Rev. Wright: "How many years did (Vice President Dick) Cheney serve?"

[sabra]

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/04/wright-assails.html

<snip>

Asked about those who wondered about his love of the U.S. in light of his "God d--- America" comments during a sermon, Wright said "those citizens who say that have never heard my sermons, nor do they know me...I served six years in the military, does that make me patriotic? How many years did (Vice President Dick) Cheney serve?"

He underlined that whatever he has said about America was "about policy, not the American people."

[Kittycat]

1. I love it... Last night and today he stuck it to them.

And I LOVED the audience response, not just from last night - but more so today, since it was a mixed audience.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

11. Not only did he served as a Marine...

But he forgets to point out that he went back to serve in the Navy as well. Wright is a true American hero! Point blank...

[Dinger]

2. Ya Gotta Like That (nt)

[zabet]

3. McVeigh served in the military too....

does that mean he loves America and the American people?

[book_worm]

4. are you trying to equate McVeigh with Pastor Wright?

he made a valid point about those who attack him for his comments who are chicken hawks.

[zabet]

13. Just pointing out that serving America in the military is not

necessarily a sign of patriotism or love of America.

[MethuenProgressive]

66. It is a valid point. In Wright's time petty criminals were often sent into the service.

With DU being such an anti-Military site, it's odd seeing Wright called 'hero' here.

[NYCGirl]

73. Wright wasn't "sent into the service". He VOLUNTEERED even though he had a

student deferment. After serving in the Marines, he volunteered for the Navy.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/chi-oped0404wrightapr03,0,92000.story

In 1961, a young African-American man, after hearing President John F. Kennedy's challenge to, "Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country," gave up his student deferment, left college in Virginia and voluntarily joined the Marines.

In 1963, this man, having completed his two years of service in the Marines, volunteered again to become a Navy corpsman. (They provide medical assistance to the Marines as well as to Navy personnel.)

The man did so well in corpsman school that he was the valedictorian and became a cardiopulmonary technician. Not surprisingly, he was assigned to the Navy's premier medical facility, Bethesda Naval Hospital, as a member of the commander in chief's medical team, and helped care for President Lyndon B. Johnson after his 1966 surgery. For his service on the team, which he left in 1967, the White House awarded him three letters of commendation.

What is even more remarkable is that this man entered the Marines and Navy not many years after the two branches began to become integrated.

[CBGLuthier]

5. You are beneath contempt

This may be the most reprehensible thing I have ever read on DU.

[zabet]

14. Facts bother you that much? Do you fear the truth when

it does not fit into your little notion of what the world must be?

[CBGLuthier]

19. I have lived in Oklahoma City for 30 years

You make me sick.

[zabet]

So? I lost my brother-in-law in the Oklahoma City bombing.

That still does not change what I pointed out, McVeigh served, Wright said he served and that proved he was patriotic. Not an ideal statement to make when he has done many other things that would have served him better to use to prove his point.

[sabra]

26. I am sorry for your loss - I believe Wright may have been speaking rhetorically?

"does that make me patriotic?" - it looks like it was more of a slam on those who tried to smear him (Cheney being one of them)...

[zabet]

31. Thank you.

I am trying to point out that Wright could have proved his point with examples of the good works he has done since he has been a minister, much better than just saying "I served..".

[Name removed]

Deleted message

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[Name removed]

37. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[frogcycle]

56. I won't bother to respond to the brain-dead

but I will comment that I, for one, understand that you were not "equating" anyone to anyone. The degree to which people on this board do the exact same thing as all the sub-par-IQ idiots in the media is on the one hand, astonishing, but on the other, actually to be expected. The press would not get away with serving up bs if there were not a huge audience ready to eat it.

Your point was well taken. I thought at the time that he had not chosen his words particularly well to make the point he intended. That he "served," in and of itself, proves nothing. Your example of one for whom military service would not make the point Rev Wright meant to make for himself is a good one. Another would be Lee Harvey Oswald.

People seem unable to deal in facts; they must let emotion cloud their every communication.

[zabet]

62. Thank you! nt

[malaise]

43. Couldn't say it better

:rofl:

[rodeodance]

69. so sorry to hear that. And your point is well taken. Thanks.

[Jamastiene]

68. ...

http://www.youtube.com/v/jEueMbpwBhA

[mtnsnake]

71. You're not too much of a drama queen are ya?

Good grief...

[libnnc]

7. you're defending Darth Cheney?

stuck on stupid right there.

