“I believe that it is torture, very exquisite torture.”

[Swamp Rat]

Torture's Terrible Toll
By Senator John McCain
Newsweek

25 November 2005 issue

(snip)

"For instance, there has been considerable press attention to a tactic called "waterboarding," where a prisoner is restrained and blindfolded while an interrogator pours water on his face and into his mouth-causing the prisoner to believe he is being drowned. He isn't, of course; there is no intention to injure him physically. But if you gave people who have suffered abuse as prisoners a choice between a beating and a mock execution, many, including me, would choose a beating. The effects of most beatings heal. The memory of an execution will haunt someone for a very long time and damage his or her psyche in ways that may never heal. In my view, to make someone believe that you are killing him by drowning is no different than holding a pistol to his head and firing a blank. I believe that it is torture, very exquisite torture."

(snip)

http://www.truthout.org/docs_2005/111305Y.shtml



H.R.2082
Title: To authorize appropriations for fiscal year 2008 for intelligence and intelligence-related activities of the United States Government, the Community Management Account, and the Central Intelligence Agency Retirement and Disability System, and for other purposes.

(snip)

(Sec. 327) Prohibits any individual under the custody or control of an IC element, regardless of nationality or physical location, from being subject to any treatment or technique of interrogation not authorized by the U.S. Army Field Manual on Human Intelligence Collector Operations.

(snip)

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d110:HR02082:@@@D&summ2=m&

U.S. Senate Roll Call Votes 110th Congress - 2nd Session

H.R. 2082 (Intelligence Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2008)

McCain (R-AZ), Nay

http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=110&session=2&vote=00022

____________________________________________________________________________________________________

Why the 'nay' vote, John McCain?

Are there other 'enhanced techniques' you'd like for the CIA to use?

So, severe sleep and sensory deprivation, hypothermia, stress positions, threats of violence to the detainee's family are not 'exquisite torture' techniques?

Are those techniques of which you approve?

[stellanoir]

1. It's legalized sadism, is completely inhumane,

and serves absolutely no purpose whatsoever.

Most would admit to anything under those circumstances. That these issues have even entered the national dialogue is utterly reprehensible to me.

"exquisite torture" Sheesh and I thought "extreme rendition" was a really lame term. This takes it to a whole other level of derangement.

We'll get past this crap over time.

[Swamp Rat]

2. Président McCain de Sade

Image that man taking Bushler's place in the Imperial Presidency.

[bdamomma]

14. right on swampy, let's not imagine McCain getting in.

that is a scary thought.:scared:

[Voice for Peace]

19. Really strange choice of adjective to describe torture

[zanne]

6. McCain has a losing message...

Been there, done that. Unless, of course, another invasion or attack is planned.

[countryjake]

3. That is one hellish scary picture you've made there!

Just like the monsters who know how awful such torture can be, but vote to allow it anyway.

McCain reminds me of Gollum when he says, "my friends"

....yeeesss, my precious, ooooo preccciouss, my preeeccccioussssss.


Jeez Louisa, Swampy, that graphic is freaky.

[Swamp Rat]

9. "my friends... my friends... my friends... my friends"

Every other minute of every speech... "my friends." What a control freak! :freak:

[WillParkinson]

4. Putting a gun to their head and firing a blank?

Can still kill. Jon Erik Hexum died from that, I believe.

[SalmonChantedEvening]

5. Gotta keep your masters entertained John.

They seem to delight in it's use, and you DO serve at the pleas...

"The effects of most beatings HEAL" ?!?!?!? :wtf:

There are sick men at the helm of this nation. :grr:


Excellent new piece Holmes

:hi: :hug:

[tavalon]

8. Small defense of McCain, something he'd best not get used to

He was saying that between a beating or a mock death, he would take the beating rather than the death threat because of the emotional toll of both. As a survivor of childhood torture and abuse, I concur, beatings were preferable to the terror for one's life. I spent much of my healing time in therapy around the more amorphous but more damaging emotional abuse, under which any technique that makes you believe you are about to die fits.

I would prefer a beating to some of the exquisite mind fucks in which I was convinced I would die at my captors hands. May this br the last time I actually agree with this lying fossil.

[countryjake]

16. I think most who've survived vicious beatings would agree...

and I also would not choose to bring McCain down with that former sentiment of his - "The effects of most beatings HEAL". I was pretty astounded when he said such a thing and wondered back then if he would stand firm in condemning the lifelong effects of such methods as water boarding.

It's just the fact that he has so rapidly backpedaled on his position that makes me now feel he was most likely just talking thru his ass back in 2005, when he was opposed to the "exquisite" torture of water boarding. The man is an opportunist who is designing his principles as he goes along. And worse, one who most likely knows thru personal experience how destructive such torture can be to a person, but now thinks some humans deserve that type of treatment. Much worse than any right wingers who support it, but haven't a clue what horrors are involved. He is a sadist.

[tavalon]

17. I think he's certainly an opportunist and could well be an abuser himself

Sadist seems a bit strong to me. That said, I won't get into an argument over it. I don't support the man at all.

[countryjake]

18. Well, I don't argue that either, I was only agreeing with your original post...

as someone who also knows about physical pain vs. psychological torture. If you can stomach it, take a listen to some of the guy's speeches these days...he sure doesn't sound like the guy that Swampy quoted up there, anymore; he goes on about the "evil" we face in the WOT and sounds like he's now out for some perverted revenge and a total control over our "enemies".

I wouldn't trust the man as far as I could spit now and I used to halfway respect him, back when he was swift boated by the Rovian cabal. Sure he's a politician and I think all politicians lie to get where they want to be, but the word he's putting forward now to convince the right wing that he's "worthy" of their support surely can't be improving the heartless image the USA has earned in the conflagration of the Middle East and the rest of the Muslim world.

[Swamp Rat]

11. Thanks SCE

:hi: :hug:

[DeeDeeNY]

7. He is a sadly empty shell of a man pretending to be moral

[L. Coyote]

12. What a photo! Perfect for the Fall campaign. "If you love Bush too, You will love John"

:rofl:

[tavalon]

13. That is one of two pictures that makes this campaign,

dead campaign walking. The other is the cake picture while New Orleans drowned. None of the Republican candidates had a chance and these two pictures (I suppose a third in Baghdad should round it out) will make his campaign a non starter. Picking Huckabee as his running mate, as he must, will be the final straw. Obviously we must be vigilant against the fraud, but I have said it before and I will say it again, if we were running a turnip this fall, come January, that turnip would be Mr. Or Madame President.

We needn't worry about a massive Republican turn out this Fall as they are incredibly demoralized, as they should be.

[grace0418]

10. Why the nay vote? Because he'll say or do anything to get what he wants.

Why people characterize him as a "maverick" with "character" is totally beyond me. And when I say "people" I don't mean DUers. Everyone here knows the truth about that fucker.

[Ichingcarpenter]

15. Here's why.

I consider McCain a hypocritical slime.

Nominate thread BTW

[Swamp Rat]

21. I have more respect for slime.

:hi:

[Donnachaidh]

20. "exquisite torture" -- WTF? Does anyone else smell black leather?

And paddles? :evilgrin:

Wonder if Johnny boy is into a bit of the old *slap and tickle*?

[Swamp Rat]

22. LOL!

:evilgrin: