Hillary Clinton Defends 2002 Iraq War Vote - And A Great HuffPo Response !!!

[WillyT]

Hillary Clinton Defends 2002 Iraq War Vote On Meet The Press

<snip>

This morning on Meet the Press, Hillary Clinton defended her 2002 vote for the Iraq war resolution, saying that she "thought it was a vote to put inspectors back in" so Saddam Hussein could not go unchecked. She insisted that she and others were "told by the White House personally" that this was the purpose of the resolution, and cited President Bush's assurances to defend her position.

Moderator Tim Russert pointed out that the title of the resolution was the "Authorization for Use of Military Force Against Iraq Resolution of 2002." Clinton responded saying, "We can have this Jesuitical argument about what exactly was meant. But when Chuck Hagel, who helped to draft the resolution said, 'It was not a vote for war,' What I was told directly by the White House in response to my question, 'If you are given this authority, will you put the inspectors in and permit them to finish their job,' I was told that's exactly what we intended to do. "

<snip>

Link: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/01/13/hillary-clinton-defends-2_n_81261.html

HuffPo Reader Response:

"Sounds perfectly rational to me. Authorizing military force is NOT authorizing military force if someone tells you that what your autorizing is not what your authorizing so therefore in fact you didn't authorize something you autorized because you weren't authorizing your authorization. Why is that so DAM* hard to understand?"

:rofl:

:shrug:

[L0oniX]

1. Ah the voice of 35 years of experience and now ...change.

Yea right ...as in change the meaning of "authorization". That's fucking lawyer speak if I ever heard it.

[fenriswolf]

2. c'mon if hillary is this strong intelligent women that

she claims to be with the "decades" of experiance and contacts then she should be

a. smart enough to know what verbage in a bill means

b. to check her facts and actually read what she signs

c. have some of her smart advisors, friends, political buddies to give her insight

the fact that she is shrugging her shoulders, giving us the doe eyes going "those mean ol' men told me that this was a good bill, how could I have known they would have used this bill for military action" is IMHO kind of degridating to the american people

[peacetalksforall]

5. Her answer has the same kind of ring as the answer Condaleeza Rice gave in the hearing about

9-11.

The point is to 'remember-back' - If you were on DU or some other forums in 2002, you will know that mere citizens - mere forum contributors KNEW what was going on and what was going to happen. Her reply is evasive and leaning on deceitful.

My personal guess and the one of the reasons I despise the DLC, is that I believe the DLC led a decision to get elected officials to support Cheney - to protect votes - to make it sound as though we were united in protecting the country. They made a decision NOT to stick out and have to defend a NO vote. Others believe the war corporations and lobbyists acted on each elected official individually. But, I can almost picture the Senators meetings and contacts to coordinate a position and a promise to each other. I believe she and Shirmer led it. Just my gut feeling.

[hfojvt]

30. nobody could have anticipated that Bush would actually goto war

and goto war for no reason.

Of course, even I naively believed that Saddam would have to provoke Bush. I was fairly certain that Saddam WOULD provoke Bush. So I underestimated that Bush would goto war even without provocation. Plus I was hoping that the security council would refuse authorization too, like they did with the second vote. Of course, Bush, through Negroponte lied to the Security Council. He claimed that the first security council resolution did NOT authorize war, that a war would require a second resolution.

Yet, Democrats still should not have voted for that resolution and too many like Clinton and Kerry have been trying to defend their vote more than they have been criticizing Bush.

edit: Of course, after the IWR CBS news started their broadcasts with a "Countdown to War" segment.

[spin]

7. Intelligent experienced people make mistakes

and they own up to them.

[fenriswolf]

14. right they own up to them

first she was defending now she is making excuses. She is not saying "I was wrong" she is not stating that she will correct her mistakes.

[Blarch]

20. Ya..

when does she 'own up'?

[ihavenobias]

27. I agree but

I'm much more concerned with what she did *after* that initial vote. Even her not apologizing isn't *that* important compared to her inaction (and or the wrong kind of action) since then:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=103x331580

[rodeodance]

3. I have come to think as Huff Post as a anti-Clinton site.

[Captain Hilts]

4. It's one of the top anti-Clinton sites. I'm still undecided, but not about giving up Huff Post. nt

[soundguy]

6. Agreed

Huff is crazy about Huff. She is one of the most egocentric " media whores" on the net. I think all of the Clinton hate is actually beginning to work against her and those like her, and all one has to do is look to N.H. to see the outcome. So keep it up. It just gives HRC supporters like myself more passion, more resolve, and in the end, they are and will continue to become more and more irrelevant. Let your hate flow and complete your transformation to the dark side.

