God I hate these fucking clowns.Jackson and Sharpton

[ls317]

As a 40 year old african american male,we spoke about this today at work

I'm calling for Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton, the president and vice president of Black America, to step down. Their leadership is stale. Their ideas are outdated. And they don't give a crap about us.
We need to take a cue from America and re-elect our leadership every four years. Folks realize that power corrupts. That's why they placed term limits on the presidency. They know if you leave a man in power too long he quits looking out for the interest of his constituency and starts looking out for his own best interest. We've turned Jesse and Al into Supreme Court justices. They get to speak for us for a lifetime. Why?

If judged by the results they've produced the last 20 years, you'd have to regard their administration as a total failure. Seriously, compared to Martin and Malcolm and the freedoms and progress their leadership produced, Jesse and Al are an embarrassment.
Their job the last two decades was to show black people how to take advantage of the opportunities Martin (Luther King) and Malcolm won .
Have we at the level we should have? no


None of this over-the-top grandstanding does Black America any good. We can't win the war over verbal disrespect and racism when we have so obviously and blatantly surrendered the moral high ground on the issue. . But the war? We don't stand a chance in the war.

If we are unwilling to clean up the filth and disrespect we heap on each other, nothing will change with our condition country, and our incarceration rate, fatherless-child rate, illiteracy rate and murder rate will still continue to skyrocket. A man who doesn't respect himself wastes his breath demanding that others respect him. We don't respect ourselves right now. If we did, we wouldn't call each other the N-word. If we did, we wouldn't let people with prison values define who we are in music and videos. If we did, we wouldn't call black women bitches and hos and abandon them when they have our babies. If we had the proper level of self-respect, we wouldn't act like it's only a crime when a white man disrespects us. That's a (freaking) shame.

We need leadership that is interested in fixing the culture we've adopted. We need leadership that makes all of us take tremendous pride in educating ourselves. We need leadership that can reach professional athletes and entertainers and get them to understand that they’re ambassadors and play an important role in defining who we are and what values our culture will embrace.

It's time for Jesse and Al to step down. They've had 25 years to lead us. Other than their accountants, I'd be hard pressed to find someone who has benefited from their administration.

[MonkeyFunk]

1. Why can't people here

ever express differences with Democrats without resorting to the most base name-calling?

Jesse Jackson is a very admirable man, who's done a lot for our party and our country. Can't you disagree with him without calling him a fucking clown?

[ls317]

4. Lets see

Jackson claimed that Dr King died in his arms,,,but he didnt he died in the arms of Dr Ralph Abernathy.

Duke lacrosse case...( they came into action quickly when thought they had a payday what happened once the case fell apart?). Tawana brawley.He uses race relations for personal gain.


I understand you disagree with me, but those two have set back the black community ages

[MonkeyFunk]

19. Nonetheless

why can't you criticize them without calling them "fucking clowns"? Are you incapable of reasoned debate?

[Lex Talionis]

53. BINGO! Glad you pointed that out.

They are opportunist who use the power of low expatiations to play white and black against each other. Respects to you, sir.

[Jamastiene]

8. Good point.

It would do many people well to remember he was right there working his butt off in the civil rights movement. It's true that people can disagree with him and with Sharpton without calling them nasty names.

[blueknight]

10. they are liars

and extortionist. the op is correct. they need to go away

[leftofcool]

2. You make some good points

but I don't think Al and Jesse have as much cred as they used to. Malcom is a hero in our house

[Fredda Weinberg]

3. Let me stand up for my political opponents. Those machines gave

jobs to thousands ... some of them your parents. Those accountants saw $$$ diverted, yes, but that's the nature of machines. The benefit everyone, wastefully - but there is no alternative to the mainstream after the end of legal segregation.

I welcome my cohort of African Americans. I was a victim of violence in the 60's and didn't deserve it. Sharpton doesn't help, but he is certainly not the worst and Jesse Jackson finds us enviable, if not friendly.

