Okay, Obama supporter here, having serious problems

[smoogatz]

with Obama's invocation of Reagan. It may be brilliant politics on a couple of levels, but I still think I'm going to hurl. Just when you think you can really get behind a candidate...

[Labors of Hercules]

1. I've got a candidate you can really get behind...

[liberal N proud]

9. I will second that motion

[madokie]

32. Yes Sir

A man who is talking to us, not at us, to them, big difference in my book

[mnhtnbb]

45. All in favor? Aye!

[Teaser]

2. How did he "invoke Reagan"

way I read it, he just stated facts: Reagan was a transformative president. That is undeniable. Unfortunate, but undeniable.

[terisan]

18. Reagan was a retro president. He returned us to rich/poor policies of Hoover

He made torture and death squads in South America ok again after Jimmy Carter had made human rights a priority.

He was a con artist riding a wave of voters angry about high gas prices and high mortgage interest who wanted to address these issues and who wanted to feel good about the country after Nixon, and the loss of the Vietnam War.

The only thing Reagan transformed was Democratic voters into Republican voters.

[Jed Dilligan]

39. He also transformed housed people into homeless people,

employed into unemployed, inner cities into wastelands, and America into a prison nation.

[terisan]

40. Well stated. nt

[ZinZen]

47. Obama did not support Reagan's policies

I dare you to find me a link that shows him loving Reagans policies. I double dare you.

[ZinZen]

48. That is how I saw it also

but emotions here are over the top and I can see that even mentioning Reagan's name would cause hackles to be raised. He was a godawful POTUS. But Obama was not praising Reagan's policies he was intellectully talking about political paradigm shifts in US politics, and unfortunately Reagan's win was a big political paradigm shift. Reagan didn't just win a gob of repub votes but many Dems crossed over and voted for him also.

[mckeown1128]

3. Just take it easy. Try not to listen to the spin.

Understand that Obama wasn't approving of Reagan's policies.

[TwilightGardener]

4. Oh for God's sake. If saying positive things about a former President's

political skill (a BELOVED former President, by the way, for many--though not on DU) is enough to turn you off of a candidate, then you were never much of a supporter.

[chimpymustgo]

10. That motherf*cker kicked off his Presidential campaign in Philadelphia Mississippi

Known for only one thing: that's where civil rights workers Goodman, Chaney and Schwerner were MURDERED by the KKK for trying to help register black people to VOTE.

Ronald Reagan was a MONSTER. To invoke any perceived positives - or myths about them - WITHOUT referring to his HEINOUS presidency is sickening. WTF is Obama doing? I'm sickened and saddened by this.

[TwilightGardener]

20. Well, this is where DU loses me. I was never a Reagan fan, never

understood why he was such a big deal, and the fact that he was brain-addled makes me doubly baffled as to why he's held up as a great leader. However, I see him as a mixed bag--not a demon, or a murderer, or whatever other hyperbole the folks on here want to spew. The fact is, he managed to get a nation to follow him and revere him to this day. A Dem candidate who can appreciate and hope to emulate that sort of political talent is a smart one. That's why Obama will win for us in November--he is able to distill what worked politically from past successful politicians of BOTH parties (he mentioned Kennedy in the same breath), and use it himself. He will be the great unifier.

[Occulus]

33. I had a friend who could very well be alive today

if Reagan had addressed the AIDS epidemic sooner than he did. Drugs that could have saved his life, as well as better understanding of the disease, probably would have extended his life until today, had Reagan even mentioned it sooner than he did, much less given AIDS research the funding it needed at the time.

Understand that one of Reagan's "strengths"- I personally don't call this that- was his ability to make people comfortable with their own prejudices. His "handling" of the AIDS crisis is but one example.

[TwilightGardener]

36. I had a close relative die of AIDS. That Reagan did not do enough

to fund research of the disease was but one of his failings. It doesn't change the fact that he was a skilled politician who strongly advanced the conservative movement and managed to bring disaffected Democrats into the movement as well--former Democrats that we are STILL trying to woo back. If Obama can harness that sort of cross-partisan appeal, and do for the Democratic/progressive cause what Reagan did for Repubs, we'll be very fortunate. Doesn't have anything to do with an endorsement of Reagan's specific policies.

[ladjf]

24. You are "on the money". Great post.

[Jamastiene]

12. What flavor is that Kool Aid exactly? n/t

[Midlodemocrat]

13. Jelly Bean flavored. It's Delicious!!!!!

[Jamastiene]

16. Muahahaha

:rofl:

[TwilightGardener]

21. ?

[MNDemNY]

5. He's trying to sew up the "idiot" vote.

[ladjf]

26. While losing the votes of anyone who remembers what a

disaster Reagan was for America.

[MNDemNY]

29. Fond memories of Reagan's introduction of crack to the ghetto?

All to pay for another illegal war? Gobama! Hope for Change!

[rodeodance]

6. Really something isn't it!--Now we have our own Dem. Cand invoking Ronnie--just like Rudy, john

fred. ect ect.

up--joys

[ladjf]

27. That's just what we need, a Reagan emulator. Holy shite! What

was he thinking?

[Pirate Smile]

7. Read this:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=4093973&mesg_id=4093973

[Bake]

8. Reagan's 11th Commandment: Speak No Ill of a Fellow Repub

The Dems need their 11th C: Never speak well of a Repub.

Too many sheep won't get what Obama was saying. Hell, I'm not sure *I* get what he was saying. Most people will think "transformative" is a good thing. If you have to explain the context, you've already lost the war.

It was a stupid move. Obama trying a little too hard to be "bi-partisan" and "cerebral."

