Am I supposed to be mad about LeBron?

[Fountain79]

Would someone please write a handbook? "What Will and Won't Piss Black Folk Smooth the **** Off" would be an international bestseller.

I'm black, and I'm pissed off most of the time, but I wouldn't leave home without the handbook. Not in these racist-ly confusing times. I can barely keep up with when I'm supposed to be disappointed as opposed to offended as opposed to being pissed smooth the **** off.

Right now I need to know where this LeBron James-Gisele Bundchen-Vogue-cover controversy falls. And just who am I supposed to be mad at, LeBron, the photographer, the editors at Vogue or Tom Brady?

http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/story/7955740/Am-I-supposed-to-be-mad-about-LeBron?MSNHPHCP>1=39002

[ColbertWatcher]

1. Is this a controversy?

Seriously?

Was one or the other forced to do the shoot?

Was she paid less than he was?

Did someone kill and eat a puppy? Kitten? Fluffy bunny?

What am I missing about this non-issue?

[Maureen1322]

8. I'm missing it too.

[Jack Rabbit]

25. Somebody seems to think so

Although I'm not sure what it is.

[TheWraith]

38. Cover shot mimicked an old Army recruit poster, with James in place of an ape labeled "militarism"

Some people are taking umbridge at the substitution of a black guy for an ape.

[taterguy]

2. Who's LeBron?

[jmowreader]

7. LeBron James, a basketball star

He went straight from high school to the NBA in the same year, 2003, that Carmelo Anthony went straight from high school to the NBA.

LeBron almost made history as the first man to lose his NCAA college eligibility to his mother--she borrowed $80,000 using his future earnings potential as collateral and bought him a Hummer for his 18th birthday. While lots of guys have received hummers for their 18th birthdays, most of those hummers didn't have DVD players in the back seat.

Of course, the press just freaked out about LeBron's career path, saying boys all over America would skip college for the NBA. In LeBron's case, going to college wouldn't have done much for his basketball career.

[taterguy]

9. How did Carmelo win a national championship for Syracuse if he went to the NBA from high school?

Please explain

[Jennicut]

19. Carmelo spent freshman year at 'Cuse, won a championship, then went to the NBA

I was a UCONN fan for a long time so I used to watch alot of college basketball.

[taterguy]

21. Carmelo went straight from high school to the NBA

I just read that on the Internet so it must be true

[Jennicut]

24. LOL Nope I remember watching the Syracuse games against UCONN and he was there

My memory is still good at 32. The damned internets.

[taterguy]

28. Must have been some other Carmelo Anthony

[jmowreader]

32. Someone told me he did, and I was stupid enough to believe it

We can agree that LeBron did, though. As did Karl Malone.

[taterguy]

34. Oh for fuck's sake

Karl Malone attended Louisiana Tech

Is there anything you post that's remotely factually accurate?

[krkaufman]

37. Methinks they've confused Karl and Moses, eh? n/t

[cynatnite]

10. Wait a second...

Are they thinking that Lebron was the first guy to ever skip college for the NBA? :rofl: silly press.

[taterguy]

11. It was Moses that led the path out of collegiate slavery

[aikoaiko]

16. And Moses followed the path of Darryl "Chocolate Thunder" Dawkins

Centers just don't smash backboards the way they used to.......

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darryl_Dawkins

eta: montage of backboard smashing goodness for those who never saw DD in his glory.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VX7TSWStfVs

[fishwax]

54. actually it was Dawkins who followed Moses, but

thanks for sharing that youtube clip--that was pretty cool. I remember (though only vaguely) the days of shattered backboards--made me remember an old computer game, "One on One: Dr. J vs. Larry Bird," where one of the cool tricks was that occasionally you could shatter the backboard. :)

[aikoaiko]

57. I stand corrected. Malone preceded Dawkins

I would have bet money on the opposite -- thanks for letting me know.

[taterguy]

59. Larry Bird could dunk?

Or could you only do that if you were playing as the Dr J character?

[fishwax]

61. yeah, bird bringing down the backboard wasn't the most realistic aspect of the game

for sure :rofl:

[dysfunctional press]

12. and most of them didn't get the hummer from their mother...

MOST of them.

[Zookeeper]

3. Interesting article.

'Worth reading and thinking about.

Thanks for posting.

