Need some help with a fucking rupuke email chain letter

[Maraya1969]

I got this in an email and I imagine it will be ciculating. I admit I have not tried to figure this out myself yet because I just woke up, read my mail, threw up a little and have to go back to bed.

So if this has been debunked in one big whole area that would be great if you could just lead me to it.

I really think we should have a forum with these emails and some appropriate responses so we can just shoot things right back at the bastards.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This is interesting...

Part 1

In just 16 months.. Remember the election in 2006?

Thought you might like to read the following:

A little over 16 MONTHS ago:

1) Consumer confidence stood at a 2 1/2 year high;

2) Regular gasoline sold for $2.19 a gallon;

3) The unemployment rate was 4.5%.

Since voting in a Democratic Congress in 2006 we have seen:

1) Consumer confidence plummet;

2) The cost of regular gasoline soar to over $3.50 a gallon;

3) Unemployment is up to 5% (a 10% increase);

4) American households have seen $2.3 trillion in equity value evaporate

(stock and mutual fund losses);

5) Americans have seen their home equity drop by $1.2 trillion dollars;

6) 1% of American homes are in foreclosure.

America voted for change in 2006, and we got it!

Remember it's Congress that makes law not the President. He has to work

with what's handed to him.

Quote of the Day........'My friends, we live in the greatest nation in

the history of the world. I hope you'll join with me as we try to

change it.'

-- Barack Obama

Part 2:

Taxes...Whether Democrat or a Republican you will find these statistics

enlightening and amazing.

www.taxfoundation.org/publications/show/151.html

http://www.taxfoundation.org/publications/show/151.html>

Taxes under Clinton 1999 Taxes under Bush 2008

Single making 30K - tax $8,400 Single making 30K - tax $4,500

Single making 50K - tax $14,000 Single making 50K - tax $12,500

Single making 75K - tax $23,250 Single making 75K - tax $18,750

Married making 60K - tax $16,800 Married making 60K- tax $9,000

Married making 75K - tax $21,000 Married making 75K - tax $18,750

Married making 125K - tax $38,750 Married making 125K - tax $31,250

Both democratic candidates will return to the higher tax rates

It is amazing how many people that fall into the categories above think

Bush is screwing them and Bill Clinton was the greatest President ever.

If Obama or Hillary are elected, they both say they will repeal the Bush

tax cuts and a good portion of the people that fall into the categories

above can't wait for it to happen. This is like the movie The Sting with

Paul Newman; you scam somebody out of some money and they don't even

know what happened.

PART 3:

You think the war in Iraq is costing us too much? Read this:

Boy, am I confused. I have been hammered with the propaganda that it is

the Iraq war and the war on terror that is bankrupting us. I now find

that to be RIDICULOUS.

I hope the following 14 reasons are forwarded over and over again until

they are read so many times that the reader gets sick of reading them.

I have included the URL's for verification of all the following facts.

1. $11 Billion to $22 billion is spent on welfare to illegal aliens

each year by state governments.

Verify at: http://tinyurl.com/zob77

http://tinyurl.com/zob77

2. $2.2 Billion dollars a year is spent on food assistance programs

such as food stamps, WIC, and free school lunches for illegal aliens.

Verify at: http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/fiscalexec.html

http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/fiscalexec.html

3. $2.5 Billion dollars a year is spent on Medicaid for illegal

aliens.

Verify at:

http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/fiscalexec.html

http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/fiscalexec.html

4. $12 Billion dollars a year is spent on primary and secondary

school

education for children here illegally and they cannot speak a word of

English!

Verify at:

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.0.html

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.0.html

5. $17 Billion dollars a year is spent for education for the

American-born children of illegal aliens, known as anchor babies.

Verify at

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html

6. $3 Million Dollars a DAY is spent to incarcerate illegal aliens.

Verify at:

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html

7. 30% percent of all Federal Prison inmates are illegal aliens.

Verify at:

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html

8. $90 Billion Dollars a year is spent on illegal aliens for Welfare &

social services by the American taxpayers.

Verify at: http://premium.cnn.com/TRANSCIPTS/0610/29/ldt.01.html

http://premium.cnn.com/TRANSCIPTS/0610/29/ldt.01.html

9. $200 Billion Dollars a year in suppressed American wages are caused

by the illegal aliens.