[zabet]

15. No. Why is pointing out a fact stupid?

What is stupid is wearing blinders and earplugs and refusing to hear or see anything that does not help polish Obama's or Wright's image.

[libnnc]

20. McVeigh was a wacked out tweaker meth head

who turned his life to shit after his stint in the service

how can you equate the two?

[zabet]

25. McVeigh served.

Wright said he served and that proved he was patriotic. A bad comparison. Not in any place did I equate the two. Just pointed out that other people could say that too and it did not necessarily equate with meaning you love America.

[hlthe2b]

8. Are you really meaning to equate the two?

That leaves me horrified....

[zabet]

17. Facts cause you to make quantum leaps in reasoning.

Just pointed out a fact, why does the truth make Obama supporters go into meltdown mode?

[hlthe2b]

45. My comment has NOTHING to do with Obama...

I am not rabidly supporting one candidate over the other, but will absolutely support the nominee. But, that really isn't the point is it, citizen_jane? :eyes:

[zabet]

52. Oh my. Ladies and Gentlemen...

we have a mind-reader here! One so great they can reach across the internets and know what you are thinking! Hurry! Get your tinfoil on tight before they read your mind!!!!!!!

:rofl: How insane are you to think you know what I think and what my point is?

[hlthe2b]

55. So insecure you crave attention, eh CJ?

Enjoy your 15 minutes of infamy with your inane comparisons.

[zabet]

57. Nah..If I craved attention I would pretend to be an Obama supportert...

cause then everyone on DU would love me then. :rofl:

[atreides1]

12. At one time yes, but something changed him.

Possibly this:

After leaving the Army in 1992, McVeigh's lifestyle grew increasingly transient. At first he worked briefly near his hometown Pendleton, as a security guard. Then in 1993, he drove to Waco, Texas during the Waco Siege to sell bumper stickers. McVeigh spent time on the gun show circuit, moving from show to show. He sold copies of The Turner Diaries, and a flare gun that he said could shoot down an, "ATF helicopter." One author said, "In the gun show culture, McVeigh found a home. Though he remained skeptical of some of the most extreme ideas being bandied around, he liked talking to people there about the United Nations, the federal government, and possible threats to American liberty."

McVeigh also used methamphetamines.

McVeigh instructed his lawyers to use a necessity defense. They argued that his bombing of the Murrah building was a justifiable response to what McVeigh believed were the crimes of the U.S. government at Waco, Texas, during the 51-day siege of the Branch Davidian complex that resulted in the death of 76 Branch Davidian members. As part of his defense, McVeigh's lawyers showed the controversial video Waco: The Big Lie to the jury.

So the question is not did 'McVeigh love America or the American people'? The question is why did he hate the US Government?

[Name removed]

21. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[grannylib]

18. He wasn't stating that his service made him patriotic; he was

questioning WHETHER military service automatically makes one patriotic. I think he was making the point that one might question Cheney the Dick's patriotism, if military service were ALL that one can consider as a qualification.
He wasn't saying that he's automatically a patriot because of his military service.

[zabet]

27. Wright when asked if he loved America explained his service

as an example (or proof) that he did love America.

[libnnc]

35. just curious...what did you think of John Kerry's patriotism?

Did you toss around this same argument then?

[zabet]

41. John Kerry is not being discussed here, Wright is.

As far as Kerry goes, he got screwed by the swift-boaters but, he was never a choice of mine until he got the nomination and I had no choice but Kerry or Bush....and I voted Kerry.

[libnnc]

44. did you lob this same argument about Kerry's service ?

Did you say--"Well, McVeigh served too..." when ALL of us pointed out the obvious-->Dick Cheney/GWB = Chickenhawk

Answer the fucking question.

[grannylib]

I understand he was responding to a question, but I still believe

he was answering it with a rhetorical question of his own; I think he was acknowledging that people define patriotism in different ways. Some obviously feel that if you don't support the war on Iraq or want to bring the troops home, you're not a patriot; others feel that bringing the troops home and funding the VA and dissenting when our government is wrong is the highest form or patriotism...

Please understand, I'm not trying to pick a fight with you :-) I'm just trying to explain how I took his statement.

[zabet]

42. No problem. I can see what you are saying.

We just have different perspectives and that can be a great thing when ideas and thoughts are being discussed.

[graycem]

61. You don't think the fact

that he VOLUNTEERED to serve as a point that he loved America? I do.

Tim McVeigh became a whackjob who killed people. Does that mean he never loved his country and was never patriotic at the time of his service?

Rev. Wright has killed how many people?