[MADem]

4. I dunno--I hardly know who those clowns are. I think the Patriots QB might be pissed

at LeBron, if he took his co-model out for drinks, etcetera, afterwards!

Are people squawking about the cover? Good grief.

Who the fuck reads VOGUE, anyway? Vanity Fair, sure....but fucking VOGUE?

Aaaahhh, the devil, as always, is in the details (details which went right OVER my head! Dangerous? Fay Wray? Who knew?):

According to the allegations, King James looks like King Kong clutching Fay Wray on the latest cover of Vogue, and the image, according to potential handbook writers, "conjures up this idea of a dangerous black man."

Hmm, to LeBron and his handlers, he looks like LeBron clutching a pretty white woman on the latest cover of Vogue, and the image conjures up the idea that LeBron can race up court with a basketball and a supermodel.

I agree with LeBron. The photographer captured him exactly as he is. You know, when he covered his body in tatts years ago, mimicking a death-row inmate, LeBron invited people to jump to the conclusion that he's dangerous. Yeah, that's the way the image-is-everything game is played. Ink is a prison and gang thing. Don't act like you don't know the origin of the current fad.

Vogue put a mirror in our face, and we're complaining about the reflection. Half the black players in the NBA take the court each night in front of white audiences tatted from neck to toe like they're shooting a scene for Prison (Fast)Break.

[ellie]

22. I read Vogue

I have been a subscriber for more than 25 years.

[LeftyMom]

56. Well, there's some authentic racist bullshit (the quote, not what you said.)

The whole ink= gangs and prison thing. First of all, nobody assumes that if you're in your twenties and have tattoos, you must be in a gang or freshly out of lockup. Why? Because if they did, people in their twenties would be some seriously dangerous people, because most of us (okay, maybe just all my friends) are three tattoos short of reliable employment in a striped tent.

But LeBron is a big black guy with tattoos, so apparently it's okay to say that he looks like a gang member or somebody who just got out of prison, and then to blame him for giving you that idea, because he chose to get tattooed.

I'm inclined to say there's some latent racism there, because I've *never* heard anybody under the age of 70 make that comment about a white person.

[Berry Cool]

5. There's no point in being mad at the people who posed for the photo.

If you want to be mad at the photographer and the magazine for helping perpetuate the general message (the real lives of the photo's subjects notwithstanding) that the reward for men in our society who become successful and wealthy is that they "win" a blond white woman (frequently a supermodel) as their "trophy"--even if they themselves happen not to be white--well then, you can be mad at that. (Although, as I said, you'd be getting angry at their symbolizing such an idea rather than living it out, given that each person in the photo has a real-life romantic relationship with a person of his/her own race.)

But that doesn't seem to be what the anger some people feel about this photo is about. Their problem seems to be in that it presents the subjects looking--to the people who are offended--like a Scary Black Man hovering over a Beautiful White Woman. Which, understandably, dredges up all kinds of unpleasant memories and images and knee-jerk reactions for them.

I seriously doubt that's what the subjects, photographer or magazine intended, but sometimes it's hard to draw the line between "Come on--are people just LOOKING for things to be offended by now?" and "What on EARTH were they THINKING?"

[LisaL]

14. I believe the photographer was trying to re-create the poster.

It' just too similar to be a coincidence, IMO.

[TheWraith]

39. She has a history of mimicking such old posters, too, I'm told.

Part of the reason people think that's what she was doing.

[krkaufman]

6. The inspiration for the Vogue cover may make it worse

My nephew sent me this image, of a WW-I US military recruitment poster...

http://www.digitaldesk.org/projects/secondary/propaganda/destroy_brute.html

side-by-side...

[SidDithers]

15. Did the photog really use that poster as inspiration...

or is that just a scary coincidence?

There's no denying the similarities. Lebron's expression. The colour of Giselle's dress.

Wow.

Sid

[krkaufman]

35. I cannot say defnitively that Annie Liebowitz based the photo on the poster

... but, as you indicate, the two are too similar for the photo NOT to have been based on the poster.

Is it possible that Liebowitz or someone else had some distant subconscious memory of the WWI poster, or that someone else familiar with the propaganda poster slipped the scene into Liebowitz's photo shoot? Yeah. But some of Liebowitz's other recent work indicates that she has a penchant for such recreations. Of course, we can't be certain until she and/or Vogue admit to the linkage.

