Non-smokers and Smokers, Please Check in...

[kster]

A suggestion about the smoking ban

Why not ask the lawmakers for fairness in the smoking bans, "so we can all get along" heres my suggestion...

Smoking is permitted in bars, restaurants, casinos and bowling alleys at even numbered addresses on even numbered calendar days. Smoking is not permitted at even numbered addresses on odd numbered calendar days .


Smoking is permitted in bars, restaurants, casinos and bowling alleys at odd numbered addresses on odd numbered calendar days. Smoking is not permitted at odd numbered addresses on even numbered calendar days.

Kind of like the lawn watering restrictions.

This way all people, Owners, Employees, Smokers and Non-Smokers have equal rights and no one is forcing their beliefs on each other.

Employees can apply for the non-smoking days or smoking days.

It would be a win win for all parties involved Owners, Employees, Smokers and Non-smokers.

What say you?

[TechBear_Seattle]

1. I will acknowledge your right to smoke in public if and only if

You give me the right to fill the air around you with 30 carcinogenic compounds and an additional 120 toxic substances of my chosing.

[The Straight Story]

5. You mean like by driving?

:)

[TechBear_Seattle]

9. I said "of my choice."

I don't drive, so there. :hi:

[The Straight Story]

10. So should we stop others from driving? (nt)

[taterguy]

11. I'd support a ban on driving every other day

Of course if it rained two days in a row I'd be a bit miffed.

[Toots]

91. So two wrongs make a right to you?

:shrug: Figures..

[taterguy]

93. Since when is driving wrong?

People need their cars

[Mojambo]

2. Will there be an 800 number I can call or something?

Because that seems really confusing.

[kster]

19. Find two bars with opposite addresses, and you can drink

and smoke every day, same goes for non-smokers.

[kster]

36. Great idea

1-800-SMOKE IT or 1-800-NO SMOKE.

For a list of bars, retsaurants, bowling alleys, and casinos in your area that are going to be smoking or non smoking, for that day.

Now thats how to work things out the American way!!!!

:thumbsup:

[alfredo]

3. It still subjects the workers to the smoke.

[kster]

16. If they work on the non-smoking days.

they wouldn't be affected by smoke at all.

[alfredo]

29. The workers are still subject to scheduling. You might have to choose

between working on smoke days or not being employed.

[kster]

56. I know what you mean the

the employees that applied for smoking days might have to to work on non smoking days or not being employed.

Come on lets get real with this debate, good god you are embarrassing yourself.

Adult American Employees can decide for themselves whether they want to be protected by the government or not.

[alfredo]

58. The problem comes when a person who doesn't want to work on

smoke days, but is compelled to work on a smoke day because of scheduling problems. You know that if you are not available when needed, your job will be in jeopardy. It puts the worker into a situation where they have to choose between a paycheck and health.

[kster]

61. Not a problem at all, if he/she applied for a non-smoking

only position, and the bar made him/her come in on a smoking day the bar would be in violation of the 50/50 law. I not sure how else to explain it to you.

[alfredo]

62. We don't have such a law here. Smoking was banned in public places

years ago. We live in the middle of the burley belt.

[Hippo_Tron]

46. Yup, that's the only reason I support smoking bans, workers' rights issue

Although I don't particularly care for the way they write the laws in some states

[kster]

47. So should anyone who is afraid of heights be able to apply for a roofing job

I'm not getting your theory. Please explain.

[Hippo_Tron]

50. No, but people have a right to work in buildings without asbestos

And people that work in office buildings have the right to work in a smoke free environment. I don't see why restaurant employees should not get those same protections.

There's a difference between taking on a job that is potentially hazardous no matter what, and not making a workplace as safe as possible for employees.

[kster]

51. My point is if you are afraid of heights, you

wouldn't be searching the help wanted ads for a roofing job, and if you can't stand second hand smoke you shouldn't be searching the help wanted ads for a waiter/waitress job.

But thats besides the point, with my suggestion an employee, that can't stand second hand smoke could apply at opposite addresses that are non-smoking, same as an employee that smokes could apply at opposite addresses that are smoking addresses.

Its fair, and, its the American way, equal rights for all.