Dick Cheney is who he was comparing his patriotism with, so I don't see how that can be a wrong comparison to make. He simply addressed their "idea" of patriotism, and when people think patriotism, you cannot deny they assume that the people in the military are patriotic. Did you ever consider Bush or Cheney chickenhawks? I think that was the point he was making.

Was there ever a time that you might've cheered on what he said and you're just using this because you do not support Senator Obama? Or are you always this principled?

[kestrel91316]

36. THANK YOU.

[hlthe2b]

47. Exactly.... grannylib n/t

But, it appears our "citizen" wants to shock....

[northzax]

22. and that Oswald fellow

let alone such luminaries as Rumsfeld.

[kestrel91316]

28. You didn't actually just compare Rev. Wright to Tim McVeigh, did you?

SHAME on you.

If I were you, I'd be too embarrassed to ever show my sorry face around DU again.

[zabet]

48. Reading comprehension....is a good thing.

Get yourself some.

I made the point that military service does not necessarily equate patriotism or love for America.

[libnnc]

50. Did you make that same argument when John Kerry was our nominee?

ANSWER THE FUCKING QUESTION.

[zabet]

53. John Kerry is not being discussed here, Wright is.

I was not a posting member of DU at the time so I did not get to defend Kerry here.

[IronLionZion]

29. Maybe at one point, but not when he murdered Americans in the OK city bombing.

Since you are all about facts, whoever has the most delegates wins the nomination.

[zabet]

54. Nice throw in about the delegates...now tell me....

where have you seen me arguing about the delegates? hmmmmmm? Can't do it because I haven't. Since you agree to being about facts.

[frogcycle]

60. here's another fact

tomorrow is Tuesday.

[hwmnbn]

33. I'd say he loved America and the American people...

more than Cheney.

So on the patriotism continuum it's like this....


Rev. Wright served in the military and is not responsible for any American deaths... patriotic

McVeigh served in the military and was responsible for 168 American deaths... not patriotic

Cheney never served in the military AND is responsible for 4000 and counting American deaths... treasonous

[juno jones]

67. From what I have gathered,

Wright has also saved the life and salved the soul of TWO American Presidents, LBJ, being the first, and Bill Clinton the latter.

What could McVeigh or Cheney do to even approach this accomplishment, one that would be dependent on compassion, patriostism and a certain level of trust?

[LanternWaste]

46. I believe the good Rev. is simply using the GOP's "moral ownership" of patriotism

I believe the good Rev. is simply using the GOP's "moral ownership" of patriotism, the military and all thing American, against the Vice President. In effect, turning around the very sound bites of the right to use against them.

I seriously doubt that the good Rev. was stating that love of America is predicated on serving in the military-- though I suppose one could argue that if they so chose...

[frogcycle]

59. Do you feel a little like

you walked up to a fishtank and just slapped the glass real hard?

Or maybe set of a firecracker in a bat cave?

what a shitstorm you provoked! :)

I just love it when a make a simple declarative sentence and people proceed to read paragraphs of nuance and ulterior motive into it.

I could walk outside and say "it looks like rain" and someone would say "why do you hate Muraca?"


You must feel a little like you need a shower!

[zabet]

64. ....

:applause: Thank you.

[Cameron27]

70. It's unbelievable, isn't it?

There seems to be an awful lot of mind-readers posting here too.

[RufusTFirefly]

63. Yikes! That'll teach you to think critically, cj!

Nuance? What the fuck is nuance?

[crimsonblue]

75. hi mister troll. Are you one of those bridge trolls, or are you a troll doll, or

or do you just like going on lazy Sunday trolls?

[Yupster]

6. I guess I'm coming from a very different background, but

that's just nothing like anything any pastor I've ever listened to in my church would say.

My pastor would never defend himself by attacking/ comparing himself to someone else. I'd be absolutely shocked if he/she did. (He/she because we are right in the middle of switching pastors in my church from a he to a she.)

I don't really care what Wright says, but he doesn't sound like any preacher I've ever listened too.

[MidwestTransplant]

10. Me neither. That's why I am not writing his name in on the ballot in Nov.

[Supersedeas]

24. but that won't stop the chattering class from connecting an Obama vote with a vote for Wright

[Doityourself]

30. I've listened to many black preachers in my life..and I've heard many sound like Wright..even some

southern white preachers..all in traditional fire and brimstone, Baptist churches.

[hwmnbn]

39. He's different.... but not deficient...

is that what you're getting at?

[kestrel91316]

40. My guess is you don't attend a traditionally black church.

[Yupster]

76. Nope - traditional Methodist church

Mostly white. Growing Hispanic population.

Just not the Methodist way to attack.

[frogcycle]

65. gee, you made his point!

[keep_it_real]

9. It will be interesting to see if Cheney responds

[lpbk2713]

16. Thanks for the opportunity ....

I like to point out the one thing most RWers have in common whenever I get the chance ...

the fact that most of them are chickenhawks. They might talk a good game but when it comes

right down to backing up their pathetic words it all falls flat.


Rethuglicans don't ever serve in the military, they expect someone else to do their fighting for them.

They are so dense they need to have it pointed out to them every now and then how their heroes had other plans when it came time to defend their country. So here goes ...



The rethuglicans and their 'distinguished' records of defending their country ....


George W. Bush: failed to complete his six-year National Guard; Daddy got him assigned to Alabama so he could campaign for family friend running for U.S. Senate; failed to show up when ordered for required medical exam, disappeared from duty.
Ronald Reagan: due to alleged poor eyesight, served in a non-combat role making movies.
Dick Cheney: did not serve. Several deferments, the last by marriage.
Jeb Bush: did not serve.
Karl Rove: did not serve.
Newt Gingrich: did not serve.
Dennis Hastert: did not serve.
Tom Delay: did not serve.
Roy Blunt: did not serve.
Bill Frist: did not serve.
Mitch McConnell: did not serve.
Rick Santorum: did not serve.
Trent Lott: did not serve.
John Ashcroft: did not serve. Seven deferments.
Saxby Chambliss: did not serve. "Bad knee." The man who attacked Max Cleland's patriotism.
Paul Wolfowitz: did not serve.
Richard Perle: did not serve.
Douglas Feith: did not serve.
Eliot Abrams: did not serve
Phil Gramm: did not serve.
Dana Rohrabacher: did not serve.
John M. McHugh: did not serve.
JC Watts: did not serve.
Jack Kemp: did not serve. "Knee problem," although continued in NFL for 8 years.
Dan Quayle: Journalism unit of the Indiana National Guard.
Rudy Giuliani: did not serve.
George Pataki: did not serve.
Spencer Abraham: did not serve.
John Engler: did not serve.
Lindsey Graham: National Guard lawyer.
Arnold Schwarzenegger: AWOL from Austrian army base.


Pundits & Preachers


Rush Limbaugh: did not serve (4-F due to pimples on his ass)
Sean Hannity: did not serve.
Bill O'Reilly: did not serve.
Michael Savage: did not serve.
George Will: did not serve.
Chris Matthews: did not serve.
Paul Gigot: did not serve.
Bill Bennett: did not serve.
Pat Buchanan: did not serve.
John Wayne: did not serve.
Bill Kristol: did not serve.
Kenneth Starr: did not serve.
Antonin Scalia: did not serve.
Clarence Thomas: did not serve.
Ralph Reed: did not serve.
Michael Medved: did not serve.
Charlie Daniels: did not serve.
Ted Nugent: did not serve.

[Doityourself]

34. Great post!!!

[malaise]

51. Fabulous

Bravo!

[chat_noir]

58. Ted Nugent: Call him Chickenhawk

In that 1990 interview with the Free Press and from information collected from the Chickenhawk Web site, Nugent told about how he avoided the draft: "He claims that 30 days before his Draft Board Physical, he stopped all forms of personal hygiene. The last 10 days he ingested nothing but junk food and Pepsi, and a week before his physical, he stopped using the bathroom altogether, virtually living inside his pants caked with excrement and urine. That spectacle won Nugent a deferment."

[Swamp Rat]

23. k&r

[Rhiannon12866]

32. K&R. Great post! And the best line anybody's said for a long time...

The American people need to be reminded about the lack of military service of those who led us into this tragic war. And, fortunately, that seems to be the sound byte that the MSM picked up on, and are playing it, over and over...:applause:

[bdamomma]

38. I hope the Rev. Wright's truth will skewer Dick Cheney's arrogance

[1776Forever]

49. I am a huge fan of this man! I wish he would go on TV on Sunday's I might go back to "church"

:loveya:

[Catherine Vincent]

72. ooh, that will definitely piss off the conservatives. heh heh!

Wright should watch out for Buckshot Cheney!

[crimsonblue]

74. Cheney served 20 years under the tutelage of Darth Sidius

and another 5 or so working for Satan. What's the old saying? "In an hierarchy, people rise to the level of their evilness"