End Domestic Violence...

[bridgit]

Domestic Violence Facts

Within the United States, one out of every four American women will experience violence by an intimate partner sometime during her lifetime. One out of every six women will be raped during her lifetime.4

Of those victimized by an intimate partner, 85% are women and 15% are men.2 In other words, women are 5 to 8 times more likely than men to be victimized by an intimate partner.3

The vast majority of domestic assaults are committed by men. Even when men are victimized, 10% are assaulted by another man. In contrast, only 2% of women who are victimized are assaulted by another woman.2
Vulnerability Factors
Women age 16 to 24 are most likely to be victimized by an intimate partner.2

African-American women experience more domestic violence than White women in the age group of 20-24. However, Black and White women experience the same level of victimization in all other age categories.2

Hispanic women are less likely to be victimized than non-Hispanic women in every age group.2

Women are most vulnerable to violence when separated from their intimate partner. The second most vulnerable group are those who are divorced.2 This can discourage women from leaving their abusive partner, out of fear that it will increase their risk of victimization.
Physical Injury
Approximately 40-50% of female victims are physically injured when assaulted by their intimate partner,2, 4 accounting for over 200,000 visits to the hospital emergency room each year.5

Only about 1 in 5 of domestic violence victims with physical injuries seek professional medical treatment.3
Murder
Women are far more likely than men to be murdered by an intimate partner. Of those murdered by their intimate partner, 74% are women and 26% are men.2 In other words, nearly 3 out of 4 of the murders committed by intimate partners have a female victim.

The FBI reports that between 1976 and 1996, domestic violence claims the lives of more than four women each day.3

Between 1976 and 1996, there was a "sharp decrease" in the number of men murdered by intimate partners, whereas the number of women murdered by an intimate partner remained constant.3 Some have attributed this to the increasing availability of shelters which provide battered women with options other than killing an abusive partner. It is possible that some women who might have otherwise killed their abuser are able to leave and go to a shelter.
Under-reporting of Domestic Violence to Police
Only about half of domestic violence incidents are reported to police. African-American women are more likely than others to report their victimization to police.3

The most common reasons for not reporting domestic violence to police are that victims view the incident as a personal or private matter, they fear retaliation from their abuser, and they do not believe that police will do anything about the incident.3

Even with this dramatic under-reporting, domestic violence calls constitute approximately half of all violent crime calls to police departments. For example, 49% of the violent crime calls received by the DC Metropolitan Police Department in 2000 were for domestic violence incidents.6
Police Response Frequently Inadequate
Skepticism regarding the quality of police response is grounded in reality. A recent study by the D.C. Metropolitan Police Department concluded that there was a "clear and pervasive pattern" of departures from departmental policy.6

For example, in only one-third of the domestic violence calls did an officer take photographs or ask about prior abuse.6

Only 17% of the victims were asked about a restraining order, and 83% were provided no printed information with contact information or resources.6

For information on domestic violence in policing families, please see the National Center for Women and Policing's Fact Sheet on Police Family Violence.

The Myth of "Mutuality"
Although many studies report that men and women use physical violence at equal rates within intimate relationships,7, 8 this fails to take into account the nature of the violence and the level of fear and injury experienced by each party.

Several studies document that women experience higher levels of fear than men do in domestic violence situations.9, 10, 11, 12, 13 This is perhaps because women in domestic violence situations are much more likely to be injured -- and injured severely -- than men are.8, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17

Recent years have seen an increase in the number of women arrested for domestic violence. For example, the percentage of women arrested for domestic violence increased in Concord, New Hampshire from 23% in 1993 to 35% in 1999. Vermont saw a similar increase from 16% in 1997 to 23% in 1999.18

Some have attributed this to the increase in "mandatory arrest" policies, in which police are required to make an arrest if there is probable cause that a person has committed domestic violence. Passage of these laws was advocated by feminists and domestic violence experts to address the inadequate response to domestic violence victims by law enforcement. When officers arrive at the scene of a domestic violence crime, they often cite evidence that both partners have engaged in some aggressive behavior, and arrest both the man and the woman. This "dual arrest" strategy fails to take into account which of two people is primarily responsible for the aggression and which one is responding out of self-defense, and can have devastating effects, particularly if there are children involved in the relationship.

To counteract this problem, some departmental or statewide policies now provide guidelines for an officer to determine who is the "primary aggressor" in a violent incident. For example, the California Commission on Peace Officer Standards and Training publishes a guidebook for officers responding to domestic violence, discouraging "dual arrests" and outlining several factors to consider when determining who is the primary aggressor in a domestic violence situation. The primary aggressor is defined as "the person determined to be the most significant, rather than the first, aggressor." Factors to consider include the history of domestic violence between the people involved, the threats and fear level of each person, and whether either person acted in self defense. These are appropriate considerations when determining who is the primary aggressor, and therefore which of the two parties should be arrested.20
Police Training Resources
For more information or to identify expert law enforcement trainers in the area of domestic violence, please contact the National Center for Women & Policing. We at the National Center have compiled a list of law enforcement trainers that we recommend, based on a review of training materials gathered from around the country. This review was conducted with funding provided by a grant from the Violence Against Women Office of the U.S. Department of Justice. Email us at [e-mail] or call at [phone].

