Why we won't get health care -- NO MATTER WHO WINS!

[immoderate]

The Next Failure of Health Care Reform <==link

By Vicente Navarro, CounterPunch. Posted March 14, 2008.

<snip>

The insurance and pharmaceutical industries enjoy the highest rates of profit in the U.S. Just last year, insurance industry profits reached $12 billion, and pharmaceutical industry profits $49 billion, the highest in the U.S. and in the world. According to Fortune Magazine, health-related industries are among the most profitable industries in the country. A lot of money is being made from people's suffering. This scandalous situation is easy to document. For example, lanzoprasol, a gastric secretion reducing medicine widely used in the U.S., costs $329 in Baltimore, U.S.A.; the same medicine (same number of doses) costs $9 in Barcelona, Spain!

<snip>

According to the Center for Responsive Politics, the insurance industry has contributed $525,188 to Hillary Clinton, $414,863 to Barack Obama, and $274,724 to John McCain. As a consequence, not one of the candidates is asking for a publicly funded system. The major players in medical care in the U.S. -- insurance companies, drug companies, professional associations, etc. (the list is long) -- have given a lot of money to the candidates.

This is an article to bookmark and send around. :cry:

--IMM

[justinsb]

1. That's probably a good thing though

What is being proposed isn't national health care - it's national insurance, which amounts to a hugh, massive, legally enforceable, public subsidy for insurance companies.

What you want is single payer.

[immoderate]

3. That's what I mean.

It's a bad system now. What the candidates want is to make it a compulsory bad system.

--IMM

[LSK]

4. well if they were similar to the Edwards plan, thats not true either

Edwards plan would setup a Medicare for all system that would compete with the other plans out there. The theory is the cheaper and more efficient Medicare system would use the marketplace to drive the insurance companies out of business.

[immoderate]

6. Edwards was my choice. But he (and his plan) are gone.

If you read the article, you'll see that was proposed by candidate Bill Clinton. But he was bought off. Obama proposed it too, but now says he was misunderstood.

--IMM

[truedelphi]

10. Such proposals cost the tax payer at least 50 % more than they need to

They mean that we need to set up an intermediary group to deal with the insuring private companies, etc. Of course, then there are all the related costs.

in a world wherein the CEO of just one Health Care system earns as much as the combined salaries of 2200 employees at a community hospital, the costs are not only astronomical, but senseless. Except of course for the fact that it is the campaign contributions of the CEO's that keep the candidates funded.

We need to have a President who on Day One will say, "If we can put a man on the moon, we can follow Denmark's lead, and institute immediately an national health CARE PROGRAm that will be written on three to four pages of text, and include every citizen in this country full rights to health insurance, simply through the individual furnishing the ir Social Security number.

Why did I have access to FULL medical benefits while a down and out welfare mom, and now have NO HEALTH insurance, even though I have been productive for the last twenty years of my life?

Why do prisoners in jail for heinous crimes have FULL medical and dental health care, and newly arrived immigrants?

But America's middle income class, once they are labeled with "Previously existing conditions" are allowed to die in the emergency room because of no health insurance.

[LSK]

2. that is not entirely accurate

http://www.opensecrets.org/pres08/contribmethod.asp?ID=N00009638&Cycle=2008

Why (and How) We Use Donors’ Employer/Occupation Information

The organizations listed as "Top Contributors" reached this list for one of two reasons: either they gave through a political action committee sponsored by the organization, or individuals connected with the organization contributed directly to the candidate.

Under federal law, all contributions over $200 must be itemized and the donor’s occupation and employer must be requested and disclosed, if provided. The Center uses that employer/occupation information to identify the donor’s economic interest. We do this in two ways:

*

First, we apply a code to the contribution, identifying the industry. Totals for industries (and larger economic sectors) can be seen in each candidate and race profile, and in the Industry Profile section of the OpenSecrets website.
*

Second, we standardize the name of the donor’s employer. If enough contributions came in from people connected with that same employer, the organization’s name winds up on the Top Contributor list.

Of course, it is impossible to know either the economic interest that made each individual contribution possible or the motivation for each individual giver. However, the patterns of contributions provide critical information for voters, researchers and others. That is why Congress mandated that candidates and political parties request employer information from contributors and publicly report it when the contributor provides it.

In some cases, a cluster of contributions from the same organization may indicate a concerted effort by that organization to “bundle” contributions to the candidate. In other cases—both with private companies and with government agencies, non-profits and educational institutions—the reason for the contributions may be completely unrelated to the organization.

Showing these clusters of contributions from people associated with particular organizations provides a valuable—and unique—way of understanding where a candidate is getting his or her financial support. Knowing those groups is also useful after the election, as issues come before Congress and the administration that may affect those organizations and their industries.

[immoderate]

5. I think the point is that the medical establishment gives huge donations to ALL the candidates.

So the fix will be in and reform will not happen. I don't see where your post contradicts that.

--IMM

[LSK]

12. did you read the link???

