror going on. There's nore prejudice against gender than against color.

[LibDemAlways]

44. This fall we will find out if one or the other can be

elected President. Given what the repukes did to white guy Kerry last time around, I shudder to think what's in store for Obama or Hillary. Just when you think they've sunk as low as they can possibly go, they sink lower.

[Virginia Dare]

56. I agree, this will be uglier than anything we've seen yet...n/t

[NOLALady]

45. We had a Governors race between a woman and

a non white male.

Some believed the Southern whites would vote for any male even if non white, rather than a woman.

They also believed the non white population would prefer a non white, rather than a white woman.

They were wrong on both counts. You never know.

Let's just hope the populace is fed up enough to get the knuckledraggers out of office.

[pnwmom]

61. And the non-white male won. n/t

[NOLALady]

90. Actually the white female won.

The citizens (Black and White)had more faith in the "local" white female, than the "outsider" non white male.
He was groomed in DC and evidently they thought he could win handily.

[pnwmom]

92. Then I'm thinking of the wrong race.

The race with the Indian-American. Was that in another state? (You know, all those southern states look alike.)

:sarcasm:

[NOLALady]

93. In the 2003 face off, we succeeded in electing our

Democrat Cajun lady for Governor. The Republican Indian American lost.

She refused to run against him in the last election which he won.

[hedda_foil]

47. This is all suppositional nonsense as we're in completely uncharted territory.

Trying to predict this based on race and gender ONLY is unfair to BOTH candidates as well as to all African Americans and all women. If we care about a Dem actually winning in November, we have to do everything possible to avoid pitting parts of the base against each other and hope the candidates avoid this kind of alienating crap too.

[Redstone]

49. Now, THAT's a helluva good question. I can't decide, but will follow the replies

in this thread, because it really is a good question.

Too bad it's not a poll; I'd like to see a tabulation of the opinions.

Redstone

[hiphopnation]

51. yes n/t

[Virginia Dare]

58. According to the repukes in Virginia..

they'd rather face Hillary than Obama. That's what they're saying publicly anyway. Take it for what it's worth.

[VotesForWomen]

62. historically, black males have made it to the highest levels of gov't before women. nt

[fortyfeetunder]

63. I think it will be equally as difficult

To me it boils down to a trust issue.

Considering the American corporate structure and societial mores is based primarily by WASP men, there is little trust for anyone outside this ethnic group.

The facts show there are few minorities and women in the executive structures of academia, government, and private industry. When some (unthinking) American masses see this, then there is a doubt and probably distrust of those who are not WASP males of their ability to get into the executive ranks -- and stay there.

So why should this attitude among this population be any different with the highest office in the land?

The key is we have to break this paradigm and 2008 offers this opportunity.

[Blue_In_AK]

66. This year I would say

that maybe it's more difficult for a white male Democrat.

[SmokingJacket]

67. Toss up.

The racists out there are REALLY racist. On the other hand, there are more sexists, imho, but they're not as rabid.

That said, I think it's possible for either of them to win. We're ready.

[WinkyDink]

68. Moreso: White woman. Any woman.

[RadiationTherapy]

70. We have no examples to go by in America. n/t

[FrenchieCat]

72. One group is larger in numbers....and has a certain majority....

the other, small in number, many caught up in the justice system.

You decide.

[Rosemary2205]

73. THE SHORT MAN ---- he's got it the roughest.

Nobody respects a short man. Damn shame too.

[Saphire]

74. Guess this is the test....we'll see.

[ithinkmyliverhurts]

77. A black woman.

[Zorra]

78. Depends a lot on the black man and how dark his skin is. n/t

[kentuck]

80. Now, that we've determined that it will be very difficult....

How many think a black man or white woman will win the next election???

[debbierlus]

84. I know this much: It is damn near impossible for a POOR person to break in

[Skittles]

85. ANY WOMAN

f***ing OBVIOUS

[spin]

86. It depends on the man or the woman not the candidate's race.

I firmly believe a woman could become President. I also believe it's possible that Hillary might make a great President. My problem with her is that I can't really tell who she is. Is she an ice queen or is she really human? I feel she's computer programed, an android, if you will.

Obama seems much more honest and real. He is intelligent and articulate and has a sense of humor. He seems to have a vision of the future that might make this nation a better place for my grandchildren to grow up in. Of course, he faces the racism problem. Many white voters will reject him for the color of his skin and many black voters will refuse to support him because he's "not black enough". I find this feeling in the black community strange as they claim Bill Clinton was the first black president.

To answer the original question: I feel the right white woman would have an easier road than an equally qualified and appealing black woman or a black man. A black male candidate has to overcome the racism in the white sector and the resentment in the black sector. A black female candidate has to triumph over racism, resentment and the feeling among men that women are inferior. The white woman only faces the inferior status problem that is promoted mainly by religion.

In a perfect world race and gender would be irrelevant. Unfortunately, the world we live in isn't perfect.

[FrenchieCat]

87. Becoming President is alway difficult, every four years,....

just ask Al Gore and John Kerry.

and then watch!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AmUUYo9o9eg&feature=PlayList&p=B03F10C0072F4762&index=3

[defendandprotect]

89. I'm going to say easier for black man --- cause this is still a patriarchy . . .

black men also got the vote first --- black females were still barred!!!

[MiniMe]

91. Which came first? A black man or a wnite woman supreme court justice?

That might give you your answer.

edited to add:
Yes, I know the answer to this question.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

94. Tough Question, But I'd Have To Go With Race Above Gender.

The reason I say that is merely due to objective reasoning of what I've heard personally from people so far during this campaign season. To put it simply, I've heard quite a few times already (in relation to if Obama was elected) that he'd be assassinated etc (merely based on his race). I have yet to hear that in relation to Hillary.

I think that women have challenges as well overcoming the status quo of 'white rich dude', but I still can't help thinking that in the end of it all, there are far too many people in this country who are just still flat out racist.

[JerseygirlCT]

95. Well, black men had the vote long before women did.

The civil rights movement (as it pertains to African Americans) happened before the women's rights movement.

I think sexism is one of the last socially acceptable bigotries. (Along with homophobia).

This is not to say that we've conquered racism, however.