Statistics and information compiled by FMF's National Center for Women and Policing

http://www.feminist.org/other/dv/dvfact.html

[Porcupine]

1. Who raises the men?

The majority of men in america are raised in single parent households led by a mother or grandmother. Since we know that women don't hit in domestic violence situations it's curious as to how these men learn to model this behavior.

I propose that women concerned about domestic violence root out the problem at it's source. By selectively aborting 9/10ths of male babies in the first trimester domestic violence events would be eliminated by attrition. The remaining men would be encourage to view homosexuality as the preferable sexual expression thereby reducing further the incidence of domestic violence.

Men who perversely maintain a heterosexual orientation could be socialized to view their sex as a shameful handicap that requires a lifetime of counseling and hormonal control to keep in check. With persistence they too could be kept from offending. There would always be Idaho for those men and women who insist on maintaining "traditional" gender relationships.

Fertility of the remaining population would be done by sperm "donation" and a turkey baster. With persistence I'm sure the problem could be solved.
:sarcasm:

Or we could quit blaming men and try and work on these issues together. The blaming thing isn't working; for starters women hit men also. They frequently start the hitting; then it ends badly because men are bigger. A few guys are wising up and calling the police when their women hit in self defense. It's useally a mistake because the police will coach the women to claim she was hit or threatened first.

My older sisters and my mother used to hit me. My two daughters insist on hitting each other despite my protests. My neighbors wife hits him. The guy across the way had his girlfriend get drunk and throw a chair through his window onto his bed. I've seen numerous women threaten to beat their children at WalMart; it's a cliche. Men don't report it for about the same reasons women don't. When men do report domestic violence they are frequently ignored by law enforcement.

The problem is violence. Violence is bad. Blaming doesn't stop violence; compassion does. Start there.

:flameproof suit:

[Big Pappa]

2. Bing!

How many men do not report violence that occurred to them by women. This is shit. No one should hit another person.

[goddess40]

84. exactly, and when the weaker hits the stronger the stronger should leave

and refuse to play that destructive 'game'.

We also need to teach people that jealousy and hitting aren't signs of love but of dehumanizing possession. Don't we all know people that thinks it's romantic when their significant other gets jealous - especially early on in a relationship. It isn't cute then and it only gets uglier.

[kdmorris]

3. Nobody said women don't hit in domestic relationships

Did you read the whole thing? And I would like to see links/sources/etc that show that the majority of men are raised by a single mother or grandmother. Your answer seems to come from your own life experiences and I am sorry for the pain it's caused you. But blaming all women for what happened to you and talking about aborting 9/10ths of the males is not very helpful to this debate. No more than blaming all males for what my abusive ex-husband did is helpful. (As you yourself mention, blaming doesn't stop violence

The only part of your post I agree with is the last sentence. You have that right. Violence is the problem and we need to work to stop all types of domestic violence. You should stop blaming women and try and work on these issues together.

[Big Pappa]

15. Hold up.

I am glad you were able to decipher my entire life in two sentences. And please show me where I even mentioned the word "abortion". Is it time for your lithium?

[kdmorris]

32. I didn't reply to you!

I was replying to the first post, the one you also replied to, the one written by Porcupine. And he/she said By selectively aborting 9/10ths of male babies in the first trimester domestic violence events would be eliminated by attrition.

[Big Pappa]

33. My most

humble apologies.:toast:

[kdmorris]

34. It's OK

I was just a wee bit shocked. I still need some coffee this morning.

Peace, friend.

[PVnRT]

73. I would like to know that as well

The majority of men I know grew up in two-parent households.

[REP]

4. Excellent Satire!

Man, that is the best piece of satire I've read in a long time. It's so earnest, so full of that "but I'm victim tooooooo!!" handwringing that it almost comes across as sincere.

Almost.

[kdmorris]

6. Is it satire?

If it is, I really... really... need to not post so early in the morning... or I need to stop drinking decaf.

[REP]

8. It Can't Be Anything Else

Just read the over-heated rhetoric, the poor-meism, the hyperbole - no one could post that steaming pile and mean it seriously.

[kdmorris]

9. Good point

OK, so I'll go with "I shouldn't post so early in the morning".

[smirkymonkey]

10. A thread on violence against women just isn't complete without

some whiner to turn the discussion back to how badly men are abused by women. Jeeze, I swear some of these people just lie in wait for a thread on domestic violence to come up so they can go on a rant about how bad men have it.

One of the issues that the OP brought up is that even when men are abused, it's an overwhelming majority of MEN who are doing the abusing. This isn't about all men - if you aren't an abuser, then this issue shouldn't offend you. Grow up. It's not all about YOU! (Not you REP, the men who are doing the whining.) :hi:

[Big Pappa]

16. No one is

whining just the fact that humans should not hit other humans. No matter what the sex. You know the "overwhelming" amount of people in prison are black. Should I make a distinction from that. Get real.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

53. Facts Matter:

"One of the issues that the OP brought up is that even when men are abused, it's an overwhelming majority of MEN who are doing the abusing."

That premise is 100% completely false. 100% completely false. It is not whining to say so. Facts matter.

[lukasahero]

59. Got a study to support that assertion? eom

[REP]

70. Made Me Laugh Out Loud

Of course there will be nothing coming to support that assertion because there is nothing to support that assertion.

Next will come claims of numerous forcible rapes of men by women, and that it can't be proven that most forcible rapes of men come at the hands of other men.