Verify at: http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html

10. The illegal aliens in the United States have a crime rate that's

two and a half times that of white non-illegal aliens. In particular,

their children, are going to make a huge additional crime problem in the

US

Verify at:

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0606/12/ldt.01.html

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0606/12/ldt.01.html

11. During the year of 2005 there were 4 to 10 MILLION illegal aliens

that crossed our Southern Border also, as many as 19,500 illegal aliens

from Terrorist Countries. Millions of pounds of drugs, cocaine, meth,

heroin and marijuana, crossed into the U. S from the Southern border.

Verify at: Homeland Security Report:

http://tinyurl.com/t9sht http://tinyurl.com/t9sht

12. The National Policy Institute, 'estimated that the total cost of

mass deportation would be between $206 and $230 billion or an average

cost of between $41 and $46 billion annually over a five year period.'

Verify at:

http://www.nationalpolicyinstitute.org/pdf/deportation.pdf

http://www.nationalpolicyinstitute.org/pdf/deportation.pdf

13. In 2006 illegal aliens sent home $45 BILLION in remittances back to

their countries of origin.

Verify at:

http://www.rense.com/general75/niht.htm

http://www.rense.com/general75/niht.htm

14. 'The Dark Side of Illegal Immigration: Nearly One Million Sex

Crimes Committed by Illegal Immigrants In The United States .'

Verify at:

http://www.drdsk.com/articleshtml http://www.drdsk.com/articleshtml

The total cost is a whopping $ 338.3 BILLION DOLLARS A YEAR.

Are we THAT stupid?

If this doesn't bother you then just delete the message. If, on the

other hand, it does raise the hair on the back of your neck, I hope you

forward it to every legal resident in the country including every

representative in Washington , D.C. - five times a week for as long as

it takes to restore some semblance of intelligence in our policies and

enforcement thereof.

[Eagle_Eye]

1. They are cherry picking data

Where to start on something like this? I must admit, I did not read the whole thing. When I got to the part about Bill Clinton, my first reaction was "President Clinton is not running in this race, why is he important?"

The second thing I thought about the 2006 elections:

The Economy moves slowly with a considerable amount of inertia. Bush and his republicans had six years to mess it up, it will take the Democrats six years to fix it.

[EV_Ares]

3. Well, for one thing, I think the tax issue is bunk, eom.

Single making 30K - tax $8,400 Single making 30K - tax $4,500

Single making 50K - tax $14,000 Single making 50K - tax $12,500

Single making 75K - tax $23,250 Single making 75K - tax $18,750

Married making 60K - tax $16,800 Married making 60K- tax $9,000

Married making 75K - tax $21,000 Married making 75K - tax $18,750

Married making 125K - tax $38,750 Married making 125K - tax $31,250

[Eagle_Eye]

The whole intent of emails like this are bunk

As soon as I see the email is trying to influence me with numbers that are compared in a narrow way, I usually just send it to the bit bucket.

There is term that needs to be communicated to people using data in an argument:

Correlation in and of itself does not prove causation.

[EV_Ares]

6. Right-on, eom.

[Lasher]

11. Is the children learning?

Repukes need to learn their basic arithmetic.

Like so many GOP liemails going around, this one incorporates prior fabrications. The tax section of this one was debunked here when it showed up before in a comparison of Clinton and Bush taxes.

Whoever produced this chart simply applied tax tables from 1999 and 2008 to various income amounts, apparently without understanding the difference between marginal tax rates and average tax rates and
apparently without understanding the difference between marginal tax rates and average tax rates and without allowing for even the standard deduction. As The Tax Foundation noted, when those factors are correctly applied, the numbers should look like this:

Taxes under CLINTON 1999 Taxes under BUSH 2008

Single making 30K - tax $3,157.50 Single making 30K - tax $2,756.25
Single making 50K - tax $7,262.50 Single making 50K - tax $6,606.25
Single making 75K - tax $14,262.50 Single making 75K - tax $12,856.25
Married making 60K - tax $6,585.00 Married making 60K - tax $5,512.50
Married making 75K - tax $9,426.50 Married making 75K - tax $7,762.50
Married making 125K - tax $23,426.50 Married making 125K - tax $19,462.50

Errors aside, the limited amount of simplified information offered here (which assumes all taxpayers have no children and take the standard deduction, doesn't account for inflation or the Alternative Minimum Tax, etc.) provides only a small glimpse of a much larger and complex whole.

[davekriss]

30. Argh! didn't see this

I read down and replied to post 3 and didn't read to here to learn you dealt with the arithmatic challenges already quite nicely. :)

[krispos42]

15. Um, yeah... inflation much?

A person making a taxable $30k in 2000 had a lot more buying power than that same person in 2008.