[lumpy]

68. What ever happened to choice? Workers are not forced to

work under conditions they do not find favorable. There is no smoking inside my home; if anyone wants to smoke outside on my premises it's OK with me. The next step will be that there will be no smoking, period, inside or outside our own premises. I think smoke from neighborhood BBQs, campfires or trash burning is just as bad or worse as it can pollute the whole neignborhood and remains in the air for long periods. Would people be willing to give up their weekend BBQs? Probably not. It should be a matter of choice whether or not private businesses and private individuals want to allow smoking on their premises.

[NRaleighLiberal]

4. One cigarette in any area ruins it forever. Won't work!

[XboxWarrior]

7. My car exhaust......

will kill you in an hour......

wanna sit in my garage as I warm up the Subaru?

[NRaleighLiberal]

12. thanks - you confirmed my views about smokers. nt

[The Straight Story]

6. Screw choice - it is for free people only

Allowing a person to do something legal in YOUR business is just wrong....

[lumpy]

70. Hear hear. It is about a certain freedom, called choice.

v

[Chovexani]

8. I'm an occasional social smoker

Mostly because the kind I like (high quality all-natural cloves) are too expensive for me to develop a habit for.

I can see both sides of the argument. A couple of months ago I went to a brewery restaurant with a rather large group, and the only place they could seat us was out on the patio (which is the only place anyone in Phoenix can smoke with our restrictive ban). A couple of guys came out about 15 minutes later and lit up right next to my end of the table, where I was sitting with my old roomies, 2 of which have asthma and severe cig allergies. The way the wind was blowing, it was going right in their faces and they actually had to go inside. We politely asked the guys to put them out--you'd think all the hacking going on behind them would have clued them in--but they acted like complete dicks so we had to get the waitress, who re-seated them.

Non-smokers can be wanky and obnoxious towards smokers but way too many smokers act like it's their gods-given right to blow their toxic shit in people's faces. I am all for personal freedom but with that comes a responsibility to not be a douchebag. We shouldn't need laws for people to not be assholes.

[sellitman]

13. A win - win is smoke free establishments.

Anything else should be considered criminal.

[kster]

14. Your favorite place would be smoke free 15 or 16

days a month. In case I've confused any one.

[sellitman]

18. Huh?

The other days the employees should just die?

[Snarkturian Clone]

20. Die?

You're an idiot. IF second-hand smoke does damage, it certainly takes quite a long time.

[sellitman]

30. If it does damage? IF?

It isn't me who is an idiot.

[kster]

25. The other days are

there off days or if they mind second hand smoke they can work in two bars with opposite addresses .

[sellitman]

31. Very clever.

Just not practical.

[kster]

43. Why? nt

[Midlodemocrat]

66. Doesn't matter. The place would still reek.

It's not like stale smoke smells nice you know. Additionally, it lingers. :puke:

[Contrary1]

15. I don't think that would work...

The smoke smell permeates the window coverings, carpet...pretty much everything.

I think the business owner should be the one who decides. Here in Indianapolis,
there is a smoking permitted bar/restaurant. It is plainly stated in their ads, and
on the door. We have been there a couple times.

You would not believe how many people carry on about the smoke. I would guess
the number of non-smoking restaurants/bars around here would be about 90% of
the total.

We like the food, so we go there. For us, the positives outweigh the negatives.

[BeFree]

17. Well

As long as DU doesn't ban smokers from smoking while on DU, we're cool.

[Dont_Bogart_the_Pretzel]

21. not yet....

some posters around here think smoking at home is bad for them too!

[MADem]

22. On BOY!!!! Another SMOKING thread!!!!! nt

[devilgrrl]

23. Oh, I'm sorry - is my smoke bothering any one?

Sorry.

At least it's just tobacco and not that Whacky Weed that causes lung cancer should one take up the habit of smoking a garbage bag full of it for 800 years straight.

[pleah]

79. Love the pic!

[Snarkturian Clone]

24. I'm a non-smoker

with the ability to adapt to my surroundings without the government's help. I feel this way because I want to live in a free country. In a free country, a business owner decides whether or not an establishment needs to be smoke-free or not.

All these crybaby hypochondriac Duers who think that secondhand smoke will kill you instantly need to learn how to survive without the government mandating it for them. I don't want to see any of you anti-smoking fools gripe about loss of civil liberties-- this is how it starts.

[in_cog_ni_to]

26. Where the hell did you come from?

A sane non-smoker? :wow:

It's unheard of on DU! :hi:

[kster]

27. I agree, but, as long

as the government has the appearance of us being divided when it comes to the smoking issue, they can continue to take our rights away. Divide and conquer.