[philosophie_en_rose]

96. Facts do matter. You are WRONG.

How is it 100% wrong that men are the majority of abusers? The statistics show that this is true. Go to the department of justice website and look it up for yourself.

But it's pretty obvious that you could personally witness all of the domestic violence perpetrated almost entirely by men and still deny that it's happened.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

12. Agreed, And Thanks For Saying It.

[Morgana LaFey]

17. One problem --

The children who grow up to be spousal abusers were typically (overhwmelingly, actually) raised in families where there was abuse, and it takes TWO to do that -- one to abuse and one to receive. Mothers alone don't raise abusing sons or for that matter daughters who grow up to be victims of abuse or abusers themselves.

OTOH, when I read posts like yours (blaming the women themselves and basically absolving ALL men of their sins) -- and knowing that there ARE men in the world who are exactly this misogynist (thanks for the reminder to you and operationmindcrime and whoever else), I sure as hell think you might be onto something there.

Thank God my own son isn't an embarrassment to his sex.

[Big Pappa]

18. Please point

to where I "blamed all women" and "absolved all men". Those are some truly amazing cognitive skills you have.

[lukasahero]

37. Once again you are responding to someone who is not replying to you

Before this "show me where I" crap gets out of hand - the poster is not replying to you.

[BoneDaddy]

39. Thank you for the truth

this bullshit meme of "if women ran the world there would be no violence" nonsense needs to be addressed. It is usually started by the overly hostile women who hate men, thrive in perpetual victimhood and who need therapy.

[REP]

69. Do You Mean Women Who Don't Know When To Shut Up?

Because that's how it reads.

[BoneDaddy]

77. no

only stupid hypocritical man hating women.

[REP]

80. Those Are The Ones Who Don't Know When To Shut Up And Need To Be Hit?

I'm just taking a shot in the dark here - you're divorced.

[BoneDaddy]

83. Absolutely not

my wife of 11 years is a feminist as am I, but we acknowledge the poison in the feminist movement that is initiated by a minority of women who still come from a victimized, angry, irrational place where they globalize their "wounds", make all men the enemy and think they are justified by continuing to promote a childish fantasy that makes all men the scapegoat of their miserable lives.

[Madspirit]

66. What a crock of crap

a.) battered men are a tiny tiny minority and..
b.) it rarely ends in death whereas with women it OFTEN ends in death.

That kind of makes a big difference.

YOUR thinking perpetuates the abuse and IS abusive by defending abusers. ...and it makes the victim responsible for the behavior of a man who can't stop his own fists. What a crock of abusive crap.

Lee

[Name removed]

71. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[lukasahero]

72. She's not replying to you so what "you" said has no relevelance here eom

[BoneDaddy]

85. It has total relevance

I consider it my job to confront the fascist so called feminists who are only using true feminism to promote their hate of men.

[lukasahero]

86. Yeah, well you must have done a good job

'cause your post was deleted. Personal attack much?

[Name removed]

89. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[BoneDaddy]

74. blah blah blah

Hypocrisy is hypocrisy, deal with your own.

[woo me with science]

91. There is an important point in here.

about societal perceptions of men and women. First, violence against women is a real problem, but it is not because women are innately more virtuous than men. Women are more likely to be hurt by men, because men are bigger. Thus, any aggression of man toward woman is more likely to result in significant physical injury.

However, women are just as capable of demonstrating bad behavior, aggression, and cruel psychological treatment in relationships as men. We don't hear about it much, because psychologists and sociologists and the media are still struggling with unfortunate stereotypes and myths about men and women that have been entrenched in the popular culture for at least 20 years. There is a politically correct mythology in psychological depictions of men and women that is really unfortunate, because it prevents men from reporting violence perpetrated by women and prevents both men and women in aggressive relationships from getting the help they really need.

One major problem with therapy as it is often practiced today is the tendency by therapists to lump women and men into facile categories of "Abused" and "Abuser," thereby implying that one is blameless and innocent, and the other is subhuman and evil. A woman who goes to therapy with problems in relationships these days runs a too-high risk of finding herself with a therapist who will reflexively assist her in identifying flaws in her male partner rather than helping her do the hard work of identifying her own contributions to relationship problems. Yes, some women need to be counseled to leave truly abusive relationships. However, there are many more women learning to view themselves as abused in therapy than are actually victims of abuse.

These stereotypes of the abused woman and the abusing man are so pervasive that they occur almost as a reflex for some therapists even when there has been no actual violence in the relationship. Mean or insensitive comments spoken in the heat of anger by male partners are, by some therapists, immediately classified as "emotional abuse" and the men labeled as "Abusers," even if such comments are not the man's usual way of operating in the relationship, and even when the woman is also being verbally aggressive.

Note that, by labeling him as An Abuser, we are no longer talking about bad behavior in a particular context, but rather the person himself. We have categorized the man as an entity, a Type, assumed to have abusive behavior as an inherent part of his nature. He is no longer a complex, flawed person, but rather An Abuser. Sort of a sub-human species to be avoided and shunned. And if you doubt this happens to men who aren't abusive, you need to spend some time talking to therapists and women in therapy. You will not have to wait long before you see a women announce that her therapist made her realize, when she never knew it before, that so-and-so, whom she loved for so long, was actually (drum roll and gasp).... An Abuser! The irony is that similar verbal aggression by the woman in the relationship may never even come to light, because it is by default assumed not to exist. She is, after all, the Victim of abuse.