And what about income from unearned capital gains, like stock dividends? Those are only taxed at 15%, and are mostly owned by rich wealthy people, so the effective tax rate for many upper-income people is a low lower than earned income from actual work.

[davekriss]

29. A mathematically-challenged chain mailer, obviously

Unf*cking-believable. The numbers are made up! They don't correspond to the facts as given by the idiot's cite! For example, a single person who has a net taxable income (after deductions and exemptions) of $30,000 in 1999 paid $5,052 in federal income tax, not $8,400. In 2008, the same taxpayer at $30,000 pays $4,099 in taxes, not $4,500. So the real numbers are $5,052 in 1999 vs. $4,099 in 2008. But what about the effects of inflation?

$30,000 in 1999 is just not the same as $30,000 in 2008. In fact, if we convert the 1999 figure to the equivalent income today (using the aggressively understated inflation rates of http://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/cpicalc.pl), then we need to make $38,684 today. A single taxpayer in 2008 making $38,684 after deductions and exemptions pays $5,219 in taxes, which compares quite nicely to the $5,052 paid in 1999.

The easiest way to compare the two is looking at net effective tax rates. A $30,000 income in 1999 paid a net 16.8% in federal income taxes. A $38,684 income in 2008 paid a net 13.5%. So, yes, the $30,000 single earner is paying less today than in 1999, but nothing like the $8400 (28%) vs. $4500 (15%) comparison by the obviously dishonest or cognitively challenged chain mailer.

Just to complete the figure, the 2008 equivalent of a 1999 income of $125,000 is $161,182. A married earner making $161,182 in 2008 pays a net 21.0% in federal income tax. An earner making $125,000 in 1999 paid a net 24.0% in federal income tax. Again, a small improvement over 1999, but nothing like the distorted comparison of the chain mailer (31% vs. 25%).

So, what did this pedestrian 3% in tax savings get us? About $3 to $4 trillion in additional debt, which puts in jeopardy our very social fabric, never mind education, health, social security, and our ability to fight necessary wars.

Meanwhile what was the shift for someone earning $10,000,000 in 1999 dollars and the equivalent $12,894,500 today? Hmmm. Let's see. The $10 million in 1999 paid $3,933,161 in federal income taxes, or 39.3%. A $12,894,500 income today pays $4,484,664, or 34.8%, an improvement of 4.5%. For this betterment of 50% over the vast horde of rascal multitudes of which I proudly count myself as part, the Republican Party was willing to throw the future quality of life of 99.9% of us over the side. This, for the equivalent of a Ferrari in every fat cat's garage. Great deal, huh?

One would have to be an idiot to see an improvement in our situation. But, then, most Republicans earning less than $345,000 per year are blind idiots. Certainly any Republican in the pedestrian incomes quoted by the chain mailer.

[Rhiannon12866]

2. Try this:

This is false. Snopes is your friend and I get these, too, and always check with Snopes, first...:hi:

Voting for Change
http://www.snopes.com/politics/business/votedforchange.asp

[hobbit709]

4. Yep. Snopes and "Reply All"

That will get you off their mailing list.

[Maraya1969]

8. THANK YOU!!!! I usually put something in GOOGLE and then put "hoax"

after it but there were so many figures in it I didn't know how to do it, (or maybe I was just lazy...it's very early in the morning and my brain can't remember that far back)

[Rhiannon12866]

16. You're more than welcome, my friend!

I get these things, too, about Obama being a Muslim or refusing to say The Pledge of Allegiance, that kind of bunk, and from people who should know better. But too many people just send this crap on. I always remind them that Snopes is your friend, LOL, and reply with the link. I'm hoping that they'll pass it on. :D

And I sure understand about not being awake. I worked nights for 15 years, so I'm never awake in the morning. :hangover: But all you have to do is a quick search on Snopes (I looked for Democratic Congress), and you'll find your rebuttal...:hi:

http://www.snopes.com/

[Maraya1969]

9. LOL I was able to "Reply to all" - about 50 people!

[Lasher]

13. Good for you!

Here, have this ready in case any of them is fool enough to reply:

Jawbone of an Ass

Candidate George W. Bush blamed President Clinton and Vice President Gore for 'high' gas prices at the time without blaming Congressional Republicans who had held the majority for six years. Now wingnuts want to blame Congressional Democrats, who have had majority control for one year and four months, while leaving President Jawbone out of the discussion?