This idea would give smokers and non-smokers a 50/50 use of public places, but most importantly we would have checks and balances on the lawmakers, and we would be able to see if it is just a small group of people trying to make the rules for the rest of us.

Personally, I don't think this issue of second hand smoke is that big a deal to the majority, with this idea we would be able to find out.

[sellitman]

32. Yes smokers need to right to pollute

Big business needs it too.

Are you sure you are in the right party?

[Snarkturian Clone]

34. Yes I'm in the right party.

My party likes freedom. Does yours?

[leeroysphitz]

33. I wish everyone on DU had a webcam.

So I could count how many of the busybody's heads just exploded. :thumbsup:

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

59. !

:applause:

[Midlodemocrat]

67. Bullshit. It's friggin' disgusting to be around. The health risks

aren't all that matters to people. The smell is vomit inducing.

[pleah]

80. Thank you. Most businesses had that option before it was forced on them.

[Zorra]

87. OK. So then it's OK with you if I shit on your table in a restaurant while

you are eating dinner? You see, I have this terrible addiction. I feel compelled to shit where everyone else can smell it.

I feel it is my inalienable right to shit on your table while your family is enjoying dinner, and I don't believe the government should mandate that I cannot shit on your table.

In a free country, a business owner decides whether an establishment needs to be shit free or not.

[sandnsea]

28. Indoor Air Quality - Ventilation Systems

Why don't we measure indoor air quality the way we do heavily trafficked intersections and require air purification systems to clean ALL the shit out of the air.

Oooh, because we couldn't demonize and tax cigarettes if we did that, that's why.

[Stinky The Clown]

35. The furniture and the walls will still stink.

I quit smoking just about a year ago.

My comment, above, was a joke.

Mostly.

[kster]

40. I don't like the smell of stale beer

but it won't stop me from hanging out in bars.

It won't hurt me, as the smell of smoke won't hurt you.

Are you ready to start sharing public places?

[Stinky The Clown]

41. Guess what ...... I smoked for 53 years upo until one year ago

I'm very used to being a smoking pariah. No matter how considerate I thought I was being, I still made things stink.

Seriously, I have no objection to people smoking in places where its appropriate. I think its okay in bars, for example. Smoke is part of being there. Unfortunately, the facts are what we both know they are. Smoking hurts people. And it makes things stink.

I'm glad I quit. I will **NOT** judge you for smoking.

[kster]

42. Thank you, We are Americans and we can

share public places, we just can't do it together. I congratulate you on quiting, but the facts are the facts, people smoke and they want to do the same things that you do, but they want to be free to smoke while doing it.

If we share public places which is how Americans usually work things out, everyone is happy.

Its the American way.

May your next 53 years be smoke free. :thumbsup:

[flyarm]

37. I quit almost 4 mo ago..CHANTIX..do it!! yes it is hard but this stuff works!

i tried everything ..nothing worked..but this stuff works..and over Xmas my son and hubby and realitives said my dispostion wa sso much nicer..and that my complexion was so much roseier..and that i seemed so much happier..

well i didn't notice the difference..but everyone else did.

i know it is damn hard to quit..but i did it with the help of this wonderful stuff..Chantix!!

My doc had not heard of it..but now he has put all his patients on it and all have now quit!!

My obgyn bought it for all her nurses for xmas and most quit..

try it please..i am thrilled that i got this med and i no longer cough ..or annoy everyone around me!!

do i still want a smoke..hell yes..but i won't now..i even went to Iowa and SC with the Edwards campaign..and i thought damn can i do it without a smoke..well hells bells ..i did!!

and i am damn proud of me!!

I am working out too..and i have not gaoned any weight..but i haven't lost any either ( dang it) ...

i will never be one of those nasty non smokers..because i hated them..

but please if you can do it ..do it!!

fly

[BrotherBuzz]

39. I just started my second round with CHANTIX

I'm three months smoke-free but I really felt I was going to fall off the wagon so I pleaded with Ins., doctor, and pharm to go another three months. Green light. Oh, I've been totally enjoying my dreams BIG TIME, too.

[Digit]

45. I was on that months ago, and had a dream I was married to John Edwards

Those darned dreams are SO real, I really THOUGHT I was married to him until I woke up completely.
In the dream Elizabeth was okay with it, and still connected in a way.

I don't usually have vivid dreams, but Chantix really played mind tricks with me in my dream state.