The tendency to do this has roots in the unfortunate period of time in which a more positive feminism was infected by the "recovered memory" therapies of the 1980's and 1990's. Therapists trained during this era were actually taught to LOOK for ways in which women might be victims and men might be evil abusers, even if such dynamics were never before suspected by the client. It became politically incorrect to question a woman's memories, perceptions, or interpretations. As a result, therapy devolved into a sick practice of cataloguing grievances and validating the woman in claiming the victim role.

Some therapists persist with this cartoon-like stereotyping of complex human beings, taking a cookie cutter approach in which the woman is by default assumed to be the victim and the man the perpetrator. It is very sad, because it prevents actual, helpful therapy from occurring by preventing women from examining their own behavior in relationships. Too often, "therapy" becomes a destructive process of validating the woman's feelings of victimization rather than challenging her to identify her own role in disturbed relationships. And for men, therapy becomes something to be avoided, because they run the risk of being misunderstood and dismissed as a (subhuman) "Abuser" rather than the other flawed human being in a complex relationship.

I am adding the necessary disclaimer here, because I know I will be flamed by posters saying I am denying the reality of abuse and trying to blame women for things that are not their fault. I am not denying the reality of abuse. Any woman being hit or beaten or persistently verbally degraded by a man should leave, and support should be available to her to help her do this. However, there are many, many relationships in which verbal and even physical meanness and aggression go both ways, but women, by default, receive a pass. I am talking about those situations.

Not all therapists engage in this stereotyping, but too many do, because these societal myths are still entrenched in therapy training programs and the popular media. It is hard for some therapists to resist the intense positive relationships they can develop with female clients by never challenging their perceptions and attributing all of their problems to the mean, abusive men around them. Many more are too entrenched in political correctness to even think of looking for bad behavior on the part of the woman, or too intimidated by politically correct ideas to suggest that such bad behavior might exist and be a real problem. If you look at popular media portrayals of troubled relationships, you will also see the stereotypes over and over again--women simplified into helpless, blameless victims and men reduced to evil abusers. However, this facile approach to understanding men and women has very little to do with most real relationships, and it does very little to help real, flawed women and men heal mutually troubled interactions.

[lukasahero]

97. Re: therapists

My ex and I went to several. One actually told me that I had to give him less information because it made him feel I thought he was stupid for giving him so much detail and in the next breath that I had to give him more information because it made him feel stupid because he didn't know how to do something. Of course it was up to me to determine which times he needed which approach and if he got mad at me for guessing wrong it was my fault. Seriously, my fault if he hit me as a result of making him feel stupid for either giving him too much information or not enough. I certainly have no experience with the kind of therapists and stereotypes you are talking about.

[philosophie_en_rose]

94. The Department of Justice says that 85% of victims are women.

And they compile very specific data from criminal justice agencies all over the nation. In addition, that does not include the many women that are arrested as perpetrators, because bruises around your neck don't appear as quickly as scratches of self-defense on the face.

Your post drips with misogyny and callousness. "Hitting" is only one element in domestic violence, which involves a myriad of controlling behaviors. And regardless of whether "women hit too," you cannot refute the fact that the vast majority of perpetrators are men. And the vast majority of victims are women.

[H2O Man]

5. Thank you for posting this.

I worked in human services for decades. My first jobs involved working with domestic -- or family -- violence. As the responses to your OP indicate, there is a emotional component to even discussing domestic violence. While we might all agree that violence in families is a serious problem, the emotional reactions too often separate us into groups based on sex, age, ethnic group, etc. The very things that have the potential to help us understand some patterns, also have the potential to divide and blind us.

I was always struck by a quote that Malcolm X used frequently, which turned out to be something that J. Edgar Hoover had said .... and this is my paraphrasing it ..... Society does better when it deals with violence starting in the high chair, rather than ending in the electric chair.

Again, thank you for a post on a most serious issue.

[Arkansas Granny]

7. Excellent post. This is a subject that deserves more attention.

Although it isn't addressed here, it seems to me that in the families I personally know who are affected by domestic violence, that the violence escalates if there is not some sort of intervention. Is this just my perception or is there any evidence to support that?

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

11. Absolutely Domestic Violence Should Stop; From Both Genders.

And your implied premise that men suffer domestic assault at far less frequency is extremely inaccurate, for the record. That's a fact. Though I'd agree that women possibly are injured more severely I still don't think for a second that legitimizes the frequency at which women do it to men as well. Fact is, BOTH genders need to stop the domestic violence bullshit. I've fought this battle before and know better than to get into some huge flamewar subthread over it and I don't have the time nor desire to do so. I just wish when I see threads like this calling attention to the widespread problem of domestic assault, that they were more intellectually honest and recognized it as a legitimate and significant problem amongst both genders; which it is.

But having that said, absolutely it needs to be reigned in and stopped. There's no excuse for either partner to ever engage in domestic violence towards one another and the problem is way too frequent.

[ourbluenation]

13. as a crisis counselor, happy to give this it's 5th. Thank you.

[WorldResident]

14. For those who support a "strong" stance on domestic violence, I have some questions

I know our domestic violence laws only on a basic level, but what I do know is that in all 50 states, family violence is considered to be a greater crime than general assault. Furthermore, our criminal justice system has dealt with family violence very strictly over the past 15 years.

Some points to attest to this:

1. Any family violence conviction, even if the maximum punishment is only a fine, results in permanent disqualification of gun ownership.