So we can embrace @ DU and however this silly season turns out, rejoice that we'll never face off in the streets again.

[ls317]

5. They just look for a payday.

[Fredda Weinberg]

6. That too ... and a payday is necessary. Back in the day, they

were necessary - and an educated generation is the result.

[aquart]

9. You know what?

So Jackson lied about King dying in his arms. DO YOU GET THAT HE MARCHED BESIDE HIM? In the days when every one of them was a target for a bullet or a beating or a noose?

He hasn't lived the life of a perfect saint. He has opinions I could hit him for.

But for a forty-year-old who daily reaps the benefits of that man's raw courage to be so carping, so ...Jackson is out of style and yesterday's news...

Ugh. Just ugh.

[ls317]

17. Not Good

My question is why would you lie about something that serious? Lets see... Shirley Chisom,Megar Evars Jack Tanner... The Greensboro four...They brought a true passion to the table.Not personal gain for their bottom line
Reaps the benfits... hmm lets see.. Jackson didn't pay for my college I paid for it myself out of my own pocket..My mother raised four children all who have college degrees.. without the gift or grant or aid...Jackson and Sharpton are currently out of the news cycle because there is nothing on the agenda where they can restart the clock for themselves..Lets look at Don Imus...First of all I don't like Imus and never had.. But why did MSNBC get rid of him because they expected a bunch of heat because of what he said.And he got the masses all lathered up quickly.Yes what he said was wrong and he shouldn't have said it, but its ok to be said in Rap music whats the difference.Have you listened to rap music lately???

[KG]

7. Jesse and Al to blame for the lack of black progess in the last 25 years?

really?

and if they are such failures, surely you have a few black leaders in mind to step up and take their place, right?


'Emancipate yourselves from mental slavery; None but ourselves can free our minds.'

[ls317]

15. Yes

It all starts at home, not a generation of kids having kids with no life skills!

[Lydia Leftcoast]

23. Jesse Jackson was talking against "babies having babies" (his exact phrase)

when you were a teenager yourself.

[ls317]

33. ?

Didnt he have a child with someone else that wasnt his wife that he basically bought off?

[Lydia Leftcoast]

34. His ladyfriend wasn't a teenager

Who's bringing in irrelevant points now?

And Jackson was criticizing the idea of thirteen-year-olds having children back in the 1980s. You may be too young to remember.

[ls317]

36. He was married

He was married at the time and the child was not with his wife.And it was funny that he attempted to give bill clinton advice on the Monica matter

[Lydia Leftcoast]

38. OK, I get it

You're just determined to hate Jackson and Sharpton, and you don't want to be confused with facts.

No one ever said they were angels.

But you're exemplifying my grandmother's Old Country proverb, "If you want to beat a dog, you can always find a stick."

[KG]

28. Jesse and Al are supposed to raise every black child?

you really haven't thought this through, have you?

Jesse and Al opened doors. how is it their fault if the rest of black america cant' be bothered to walk through them?

[ls317]

47. As a matter of fact

Yes I do have some leaders to step and take there place.Mother,Father,Grandmother,Grandfather,Aunt,Uncle..coach pastor rev. Family member that can make a difference.

[Yossariant]

11. Sick of this kind of ignorant crap. They stood up when it was unpopular to stand up.

Demanding perfection from humans is juvenile, at best, and will always result in disappointment.

Ya let the MSM define them --- and you.

Shame.

[zbdent]

12. that subject line gives a baaaaaaad mental image ...

[LWolf]

13. I think they're fine.

I like them both better than the current contender. :shrug:

[Ordr]

14. Excellent post.

Those men are abject frauds and are causing more dissension among races than they are doing to solve it.

[RB TexLa]

16. I'm sure they will when people stop supporting their organizations and endeavors

[KeepItReal]

18. The NYPD, some racists in Jena, LA and Jasper, TX and the U.S. Navy agree with you

I could care less what these men do to hold Corporate America accountable for racial disparities in the workplace (that is supposed to be the Equal Employment Opportunities Commission's (EEOC) job - how's that working out under Bush & Co?).

