The War On Immigrants: United States Is Turning Into A War Zone

[Better Believe It]

Published on Thursday, April 17, 2008 by CommonDreams.org
The War on Immigrants
by Sally Kohn
Sally Kohn is the Director of the Movement Vision Lab at the Center for Community Change


On Wednesday, federal agents backed by our precious tax dollars, banged down the doors of poultry plants in New York, Texas, Florida, West Virginia, Pennsylvania, Ohio and Georgia, threatening anyone they could find, dragging away parents without notifying their families and, all told, arresting more than 300 undocumented immigrants.

Their crime? Leaving their homes and everything they’ve ever known in search of opportunity for their families and crossing the treacherous desert boarder between the US and Mexico or overstaying their visas in order to work long hours for low pay at a poultry processing plant where, according to an expose from the Charlotte Observer worker protections are lax and severe injuries are common. The Charlotte Observer series is littered with stories and images of workers crippled by their duties, and stories of management cutting corners not only on safety but on appropriate medical treatments when problems do arise.

From the SWAT team raids on immigrants to the para-military Minutemen staking out the US-Mexico border, we’re turning our nation into a war zone in violation of every decent principle on which our nation was founded. Many Americans are not immigrants — Natives who were already here, those who were forced here. But many of us, including most of today’s anti-immigrant voices I’m afraid, are the descendents of generations who sought America’s shores as a refuge from religious intolerance or famine, who saw in our stars and stripes the twinkle of possibility that tomorrow might be better than today. The American dream may be the most powerful promise in the world. It is plainly un-American to hoard it for ourselves and deny it to those who seek it as our ancestors once did.

In the community called America, everyone is included. In the community called America, we treat everyone with dignity and respect. In the community called America, we are all striving to build a better America together. Last time I checked, we were proud to stand together for this vision, rather than breaking down doors and breaking apart families for daring to share the same hopes and dreams. Raids against immigrants are demeaning to the America I know, our moral character and community values. It’s time we end these stupid and violent raids for good.

http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2008/04/17/8348/

[Saturday]

1. In the community called Amercia we live by laws. nt

[Better Believe It]

7. I Didn't Write Those Discriminatory Laws

Did you write those laws?

And who do you think controls this so-called "community"?

I'll tell you who.

It's called the "business community"!

I and the overwhelming majority of people are not members of their community.

They write the laws.

The laws favor their class over the rest of us, including undocumented residents, of this so-called community.

You have absolutely no political power or say in that "community" you call America .... unless your part of that rich ruling elite.

[Critters2]

12. Actually, the business community ignores the laws.

Who do you think wants all that cheap labor here?

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

31. You must be bitter.

You'd have to be to turn against immigrants.

[Mountainman]

33. You more than likely selectively enforce those laws too.

It is so hilarious to hear the "rule of law" argument when it fits someone's purpose since most people break some law or other on a regular basis. It's great cover to hide behind. It allows all kinds of escape from dealing with real problems.

Civil disobedience is a great thing when laws result in immoral situations.

[proud2BlibKansan]

35. It is actually only a civil law

No more illegal than running a stop sign or driving over the speed limit. I wonder if these 'which part of illegal don't you understand' people are just as outraged over speeders in their neighborhood. Somehow I doubt it.

[Aristus]

37. Who is this "we"? Mythical magical people who would never dream of breaking the law

even if their families were starving, their country ignored their suffering, there were no jobs, there was no economic opportunities, their native country devastated by environmental exploitation???

It's not like they're committing armed robbery; they're trying to feed their families. What a crime... :eyes:

[avenger64]

60. Hear, Hear!

Our country is over-populated as it is. We can't go on straining our ecosystems by absorbing an unending stream of immigrants.

[DJ13]

2. The community called America has legal means to come here

We cannot afford to continue allowing millions of undocumented people to pour into our country.

[newfie11]

3. If jobs keep leaving here we will be headed to their country for work!!

[BunkerHill24]

5. Is estimated that

every year about 250.000 U.S. citizens leave America to make a new home in some other nation. Stats which anti-immigration folks tent to ignore...

[Lasher]

28. I would be grateful if you would provide a link to support that statistic.

And I wonder if you know how many of that number enter other countries illegally?

[BunkerHill24]

50. There are number of places you can find some stats on this...

The INS and AARP websites might help. Nevertheless it is known fact that the number of American citizens leaving the US has risen sharply over the past five years.

[Lasher]

55. So you just totally pulled that out of your ass, didn't you?

Just what I thought.

[BunkerHill24]

56. LOOL...you are quick to judge....

Why don't you do little research on your own....you would find that many Americans are relocating...

[Better Believe It]

4. What Line Must Undocumented Immigrants Get In?

What line must undocumented immigrants get in?
By Cristina Lopez
The Progressive Magazine
April 3, 2008

Enough of the anti-immigrant rhetoric already.

It’s bad enough that radio shock jocks and cable TV personalities demonize undocumented immigrants.

But what bothers me even more is the reflexive response by many well-meaning Americans that undocumented immigrants ought to “get in line and wait their turn.”

What these Americans don’t realize is that our immigration system is so broken that there is no line.

Please read the entire article at:

http://progressive.org/mp_lopez040308

[proud2BlibKansan]

13. THERE IS NO LINE

We need to shout that from the rooftops.

[Lasher]

26. They need to get into the line to leave the US

They are here without permission. Such as they are, US rules for entry need to be enforced.

[maveric]

64. They have "permission" from the businesses that lure them and hire them...

ILLEGALLY!

[proud2BlibKansan]

11. Legal means that discriminate against Central Americans

[Richard Steele]

32. Nope. This nation was FOUNDED illegally, so that don't fly.

[bean fidhleir]

6. I often wonder how many "humanitarian" organizations like that are fronts for

the rightwing. Either knowingly or as dupes. Because the ones who benefit most from unlimited immigration are the same ones that benefit from high birthrates: the rightwing elites.

The sad part is that the migrants are among the best provided in their countries of origin - the *truly* poor can't afford to pull up stakes and go elsewhere - they're barely able to keep body and soul together where they are.

[Better Believe It]

9. Prove Your Claim That Sally Kohn Is Head Of A Right-Wing Front Group!

I don't think you have the slightest bit of evidence to back up your suggestion that the Movement Vision Lab at the Center for Community Change is a right-wing political front.

And I just don't think that Sally Kohn is either a right-winger or right-wing dupe.

Now instead of baiting and name-calling how about writing about the points she made in her article?

Let's debate and stay away from name-calling.

Can you do that?

Oh .... here's the link to that "right-wing" political front group. Tell me what's right-wing about it.

http://www.movementvisionlab.org/

[bean fidhleir]

15. Can you understand the meaning of "I wonder..."?

I'm not making any claims about any specific group. I'm asking a question.

[Better Believe It]

20. Do You Agree That This Specific Group Is Not A Right-Wing Outfit?

Yes or no?

[bean fidhleir]

22. I. Don't. Know.

And neither do you. All you know is what they show you, not what they know.

[Better Believe It]

40. Don't Be Paranoid!

Do you trust anyone or are you paranoid?

We must have trust and I can find nothing on that website indicating they are some sort of super secret right-wing front group.

Just use logic. What would right-wingers gain by supporting this kind of organization?

If you haven't actually visited and investigated the website I urge you to do so now.

[proud2BlibKansan]

14. We ALL benefit from diversity

Sorry you don't see that.

[bean fidhleir]

17. In any society like this one, where to have a life requires having a job

and there are fewer jobs than there are people that need them, more people competing for those jobs are not a benefit except to the elites who want ever-cheaper and ever-more-desperate labor.

Look up Maslow's hierarchy if you don't understand that.

[proud2BlibKansan]

21. The immigrants aren't the bad guys here

Pointing your finger at them only promotes hatred and bigotry.

Yes there is a problem. You won't find the answer on Maslow's hierarchy.

[bean fidhleir]

24. Do you dispute the principle that the more people competing for jobs, the worse for

the competitors and the better for the employer? That's the bottom line here. "Which side are you on?"

[proud2BlibKansan]

29. I am on the workers' side

The bad guy is the employer who knowingly violates labor laws to hire undocumented workers.

The bad guy is our government that promotes a trade policy which has destroyed the economies of countries in Central America.

The bad guy is the racist who stands at the border and points his finger at the immigrants looking for a better life and a means to support their families.

I side with the workers. All workers. Fair wage legislation and fair trade policies will go a long way towards solving this immigration problem. Border walls and deportation are not effective.

[bean fidhleir]

38. Agreed: the employers are the bad guys. They should go to prison.

Mandatory 1 year per headcount, no probation or parole. Same for shipping jobs out of the country.

But that doesn't seem to have much to do with the thesis of the article, with its polemic title about a "war on immigrants". I don't see anything in there saying "hang the employer", only "welcome the poor widdle immigrant who's only coming here to better himself and his many children and if he does it at your expense, too bad".

[proud2BlibKansan]

42. So mistreating human beings is okay with you?

[bean fidhleir]

45. What are you talking about? Keeping econ migrants out of the US is not "mistreating" them

Unless the rest of the world is "mistreating" us.

[Mountainman]

36. If you remain unskilled you will have to compete with more and more people.

You will not help yourself by lowering the amount of applicants. You can help yourself by realizing the situation and doing something about it for yourself rather than cuss the system that you can't change.

[bean fidhleir]

41. Which side are you on?

Your thesis is chapter and verse from the GOP's "it's all your fault" playbook.

(I'm now retired at a reduced ss pension because of competition from cheap imported labor. I have 5 human languages and 6 computer ones, been to grad school, and won juried awards in two different fields. But it didn't save me. I also raised 3 kids as a single mom on my own nickel. So don't try that GOP crap on me.)

[Mountainman]

43. It has nothing to do with sides. It's reality!

Look around you! I pity people who think that somehow the government is going to come along and turn back the clock to those wonderful days when everyone had a job right out of high school.

What the hell is wrong with people? You can only see life as either right or left? It's fucking reality! Wake the hell up and smell the coffee!

[BunkerHill24]

18. "We ALL benefit from diversity"

We certainly do. Imagine without the 90 million or so immigrants admitted to the US since 1880's.

[bean fidhleir]

25. And that "90M or so" benefited the First Nations people how?

Or don't they get counted under "all"?

[Lasher]

27. And since you apparently understand your slogan better than others,

just what is it that we should do to benefit more from diversity?

[proud2BlibKansan]

30. Ask a kindergartener

Sad you would even ask that question.

[Lasher]

39. So far I'm not sure that I haven't just done exactly that.

Since you made this assertion, I am surprised to find you so shy when asked to defend it. And so, I am left to guess: From your other contributions here I suppose you think a US open border policy would promote diversity (more people from different cultures) in the US. Have I correctly interpreted your claim?

[proud2BlibKansan]

44. My claim was very simple.

We all benefit from diversity. If you don't understand what that means, then you have either never been in a diverse environment or you have avoided people who are different from you. Either way, you lose.

[bean fidhleir]

47. Simple-minded, too.

"Diversity" is not an absolute good because it always comes coupled with other things.

If a gang representing maximum ethnic and other diversities were to invade your home, it would not be made a good experience by the extent of their diversity. You would not benefit from their diversity in any way. You would be harmed by them. So to say "diversity good, uniformity bad" is truly simple-minded sloganeering, and should be beneath you.

[Lasher]

48. Things are not always as simple as they seem.

I understand how we benefit from diversity, and I agree with the principle. But surely this reply of yours was not intended to only remind us of this truth, and therefore your claim was not "that simple." Unless you meant to post that contribution in another thread or as an OP, you were making a clear assertion that immigration policy which you favor would better promote diversity and I am just asking exactly how that would work.