[leftchick]

8. if she is that stupid and gullible she has no business being POTUS

The sad fact is she is not stupid and gullible, she is politically shrewd and complicit in bushco** wars. Period. If you want more neocon foreign policy vote for her! Change smange.

[shireen]

9. did she actually read the legislation?

or did she rely on the Cliff notes version from the WH?

I didn't read the legislation and will never know for sure what the WH told Hillary. But the title of the legislation is pretty damning. Even an idiot like me would have been suspicious of it. She and Edwards really screwed up in voting for that sick legislation. Edwards has redeemed himself, somewhat, by apologizing for it -- he sounds like a man who learns from his mistakes and isn't afraid to admit when he's wrong. I like that. But I've not seen evidence of Hillary willing to do the same and that troubles me.

Please don't interpret this as "hate" for Hillary. I'm just stating an observation, and would love to be proved wrong because, otherwise, I like and admire Hillary. But if the primary were held today, Edwards would get my vote.

[Arugula Latte]

10. What B.S. We all knew Bush would try to go in to Iraq no matter what.

We knew it had nothing to do with our "security."

She knew it too, I'd wager, but chose her own political expediency over human life.

I'm not saying that her voting against IWR would have stopped the war, but it would have been an important position for her to stake out.

Instead, she caved.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

11. The "Duh, I didn't know..." defense makes a nifty campaign slogan.

She was "misled". Misled into believing that showing her alleged "toughness" when revenge was popular was going to win her the White House.

[leftchick]

13. not much better than....

"if I knew then what I know now".

[BlackVelvet04]

12. If I remember correctly....

this is pretty much the same justification used by John Kerry and his supporters during the General Election and pretty much everyone here supported that.

[leftchick]

15. Oct. 10, 2002... Her War, oops I mean Floor Speech.....

It was a Resolution for THE USE OF FORCE! Wtf does she not understand?



Hillary Clinton Floor Speech IWR Use of Force Vote
October 10, 2002

While there is no perfect approach to this thorny dilemma, and while people of good faith and high intelligence can reach diametrically opposed conclusions, I believe the best course is to go to the UN for a strong resolution that scraps the 1998 restrictions on inspections and calls for complete, unlimited inspections with cooperation expected and demanded from Iraq.

Even though the resolution before the Senate is not as strong as I would like in requiring the diplomatic route first and placing highest priority on a simple, clear requirement for unlimited inspections, I will take the President at his word that he will try hard to pass a UN resolution and will seek to avoid war, if at all possible.

If we get the resolution and Saddam does not comply, then we can attack him with far more support and legitimacy than we would have otherwise.

http://clinton.senate.gov/speeches/iraq_101002.html

[rateyes]

17. Hillary: "I will take the President at his word..."

That was her first mistake. Her vote was the second.

[Individualist]

28. That was no mistake

The Chimperor's character, as well as the value of "his word", were well known before he was selected. She understood exactly what she was doing in both instances.

[rateyes]

29. Yeah. I was trying to be a little magnanimous.

:D

[Pastiche423]

41. Thank you for the link!

I was about to go searching for it, but you saved me the time.

[leftchick]

42. you are very welcome

notice how no clintonistas come out to defend her words/deeds in this regard? It is indefensible.

:hi:

[Pastiche423]

43. Maybe not on this thread

but they have on other threads (defended her vote).

On October 10, 2002 (and into the wee hours of October 11) I listened to all of the speeches. It was at that time that I wondered that if I, a lowly peon, knew it was all bs, then why din't they?

Any of the lawmakers that voted AYE for *'s war, lost my vote forever. Also, in the weeks leading up to the vote, I got my night owl self out of bed at the crack of dawn to read the Senate Watch threads that khephra started.

If any of the senators had taken the time to listen to the wise words of Senator Robert C. Byrd, then Shock and awe would not have happened.

[rateyes]

16. This line infuriates me:

"She insisted that she and others were "told by the White House personally" that this was the purpose of the resolution..."


And she believed him? Why the hell would she trust George Bush to tell her the truth? WTF? That's the biggest fairy tale I've ever heard. :shrug:

[leftchick]

18. I agree

so she had to ask him if a USE of FORCE meant NOT USING FORCE? She has pretzel logic.

