All this discussion about MLK & LBJ has made me realize that

[napi21]

it really IS important to get experience d and yes connected people into the WH. I remember MLK, JFK, & LBJ. As popular as JFK was, he wasn't able to get the legislation through congress that he knew was the right thing to do. Damn near everybody in America cried when Jack was shot. We all missed him, but it really LBJ who knew where all the dirt was, and had the ability to twist enough arms to get the legislation passed that supported what MLK worked so hard to promote.

I have been fighting for change in government too, but I've watched quite a few programs on cspan, The History Channel, PBS etc. recently, and I realize that people have been fighting for change nearly as long as our Country existed. Campaigns have been every bit as nasty as they are now, and sometimes MUCH WORSE! We ALWAYS get change when we elect a President from a different Party, and it is MOST IMPORTANT that we elect a Dem in 08. But the more I read about our political history, the more I realize that the only way to accomplish BIG THINGS, like National Health Care, re-enforcement of our anti trust laws, legal certification of gay rights, etc. is to elect people who HAVE the knowledge and the ability to TWIST ARMS.

That doesn't mean that I'm recommending Obama, Clinton or Edwards specifically, but which ever one gets the nod MUST chose a running mate with the power, strength, and determination to work behind the scenes to accomplish what we're all looking for. As much as I detest Tom Delay and Dick Chaney, they GOT WHAT THEY WANTED! IMO everything they wanted was the WRONG THING, but that's the kind of action we need on the Dem side now.

Remember: NO PRESIDENT CAN DO IT ALONE!

[Sadie4629]

1. Slightly off-topic, but

was JFK really all that popular? I was about 7 when he died, and I knew that I was broken up, but I remember hearing my mother tell someone that there were people who CHEERED when they heard he was dead! Also--his election was extremely close--like Gore/Bush close. I've learned that there may have been some election fraud involved, but that Nixon chose not to pursue it. I'm no expert, but I think most of his popularity is mostly the myth of hindsight.

[hedda_foil]

2. Yes JFK was THAT popular -- which was why some hated him so much.

Kennedy went up against the CIA and the military industrial complex that Eisenhower had warned agaist immediately before Kennedy's inauguration. He had already fired Alan Dulles, who was head of the CIA from the start, had started talks with the Soviet Union to stop the Cold War, and was popular enough that in his second term, he could have taken down the MIC for good. Any wonder that "some" hated him enough to do anything to see him dead?

[Sadie4629]

6. He was doing good things

but if he was THAT popular, why was the election so close? Obviously, he didn't connect with nearly half of the population.

[hedda_foil]

10. He became that popular while he was in office, not during the campaign.

[napi21]

3. well, I was only 20, and not very politically involved, but I recall

Jack was VERY POPULAR with the young people and women. I suspect much of that was due to his youth and good looks. I'm sure there were people who cheered upon his death, but I never met any, and you sure never saw any of that on TV. Yes, there was talk of vote tampering, mostly in Chicago. I don't know if it was true or not, but that's another thing that has gone on ever since we go the "vote". I remember when I was very little (3 or 4) my parents talked about party hacks paying people to vote for THEIR CANDIDATE, and that was going on on the streets in Pgh. Pa. It seems, one way or another, somebody's always going to try to manipulate the election outcome to their advantage.

I guess there are a lot of the not so good things that have been forgotten about Kennedy over the years, but to say his popularity is a myth isn't true either.

[peacetalksforall]

5. He was popular with honest people, no matter what may or may

not have been true about his actions. What he had was difficult to put into words. He had some way of extressing idealism that made you have hope. I read stories about and saw the pictures of poor people all over the world who had pictures of him in their living spaces, including yurts - years after he died. He was injured in WW2, had money but was not uppity, had class and a homey class, was welcomed and admired in any country, but not by some in this country - because he saw too many things wrong internally and tried to change them. Just imo.

Side-note: There is a significant exception: He was despised and is still despised after 44 years by nearly all Cuban-Americans in the U.S. He was blamed for a set-up. Long story.

[Sadie4629]

7. I did some reading about the Bay of Pigs

when I was in college. I wrote a paper in which I came to the conclusion that the US had really let down their Cuban allies. Sad situation. I'm not sure there could have been a good ending to that, regardless of what the US had done.

Yeah, you're right about Jack's charisma. I wonder what today's press would have done to him, though. They actually protected him. Can you imagine the uproar if people knew that he had cheated on the beautiful and elegant Jackie?

[peacetalksforall]

9. I don't think there would have been an uproar. People were different then.

They played things more delicately. More people believed in not casting stones. MOSTLY, there were fewer false reverends stirring up religious-political hate towards a political party on behalf of a political party - the reverends were not part of a political army that conducted character assassinations of political foes while making excuses for their own.

In some things there was more distance established between the personal side of a person and the public side.

This country had a first in the 1990's when massive armies of Republican politicos joined forces with the religious to bring down this family and create an impression that Democrats were immoral and should be saints just like them.

In the early 60's coming out of the 50's - if there was knowledge about an affair - there probably would have never been a political stunt pulled for benefit to a Party - few journalists would have participated, but if the cheating person had spent taxpayer money on her or if she was a spy - they would not have remained silent.

[flashl]

4. Great post. Reminiscent of one of the best titles I’ve seen in a while

You don't bring "Kumbaya" to a gunfight.

This is not necessarily a promotion for the content of the article, but, its title is thought provoking.

[cooolandrew]

8. Obama/the rock. That ticket might do it. =)

[Bucky]

11. Johnson's legislative dominance rode on two wheels: JFK's martyrdom and a 60%+ Democratic Congress

Before too long, any Democratic president is gonna govern by triangulating (which means "bipartisanship where I don't win").

LBJ had tremendous political advantages that no president will enjoy over the next 8 years. It's probably worth mentioning that for all the power he wielded, LBJ was not all that successful on either the domestic or international fronts.

[tritsofme]

12. That's the understatement of the year, his hands are soaked in blood.

The blood of innocent Vietnamese.

The blood of tens of thousands young American GIs that died for no reason at all.

Thinking about LBJ today still makes me sick to my stomach, and it reminds me far too much of today.

[H2O Man]

13. JFK did not

have the opportunity to get the bills through that LBJ did in '64 and '65. It is fair to say that LBJ had two advantages: he had a unique relationship with many in the House and Senate, and the nation was in a different mood after Dallas.

I am one of the DUers who has spoken at length about LBJ's good side. Still, it is important to remember that he has never been considered an original thinker in his role as president. He had the model of FDR for his Great Society (which he at first wanted to call "the Better Deal") and JFK's unfinished business. After those two things, one would have a great deal of difficulty naming any LBJ success.