Bake

[Jamastiene]

14. It could be said that Bush is a tranformative pResident, but

that's not necessarily a good thing. I'm still trying to get how what Obama has done is any different than what DINO's have been doing for ages. It just makes him one of them and not on our side, IHMO. You know what I mean?

[AndyA]

11. I'm by no means an Obama supporter, but I think too much is being made of this.

The way I read it, Obama wasn't elevating Reagan to God like status, as some seem to think. He was just stating an obvious fact: Reagan transformed the way government worked, opened a lot of doors, and I don't think that's necessarily an endorsement of Reagan.

Reagan did begin the process that has allowed the GOP to do what it has done during the last couple of decades, he was the one who planted the seeds that have now grown into the far right ape shit crazy policies forced upon us by the Republicans.

We just need to swing the pendulum back the other direction even more to undo some of the damage.

I didn't take what Obama said as an indication of his approval of Reagan at all, but he probably could have worded it differently and been more clear on why he was invoking Reagan.

[pnwmom]

15. Me, too. And with his putting Clinton and Nixon in the same category.

What a low blow.

[Dawgs]

17. Long deep breath... now exhale!!

I think you're reading too much into this. Obama wasn't endorsing Reagan's policies. Look at some of the other posts on this overblown subject.

[Uben]

19. casino workers or teachers?

Which ones are we going to support?

This is what the lawsuit comes down to....do you believe the teachers or the culinary union officials.
The teachers say the casino caucus sites make it hard for members to vote, if that vote is not for Obama.
The culinary union says it is more convenient for it's members.

Which one supresses votes?

You decide.

[cloudythescribbler]

30. Bogus framing of issue from another thread -- why didn't "teachers" object for 9 months? nt

[madmom]

22. Most people decide with 30 second sound bites, they don't to the homework...

look at the swift boaters, they will hear Obama liked the way reagan did things and hear nothing else.They called reagan the "great communicator" he was a lousy president, but people don't see that because they don't do their homework, is that the kind of president Obama wants to be, grab the 30 second sound bite and run? Talk is cheap, we need action!

[ladjf]

23. At best, Obama's views on Reagan mean that he doesn't

realize what a disaster Reagan was for America. Reagan told America what they wanted to hear. He was not bothered by the truth.

[cloudythescribbler]

31. Spin doctory & pure nonsense

[Clarkansas]

25. This Reagan thing is one of the biggest non-issues ever to earn 1000 threads on du. eom

[cloudythescribbler]

37. That Reagan & Co achieved their stated agenda MUCH more than Clinton is the simple truth nt

There are plenty of good people whose agendae have been defeated, and plenty of awful folk who were successful for a time, sometimes a LONG time (like Franco and Stalin). Acknowledging unhappy facts is NOT opportunism, it's frankness!

[Strelnikov_]

46. Seconded. A 'Jump the Shark' moment? n/t

[Adelante]

28. smoogatz, watch the full interview

http://news.rgj.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080115/VIDEO/80115026&oaso=news.rgj.com/breakingnews

Don't rely on the snippet going around.

[rucky]

34. Take it alongside Will Smith's comments about Hitler...

and it begins to make more sense.

[Akoto]

35. It's called appealing to the other side.

This is an election where, by many accounts, the Republicans are not thrilled with their choices. In large number, they are disillusioned with their party's actions and priorities after the last several years. Read the news and you'll see more than a few admit that they'd consider voting Democratic. Reagan remains an important figure to Republicans, and bringing him up might not be a bad way of attracting some of those fence-sitters who'd consider switching sides.

As for those who say Reagan was a MONSTER!!11!, get a grip, honestly. He was an awful president who made bad decisions, but there are many world leaders who could more credibly be labeled as monsters. Hitler, whose Holocaust alone killed millions of innocents. Kim Jong-il, who cuts his people off from the world and leaves them to live in poor conditions, while forcing them to idealize him in a state-sanctioned cult. Reagan is small potatoes next to that, and I don't think speaking his name should be the equal of asking Satan for a favor.

[chimpymustgo]

38. Hitler got a lot of people to "unite" around him, too. And in the context of American history,

Reagan's role CANNOT be romanticized. That's what "they" do. We are not part of that blind, fascist, racist, corporatist, war-mongering, drug-dealing, arms trading - need I go on? - mindset.

Philadelphia, Mississippi. Reagan made his stand and his statement. Obama needs to get a grip and some understanding of what Reagan REALLY did to America.

[smoogatz]

43. Bingo.

I think he's trying to show that he's no blind ideologue, but in doing so he's helping the wingnuts rewrite history. Kind of like Kucinich voting "yes" on the fucking "America is a Christian nation" resolution. Blargh.

[lurky]

41. I finally just watched the clip,

and this "Reaganite" dog just doesn't bark for me. It was pretty clear he was describing the historical conditions that led to a Reagan victory in 1980 and a 20 year shift in American politics. Most of this screaming and yelling on DU is just feigned outrage designed to undermine your confidence and weaken your support for your candidate.

For the record, I haven't committed to a candidate yet, but will probably vote for Edwards or Obama, depending on how things shake out between now and Super Tuesday.

[peacebaby3]

42. Reagan's election was when the country moved to the right of center.

That's why he described it as having "trajectory."

It wasn't a compliment. It was a statement of his (and mine along with most everyone else I know) opinion on where our country is right now politically. We, as liberals, have been fighting a huge battle to take the country back to a center left which it was back in the day of the Kennedy's. We have an opportunity with the right candidate to change the trajectory of political ideals and action in this country.

Why would you have a problem with him discussing this and wanting to change it?

[mdmc]

44. just politics

Raygun was the worst president ever. I really like Obama...