What's your definition of "democracy"?

[JanMichael]

Frankly Aristotle defined all of the "cracy's" quite well in "Politics". I would not hazard to call attention to his designs on what would be best right and true system (rule by the "mean" if you know what I mean.) but for the sake of definitional reasons he should suffice.

Let us begin.

Here's a nice paragraph on democracy and plutocracy:

"For the real difference between democracy and oligarchy is poverty and wealth. Wherever men rule by reason of their wealth, whether they be few or many, that is an oligarchy, and where the poor rule, that is a democracy."

He goes on to point out that the many are quite typically made up of the poor and not the other way around (except maybe in places like Monaco where the rich go in droves and it's limited by available space).

Another:

"For example, the appointment of magistrates by lot is thought to be democratical, and the election of them oligarchical."

"By lot". How many DU'ers understand that concept? Basically all rule and all are ruled. Random rules apply.

Back to plutocracy; it is simply rule by a monied class (hint: us.). Oh and oligarchy, rule by the few (do the math).

Also what we call "democratic procedure" might more correctly be called a psephonomic procedure which simply means by ballot and nothing else. Who would be on the ballot, and who would eventually rule, refers back to the plutocratic and oligarchic definitions. Perhaps at its absolute best it will produce an aristocracy which is still not democratic except among the oligarchs, and the few exceptional non-oligarchic types who bust their way in (i.e. the best and brightest), that compete.

Back to the current dominant political state system, parliamentary democracy. Is it "democratic" or is it rule by the oligarchy and its members?

So what about something more akin to Periclean democracy? Of course there are much bigger populations now but as you all be aware computational capabilities are a tad better so random stratified sampling could easily replace the box with the colored stones...

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

1. Here's what H.L. Mencken has to say about it.

"Democracy, too, is a religion. It is the worship of jackals by jackasses."

IMO, "democracy" in this country is a way of electing "leaders" who promptly fall prey to Lord Acton's axiom about power.

[Birthmark]

2. I'm not sure that old-style democracy works anymore.

The issues in a developed society are so complex that I just don't have that much confidence in the concept of self-governance as it is currently practiced anywhere.

We've become a society of specialists. Maybe we need some way to apply specialization to the concept of democracy. For instance, in our system perhaps we could do away with Electoral Votes based on States and award EVs on the basis of voting within various specialized fields.

I'm thinking this through on the fly, so... :)

And how ya been, guy?

[JanMichael]

4. I've been good, and you?

Still in Florida? Stillchatting with our old buddies at the Wasteland?

By the way much of what I'm advocating politically can be found in Is Democracy Possible?

Also the concepts of Deliberative Polling and Citizens Juries play off of these same ideas. As to specialists there are ways to focus the "by lot" to impacted parties which would include specialists and those that are impacted by their work.

With today's technology the "socialist calculation argument" of the 30's-50's has been solved, by companies like WalMart (ironic, eh?). It also makes the "by lot" concept WAY easier too.

"Towards a New Socialism" is a book that talks about all of these concepts and can be found online here.

I have it hard-copy...

[Essene]

3. 1. direct democracy, 2. representative democracy, 3. democratic culture, and 4. popular sovereignty

They imply very different things and it's important to differentiate between them.

1. direct democracy
2. representative democracy
3. democratic culture (liberalism & humanism in the classical senses)
4. popular sovereignty

For example, you could have representative democracy in a society without popular sovereignty. Where it's more of a symbolic, parliamentary facade to a dictatorship or theocracy. Yep.

Democratic culture is what we often leave out of our discussions, and a commitment to it would be reflected in the desire to have strong public schools that teach civics... strong civil rights... free markets... and freedom of press.