[Withywindle]

48. OK, that's the best argument for quitting I've heard yet!

:D

As for the other arguments--yanno, I'm all for workers' health and safety, but that argument would be a lot more convincing if, in my quarter-century of club-going, I'd EVER met a bartender who didn't smoke. In fact, most bar/club employees I've known considered being able to smoke on the job as a major perk.

[frogcycle]

38. let me think about it...

ok, I thought about it


naahhhh!

we should just ban smoking everywhere; make tobacco illegal, fill up the prisons with tobacco smokers. Make them bunk with pot smokers. They can go cold turkey together.


That'll fix it.

[kster]

44. How will we solve the overweight problem, I got it

throw them in prison for a crash diet.

Now that we have the smoking and overweight problem solved, what next? :rofl:

[frogcycle]

57. people who fart

plug 'em up and let them explode

:rofl:

[Eurobabe]

49. Forget it, it will never work

I like my air smoke free. However, I do think there should be certain bars/clubs where people can smoke if they want to. I don't frequent these establishments anyhow, so for me it is no big deal, but I can see why smokers might be ticked about that.

Restaurants should ALWAYS be smoke free. Europe is going smoke free and it's been wonderful, they just did a survey in Germany and 95% of the people in Bavaria are happy with the new smoking bans in ALL public places.

It's the wave of the future.

[El Pinko]

52. Banning smoking in public places is fair.

Smokers are still (for the most part) able to smoke in their homes, their cars and outdoors, and I don't think the bans need to extend to those areas, even though some municipalities seem to be pushing the envelope in that direction.

Letting people smoke in restaurants, etc. every other day is absurd, considering only 17% of the adult population even smokes anymore.



Banning smoking in public places is not about forcing beliefs on anyone. It's about protecting public health, and promoting civility (smoking in a public, confined space is an extremely rude act).

If it was about forcing beliefs on others, there would be a serious effort to ban tobacco. At this point there is not.

[kster]

54. You may be correct

(smoking in a public, confined space is an extremely rude act).

But an equal to all, 50/50 rule would be a better place to start from, in order to confirm that you are correct.

I'm willing to share my public space with you, if you are willing to share it with me.

Lets test these laws.

[Warren DeMontague]

75. Every other day, in restaurants, diners who want to should be able to shit on the tables.

That's the only way to be fair to those who aren't willing to get up and go to the john.

[Warren DeMontague]

53. Indoor smoking bans are already more than fair to smokers. There is more space outside than inside.

Walk out the door, and the universe is your personal ashtray. Yay!

[kster]

55. I want them to be fair to smokers and non smokers alike

its the American way. EVEN ODD, lets Share our public places. :)

[Warren DeMontague]

60. No, the American way is to step outside before lighting up, and stop whining about it.

Good fucking grief.

[kster]

64. Heres an similar example, its really easy...

Lawn sprinkling for even numbered addresses on even numbered calendar days is permitted between the hours of 6 a.m. to 10 a.m. and/or 6 p.m. to 10 p.m.

Lawn sprinkling for odd numbered addresses on odd numbered calendar days is permitted between the hours of 6 a.m. to 10 a.m. and/or 6 p.m. to 10 p.m.

The watering of gardens, trees, shrubs, and flowers (by use of a handheld hose or watering can) is permitted anytime.

If there are any questions concerning water restrictions, please call Public Works

:)

[Warren DeMontague]

72. I know. It's like, toooootally unfair.

Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaah.

The good news is, you can whine, wheedle, bitch, piss, and moan about it all you want, and the laws pertaining to smoking in indoor, enclosed public buildings in the great state of California will NOT change. Ever.

Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah.

[Snarkturian Clone]

78. You may live in the We're So Much More Enlightened Than You state,

but I live in America, which is supposed to be free. Here in Philadelphia, 100 year old bars are shutting down and losing tons of customers due to a ban on smoking in bars. The law is definitely NOT popular here because the people who live here like the smokey dive bars that the tourists are afraid of. Thankfully, a bar that does not serve food can apply to the city to be a smoking establishment, but only 2 bars that I know of have done it. The last 2 places in Philadelphia that are free as far as I'm concerned, which is ironic being that America's freedom started here.

All the whiners are the ones that can't stand an unpleasant smell around them and require a LAW to solve their own personal problem.
I'm allergic to cigarette smoke and I manage to adapt to the situation because I'm not a damn crybaby.