2. In Texas, assault family violence is one of only two misdemeanor offenses that cannot be sealed from a public criminal record (the other is DWI).

3. Some states will charge all parties in a domestic violence dispute as mutual combatants if the evidence appears to support such a conclusion.

And what I would think is the most important point:

4. Family violence offenses are considered offenses against the state. What this means is that the police or county attorney technically decides whether to prosecute a case, even if the victim later decides not to press charges.

Why is this last point important? It's because this last point ties in generally to the first three points.

- The offending family member's livelihood will be affected with a domestic violence conviction long after his or her sentence is served. From risk of deportation, loss of job, inability to get a job in the future, risk of eviction, or inability to get housing in the future, this family member will suffer consequences that are not readily apparent. Perhaps, the victim does not want to see his or her offender hurt so drastically and he or she may even be harmed him or herself practically due to the consequences that will be borne by the offending person. (i.e. the victim may depend heavily on his or her offender's income.)

- However, the state's interest is to protect society, not the victim per se. Thus, the government may not honor a request to drop the charges, especially if the evidence against the offender is strong and/or he or she could not afford adequate counsel. In extreme cases, the state may threaten the victim with contempt of court or obstruction of justice for failure to cooperate.

In light of all of this, do you feel that the current criminal justice response is either too harsh on offenders and/or serves the state's interest without considering the victim's interest?

[alarimer]

19. They deserve what they get

In fact I think more victims should kill their attackers. Many times they won't stop otherwise. They should rot in jail forever AND they should suffer financially as well. There should be no tolerance for domestic violence EVER.

If more women were taught to defend themselves, their abusers would get the message that it is not okay. They are simply bullies, worthless pieces of shit. If somebody hits me, I am going to hit them back with a frying pan, I swear. Nobody should ever put up with it. In fact, the sign in the yard thing should apply to domestic abusers as well, just to let everyone know what scumbag lives there and that hopefully no one will ever date them again.

[Morgana LaFey]

21. Or, as I'm told my maternal grandmother used to say

to my grandfather: you have to sleep sometime.

After reading some of the shit on this thread, I can't say I blame you one bit for your own sentiments. Not one little bit.

[Big Pappa]

22. So did

your grandfather beat your grandmother? Or was she just threatening him? Just curious.

[WorldResident]

24. And victims who retaliate are considered family violence offenders as well.

(I'm not talking about self-defense, I'm talking about passionate revenge.)

[Big Pappa]

25. I

agree.

[WorldResident]

40. So according to your logic, the initial abuser has the right to re-offend

to retaliate against the victim-turned-offender and the cycle of violence continues?

[Morgana LaFey]

20. Mostly I think

you don't understand the dynamics or why some of the laws are written as they are.

For that reason, I don't think it would be worth my while to spend any time discussing the particulars with you.

[WorldResident]

23. Your post makes no sense

Supposedly I don't understand the dynamics of the laws so you're unable to explain the dynamics of said laws? A brilliant example of circular logic. :eyes: :sarcasm:

In fact, I wonder if you actually have any background in criminal law or if you're just trying to pretend to be a know-it-all over cyberspace.

I asked an objective question, and if you wish to discuss this issue rationally then I welcome that, but I'm not interested in posts without substance that are intended to be personal attacks.

[WorldResident]

26. Here are some stories where the victim's interest has not been served:

ACLU Fights Eviction of Domestic Abuse Victim in Michigan

http://www.aclu.org/womensrights/violence/28143prs20070117.html

Man fears deportation for domestic violence (even after pardon - Bush War on Terror)

http://www.enquirer.com/editions/2001/07/09/loc_man_fears.html

Don't Jail Domestic Violence Victims

http://www.independent.org/newsroom/article.asp?id=1638

Advocating for Domestic Violence Victims Who Have Been Arrested for Domestic Violence.

http://www.justicewomen.com/tips_dv_victims.html

[lapislzi]

63. You raise some provocative points

Domestic violence is a societal issue, as society often has to bear many of its costs. Having said that, I think that:

--Our society, and our justice system in particular heavily favors "punishment" over "justice."

--Laws such as the ones you describe tie the hands of law enforcement and the judiciary (except the gun one; I'd be in favor of domestic abusers being denied access to weapons). With laws like these, they can't review each case on its merits.

There's got to be a sane balance between sensitivity to the needs of the victim, appropriate punishment for abusers, and remediation of the conditions that caused the problem, so that in the future, the burden faced by society will be lessened. Easier said than done, I know.

Everyone's situation is different. There are no pat answers, and I will take issue with anyone who says there's one way and one way only to deal with domestic violence. Not so.

[RB TexLa]

27. If someone commits a crime against you don't stay in the same house with them

I know that is not always an easy thing to do, but many have done just that.

[Big Pappa]

28. That is something

I have never been able to understand. Why stay where there is abuse? I am sure there are very complex reasons for this but being simplistic about the matter it just boggles the mind why they stay.

