Do we actually know that the icasualties figures are accurate?

[Smith_3]

www.icasualties.org

I keep wondering about that. It says "Deaths confirmed by the DoD". So how do we know the DoD tells the truth?

[Windy]

1. from what I understand, the only deaths the DOD counts as being war related are those that occur

in Iraq. The figures don't include those who later died in the hospitals they were airlifted to for treatment.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

3. Not true.

In fact, if you look at page one of the fatalities listing (God how I hate saying that) you'll see there's one listed who died at Bethesda.

[WoodrowFan]

5. not true

That's not true. It does include those who died of the wounds elsewhere. We've been through this issue with this site before on the DU many times. Families of soldiers who died from wounds suffered in Iraq use this site and they keep the DOD honest.

[alcibiades_mystery]

11. Totally false

Your understanding is not correct. DoD confirms all deaths that were CAUSED by action in theater, including those that take place in the US, even month later.

[Dhalgren]

22. That is what they are supposed to do and you assume that they do so.

You have no way of knowing that they are doing so, or that they are doing so accurately. You trust them. When they tell you that this is what they are doing, you believe them. Some people will no longer believe anything the DoD says...

[MonkeyFunk]

27. The families of those who've died

would certainly notice their loved ones not being listed.

[alcibiades_mystery]

30. This never occurs to the conspiracists

[alcibiades_mystery]

29. No, I don't trust them at all

It is simply impossible for them do hide casualties given the transparency of the thing. Impossible.

Feel free to describe a scenario that is even remotely plausible.

But your premise is totally wrong. I don't trust them at all. That's why I'm glad there's icasualties. I don't need to trust the DOD to believe the casualty count. An independent source is tracking them.

[onenote]

17. I don't know how long you've been posting here, but that lie has been debunked dozens of times

So either you're new, not paying attention, or just lying through your teeth.

[MonkeyFunk]

26. how many times has that lie been debunked here?

200? 400?

[bluerum]

2. i don't believe a word that comes from them, or any of the bushites.

In the dictionary, right next to "lying POS," there is a picture of georgie bush with that moronic smirk across his face.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

4. icasualties are bushites?

That'll come as news to them.

[bluerum]

9. I am referring to the pentagon statistic disseminaters. How they arrive

at the figures that they provide to the civilian world, and the accuracy of those figures, is in my mind, questionable at best.

I have similar distrust for any and all economic data that is spewed from the buSHITe white house onto the msm.

[alcibiades_mystery]

16. How so?

Please expand on your point.

[bluerum]

20. Expand on my distrust for them? I don't trust them. What else is there to say. eom

[alcibiades_mystery]

24. You said

"How they arrive at the figures that they provide to the civilian world, and the accuracy of those figures, is in my mind, questionable at best."

Why is it questionable? Because you distrust them, as a general principle? That's it?

[bluerum]

31. They have proven time and time agin, that they are not trustworthy.

If they want my trust they have to earn it.

So yes, nowadays, general principle.

Anything else?

[alcibiades_mystery]

33. Nothing else

You are without anything resembling evidence, so I take it you don't have an argument to provide anyway. Just your gut feeling. All hail bluerum's truthiness.

[bluerum]

39. Please,,, no groveling.

[alcibiades_mystery]

41. Making sense in your responses helps

I know it must be hard, but please try.

[bluerum]

44. Don't wear out that soap box. Someone else may want to use it.

[Dhalgren]

6. We don't know that the DoD is telling the truth.

As a matter of fact, the best money is on they are lying most of the time. You simply cannot believe the DoD, period. My gut feeling is that these "confirmed" numbers are less than half the real number and probably less than a third. You cannot say that "we would know if that many more had died" - as I have heard others say when this topic is brought up. "They couldn't hide that many deaths, we'd hear about them." The report that came out a couple weeks ago about the thousands and thousands of active duty suicides over the last couple of years - we hadn't heard about those, not in those numbers, and they have been going on for years! Also those deaths are not included into the Iraq casualty list.

We have to face it, we don't know what the hell is going on. We are fat, complacent rubes, looking to be fooled and begging to get screwed. We are too stupid a people to sustain a democracy...we don't deserve one...