[Karenina]

17. OOO-La-La....

:wow: Now they're REALLY gonna fly off the shelves!!!

[rockymountaindem]

18. Except the bad dude in the recruitment poster is supposed to be German n/t

[Gormy Cuss]

23. Because at that time it was Germans who needed to be portrayed as subhuman.

Blacks aren't the only ones who were portrayed as monkeys or apes when it suited the propaganda.
http://www.haverford.edu/engl/faculty/Sherman/Irish/19thc..htm

[knitter4democracy]

27. If that's the case, there are interesting differences.

Gisele obviously isn't in a swoon. Instead, she's smiling and willing. He's not grabbing her, either, or holding her in any sort of predatory way. In having those differences, there's a different sense to the photo than the poster. LeBron looks more like how he does when he plays basketball, and Gisele looks like she's enjoying happy to be there.

The similarities are off-putting, don't get me wrong, but the photographer's interpretation does change the message, I think.

[krkaufman]

36. I don't disagree with what you say in this post ...

... but it doesn't change that it was stupid, careless or intentionally provocative on the part of Liebowitz -- or someone -- to select the WWI propaganda photo as something to reinterpret. I've posted elsewhere that, rather than extending the historical use of the "damsel dragged-off by brute" imagery, Liebowitz may have been trying to contrast current day with the past. (i.e. we're no longer fighting the Germans, a black man is represented as a black man, and the damsel is anything but frightened or distressed) I look forward to, perhaps someday, hearing Liebowitz's rationale.

[Karenina]

43. Me too! I appreciate the exemplars you posted here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x3066231

from an art history POV. My ESL topics for next week are covered!!! We LOVE dissecting this stuff. In detail.

From a PR POV, in the current Ami atmosphere, I think it's a BRILLIANT concept. "THEN and NOW." Watching the reaction is quite entertaining.

[krkaufman]

45. Thanks for understanding. I'm not trying to fuel any controversy; rather...

... I'm just laying out the information I've been provided, that seems to provide additional background to Liebowitz's work.

Re: "Ami atmosphere"... Huh?

Re: reaction... It's definitely something worthy of discussion; and oddly coincidental with several other racially controversial "incidents", let's say. I'm not sure what course would cover this sort of topic, but I'd say they've got plenty to work through. (I'm particularly amused by the reaction of those who reject the comparison between the photo and the poster. What compels someone to deny such an obvious relationship?)

[Karenina]

47. Ami reaction

I have long-term distance now and am able to look back across the Big Pond with different eyes. I see a cesspool. The same compulsion that denies double standards refuses to connect the obvious dots labeled 1 & 2. THAT is the current destruction of what any of us ever thought "America" is or ever was.

[krkaufman]

49. Oh, "Ami" is shorthand for "American" ... in the UK?

"refuses to connect the dots labeled 1 & 2" ... so very true; that's what's most astounding. And, sadly, that intellectual resistance seems to be pervasive across so many critical issues.

[knitter4democracy]

44. I agree that it wasn't the smartest thing to do.

Honestly, it's not that great of a cover anyway. The latest Vogue Knitting has a better one, and that's unusual.

[krkaufman]

46. ah-ha!! NOW I understand Vogue's motivations ....

Had it not been for this controversial cover, I may have gone to my grave never knowing of the existence of Vogue Knitting.





:hi:

[knitter4democracy]

51. I really like Vogue Knitting. It's much better now.

A few years back, it was just okay, but now, it's a much, much better magazine. Between that and Interweave Knits, I'm pretty set for knitting.

Isn't that a lovely cover, though? Between the actual sweater and the gorgeous model and all the colors, I think it's far, far prettier and looks more high fashion than the other one.

[GoneOffShore]

48. That's a pretty far stretch

It's a great photo of LeBron & Gisele

But as I said elsewhere, she's never going to make a jump shot in those shoes.

[krkaufman]

50. I'm not saying that it's NOT a great photo of them ...

... but it's almost ridiculous to deny the relationship of the cover photo to the propaganda poster, especially given Annie Liebowitz's other recent recreations. I'm confident that the link will eventually be publicly revealed, unless we're blessed with the issue first dying off.

[GoneOffShore]

52. Thanks for finding this one.

I love Leibowitz's stuff.