[bridgit]

31. in my case my X followed me to where i was; *domestic* violence...

can lend a skewed sense of where these events are sometimes ultimately played out

[kdmorris]

36. Sometimes the victim tries to leave and fails

As you say there are very complex reasons, most of which I feel were naive on my part, looking 14 years into the past. However, most of the reason I stayed for the 6 years I did was because I was terrified of what would happen if I left. He had threatened to kill me and the children (3 daughters) if I even tried to leave him. In addition, I didn't have any job skills, as I had married him while I was still in high school. I think it takes a victim with little self-esteem in the first place to be drawn to someone who will end up beating them. And I think the batterer generally tends to kill whatever little self-esteem the victim has left during the relationship. By the time I left, I had none left, but I did care about my children. I did try to leave several times, but he became MORE violent after leaving, and once managed to get my oldest daughter. He told me he would sell her on the black market if I didn't come back (and I was too scared to realize that he probably wouldn't. I just knew I wanted to save my daughter and see her again. So I went back until I could get my daughter out, too)


In the end, I only left because he picked up my then 5 year old daughter and shook her, screaming in her face, because she had spilled her milk. I didn't want her to go through what I was going through. I was 17 when I entered the relationship and 23 when I left. It was HARD to go to school and get marketable job skills with a 5 year old, a 2 year old and a 10 month old. In addition to that, he became more abusive after I left, kept showing up at my house at 3 AM and banging on the windows. I had tried to move somewhere where he wouldn't find me, but he did find me. It was terrifying the first year I was gone and the police were not helpful. I was one of the first women in the state of Maryland to get a protective order when they first changed the law, but no one really knew what to do with it.

I did manage to get my life back together, and I'm married now to a wonderful man (we are about to celebrate our 10th anniversary) who is not abusive and has always treated my 3 daughters as if they were his own. I prosecuted my ex-husband and he spend 3 years in prison and he hasn't seen my daughters since 1996. I read in the paper that he recently had another daughter and the baby had to go into foster care because her skull had been cracked. They are trying to figure out who did it, but it's a good probability that he did.

[raccoon]

42. I'm glad you got away from that abusive man. Thanks for posting. nt

[Tsiyu]

58. Tell it like it is, Sister

EVERY time a thread comes up concerning this issue, there are the obligatory "but, but....you hate men!" responses. I worked nine years in both general hospitals and a children's hospital, and you can't give me any line of drama or documentation that can erase what I saw in the name of abuse. Overwhelmingly done by men....husbands, fathers, boyfriends, stepfathers. This in no way diminishes what is done by women, but it certainly points to a problem that must be addressed by addressing men and attempting to understand how this behavior can be stopped.

As I told my five sons: when you are an adult, if a woman makes a fist and hits you, she will probably only bruise you, because her biceps are small and not made for that kind of aggressive work. A man's fist, on the other hand, can shatter a woman's skull, break her ribs, stop her heart. There IS a difference in the way we are made. Women can increase their strength, but on average, this is true.

So one can be hurtful, one can be lethal, more often than not.

You cannot change these facts to suit your agenda.

All domestic violence should be taken seriously, and I believe part of the problem lies with the whole family and civil court structure. When divorces are handled in an adversarial manner - with the parties labeled a plaintiff or a defendant - it creates a war atmosphere when relationships end. The parties are encouraged by attorneys to fight like cats and dogs and the law allows this.

Children - and the needs of the weakest parties - are often overlooked.

I found it odd that one poster above was in the "Women are just as bad" camp one minute, then asking "Why don't women just leave?" the next. Well, why don't those men leave? People stay in abusive relationships out of fear, financial concerns, because of family pressure ("Now, what did you do to provoke him to bruise you like that, Dear?") and for other reasons too complicated for this discussion.

A person suffering in a violent relationship is a person going through hell.

Compassion, and a desire to remedy this national tragedy, are in order.

But those two are in short supply.

[ismnotwasm]

64. Amen

I took a hiatus from DU for a bit. The more things change the more they stay the same.

This thread is interesting in that it took no time for the Mengetbeattoo response.

How that changes the basic facts of domestic violence I don't know. Overwhelmingly women are the abused, men the abuser. Of course no one should be hit or hurt.
I guess there are folks that think we live in a egalitarian society with no gender discrepancies, where women are equal in all ways to men, where women are encouraged to be strong and muscular, Where there is no recent, and in some cases current, history of the male spouse with the implied or actual legal right to rape, to beat. Where there is no blame the victim mentality, where adequate resources are available 24/7 for ALL domestic violence victims. Where the abused never learn at the hands at the abuser that "it's all their fault" Where there is no PTSD from abuse. Where ALL of society gathers in support for the abuse ANY woman or child or man instead taking it for granted that it's a natural part of societies behavior.

I haven't seen any evidence of all this personally.

Accepting that women get abused every single day in every country of the world in horrid numbers-- yes far, far more than men-- in no way negates the fact that men too, suffer from abuse. And for those who cry that male abuse by females is "underreported because of shame" Well, welcome to my world.

[lapislzi]

65. Thank you for sharing your story

You're both brave and lucky.

You can never second guess anyone's reasons for staying in a relationship, or point a finger and say, "you oughta do this!" Sometimes the hardest part of support is respecting the victim's decisions, even when you disagree with them.

I'm glad you got out and reclaimed your life. I hope you had lots of support.

:hug:

[lapislzi]

46. So easy to say

Often the victim (and I use that word very guardedly) has nowhere to go, no resources, has dependent children to care for, is emotionally crippled and unable to function in the world. That's how the abuser likes it.

It's very, very difficult to walk out of a violent relationship, even when you have support. Also, the danger and likelihood of violence increases after the victim leaves.