You need the government to take care of you because you are too weak and too stupid to take care of yourself. Oh sorry, you're in the "great" state of California, the smugness capital of the world- where you actually take celebrity opinions seriously enough to vote them in as your governors. Soon your state will make a law mandating that a government worker wipe your ass for you-- then you'll be on here saying how enlightened your state is because you wouldn't be able to do it yourself.

[Warren DeMontague]

81. Uh Huh.

I watched my dad die of lung cancer. Maybe you think it's just about an "unpleasant smell", but some of us know better.

If you need to smoke those turds indoors, stay out of California. Yeah, I know, we suck. Only 34 million people here, more coming every day- obviously, we don't know what we're doing.

I've been to Philly, by the way. Not impressed.

[Snarkturian Clone]

82. Good luck, hope you enjoy the rest of the laws

your mother, the government, makes for your own good. This is how civil liberties begin to dwindle.

[Warren DeMontague]

86. Right. Civil liberties die the minute you have to go outside to smoke.

Waaah.

No, civil liberties die when people conflate being inconvenienced with the constitution being shat upon. Cancer grannies getting dragged off to prison for smoking a joint, that's dwindling civil liberties. Government outlawing womens' birth control options, that's dwindling civil liberties.

Cigarette smokers not being permitted to smoke their legal product absolutely every-damn-where they please is NOT "oppression".

Please, spare me the whiny drama.

Oh, and if I remember correctly, it was PA that sent Rick Santorum to the US Senate. I'm not sure you're really in a position to be scoffing at California's choices in politicians.

[Snarkturian Clone]

88. You'd rather live in a police state

that worships celebrities. You're pathetic.

[Warren DeMontague]

89. Yes. It's a police state. Because smokers have to go outside the restaurant to smoke.

Waaaaah.

Sure, what kind of crazy person would want to live in a place like this:





I mean, they don't let you enjoy your stack of pancakes at IHOP with a yummy, 8 am Marlboro Red!

Hey- I may be "pathetic", but at least I'm not addicted to something that makes me smell like wet dog ass.

[Name removed]

90. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Javaman]

63. I sort of smolder. nt

[lumpy]

65. Business owners should have the choice whether or not

they permit smoking in their establishments, just as homeowners should have the choice whether or not to permit smoking on their premises.

[kster]

69. I agree 100%, but some states have taken that right away

from the owner. This idea may help the owners in those states to come up with a reasonable solution for the second hand smoke debate.

[Warren DeMontague]

73. The problem is already solved in the state of California, and the laws are extremely popular.

But thanks for trying to "help". :eyes:

[Viking12]

84. So we should do away with all public health & worker protections laws?

Restaraunts shouldn't have to meet basic food preparations standards just as homeowners don't have meet them? Equipment in restaraunts shouldn't meet basic safety standards just as homeowners don't have meet them? That business owners should be ble to exclude people based on race just as homeowners do? Is that your argument? If so, you fail to recognize the differences legal status between public accomodations and private residences.


BTW: I am a smoker. I don't beleive I have the 'right' to interfere with others' use of public places.

[noamnety]

92. Business owners should have the choice whether or not

they subject their employees to toxic air.

hmmmm.

[GoneOffShore]

71. No, no and no.

If smokers want to smoke they have several options - outside - 20 feet from the entrance to any building. In their cars. In their own homes.

Just got back from France where the smoking ban is in full effect and even the smokers like it.

Americans have no sense of "community" or "public good" and hence the smokers are looking at this as a matter of "individual rights".

Goddamn cowboy, rugged individualistic mentality.

[Warren DeMontague]

74. I know. I live in wine country, and I've never seen so much friggin whine.

What? I have to go outside to smoke? Fascism! :eyes:

[walldude]

76. Funny, isn't it... that the biggest whiner on this thread seems to be

you.

[Warren DeMontague]

77. I guess.

Actually, I have little to whine about- the laws in California are very popular, and they aren't going anywhere. Bars, restaurants, gas stations and hospital ICUs have somehow managed to survive while cruelly forcing smokers to walk out the front door or 20 feet off the premises before lighting their Marlboros.

Nevertheless it's amazing how nothing really brings out the impassioned defenders of Constitutional freedom like the threat of actually having to step the fuck outside before smoking.

[kster]

85. A good book for you

http://www.target.com/gp/detail.html/602-2603735-1487045?asin=0836882768&afid=yahoosspplp_bmvd&lnm=0836882768

[Canuckistanian]

83. I'm neither

So I don't have to check in...