[leftofthedial]

19. she's either a liar or far too stupid and gullible to be president of anything

[Blarch]

21. well...

she isn't stupid, so where does that leave us ?

[rateyes]

22. K & R #4

[TwilightGardener]

23. WTF with the "Chuck Hagel did it too" defense? Big Dawg also used it, with his

"Fairy Tale" slam on Obama. They have that coordinated, obviously. Nice that they hold my Senator in such high regard that they use him for their own defense, but she really needs to take responsibility for her own actions and not point to a Republican as an excuse.

[rateyes]

24. That makes Chuck Hagel stupid, too. nt

[TwilightGardener]

25. He wasn't stupid--that's the sad part. Read his floor speech before

the IWR vote--it sounded like he was about to vote against it--it was really a great speech, and very prescient. But, he was a Republican from Nebraska campaigning for re-election, so I'm positive he voted for it for political survival. He says he regrets it now, but I'll bet he regretted it even as he voted for it, that he didn't have the balls to go against his President and risk losing his Senate seat. Very disappointing--he knew better. So did Biden, as well.

[Inuca]

35. I read the speech

I am not sure that political expediency was the only reason he ended up voting for it, it does not seem to be consistent with the content of the speech itself. I sense a deeper personal conflict... nevermind, Sunday afternoon virtual remote psycho therapy, Hagel should send me a check :-).

[TwilightGardener]

40. He was on the Intelligence Committee, he read the reports, he

supported Biden-Lugar, he rewrote the IWR with Biden so that Bush didn't have the leeway that he requested to attack any other country besides Iraq in the Middle East--I think he knew that ChimpCo was up to no good and would use the IWR as a ticket to invade no matter what, but decided to give him the green light anyway. Sure, he was conflicted, but he came down on the wrong side. He would have been toast, politically, if he came out against the war while he was up for re-election, and he knew it, so he tried to hamper Chimpy's plan without outright opposing it. He tried to straddle it, just like Hillary's trying to straddle it now: "The IWR was intended to give the inspectors and diplomacy more time first before using military force, but Bush betrayed me." They're both politicians, and made an ultimately political decision. So did many others in the Senate--a lot of them let us down.

[Inuca]

33. I noticed that too in the interview this morning

Weird how she/they seem to hide behind Hagel's back. There must be a reason for that, but I have no idea what. It's not like Hagel was the only senator to express very serious doubts about the resolution and then end up voting for it anyway. The only republican, but why that's relevant to the point they are trying to make, I am not sure (safer than to use say Kerry or Biden as examples?)...

[Hydra]

26. HRC helped sway some of the Dems who weren't sure where they stood on this issue

By supporting Bushco.

Even if she were not running for president, that is a HUGE breech of trust with the people who supported her.

She most certainly should be held up for scrutiny, as should Obama and Edwards since they are likely to be the pool of who we pick from.

[Yael]

31. Thats classic

:D

[warren pease]

32. Fooled by George W. Bush??

How stupid and gullible do you have to be to be conned by the stupidest man ever to occupy the Oval Office?

How many millions of people weren't fooled by this imbecile and marched in the streets all over the world to protest the inevitable?

And poor Hillary was so overwhelmed by the force of Bushie's character and logic that she fell under his spell and didn't really believe that voting for war means voting for war? Spare me.


wp

[moodforaday]

34. k&r, nt

[Rex]

36. The thing does say 'military force', not 'let the inspectors back in'.

Ugh, Chuck Hagel - slime in the ice bucket.

[SeattleGirl]

37. Bwahahahaha! That response is priceless!

:rofl:

[Omega3]

39. She sounds like Bush

never makes a mistake nor admits it!

[Buns_of_Fire]

38. "You screwed up. You trusted us." -- from Animal House

"I screwed up. It was a bad vote, and I'm sorry I made it."

There y'go, Hillary. Fourteen words that would probably put most of this behind you. I haven't heard of Edwards being hit with this every time he makes an appearance. Reason? He admitted it was a bad vote, a mistake, and he regrets it. Case (more-or-less) closed.

The problem now is that Senator Clinton's infallibility is now headed down the same path as her inevitability. And we all now know where that has wound up. "Being a Clinton means never having to say you're sorry"? I don't know that such an attitude is going to play in Peoria.

Own up to it, ma'am. Take what ever lumps the electorate deems necessary, but get it behind you.

[Seabiscuit]

44. Hillary must really think us Dems are thicker than molasses. Thanks a bunch, Hill.