I have learned from experience working with domestic violence survivors (and being one) that you can never, ever second-guess someone's choice. Your best course is to offer the alternatives and support the victim's decision, whatever it is. That's hard to do, but the only way to maintain the victim's trust. Nothing turns them off faster than the feeling that they're being judged.

[RB TexLa]

68. I didn't say it was always an easy thing to do.

But many have.

[lapislzi]

76. Of course! I was simply cautioning against a "one size fits all" approach

to addressing the problem. I was able to leave a DV situation, but only with a great deal of support. Even then it crushed me financially. I nearly lost my home and my daughter. And I would never condemn anyone for his/her decision to stay in the relationship. It's broken my heart to see women going back to abusers, but I have to trust that the women know what they're doing; they know the choice they're making. Sometimes the choices all around are just crappy. You can't make those choices for anyone. The hardest thing to do is to step back and say, "OK, I've given you my advice, but you should do whatever you think is best. I'll continue to be here for you."

[UTUSN]

29. Sorry, but domestic violence canNOT be "ended." Neither can burglary or terrorism or anything else.

Everything can only be MANAGED.

[bridgit]

30. maybe we'll just call it something else altogether like 'something someone...

had coming to them', that would drop "domestic violence" right off the charts (you know like a line from a Stephen King book, "Well, maybe he had him some killing coming." stuff like that); that would manage the issue too i suppose :thumbsup:

[lapislzi]

48. Oh, like "Managed Care." I get it.

What is your point? Modest remediation because the problem is chronic? That makes no sense to me.

[UTUSN]

49. Your post was entirely YOUR projection. I never said anything about "modest" anything

I was responding to the o.p.'s premise that this crime, or ANY crime, or any propensity of human nature can be ELIMINATED. That was all. The rest was your confabulation.

[lapislzi]

52. I still don't get it...

What do you propose we DO about it, even if you believe ending it is an unrealistic goal? I think the OP was trying to raise awareness about the issue. Would "reduce" be a better word? For me, that seems awfully lukewarm, even though your point about unrealistic goals (if I understand your post correctly) is well taken.

Why not try? Why should this crime be an inevitability?

[UTUSN]

55. I've made MY point as clearly as I can. You continue to add your own layers of

connotation. I can't help you.

[lapislzi]

56. Well, my bad then, I guess.

I am not deliberately being obtuse. I simply do not understand the purpose of your post. To point out the obvious?

I asked you a question that you have yet to answer. Regardless of whether you believe that domestic violence will always exist, what should be done about it?

[UTUSN]

57. What good does it do for you to change the subject when you will not or cannot

process what *I've* already said to begin with.

I've answered, and will break my personal rule by summarizing:

* How can you not "understand the purpose" of my post? As I SAID, my post was in response to the o.p.'s premise about "ending".

* If I am "pointing out the obvious" why do you keep on "not understand(ing)"?

* If I had the answers to eternal human conditions I would be sitting on some cloud somewhere, receiving universal obeissance, including from you.

* I suggested regarding "what should be done about it" that it can be dealt with through "management" (the way we "manage" everything else, such as murder, rape, theft, terrorism, ad infinitum). You insist on ADDING INTERPRETATIONS with emotionally charged words, to the effect that the word "manage" is a weak response. Is the death penalty a WEAK "management" response for certain crimes? Before you ADD on YOUR interpretation, I am not prescribing that the death penalty be assigned to this-or-that: I am saying that your projection that "management" means WEAK is wrong.

That's all I have to say. And actually, I had already said it. Buh-bye.

P.S., and your "my bad" thingy is another of your interpretations. I didn't say it.

[lapislzi]

60. Thank you for explaining.

Maybe we are saying the same thing, if by "management" you mean "raise awareness" and "reduce incidence to a number approaching zero", because I am in favor of both.

And yeah, as a domestic violence survivor I tend to get emotional when the subject is raised. If my closeness to the subject matter caused me to misinterpret your post as indifference, I apologize.

[UTUSN]

62. Absolutely NO need for an apology. n/t

[B Calm]

35. 31 years ago my wife said if I ever raised a hand to her she would

leave me. She said that after I raised my voice to her. I don't remember now what we were arguing about, but I must have been scary for her to say that. Funny how after all these years of being happily married to her I still remember her saying that.

[Name removed]

90. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

38. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[lapislzi]

41. Your post fails to address other types of domestic violence

By focusing only on the most obvious, you're missing the point that domestic violence takes many forms:
--Verbal. The constant put-downs, snide remarks, public denigration, private humiliation.
--Isolation. The abuser seeks to isolate the sufferer from friends and family.
--Sexual.
--Financial. The abuser controls the finances and reduces the abused to a state of complete dependency.

Domestic violence is first and foremost about control. I was 10 years into a domestic violence relationship before my husband hit me, but by that point, I was certain I deserved it. No one goes out on a first date and beats up his/her date (and expects to go out on another date!) Domestic violence is a slow, insidious PROCESS. It occurs over time, because almost nobody would put up with severe violence early into a relationship. It starts with controlling behaviors, usually disguised as caring gestures or remarks. The other party is worn down with criticism, isolation, and control.

There is a cycle of the buildup of rage, an explosion, and a "honeymoon" phase, where the abuser promises to change and never to repeat the behavior, usually because he/she is terrified of being prosecuted/abandoned/exposed.

These types of abusive relationships almost always move on to physical violence, and in relationships where physical violence is present, the abuser almost always eventually kills the victim.