It seems you are in favor of a policy that would result in continued immigration of more Latinos than those from other cultures (I'm guessing again because you won't say), but do you know what percentage of US residents are currently Latinos, compared to other ethnic and racial groups? Would diversity be better promoted if a lower percentage of Latinos immigrated to the US each year, in favor of some other group such as Asians or Africans?

It just might be that your position (open borders) is defeated by the very principle (diversity) that you have cited.

[Lasher]

8. Why did Federal agents bang down the doors when company officials had cooperated before the raid?

Pilgrim's Pride spokesman Ray Atkinson emphasized that the company cooperated with ICE agents ahead of the operation and was not facing charges. Company officials also reported suspicions of identity theft at one of its Arkansas plants to the government, Atkinson said.

Did they forget the keys to the chicken plant that day? I think the author of this article is more concerned about drama than accuracy. I see the agents were supposed to have dragged away parents without notifying their families, but no mention of this:

Fifty-eight people arrested were released for humanitarian reasons, which include medical conditions or sole caregivers. Of those, 16 were released in West Virginia.

http://www.wvgazette.com/News/200804170785

I guess those 58 people had to go home and notify their families themselves. How inhumane.

[Better Believe It]

10. So You're Defending The Bush Governments Agents?

[Lasher]

23. Well, I was actually questioning the credibility of the article you posted.

And I notice that challenge has so far gone unanswered by you.

But since you asked, I applaud this action by US federal agents. People shouldn't be in the USA without permission.

[L. Coyote]

16. Poorly written weaving of disparate issues and false claims. Alarmist.

There are numerous problems, of course. But, this is a polemic essay.

[sinkingfeeling]

19. My son's assistant kitchen manager and his wife were arrested about 4 weeks ago. They both had been

in the USA for about 6 years. Both were working full time jobs, which means that federal and state income tax and SS/Medicare withholding was done. Their 3 kids were put on a bus back to Mexico (I guess to family relatives there, but can't verify) while their parents are in jail, awaiting a deportation hearing.

Even the Social Security Administration admits that from 1990-2003, over $300 billion was collected from payroll taxes under bogus Social Security numbers.

So what was accomplished other than a family has been split apart, the governments are losing $$, and the restaurant chain that my son works for has had to undergo a 'kitchen inspection' by the ICE and hired a new batch of lawyers.

"The Social Security Administration estimates that about three-quarters of illegal workers pay taxes that contribute to the overall solvency of Social Security and Medicare." -
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24054024/

"But one indicator is the 9 million W-2 forms with mismatched names and Social Security numbers it received in 2004. The IRS said the W-2 forms with invalid Social Security numbers reported about $53 billion in wages and about three-fourths of that, $40 billion in wages, had taxes withheld." -
http://www.cnn.com/2008/LIVING/personal/04/15/immigrant.taxes.ap/index.html

"Since 1990, the amount of Social Security taxes paid by illegal aliens has been increasing rapidly. Nearly $300 billion has been paid under bogus Social Security numbers." - http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1282/is_1_55/ai_96403710


edited to add references and links

[proud2BlibKansan]

34. What was accomplished?

$300 billion collected by SS that no one will ever claim and a family torn apart.

What an accomplishment, eh?

[Meiko]

61. If they are here illegally

...whose social security number are they using for tax purposes?

[sinkingfeeling]

66. Apparently a couple of the 9 million bogus numbers the SS says they collect from.

[readmoreoften]

46. Good luck. "Liberals" are as anti-immigrant as conservatives are.

The reality is, immigrants--'illegal or legal'-- are refugees of global capital. As US-based agricultural corporations and maquiladoras put the screws on the Mexican poor and working class, the workers flee in the only direction that makes sense: North. We love our cheap coffee, our cheap corn products, and our cheap clothes--as long as the slaves stay on their side of the border.

[Lasher]

49. Anti-immigrant is not the same as pro-enforcement.

But when the anti-immigrant label is used in these discussions it could create a false impression that some people are opposed to legal immigration, when they are not.

And before you bemoan the passing of the Democratic party as we once knew it, I want to point out that you will never find someone else who agrees with you on every single thing you believe in. When we organize into groups, a political party in this case, this principle becomes more prominent, so to speak. Some issues, like immigration policy, transcend political boundaries.