When Junior assumed the throne on January 22, 2001, gas was $1.46 a gallon. Now it's $3.78. Prices haven't quite tripled yet but this nightmare won't be over until January 2009.

[Rhiannon12866]

18. That is so cool!

I'm glad I could help! And, hopefully, your recipients will think twice about sending this stuff on, the next time...;) :hi:

[MountainLaurel]

19. Let us know if you get any responses

Some people hate to be confronted with their own ignorance.

[Perry Logan]

5. Ah, the sweet smell of cooked stats!

It reminds me of the gun guys, who always produce statistics proving that guns are as nurturing as mother's milk.

[fasttense]

7. Well, for one, the tax table they post is wrong.

They seemed to have mixed up marginal tax rate and average tax rate. Overall, it has decreased across the board. With the wealthy receiving a 17% decrease and the middle class receiving a 13% decrease. But the simple chart, even if it was correct, doesn't begin to capture what people actually pay.

There is the alternative minimum tax that was not included, along with deductions, loopholes and write offs. Then comes the big tax of Social Security and Medicare that those who make less than $90,000 are required by law to pay on every last cent they earn, while those making over $90,000, or simply sitting by the pool waiting for their dividend checks, don't pay. Of course we don't touch State taxes which frequently had to be increased to compensate for the lack of federal funds. States, counties and cities like to put the tax burden on sales. Local and state taxes cost the poor and middle class more than the uber wealthy, cause the uber wealthy don't have to spend every last dime they make to take care of their families.

And we could go on. It's so easy to make everything appear rosy when you ignore facts.

[jmowreader]

10. The tax data ALONE damns the whole thing

Whoever worked the tax numbers worked it as the whole amount is taxable, and the whole amount is taxed at the highest marginal rate for any of the income.

I redid these numbers once using the standard deduction and the actual tax tables for the years in question--1999 and, IIRC, 2006. The ACTUAL Clinton numbers, while higher than Bush's numbers (but, in the case of the lower-paid taxpayers, not by much), were lower than the numbers the freeper used for Bush. That's using standard deduction in all cases, and in the case of a married taxpayer I decided they had two children. I think I've still got the spreadsheet at home and can dig it up later if you'd like.

I also love the illegal-immigrant information. Apparently the War on Terra is just a trifle and we'd be in Fat City if we'd just deport all those nasty illegals. The part about the illegals sending home the $45 billion, most if not all of which they made from Private Sector Employers (at sub-minimum wages), is really killer. As in "credibility killer."

[Lasher]

12. There is a forum where we share propaganda debunking.

It's the DU propaganda debunking group.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topics&forum=284

[Rhiannon12866]

20. I had no idea! Thank you for pointing this out!

And I've been on DU for more than five years... I learn something new here everyday. This group is going in my forums...:hi:

[Lasher]

22. Great, we need more people just like you in the Propaganda Debunking group!

You were pretty quick on the trigger with that excellent Snopes article, I noticed. :thumbsup:

[Rhiannon12866]

25. Thanks! But I'm used to getting this stuff, so I check everything out.

And, like I said, from people who should know better. *sigh* And I learned from a pro, LOL, my friend who turned me on to DU. I'll have to point out this forum to him, too... :hi:

[Synnical]

28. Way Cool

Was Unaware! Thanks so much.

-Cindy in Fort Lauderdale

[Marr]

14. Just 16 months ago, we didn't have iphones. Clearly, the iphone casused

all these problems.

[Lasher]

24. Elephants are terrified of my housecats.

Since I got my two cats 16 months ago, not a single elephant has dared enter my yard.

Excellent point, Marr. And considering the target audience usually has a very short attention span, this reply might be quite effective.

[proud2BlibKansan]

17. We spend $720 million a day in Iraq

That's the only number these idiots need to be worry about.

[Blue_Tires]

21. ttt

[Juche]

23. I got this one a while back and already have a reply

Text to my sister in law Holly:


Holly, Holly, Holly.

> A little over one year ago:
> 1) Consumer confidence stood at a 2 ½ year high;
> 2) Regular gasoline sold for $2.19 a gallon;
> 3) The unemployment rate was 4.5%.
>
> Since voting in a Democratic Congress in 2006 we have seen:
> 1) Consumer confidence plummet;
> 2) The cost of regular gasoline soar to over $3.50 a gallon;
> 3) Unemployment is up to 5% (a 10% increase);
> 4) American households have seen $2.3 trillion in equity value
> evaporate (stock and mutual fund losses);
> 5) Americans have seen their home equity drop by $1.2 trillion dollars;
> 6) 1% of American homes are in foreclosure.
>


Gasoline is going up in price for a variety of reasons.