And the harking back always seems to me to be tongue in cheek.

[fishwax]

55. good catch by your nephew

:wow:

[krkaufman]

63. How about it. I'm not yet sure where he learned of it, but his passing it on has had some effect.

Huffington Post: Uncovered: Possible Inspiration For Controversial LeBron James Vogue Cover

The HuffPo article fails to give proper credit, but if one follows the ref links through a few twists and turns, you'll find Rogers Cadenhead providing some credit...

The comparison was brought to light by K.R. Kaufman on the online community Democratic Underground.

... but fails to give my nephew props -- which I have attempted to correct. The big booger still hasn't gotten back to me on where *he* learned of it, though.

[PVnRT]

60. Except that the "brute" is Kaiser Wilhelm

Note the stylish mustache.

[krkaufman]

62. Right. Plus the spiked helmet (Pickelhaube)

It is a WWI US military recruitment propaganda poster. The fact that the WWI propaganda poster was representing the Germans as "mad brutes" doesn't change the fact that it's an ape in the poster. And that the poster is the obvious inspiration for Liebowitz's Vogue cover photo. (i.e. LeBron is taking the place of the ape in the poster; Giselle the topless distressed woman)

I don't pretend to know Liebowitz's intent in her reinterpretation of the poster. I was merely providing background info that seemed to be missing from the "debate."

[psychmommy]

13. if it doesn't bother you that is ok.

we won't revoke your black card. but, you should bother to learn your history. you should know why some folks are insulted by it. speak with some of your older relatives. sometimes we do our children a disservice by protecting and insulating them from the brute realities of racism. go on you tube and check out the old bugs bunny cartoons-how blacks and asians were portrayed. america was a not nice place for us for a long time. i just learned that they made post cards from lynching pictures, wow. i am surprised to learn that young black folks don't know about the simian references to black men. if nothing else i know you heard the term porch monkey. who do you think that was a reference to? if we don't learn our history it is bound to be repeated.

[Fountain79]

20. I didn't write the article, I don't know if I agree with it or not even....

I just thought it was interesting nonetheless.

[GoneOffShore]

26. Funny article -

Right on the money.

[NashVegas]

29. Smooth the **** Off?

I feel so behind the times ...

[krkaufman]

41. Me, too. Googling educated me no further. n/t

:shrug:

[Romulox]

30. The strange thing is that LeBron has a "nice guy" image--the ferocious look is out of character

He's a face, not a heel!

[rocktivity]

31. Wow! I can't believe my eyes!

She dumped that loser Tom Brady!



:evilgrin:
rocknation

[Bucky]

33. I'm mad at Gisele Bundchen.

Are you suggesting she's innocent in all this? The one thing I've learned over these last few painful years is that the mastermind behind all the evil in the world is always the one you suspect the least.

[bigwillq]

40. What's the big deal? For real, I don't know.

I heard about the cover but that was it. What is going on?

All I know is, LeBron is hot as hell and I want him to be my baby daddy. :evilgrin:

[Virginia Dare]

42. Vogue would like you to be very pissed..

so pissed that you go out and buy the magazine just to see what the BFD is.

[krkaufman]

53. Except the BFD is on the cover, which is blasted all over the Intertubes ...

... so you don't need to buy a copy. The controversy certainly did make me aware of Vogue, though; so there *was* some PR effect.

[RoadRage]

58. Is Tom suppose to be upset with LeBron or Vouge..

LeBron for holdin' on to his girlfriend, or Vouge for not nominating HIM for best body? :)

I think this entire thing is silly.. and people are really doing anything and everything possible to make a story into an issue.

We have a basketball player who has a good reputation, and is fantastic on the court standing next to a super-model that is also well respected. One is black.. one is white. They both look great (although i wouldn't mind if that supermodel ate a french fry once in a while).

You sorta have to wonder.. if "race" wasn't at the forefront of everyones mind these days (ESPECIALLY THE MEDIA) - would this even get a second glance?

Anyway - the real winner here is Vouge.. they're getting all sorts of free publicity.. and bad publicity in this case is way better then none at all.

[klyon]

64. I see nothing offensive

but the shot would have been better if the model had jumped into the air and it looked like he was caring her but still it is a very good shot. It has impact or we wouldn't be talking about it.