So when did we become the anti-science crowd?

[originalpckelly]

I guess five years of trials and tests of a vaccine is not enough for you. What is? How many years does something have to be tested before it can be used?

The HPV vaccine is a major breakthrough in science and it could end up saving the lives of thousands of Americans.

Christian extremists believe the vaccine will make people want to have more sex, but is anyone really not having sex because of HPV?

Now we have our own nuts talking about the dangers of "big pharma". Why the HPV vaccine?

Why not the chickenpox vaccine developed a few years ago?

You people are fucking nuts.

You talk about the few people who *might* have had a reaction to this vaccine, but what about the thousands of woman who get cervical cancer every year? Unless the number of people dying from the vaccine is anywhere near that of those dying of cervical cancer, these "concerns" are a bunch of bullshit.

[treestar]

1. That was shortly after we became the "blame-America-first" crowd

Wasn't the issue over whether it was mandatory? The disease isn't communicable, isn't it? It seems like it should be elected. Then each person can make their own decision.

[alcibiades_mystery]

15. Yes, the disease is well and truly communicable

That's the fucking point.

[treestar]

20. How can it be communicable?

Do men pass it from woman to woman?

The RW is going to have a great time with that.

[Arugula Latte]

25. Women who contract HPV are much more likely to get cervical cancer. nt

[Caoimhe]

26. Yes

Men can be carriers and spread it with their "love". I know a woman who married a widower. Both were in their 40s. His ex wife had died of cervical cancer. Guess what? He passed HPV to my friend, unknowingly. HPV doesn't discriminate. And yes, even in men it can cause penile and rectal cancer. No fun.

[originalpckelly]

18. There are many different types of vaccine all around the country...

that have been mandated to eliminate diseases.

[Ian David]

2. People who have been the victims of real conspiracies tend to believe fake conspiracy theories...

more readily.

It's part of human nature.

Nobody wants to fall under the "shame on me" clause of "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me."

People here justifiably realize they have been burned before. And to some of them, everything looks like a match now.

[Kagemusha]

4. Yes that's a big part of it.

And fundamental distrust of pharma corps. Which I understand.

But when organization after organization stands by the testing, I have to wonder what the problem is.

[mike_c]

3. agreed 100 percent....

And as far as the sex angle goes, people worried about other people having sex have got too much time on their hands. It would be far better to spend that effort educating folks about how to protect themselves from the possible consequences.

[jilln]

5. people who got laser eye surgery years ago

are suffering effects from it now.

I don't know much about the vaccine and will not comment specifically on that, but science has made it abundantly clear that some side effects don't show up for years and sometimes decades. If someone doesn't want to get the vaccine because of that, it's their right.


If things that had been tested always worked out perfectly, there would be no drug lawsuits, would there?


Good luck winning people to your side by calling them nuts.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

6. There's always people nutty over vaccines.

I think it mostly is about a hang up over needles. People are afraid of needles.

Plus there's a lot of sexual hang ups with this one. People don't want to think that young girls might some day have sex.

[Deep13]

7. Indoor plumbing is against God!

'Nuff of this heathen book learnin'. Just saying is all. :evilgrin:

[Marnieworld]

8. hesitant to reply

This subject was quite the flame-fest recently.

Yet, I think what was behind a lot of concern was the concept of the gov't MANDATING the vaccine. They had a problem with it being forced from a privacy civil liberties standpoint. Considering that we all know of many drugs tested and considered safe and then being pulled for effects.Though we like Science we are aware that it is not perfect, or at least the system in place isn't so this also is relevant since anything is a risk. If the gov't is mandating a health risk that a powerful company (contributor) profits from, it's possible to be weary or even outraged without hating science or being paranoid.

Me, I'm pro-vaccine, I think gov't should make it easily accessible, encouraged even, but not mandated.

[originalpckelly]

10. In Colorado you must have vaccinations for your children before you can send them to public school.

Why is this vaccine any different any other vaccine?

[bleedingheart]

9. The funny thing is that I bet more men have died from "boner" meds

than kids harmed from vaccines but I don't see any outrage over that.

In fact, there are always new boner meds on the market based on the commercials I see.

I am pro-vaccine, however I also think all drugs should receive the proper scrutiny and that sometimes we learn more after the release of a medication (good and bad) but to rail against vaccines...I just don't get it.

[catnhatnh]

11. I must respectfully disagree....

...as I feel you confuse the message (the merger of government and corporate goals is a step towards Fascism) and the messenger (a group who most likely voluntarily opt for this vaccine for their children but who distrust the administration). The concerns (or "concerns") are of a political, not anti-science nature....

[Bridget Burke]

12. There's not really an anti-science "crowd"....

Some posters have expressed wishes to wait before having their daughters vaccinated. I can understand that.

There is a small group against vaccination in general. Science isn't their strong point, but they aren't new.

And there are few very loud people who seem more interested in disruption than women's health. Or science. Or anything but posting & reposting the same spam over & over again.

[Stuckinthebush]

13. It is mind boggling

I was amazed at the level of anger about this vaccine here.

