Lynndie England: "Rumsfeld knew" about Abu Ghraib - worse pictures were shown at trial

[sabra]

http://www.stern.de/politik/ausland/614356.html?

Lynndie England "Rumsfeld knew"

She ist one of the faces symbolizing the Iraq war. Pictures showing her abusing Iraqi detainees in Abu Graib prison brought her notorious fame throughout the world. In her first interview in three years Lynndie England talks about Abu Ghraib, about Charles Graner, about guilt, her current life - and the role of the Bush administration.

<snip>

Did you do any water boarding?
No, I didn't. And I didn't witness it. But that doesn't mean it wasn't done. Because a lot of the time the interrogators would take the prisoners into the showers and close the doors and we would have to put like sheets or blankets up over the windows. We could hear what was going on but we couldn't see.

You heard screams?
Yeah. Sometimes.

At the time, were you aware of people being killed while at Abu Ghraib? One of them was the guy they called "The Iceman".
Yeah, I heard about it. Actually, I was there the night the Iceman was killed. I went to Tier One and someone said this guy had been taken to the showers and they had the water running, and you could hear this guy just screaming bloody murder. It got to the point where it was so loud and unbearable that I went back to my room. And the next day when I came back there was this puddle of water outside the shower. And I asked, "What's that from?" And they said, "Oh, its ice from keeping the body till they could transport him." The Iceman was one of the "Ghost Detainees" that officially never existed.

And who took care of him?
The Other Government Agencies.

CIA and FBI. Did they kill the Iceman?
I won't respond to that.

...

The former Secretary of Defense, Donald Rumsfeld, called you and your colleagues the "rotten apples" of the military. Bush claimed to be ashamed of what you did.

Well, back then I thought: How can they say that when it was happening all over Iraq. The same thing is happening in Guantanamo now and other places. We knew that our officers knew about it and our sergeants. We thought if they know then somebody else knows. And I really do still think that Rumsfeld knew what was going on. I mean he had been there while I was there at that prison. And if he was there I know he knew what was going on. How could he have not known? And Bush? He's the headman.


...

There is talk about new pictures that are even harsher than the ones we know.
I know there were some harsher pictures they had at the time of the trial that the media decided not to expose.

What was on those pictures?
You see the dogs biting the prisoners. Or you see bite marks from the dogs. You can see MPs holding down a prisoner so a medic can give him a shot. If those had been made public at the time, then the whole world would have looked at those and not at mine.

[The Stranger]

1. And I just saw a member of this site on another thread affirm that he would engage in this.

I have never been so angry.

[BuyingThyme]

6. Got a link?

I'd like to go over there an say a few things.

[The Stranger]

9. See if this works:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=3023717&mesg_id=3024436

[hisownpetard]

7. Link?

[The Stranger]

10. Try this:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=3023717&mesg_id=3024436

[hisownpetard]

12. Normally, I would say "thank you" for the link, but...

I am totally nauseated, at this point, from what I read there.

I guess it depends on how you define "Idealist."

[Bluebear]

19. Oh, oh

"I am ignoring author of that thread" so I can't see it.

[Hydra]

8. It's unfortunately the truth though

And everything she spoke of is our official policy there.

Most of all, this is our fault for tolerating it. No one of any major pull was disciplined for torturing people so far, and I don't expect that to change.

[uppityperson]

13. War is Hell but that is not an excuse.

Atrocities happen, often, during war situations, during occupations. That does not provide any excuse, but just a realization that they do so war situations, occupations, should NEVER be entered into lightly because this shit happens.

[magellan]

17. The excuses are sickening

Trying to rationalize and legitimize this behavior. :puke:

[ColbertWatcher]

2. It's a damn shamne she's in jail and...

...Rumsfeld, Cheney and Bush are not.


Damn shame.

[quadriga]

3. "I won't respond to that."

Ever the coward.

[Spike89]

4. Maybe, but not because of that

Did you actually read what she said? She wasn't actually there, didn't actually see the Iceman killed. It isn't courageous to make a claim you can't back up. If she was a coward in this context, she would not have indirectly pointed the finger.

She's no hero, but geez there are so many valid things to attack her about, why point out something that she kinda did right?

[noamnety]

5. I hope she has a chance to see the winter soldier videos.

Maybe she's been watching them, maybe she can't, I don't know.

A number of people who testified also posed for trophy photos. It must be very strange for her to see the left hold them up as heroes now. One of them told me a few weeks ago that they'd seen the abu ghraib photos well before they hit the press, they were just passed around like other photos, and none of them thought to become a whistle blower when they saw the pictures.

I am not sure what my point is. It's very complicated to sort out a system that dehumanizes everyone in it.

[Solly Mack]

11. worse pictures were shown to Congress as well

and yet....

[Virginia Dare]

14. I wonder if the American people will ever get to see..

what's been done in our names. It makes me sick thinking about it.

[Solly Mack]

15. Most likely not...or so far into the future that it will all be brushed aside as "the past"

[Virginia Dare]

16. The anniversary of My Lai was just recently...

that eventually came out, but like you said it was brushed aside as "the past", we'd moved on by then.

[DS1]

18. answer : I won't respond to that.

I wonder why not. I would have.