However, I think you, "40 year old african american male" may have an attitude adjustment if you:

A) Get shot dozens of times by the NYPD while unarmed
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sean_Bell)

OR

B) End up being anally raped with a toilet plunger by the same NYPD
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abner_Louima)

OR

C) Get tied to and dragged by a pickup truck until dead
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Byrd_Jr.)

OR

D) Have a noose hung on a tree at your old High School
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jena_Six)

OR

E) Have the U.S. Navy bombing the hell out of your island home possibly raising cancer rates (and definitely accidentally killing folks)
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Navy-Vieques_protests)


Would you *still* hate Mr. Jackson OR Mr. Sharpton as they showed up with the media in tow to protest those kind of injustices, too?


p.s.
I personally didn't care one whit about Al Sharpton until I lived/worked in NYC pre-911 and saw that he was basically the only voice on TV news pushing hard for accountability from the NYPD as they sometimes ran wild under Guliani - same with the Vieques issue. No one else had brought attention, much less results like he did.

[Ordr]

20. Sure, they have done a few good things.

But they also are liars, fame-seekers, and race-baiters. I am certain that they would not be taking up these causes if they didn't get press for them. Lets see them take on the issue of black-on-black violence with a little more than rhetoric and blame-pushing.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

22. Why don't YOU take it up if you're so concerned about it?

:eyes:

[Ordr]

24. "Why don't YOU take it up if you're so concerned about it?"

Diversionary nonsense.
I am calling them out as frauds and liars who are more willing to push their personal agendas than to tackle the massive, less glamorous (less TV time) issues that plague the communities they claim to care about.
That also makes them hypocrites.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

26. They were dealing with those issues before you were born, I bet

Why are you expecting them to solve every issue in the black community?

I'm seriously asking you. If you are so concerned about black-on-black crime, what are YOU doing to stop it, instead of blaming two national figures for not dealing with your favorite issue?

It's like blaming the Sierra Club for not stopping the Iraq War.

[Ordr]

29. Favorite issue?

Interesting.

"I'm seriously asking you. If you are so concerned about black-on-black crime, what are YOU doing to stop it"
I'm calling out two frauds who have somehow assumed the titles of "black leaders" who, in fact, do nothing whatsoever to help the black community with a devastating problem.

"It's like blaming the Sierra Club for not stopping the Iraq War."
Not really.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

37. You're the one who brought up the issue

If you're so concerned, do something about it. Otherwise, you're just full of sound and fury signifying nothing.

Tell me about the inner city kids you're mentoring.

[Ordr]

41. Keep it up.

More diversion.
Very typical of their adherents.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

43. Diversion?

:rofl:

You guys are too much!

I've been warned by the moderators against saying what I know to be true about this thread, but let's just say that I've been here since 2001, and I've seen this many times.

[Ordr]

44. "I've seen this many times"

What might that be? :)

[Lydia Leftcoast]

45. Oh, no, you're not going to catch Lydia in that trap

No way. I haven't survived here for seven years being stupid.

[Ordr]

46. Ah well.

Can't fault a guy for trying :).

[DaDooRonRon]

51. It's the dreaded "Directional Mis-Step"

You know, like when you think you're entering a progressive discussion but you've really entered a "win a sheet with eye holes" raffle.

Something like that.

You're not selling the tickets, are you?

[ls317]

42. Not Mentoring

Teacher 12 years .. thinking thats a bit more then mentoring..

[ProfessorGAC]

48. So, That Noble Cause Excuses The Ignobility Of Your OP?

I think not.
The Professor

[High Plains]

49. And who the fuck are you?

[Ordr]

50. "And who the fuck are you?"

I'm Ordr :).
Pleased to meet you.