[proud2BlibKansan]

51. I am really getting tired of hearing people say they aren't opposed to legal immigration

That means they aren't opposed to Europeans coming here. Cause they can - legally.

Now let's look at the countries it is nearly impossible to come here from, due to quotas and legal restrictions. I'm sure it will shock you to hear every Central American country is on that list. So first we trash their economies with NAFTA then we close our borders to their people. Do you see a problem yet? :)

[Lasher]

53. I'm sorry it tires you to have your obfuscations frustrated by truth.

According to this study by the US Department of Immigration and Naturalization Service, the total US foreign-born population in 2000 was 31 million. 7 million of them were unauthorized, so the total authorized foreign-born population was 24 million.

Of this authorized population, 4.8 million were from Europe, 7.6 million were from Asia, 0.7 million were from Africa, 145 thousand were from Oceania, and 10 million were Latinos (North America and South America minus Canada). Of the total foreign born authorized population in the USA, less than 20% were from Europe and almost half were Latinos.

I'm sure you'll be relieved to learn, as these statistics clearly show, that US immigration policy is not biased against Latinos, in favor of Europeans. In fact, Latinos comprise a disproportionate percentage of the authorized foreign-born population in the US.

[proud2BlibKansan]

57. Latinos wait for years to immigrate legally; Europeans don't

My European co-worker waited 4 years once she got here to become a citizen. Latinos often wait 4 years just to be approved to come here. The current waiting time for an appointment to begin the immigration process for a Latino is 18 months. There is no wait for Europeans.

There are quoatas in our immigration laws. http://www.kkeane.com/quota-faq.shtmlaaa

Yes our immigration system is biased against Latinos, also against Chinese.

[Lasher]

62. Long waiting times are a consequence of the large number of Latinos who want to immigrate to the US

And not an indication of US bias against Latinos, as the statistics I furnished clearly show. We shouldn't base our immigration policies on how many people sign up. And we can't just fling open our borders and welcome every single person who wants to live here.

Furnished statistics show that the region from which the US most needs to welcome a larger percentage of our immigrants is Africa. But if you actually care nothing about the concept of diversity (which you endorsed upthread) and are just pontificating to gain whatever advantage you can for Latinos, then I'm sure my point shall have fallen on deaf ears.

[Better Believe It]

52. Legalize The Immigrants! It's All About Class

Those who don't identify with undocumented workers generally don't think in terms of class and don't feel any class solidarity against our common enemies at home and abroad. When they speak of the government they use the term "we" instead of "them" .... as if the government represented the majority class. It doesn't speak and act for me and the great majority. It represents money.
Big money.

I have no problem with millions of immigrants coming to the United States from other lands. Others do. It seems that one of the main objections to the migration is the "violation" of immigration laws .

There is a simple solution to this "problem".

Legalize the 12 million immigrants!

And than help the labor movement organize millions of undocumented workers in order to vastly improve their working conditions which will in turn help to improve working persons life.

[OmahaBlueDog]

54. Wouldn't it be better if Mexican immigrants stayed and fought for a better Mexico?

I realize many of these immigrants are not Mexican. Having said that, Mexicans coming here, and working hard (which is admirable and honorable) and sending a few bucks back home isn't fixing Mexico's corrupt government. At some point, they need to stand, and fight to fix Mexico.

[Better Believe It]

59. Many Are Doing That And US Labor Unions Are Helping

Read this article on the AFL-CIO working with Mexican workers rights organizations:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=3176225&mesg_id=3176225

[Orsino]

58. Their crime? Not carrying proof of citizenship while looking Mexican. n/t

[LBJDemocrat]

63. Their crime:

Being used as pawns by business to flood the labor market, thereby depressing wages.

[Better Believe It]

65. And The Solution Is Very Simple ....

Legalize the undocumented workers and organize them into strong unions!

That will helpimprove the wages and working conditions of all workers, citizens and non-citizens alike.