As a scientist, I'm convinced by the studies I've seen and by the vast number of scientists who say that it is safe.

I think you have people who are scared of medications in general, you have people who distrust pharms, you have people who don't like a GOP governor and feel they must disagree with him, you have natural remedy folk, and you have people who are tin foil hat types.

I do like to hear the rational discussions about the research, but the level of anger about this one vaccine is off-putting.

My daughters will receive the vaccine.

[originalpckelly]

16. One has to wonder how many women will die in future years...

as a result of not getting the vaccine. I'm willing to bet that it'll be much higher than the number of those having complications as a result of the vaccine.

[Stuckinthebush]

Of course

and it is very sad.

[alcibiades_mystery]

14. Absolutely agreed

Sometimes, the lunacy of the left is as bad as the lunacy of the right. And i am FAR left. I am not a moderate. I am a leftist. period.

But the nuts on the Left that pop up on these boards are so all-over-the-map as to be utterly laughable. Every fucking lunatic notion you can imagine pops up. It's pathetic, really.

[Warpy]

17. Kind of a broad brush there, buster

The objections are several:

First, there are antivaccination nuts at DU. They are vocal, but they are few. Their objections run from the debunked thimerosol theory through a concern that kids will die if their immune systems aren't built up by those childhood diseases. (more will die if they get those diseases, but who's counting?)

Second, there are the conspiracy theorists at DU. There's a grain of truth in some of their concerns about the FDA being in bed with Big Pill, especially since the most corrupt government in history has taken control. However, as you stated, this has had 5 years of testing to assure effectiveness and the fact that girls who get it won't drop dead.

Third, there's the contrarian crowd who simply don't like anyone telling them what to do with THEIR children. Oh, they'll probably get their girls immunized, but they sure as hell don't want anyone to tell them they have to do it.

Fourth, there's a very small crowd here who cringe at any mention of sex and disease coming anywhere near their sweet, virginal daughters. Sadly, they may not get their daughters immunized in time due to an "ick" factor.

Most of us at DU fall into none of these groups. Please realize that and adjust the size of your brush accordingly.

[originalpckelly]

19. Yeah, I'm sorry, not everyone here is acting like a fool about this matter...

I should be more precise.

[Marrah_G]

21. All drugs have side effects that may affect a few people

I had a SEVERE reaction to Cipro, a drug used for bacterial infrections and to treat anthrax. The drug works for alot of people and saves alot of lives. For me? It left me unable to use my arms and legs, left me with insomnia and anxiety attacks, and caused short term memory issues (I have recovered from almost all of it now). Just because it messed me up doesn't mean it should be taken out of use for everyone else.

[genie_weenie]

22. I wonder if the hue and cry was this loud

when all the DoD members were subjected to Anthrax Vaccines. Actually I don't because I know that, unless the DUer had a relative in the service, America couldn't give a shit. UNTIL the government comes knocking on your own door with a Ultimatum for Vaccination.

[Horse with no Name]

23. I've been wondering that myself....

Nice post.

[Caoimhe]

24. I understand your anger

I've been following the Gardisil threads for weeks now and I am pretty shocked by some of the reasoning (or lack of it) displayed by folks on DU.

I must however take you to task for the way you phrased your OP. "you people" isn't a valid way to start a dialogue. We aren't a monolithic crowd here.

I think parents who refuse to get their children vaccinated are playing unnecessary games with their child's health, but you can't tell them that. I remember as a child our water system wasn't flouridated and so we would have flouride rinses where we'd get a dixie cup of flouride solution to swish and spit. There were some parents that had tantrums about it, and their kids got out of the rinse. Flouride rinses, vaccinations and head lice checks were just part of going to public school.

This vaccine is like any other and should not be allowed to have this black cloud of "sex, promiscuity, sin" draped over it, nor should it be treated any differently than a polio vaccine. Thank god for scientific advances. Let's hope that cervical as well as other cancers are going to be eradicated in our lifetimes, or at least our kids' lifetimes!

[Tsiyu]

27. We aren't any "crowd"

We are a diverse bunch of people having debates about current events.

It might feel gratifying to you to bully people into agreeing with your position by name-calling, but personally, I am glad people are taking the time to debate this issue.

FWIW, I tend toward supporting this vaccine being given FREE to ALL boys and girls, with opt-out available, IF I see enough proof that this vaccine is safe.

I honestly believe that the majority of people here would welcome a safe and effective vaccine. Apprehensions about pharmaceutical companies in no way equates with animosity toward science.

A better question might be: since when did Pharmcos become your sole representation of "Science?"

[Ediacara]

28. Locking

From the DU rules:

Do not post personal attacks or engage in name-calling against other individual members of this discussion board. Even very mild personal attacks are forbidden.
---
Do not post "flame bait" discussion topics. While there is no clear line regarding what constitutes flame bait, the moderators have the authority to shut down threads which they consider too rhetorically hot, too divisive, too extreme, or too inflammatory. Please use good judgment when starting threads; inflammatory rhetoric does not normally lead to productive discussion.

Do not start a new topic in order to continue a flame war from another discussion thread.