People who harm or torture animals should be punished

[hyphenate]

America is learning this, one evil bastard at a time: Bill Frist, Michael Vick, Mitt Romney.......

I say, keep it up, America! Teach anyone who tries to rationalize such obscenities that most people are getting wiser to the facts, and that animals feel pain and misery just as much as the rest of us do.

"Until he extends the circle of his compassion to all living things, man will not himself find peace. It is man's sympathy with all creatures that first makes him truly a man." Albert Schweitzer

[flvegan]

1. This country as a whole has made great strides in animal protection.

I can only hope it gets better.

[hyphenate]

14. True

And I credit, to a large degree, all those animal advocate groups through the years which kept going, despite many people believing that they were crazy. PETA might go a bit too far too often, but the anti-vivesection groups and the SPCA type groups have been pounding away steadily, through horrible press, to affect us with the truth. I credit many of them which helped me see some terrible stuff and see how evil humans can be. It's been 31 years now, and I am still sometimes appalled at what is done.

[flvegan]

18. And don't forget groups like HSUS that lobby for tougher laws.

Not only lobby, but get them passed.

[hyphenate]

21. Amen to that!

I came to know Wayne Pacelle when I worked for a campaign in California to ban leghold traps, which we successfully completed. He is quite driven in his work, and it's great to see more and more members of Congress getting the message.

[flvegan]

34. Wayne is a friend of mine.

He's quite driven, yes, but never get in a car if he's the driver.

Ever.

I was never happier than when HSUS named him CEO. He's the best.

[hyphenate]

36. I'll try to remember that

if I'm ever in that position. ;)

Do you know Aaron Medlock? Aaron was the main coordinator for the leghold trap legislation. He pretty much stayed in California during the campaign. We had a great victory party!

[flvegan]

37. I don't, no.

Yes, I recall the victory parties after the Florida gestation crate initiative passed. They DO know how to celebrate! Nothing like an activist conga line!

Are you still in CA? Are you involved in the California Humane initiative? Now THAT is gonna be HUGE!

[hyphenate]

38. No, I'm home in Massachusetts

I left California 5 years ago, amazingly to the day. I was out there 15 years. My mom and other members of my family are still there, though. My mom said she would never move back here. She's pretty frail now, though, so I might be needing to go there fairly soon, though I hope not.

[flvegan]

39. My best

to your mom.

Massachusetts is my original home. Plymouth born. I'd still be there if I hadn't left for college here in FL, where I settled.

[varkam]

2. I don't think that many people are seriously claiming...

that people who abuse or torture animals should not be punished. I think it's really a no-brainer that people who do things like that should receive some sort of punishment. Perhaps people who seem ambivalent about it are questioning the appropriateness of some of the sentences that are handed down in such cases.

[bluedawg12]

10. True, hang the dog hangers! n/t

[hyphenate]

16. If I could, I would

But I can't, so I just have to cheer those who can!

[varkam]

33. I don't think that would be appropriate. eom

[hyphenate]

15. I think that it's taken a long time

for some people to get the message. Dog-fighting, puppy mills, stealing pets for sale to experimental laboratories, horrible, horrible things have been perpetrated on our closest friends in the cycle of life that will never see light of day. It's not just the bad things themselves, but the reasoning behind some of the evil deeds that makes it so pervasively criminal.

Twenty years ago, someone might have said, "So what? It's just an animal." Today, we're finally getting empathetic enough that animal abuse is seen in the light of day where it can't be so easily hidden. Back then, Pete Singer was considered a troublemaker, yet today his work is almost matter-of-fact, in a good way. We do try to keep our pets and other creatures in mind when we can, and that is what counts.

Punishing high profile cases, like Vick, brings us one step closer to the bond and contract we're supposed to have with our animal friends.

[cosmik debris]

3. I like steak, I like pork chops, I like hamburgers

If you want to punish everybody who eats meat, we have a problem.

[bluedawg12]

13. Do you hang or beat the cow before you eat it?

Is eating livestock the same as hanging or beating a companion domesticated animal that has been bred to live with us and respond to us and be loyal to us ?

Not really.

http://www.noahswish.org/CurrentRecentDisasters/SouthLakeTahoeFire/webimages/IMG_1475-2,1.jpg
http://www.noahswish.org/CurrentRecentDisasters/SouthLakeTahoeFire/PhotoGallery.html

[hyphenate]

20. That's all we can count on

That those animals who are killed for meat are killed in such a way to make it quick, and as painless as possible. I know that's not essentially what happens, but it is something to hope for.

[hyphenate]

19. Someday, it might happen

But I won't press for it, since I know that we are carnivores. And even when I'm not, I know my cats can't live without meat, and since they're not out hunting for their own dinner, I have to provide them with it.