If the cleaning lady at Aetna donates $200 to Obama, that goes down as a contribution from the Insurance industries. Does that mean Obama is now caving to the interests of Aetna because of contributions from cleaning ladies?

[immoderate]

26. That's your explanation?

The cleaning ladies at Aetna independently gave $200 each to the Obama campaign and want nothing for it? Cleaning ladies are well known to hate single payer health plans, and have nothing better to do with their disposable cash.

And the executives and investors gave... oh... nothing!

--IMM

[SammyWinstonJack]

7. K&R

[Buzz Clik]

8. Kick!

[Froward69]

9. Oh yeah

Thats why I was for Biden in the first place... :grr: :banghead:

[melody]

11. Now we're no longer the #1 world economy, maybe we can stop paying to be world police and do this

I think all bets are off the table now -- I actually think we have a very good shot at single-payer.

[Lasher]

13. We're not going to stop being world police just yet.

We do not learn from even recent history. Before we stop flushing our resources down the Military-Industrial/PNAC toilet we need to bankrupt our country some more so that we collapse just like the USSR.

[melody]

14. I think the people may force the issue and ask the important unasked question

"We're paying to supposedly protect people who can afford to give their citizens WHAT?"

When that happens, the MI/PNAC people and their global buds will have unleashed something they won't be able to
put back.

[Lasher]

15. I hope you're right.

But I don't think you are, at least not just yet.

Think about it. Larry Kudlow will be on TV this evening. He will continue to squeal about how all we really need is more and more tax cuts for rich people, because that's worked out so well so far and anything bad about today's economy is the fault of Jimmy Carter or John F. Kennedy. By now it should be painfully obvious to the average rock that this lameass has never been anything but an enabler for the wealthy elite who have been stealing the rest of us blind.

But if people were appropriately enlightened I would expect to see an angry mob with torches and pitchforks waiting for him when he leaves the studio this evening. When I start seeing things like that I will start to think folks might have finally started to wake up.

[melody]

17. Right now, the bedrock of so-called Republican politics is eroding via capitalism

Go look at the strip-mining going on in the south -- the whole culture being eroded, the rivers poisoned. One thing capitalist economists have always been terrified of is Marxism being widespread in the south because the culture itself is very socialist
once the religious trappings are torn away. Arkansas once had the largest number of Communists anywhere in north America.

The GOP has popularized a lack of trust in government. That coupled with the pain that is going on will create a socialist
revolution in this country unlike anything anyone has ever seen. Not being a socialist, this concerns me as much as the our
right wing era.

[Lasher]

19. You don't have to tell me about strip mining

I've seen it here in West Virginia all my life and soon they're going to do mountaintop removal right across the river from my house, turning a beautiful landscape into an ugly scar that will last for the end of time.

It's true that Republican ideologies are increasingly seen as the failure they truly are. But don't get your hopes up that we'll see a near-universal awareness. The masses are stupid.

[melody]

20. Just like the poisons leak into the water table, the truth seeps into the mind

Sounds a little like the beginning to a weird soap opera, but I think it's nevertheless true.

My southern cousins are very angry and very actively behind Obama (Edwards initially, but now Obama).

[Lasher]

21. But sadly, the water table is more susceptible to influence than are our minds.

Amazing, how stupid some people can be. Just this week I have been in an email war with a genuine neocon, who insists the invasion of Iraq was a good thing and that we should attack Iran at once.

[melody]

22. The polls show they are the minority, however

They're there -- here in California, they are a scorned minority.

[Lasher]

24. Good, give them no quarter.

My hope is that when this November is over there won't be a single Republican left in our state house, and not a single one left in the US Congress. And that they'll all get maced. Plus blackjacked. And that legislation will be passed to make it a federal hate crime to be a member of the GOP.

We in WV have only one member of our US Congressional delegation who is a Republican, Representative Shelly Moore Capito. I would swim a river of snot to help get her defeated this year.

[sarcasmo]

16. The only plans out there benefit big Pharma. Let's do it the Canadian way or Medicare for all.

I prefer Medicare for all, but it will never happen.

[Juche]

18. less than 0.3% of their totals

Obama & Hillary have raised over 140 million each, and about 0.3% comes from people who work in healthcare fields. And as others have said, the 25 year old who works as a nurse and gives $500 to Hillary is considered in that figure.

Obama raises nearly 500k every 6 hours at this point.

[immoderate]

25. OK, so why no single payer plans?

That's what the people seem to want. Why can't they have it? Your theory...?

--IMM

[jazzjunkysue]

23. DingDingDingDingDing! Here. Lies. The. Truth. I wish I could rec it 4000!

All the rest of the discussion is details.

Publicly finded campaigns. That's a true democracy that will represent the people, instead of multi-national corporations.

Thankyou. Keep posting this thread every week! PLEASE!:hug:

[OneBlueSky]

27. does anyone know the answer to this question . . .

given that "insurance industry profits reached $12 billion, and pharmaceutical industry profits $49 billion," what percentage of overall U.S. healthcare spending does this combined $61 billion represent? . . . anyone? . . .