[onenote]

18. Your gut is telling you things that make so little sense, you need to get it checked

[Toots]

7. You have pretty much put the Bush* Legacy in a nutshell

Can anybody believe anything they say? :shrug: Most dishonest Administration/Cabal in my lifetime..

[leftofthedial]

8. we're pretty sure the DoD numbers are not accurate

they are systematically understated

[Orsino]

10. Uh-huh. But keeping track of the deaths they will *admit* to...

...is still useful as a barometer of...something.

[leftofthedial]

12. its a little better barometer than, say, the cabal's economic statistics,

which are manufactured out of whole cloth and *barely* even reflect gross trends in the economy

[Orsino]

14. Yeah. Knowing exactly what they think they have to lie about is useful. n/t

[onenote]

19. and you're sure of this based on what evidence?

oh wait, I know. You don't have any.

[leftofthedial]

38. I've read reports indicating that the numbers of casualties transported from theater

into hospitals in germany vastly exceeds the number of reported casualties.

the numbers treated stateside also do not match--or more accurately, mismatch in the expected way--with casualty reports.

we also know that the definitions of combat casualties excludes those, for example, wounded in the back or includes only those wounded in certain types of attacks or in the execution of certain categories of operations.

I've also read that deaths of non-citizen soldiers are not reported or are underreported.

[onenote]

42. link to any of these "reports" ?

I'm not holding my breath.

[BadgerLaw2010]

13. So people just die and their families never say anything? This conspiracy is offensive.

It's been debunked about a dozen times, but that doesn't stop people from reposting it.

[alcibiades_mystery]

15. I didn't even want to bother with this thread: Thanks for that!

Yes, the notion that soldiers are dying but not publicly listed is just boneheaded. If it was only a few, then the DoD wouldn't bother; if it was a lot, then it would be noticed. In either case, it makes no sense.

[bluerum]

21. Why is "the notion" boneheaded? The pentagon and the buSHITe administration

have much to gain by lying.

And I do not doubt for a second that they would do it.

[alcibiades_mystery]

25. I have no doubt they WOULD do it

The question is whether they COULD do it.

It's boneheaded because nobody ever provides an explanation of how they could do it that seems even remotely plausible. You can scream all day that you distrust them. Yeah. Join the club. Who doesn't? I distrust neighborhood burglars, too, but that doesn't mean I think they can fly.

[bluerum]

32. Deception and misdirection is a part of a soldiers job. Our army is good at it.

Our president is a liar.

How do you expect people to react?

[karlrschneider]

34. I guess if your son "disappeared" in Iraq but was not listed, you would just assume

he was taking a well-earned secred vacation somewhere in the middle east? Jeezusfuckingchrist some people are REALLY goddamn dumb.
:eyes:

[NNN0LHI]

36. If the DoD told me my sons life may be dependent on me keeping my mouth shut I wouldn't say anything

I still don't think they are fudging the numbers of killed. Numbers of wounded is an entirely another thing though.

Don

[karlrschneider]

37. Sure I understand that but how -long- would you stay quiet? Agree about the wounded though.

Much easier to manipulate.

[Dhalgren]

23. No one is saying that each dead soldier isn't publicly listed. What is

being said is that the counts are wrong. You could go to every newspaper in every town in every county in every state and tally up all of the dead and my guess would be that the number would be considerably higher than the 4000 or so listed as "official". That is the point. There is no outside entity that is keeping track of these things or that is capable of keeping track. We will know the true numbers at some point, I just don't think that we know now...

[alcibiades_mystery]

28. Actually, that's precisely what icasualties does

The counts are not wrong. They are correct.

And if you think you can find one dead soldier in the "newspapers in every town" that does not also appear in the icasualties list as confirmed by the DoD, go do it.

NOBODY has been able to find EVEN ONE. Nobody. But feel free to expose this massive conspiracy any time you want to put the work in. All you need to do is find ONE.

[karlrschneider]

35. And we wonder why and bitch when the freepers call us morons.

:eyes:

[Dhalgren]

40. I've always known why you would be called one.

:eyes:

[onenote]

43. thank you.

The idiocy of those who are convinced --without any fact and against all logic --that there are thousands of hidden fatalties -- is astounding to me.