I have a fantasy, though, where all meat is "made" through cloning, and animals themselves are not subjected to death for food. I don't see it as "truth" but as fantasy, because it would take a very long time for it to happen. I just hope that those who work in the meat industry treat the animals in their care with respect. I noted about a week ago that some meat industry workers were punished for animal abuse. That article made me believe that perhaps most workers do, just like with every thing else, there are some sick bastards out there who don't. I can't ask for more than that.

[roguevalley]

4. my pets, all my dogs and cats have taught me more about

unconditional love and grace, loyalty and friendship than almost anyone else in my life outside of my two parents. Animals and their company make you better. Anyone who hurts them pokes God directly in the eye in my opinion. I love animals so much.

[bluedawg12]

12. Domesticated animals- like the dog, has influenced who we are

as much as our domesticating them, has influenced them evolution wise.

I have cats and dogs and they are a joy.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

17. Sure.

But then cows and sheep and pigs are domesticated too.

Just saying.

[hyphenate]

24. I wish I could change many eons of conditioning

But it won't happen in this lifetime. But considering where animal advocacy was thirty years ago, I can see we might be on the right track.

[meow2u3]

45. Cows, pigs, and sheep are farm animals

Cats and dogs are companion animals. They're both domesticated, but they serve much different purposes to humans. Few farm animals are considered family to the point of people calling them their kids, but most cats and dogs are our furkids.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

46. Depends on what society you're talking about.

In India, cows are sacred. Over here they're food.

[RebelOne]

47. So, is that why some animals are called pets and others called dinner?

[hyphenate]

23. Totally!

:)

[hyphenate]

22. I agree

The animals in my life accept me unconditionally. It makes me understand unconditional love, and what we could accomplish if we strove for that goal all the time. It won't happen completely anytime soon, but if the concept can be imagined, it can someday be realized.

[flyingfysh]

5. people are also animals

So those who torture people should also be punished. When can we apply this to the Bush administration?

[hyphenate]

25. I'm up for

charges of mass murder of both animals and humans after we have a Democrat in the white house against B&C, but until we are in charge, I'm afraid they're the ones with the "Get out of jail free" cards.

[zonkers]

6. I cannot tell you how much I appreciate your post. If you ever want to inform

me of any sort of news story event or anything relevant to this topic, please feel free to message me.
z.

[hyphenate]

26. Thanks!

If you are interested in animal issues on the more local level, you might want to check out http://www.forgottenfelines.com or http://www.alleycat.org which are both cat rescue groups. I am not familiar with dog groups, though, but there are likely many out there. Most of the work I am familiar with in the dog world is rescue work of specific breeds, but there are probably more general groups. The first link has been working on an animal rescue that began in June, when a kitten named Adam needed help. You can read more about Adam and the other animals in the group at the link. I love when there is a happy ending to something, and it's important for us to realize and witness even one example of that.

I also belong to quite a number of the larger groups. like HSUS, ASPCA, American Humane Association and others. I try to post letter writing campaigns or newsletter alerts for action when I can as well. My email is constantly filled with requests for donations, and I try to send what I can when I can, but I always say that I'll take care of that in a much bigger way when I win the lottery. It hasn't happened yet. ;)

[roguevalley]

40. make these your home pages and you will help the weak and

animals and the sick everyday:

www.theanimalrescuesite.com

and www.care2.com

[bluedawg12]

7. James Dobson and David Huackabee

RW family values phony Dobson bragged about beating his little dog, in his book. i heard about this years ago and wrote about it here, I wanted to puke, this guy weighs 212lbs. do a google on him and this issue.


http://www.nospank.net/dugan.htm

>>In his best-selling book, The Strong-Willed Child, child-rearing author James Dobson describes how he abused his family's pet dachshund, Siggie:


"I had seen this defiant mood before, and knew there was only one way to deal with it. The ONLY way to make Siggie obey is to threaten him with destruction. Nothing else works. I turned and went to my closet and got a small belt to help me 'reason' with Mr. Freud."

What developed next is impossible to describe. That tiny dog and I had the most vicious fight ever staged between man and beast. I fought him up one wall and down the other, with both of us scratching and clawing and growling and swinging the belt. I am embarrassed by the memory of the entire scene. Inch by inch I moved him toward the family room and his bed. As a final desperate maneuver, Siggie backed into the corner for one last snarling stand. I eventually got him to bed, only because I outweighed him 200 to 12!" <<


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Huckabee

>>Boy Scouts controversy
In the fourth quarter of 2007, Huckabee's 1998 dismissal as a counselor for the Boy Scouts was exposed.<13><14> Huckabee, then 17, had some level of involvement in the hanging of a stray dog.<13>

When an animal rights group sought records from the Arkansas state police they were denied. John Bailey, the then Police chief reported that "(Mike Huckabee's) chief of staff and personal lawyer both leaned on him to write a letter officially denying the local prosecutor's request".<13> Mike Huckabee fired Bailey seven months later. In December 2007, during Huckabee's campaign for President, Bailey told Newsweek that the governor said at the time, "I've lost confidence in your ability to do your job" and, "I couldn't get you to help me with my son when I had that problem".<13>