Turmoil in the mideast, the decling value of the USD & growing global demand are the main reasons. Of these 3 factors, 2 can be blamed in part on the GOP. The GOP, by ignoring trade deficits and running debts while saber rattling in the mideast have helped drive up oil costs. The wars in Iraq and ignoring the trade deficit have done alot to increase oil prices. In fact when Bush came into office oil was $30/barrel. It is now $120.




As far as foreclosures, alot of that can be blamed on neocons deregulating the banking industry. As a result banks were allowed to make dangerous, tricky loans that were banned before Bush came into office. In face Eliot Spitzer tried suing the US government to force them to regulate the housing and banking industry, but he was stopped by the Bush admin. As a result of the deregulation, there is a housing crisis. The fact that Spitzers hooker issue came up in the same week as the $200 billion bailout of Bear Sterns is probably not a coincidence.

http://www.gregpalast.com/elliot-spitzer-gets-nailed/

As far as the income tax of Clinton v. Bush, Obama & Hillary are only repealing the income tax cuts for people making over 200k a year. None of us make over 200k a year and most of those figures are for people making under 200k, so that is both misleading and false.

Here is a counterpoint to your income tax chart.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/taxes/clinton-bush.asp


And immigrants do pay taxes. They pay FICA taxes for medicare or SS and never collect because they are long gone by then. Immigrants also pay sales taxes, gas taxes, alcohol taxes

http://www.reason.org/commentaries/dalmia_20060501.shtml

""Beyond federal taxes, all illegals automatically pay state sales taxes that contribute toward the upkeep of public facilities such as roads that they use, and property taxes through their rent that contribute toward the schooling of their children. The non-partisan National Research Council found that when the taxes paid by the children of low-skilled immigrant families — most of whom are illegal — are factored in, they contribute on average $80,000 more to federal coffers than they consume.""

However, by all means keep it up. By being rude to everyone who isn't a well off, white, christian heterosexual the GOP has alienated blacks, latinos, atheists, non-christians, asians, the poor, GLBT, and for all intents and purposes about 50% of the public. In fact, at this point, outside of the south the GOP is a perpetual minority party in federal politics. Basically the US consists of a fairly moderate, progressive 37 states and a GOP 13 southern states.

In fact at this point blacks, latinos, GLBTs and Jews make up almost 25% of the electorate, and vote democrat nearly 80% of the time on average. Alot of this can be traced back to the rough xenophobia the GOP embraces against blacks, gays, mexicans and (back in FDRs day) Jews. America is also becoming more and more secular and agnostic and this drives a wedge between the religious right owned GOP and the rest of America. In fact 17% of the electorate is now agnostic, non-practicing, atheist or a non-christian faith. They vote democrat about 70% of the time largely due to the influence of the religious right. That number will keep growing.

So feel free to keep ripping on mexicans (who pay huge amounts in taxes), it only makes the latinos of America more and more democratic. The more latinos who vote and who vote democratic, the weaker the GOP becomes. Keep in mind that latinos are a major voting force in several swing states like Colorado, Arizona or Nevada. Before Bush latinos were almost 40% GOP, then the GOP went on a harsh anti-immigrant tirade, now the latinos are 70-80% democrat. People used to make these same arguments against blacks. They are taking all the jobs, driving down wages and "I" am wasting my tax money to help them. As a result of 40 years of the GOP running with this message, no self respecting black person votes republican. In fact blacks vote democrat nearly 90% of the time, only 8-9% vote republican. Have fun doing the same thing with latinos, harassing and insulting them until no self respecting latino will vote for a republican. It'll make it far easier for democrats to get elected.

Also, of that $200 billion that is due to depressed wages, if latinos were allowed to form unions and negotiate higher wages then that figure would be far less.

The real unemployment rate is far higher than 4.5%, every president since JFK has fudged the numbers. The real number is somewhere around 8%.

I don't expect you to read any of this Holly but Scott, feel free to pass this info around.

VOTE INFORMED. VOTE DEMOCRAT 2008.

l33t

[Synnical]

26. From yesterday

HELP!!1!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=3273110&mesg_id=3273110

[Rhiannon12866]

27. Replied to your thread with the same link from Snopes that I posted here.

This is false. Snopes refutes the details...:hi:

Voting for Change
http://www.snopes.com/politics/business/votedforchange.asp