[bridgit]

44. end domestic abuse

[lapislzi]

47. Yes, I read the post. That's why I replied.

My point is that violence takes many forms. One way to end it is to educate the public on its different manifestations. Not just the woman with the black eye, but the woman who is afraid to open a bank account, or who has to use a phone card in secret to call her sister. These are all signs of domestic violence, and we can all be alert to them and maybe help to prevent that black eye before it happens.

I have counseled many survivors in many stages of abusive relationships, and some of the most satisfying were the instances where I was able to point out the patterns of abusive behavior while the woman still had a shred of self-confidence and independence--and she was able to end the relationship that much sooner, before it progressed to the inevitable violence.

There's more than one way to break the cycle.

Peace to you.

[bridgit]

50. indeed, peace to us all...

:)

[WorldResident]

51. The abuser almost always eventually kills the victim?

Without diminishing the severity of domestic violence, where are you getting this statistic from?

[lapislzi]

54. Try the NCADV for statistics

http://www.ncadv.org/learn/Statistics_115.html

I'm no math whiz, so I won't try to crunch numbers of (reported) incidents vs. murders by partners. Beyond that, I can't prove something I only know anecdotally. However, it is my experience that domestic violence is ALWAYS an escalating phenomenon within the dynamic of the relationship. Verbal abuse precedes physical abuse, which becomes more severe over time.

[raccoon]

43. There's obviously still a lot of ignorance about domestic violence,

as can be seen from some of the posts on this board.

In a patriarchal society, it's not surprising there is so much of it.

I don't believe that, as a society, we'll ever eliminate it, but we need to raise awareness of it and do as much as possible to prevent it.

[bridgit]

45. "raise awareness of it and do as much as possible to prevent it" agreed...

[Madspirit]

61. I just

...posted a list very much like this the other day. The one I find most disturbing and I don't know if it is included above...

The number one killer of pregnant women...the fists of the father of her unborn baby.
Lee

[bridgit]

67. it is all so disturbingly sad to me...

thank you for your post :hug:

[Cerridwen]

75. UN rights chief calls for action to tackle ‘plague’ of violence against women

--snip--

But she said gender-based attacks remain a cause for grave concern. “The continuing plague of violence against women…continues to be a very serious issue in times of war, in times of peace, in times of transition to peace and I think we need to be much more proactive,” Ms. Arbour said, adding she hoped this issue would be highlighted again next week on 8 March, which is International Women’s Day. (emphasis added)

“The second thematic issue…that I think should trouble all of us is the question of impunity,” she added.

--snip--

link to article

From another article in October...

Gender Violence a Universal Norm, Says U.N.

UNITED NATIONS, Oct 9 (IPS) - A 113-page landmark U.N. study on gender violence says women continue to be victims of sexual harassment, human trafficking and blatant discrimination worldwide. (emphasis in original)

"Violence against women persists in every country in the world as a pervasive violation of human rights and a major impediment to achieving gender equality," says the first-ever in-depth report on gender violence released Monday by U.N. Secretary-General Kofi Annan.

Such violence is unacceptable "whether perpetrated by the state and its agents or by family members or strangers, in the public or private sphere, in peacetime or in times of conflict." (emphasis added)

The study, which is critical of U.N. member states that have failed to adopt laws criminalising violence against women, was drafted by an advisory committee of 10 high-level internationally recognised experts in the field of gender violence.

--snip--

link to article

[bridgit]

79. thank you for posting these links...

:hi: :kick:

[Cerridwen]

81. You're welcome.

And this reply gives this a little :kick:

:hi:

[cgrindley]

78. End domestic violence now

For both sexes.

[ecstatic]

82. We also must do something about women who are attracted to violent men

Ever notice how some women tend to go from one violent relationship to the next? Something about these violent men is appealing to certain women, at least in the beginning stages.

I'm not sure what the signs are but some of us just instinctively know how to avoid those types from the jump.

Note: This in no way is a replacement for tough law enforcement for men and women who physically abuse others. I'm just saying that an awareness of how to avoid abusive types is necessary.

[lukasahero]

87. You might want to do some research on the "cycle of violence"

Most men who abuse women do not start out doing so. Most women who end up in violent relationships aren't "attracted" to violent men - the men become more violent and controlling as the relationship develops. Seriously, Google "cycle of violence" - there's a lot of information out there.

[BlooInBloo]

88. I'm WITH ya! Stupid women - they WANT to be hit!

How despicable.

[ecstatic]

92. I know it's exciting to twist people's words

But I'm just saying a course teaching women how to notice the signs of a violent man would be a great thing.

[philosophie_en_rose]

93. We must do something about violent men that prey upon vulnerable women.

I do agree with you, but I think your words could be interpreted to blame the victim - which is not what I interpret your post to mean. (correct me if I'm wrong, of course)

As a former counselor, I can tell you that perpetrators are savvy. They don't whack a woman in the face on the first meeting. So sometimes vulnerable women leaving abusive relationships are vulnerable to these apparent sweethearts who end up abusing them in the long run.

[BlackVelvet04]

95. I think the secrecy in domestic violence is what enables

domestic violence to continue. I know that in my family if one of the husbands beat on one of us my dad, brother, brothers-in-law and nephews would take care of that situation quickly.

It always amazes me how victims seem to feel more shame than the perpetrators.