Mike Huckabee vehemently denies the allegations made by Bailey.<13> Mike Huckabee insists his son did not engage in "intentional torture," and a campaign official said that he "'regrets' the incident".<13><<

http://www.newsweek.com/id/78241

CAMPAIGN 2008
A Son’s Past Deeds Come Back To Bite Huckabee
By Michael Isikoff and Holly Bailey | NEWSWEEK

[hyphenate]

28. I remember reading about Huckabee

not that long ago at DU on that incident. There is a fact in profiler circles that those who abuse, torture and kill animals often grow up to be serial killers. Any famous serial killer for the most part has been found to harm small animals when they were younger. I would say that those who don't end up as serial killers still likely are sociopathic or have some other anti-social behavior. I wouldn't doubt it.

[bluedawg12]

8. What is it about RW power junkies beating poochies n/t

[jesus_of_suburbia]

9. Thank you for your post.. there are far too many apologists on this board

who don't give a fuck about animal torture.


Cock fighting, Dog fighting, fur industry, and just general apathy towards animal cruelty.

It sickens me.. they sound like Freepers.

[bluedawg12]

11. Troture should sicken us all animal or human-

and we have discussed human torture here often.

Discussing and condemning of animal abuse and torture, especially gruesome mistreatment of domesticated companion pets is non-negotiable.

[hyphenate]

29. I know there are

many who grew up in such a way that they just can't empathize with animals. Many of those who grew up rurally hunt or worked with "food" animals. It's really difficult for me, and for many who didn't grow up in such a way, to put myself in their shoes, but this is simply a different way of looking at things. It's tough, but perhaps someday, we will be able to see what motivates those who look at something completely differently. Neither way is wrong, just different.

[Contrary1]

27. My dog was tortured...

He and my other dog got loose one afternoon from our fenced in back yard. I had taken my mother for dialysis treatment. We were having our house sided, and when the workers left; they did not latch the gate.

When I was about a half mile from home, I found one of the dogs running down the middle of the street, Mikey was nowhere to be found. I drove around for a couple hours looking, but no luck.

About four hours later, he found his way back. He had a long length of a tweed belt around his neck. He seemed very tired, but otherwise ok. It was later that my daughter noticed the fur on his forehead moving when he exhaled.

We rushed him to an all night animal hospital. He had a puncture wound just above and between his eyes. So deep, that it had penetrated his sinus cavity. Head xrays also showed that he had been shot multiple times with a BB gun, or something similar. There were pellets behind his eyes, in the roof of his mouth, in his ears, and up his nostrils. The vet said that it would have taken two people to do that to him.

It was too risky to go after the pellets, but they were able to repair the sinus with some sort of plastic filler. He lived a few years after that, but was never the same.

I knocked on doors, and asked if anyone had seen anything. One man was so angered by what had happened to my dog, he offered to accompany me.

I believe that if I had found the scum bags that night, I would most likely be in prison now.

[hyphenate]

31. My sincerest empathy

about Mikey. I understand, and am glad you were able to have him for some time after the incident. If it were recently, I would have told you to take heart--in another post, I mentioned Forgotten Felines, where the kitten Adam was subjected to torture. In his case, there was a happier ending, but the teenaged girls who were involved were prosecuted and punishment rendered. It seems more and more that such cases are getting attention, and that punishment is being made. Even ten years ago, I don't think it would have been accomplished.

[lonestarnot]

32. Wish someone had seen or heard something!

:grr:

[spanone]

30. People who harm or torture people should be punished

[flvegan]

35. But not those who harm or torture animals?

I agree with your initial statement, though.

[Vektor]

43. They are.

And those who torture animals deserve no lesser punishment.

Sick and cruel is sick and cruel, regardless of the species of the victim.

[BreweryYardRat]

41. No arguments here.

Although I probably go further than anyone else on this board when it comes to defining said punishment.

[Vektor]

44. I'm right there with you.

We may be neck and neck there.

;-)

[Vektor]

42. Punished harshly. I can't agree more.

Animal rights - HUGELY important issue to me.

I'd have no qualms about seeing equally harsh laws applied to those who harm animals as those who harm humans. It takes a rare breed of dangerous and sick to be inclined to hurt an animal.

[hyphenate]

50. I would say that day is coming

As I mention in another answering post, we've come a long way in thirty years, and if the trend continues, we might have pretty good laws before too long. Not likely not in my lifetime, but within a fifty year span. At least that would be what we can work toward.

[Maine-ah]

48. what did Mittens do?

I missed that somewhere. When did he get nailed for animal abuse? Damn, I'm so out of the loop!

[hyphenate]

49. Put his family dog on the roof

of his car when he took the family vacationing. I would consider that significant in terms of cruelty.

One article about it: http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1638065,00.html