[KeepItReal]

31. I think they focus on the jacked up Justice System (fixable) vs. Acts of Violence (unfixable)

Make sense?

[Ordr]

32. Make sense?

It absolutely would make sense if they weren't disingenuous and motivated by less than thinly-veiled racism.

[uppityperson]

52. Sounds like you speak from experience. nt

[Lydia Leftcoast]

21. Thank you, KeepItReal!

Where do these slams out of the blue come from?

Neither man has been in the news lately.

It looks like the buppies who owe their success to doors that Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton helped open are joining hands with the racists who never liked the idea of uppity ________s.

I remind the detractors that in 1988, Jesse Jackson was the only candidate who consistently told the truth about Reaganomics and Reagan's military build-up. He even won the Michigan primary, along with some of the ones in majority-Black areas, and got 39% of the vote in Oregon.

If we had followed Jackson or if the other candidates had adopted his positions in 1988, our military wouldn't be in the midst of a five-year continuous war crime right now, and our former manufacturing base wouldn't be in Mexico and China.

I remind the detractors that in 2004, Al Sharpton was the only one who told the truth about the DINOs.

And Mr. Smart-Ass OP, if you think Jackson and Sharpton are outdated, when are YOU going to step up and take a stand against racism and economic injustice, which, in case you've been "too busy" to notice, are still very much around. :grr:

[KeepItReal]

30. You are most welcome.

:hi:

That original post pissed me off.

[ls317]

35. Ok.

First of all Mr Jackson failed out of the seminary at the end of his first year.So how can you call yourself a reverend if you have never finished the seminary.There is normally a two- to three-year process for earning that title Reverend. Jesse Jackson got himself ordained two months after Martin Luther King was shot. It was essentially a political ordination, a shotgun ordination. ... He did not go through this two-year process. He never submitted himself to the authority of the church. He has never had a church himself, and he has been accountable to no one."
It would not be until the year 2000 that Jackson received his Master of Divinity degree from Chicago. By that time, his son --Congressman Jesse Jackson, Jr. - was on the board of the seminary. The younger Jackson had earned his M.A. in theology from that same institution a decade earlier.
Jackson embezzled money from SCLC... In 1971 or 1972..Thats how operation PUSH got started.

[KeepItReal]

40. So now your beef is with his title? Embezzlement in 1971?

Anybody can call themselves Reverend, Pastor, Bishop or Archbishop nowadays. That ain't news.

If he did embezzlement in 1971 - that is a crime right? - was he arrested and charged? Or did the SCLC punish him themselves?

Keep trying...

[Name removed]

25. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Seeking Serenity]

27. I can admire what they, particularly Jackson (less so Sharpton), have done

in the past, while still agreeing with the OP that they have overstayed their welcome.

Admire them for their past achievements, but now move on.

In many ways, the old civil rights struggle was easier than the problems faced now. There were laws in place, laws that could be (and were) changed as public attitudes changed. And attitudes generally have changed (yes, there are still pockets of that raw racism, but nothing like it used to be).

The problems facing the African-American community today are much deeper, much more personal, and in many ways much more intractable. Macro changes (i.e. eliminating Jim Crow, expanding opportunities once denied, etc.) have largely been and continue to be accomplished. The micro changes (broken homes, single parentage, anti-intellectualism, black-on-black crime) are harder, and JJ and AS never really try to address those (at least not in a public way). Is that because there is not as much money in that? I'll let you decide; I don't know. I do know that when one man tried to address some of the pathologies within the AA community, he was roundly castigated. I found that disheartening.

In many ways, the old civil rights leaders are as ossified as the second-wave feminists in that they are both still trying to fight the old battles with the old weapons and tactics. It's well past time for some new leaders with new weapons and new tactics to fight the new problems.

[devilgrrl]

39. I'm a big fan of Angela Davis myself.

Cornel West too.

Michael Eric Dyson...

[deaniac21]

54. There is no one in this world that can shake down a

corporation like Jesse Jackson!