Michigan's hurting worse than I've ever seen it.

[knitter4democracy]

My mom and her husband treated our family to a trip to Petoskey this weekend. My husband and kids had never been there, though we love Northern Michigan, and it was to celebrate a couple of birthdays.

Traffic was really light, even knowing next weekend's Memorial Day. The hotel was full from a local wedding and a lacrosse tournament in town, but there were few tourists around at all. Stores were empty, and no one was walking around downtown at all. Really nice stores had sale signs up all over. I've never seen it like that, even in the spring. I've also never seen so many for sale signs--even in really nice neighborhoods.

I went to a local yarn shop to get a darning needle for the baby hat I'd finished, and the clerk and I got to talking politics. She's a life-long Republican, but she will be voting for Obama or no one, she told me (she then followed that up with saying she was sorry Edwards probably wasn't going to be the VP candidate--and she's freakin' conservative!). Her son's in the Army and has done two tours in Iraq, and they're sending him back this summer (he flies Chinook helicopters). He's stayed in the Army because he can't find a job outside of it that would keep him home. He and his wife have been married for 5 years, but they've only been together for 1.5 years of that time and therefore have chosen not to have kids. The clerk herself uses a tank of gas each way to her part-time job that she's combined with another part-time job after the corporation she worked for let her go after a buy-out. Here she has a college degree, but because of her age and all, she can't find a job in business with her degree, so she works retail--where her hours are getting cut because of the drop in tourism.

My son's kindergarten class had a field trip to Albion's children's museum last week, and it was practically a ghost town. I hadn't been there in at least 15 years, and so I was really shocked. From what a Dem friend told me, it's actually better than it was--they lost two plants and their hospital all in the space of two years a couple of years back to the tune of almost 2000 jobs, and they're just trying to stay alive. At least the college is still there, but people are commuting all over for work, and with gas, they're really hurting.

I know of two families at our kids' school who will be moving out of state after school's out. No jobs. One family's moving to Florida to live with family and try to find work there.

Times here are extremely desperate. With gas now at $4/gallon and our state being so big and almost entirely based on cars for transportation, it's getting harder and harder for many Michiganders to keep things going. When I see people say that we aren't in a recession or might only be in a bit of a recession, I want them to come up here to Michigan and tell that to our faces.

McCain's popular up here for being such a "straight talker" (I know, that's totally a lie, but that's the story people know), but if Obama runs on the economy, he'll even carry the conservative rest of the state, not just Detroit. We're hurting, and we need someone who realizes there's a problem and has actual answers.

[midnight]

1. This sounds so awful.

[Vincardog]

2. I have said it before and I will say it again. IF Obama and the Democratic party run on and deliver

on a Progressive Populist theme we will sweep the REpigLICKERS into the ash bin of history.

[SammyWinstonJack]

52. The progressive populist theme that Edwards ran on was ignored.

Think the same won't happen to Obama, if he goes that route? Just wait.

[Vincardog]

73. IGnored by the Corporate Controlled MEdia. Wait until Obama strikes that note in a Nationally

televised Presidential debate. We have got to stop allowing the radical reich to impose the limits of debate on our candidates.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

3. 7 years of complete inattention. (Maybe longer)

It's an outrage.

[erinlough]

5. As a Michigander

The last 7 years of Michigan History has been very hard, but in my opinion it was totally set up by the previous years of Republican Gov. bilking the state into tax plans that did not work and contracts with companies we are still paying off. Jennifer Granholm gets a lot of angst from people for her attempts to save a failing state, but it was the policies of John Engler that hurt this state.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

6. Engler was like late-90's, right?

:shrug:

[erinlough]

9. Yes, here's a link

I haven't done research to verify it's completely correct, but this is my recollection of the time.

www.metrotimes.com/johnengler/003.html

[noonwitch]

48. 1991-2003

He supported term limits, except when it came to himself.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

72. Has there ever been one who didn't?

[knitter4democracy]

10. Amen to all of that.

It's totally Engler and the MI GOP's fault, in my opinion. They've run this state into the ground, and they want to blame the unions and Dems for it. Disgusting.

[OhioChick]

39. The Repubs have also run Ohio

into the ground here. It's awful here....Cleveland is becoming a ghost town, "for sale" signs lining the streets (even in the suburbs). It pisses me off to hear those in the MSM say they we're not/or in a borderline recession. They should come to Ohio. We've been in a recession for years. It's sad.

[knitter4democracy]

57. That's true. Cleveland's doing better than Detroit, though.

Not that it's a contest, but the last time we visited my in-laws who live in a high-rise in downtown Cleveland, there was all kinds of development that wasn't there when we lived there years ago. Nice stuff, too. We didn't get to drive around a whole lot, though, so I wouldn't be surprised if the ring suburbs are hurting.

[TahitiNut]

15. We also have a FLAT state income tax and a FLAT Detroit city income tax.

The regressive tax policies, coupled with tax giveaways to corporations, cripple the working people who're lucky enough to not have their jobs shipped out-of-state or overseas.

The state is a mess. In the 50s we had highways, schools, and parks that were the envy of the country. Now we're in the sewer.

[knitter4democracy]

16. Empty houses everywhere, too.

It's worse than when I was a kid in the late 70s. People are even driving under the speed limit now, just trying to conserve on gas.

[MetaTrope]

18. While my relatives are living in McMansions in Detroit's NW suburbs

Paying water bills higher than my monthly rent, and complaining about how much debt they're in...

[AngryAmish]

51. Maybe Detroit should not have an income tax?

I would not live in a city with an income tax.

However, as you know, Detroit is a wreck. I could be totally exempt from all taxes and still would not live in Detroit.

[judasdisney]

34. As an ex-Michigander, Michigan DESERVES its fate for re-electing Engler

and guess what? The Engler Ruling Class Orgy followed by the Granholm hangover is only HALF of the metaphor for Bush-into-Obama. No President can fix what is coming, and Obama's going to get ALL the blame.

[knitter4democracy]

58. No, we don't.

Blanchard messed a lot of stuff up, too, so when Engler promised fiscal solvency and delivered for those first couple of years, things looked better. Then, he got greedy, started trying to get nationally known, went to the right, and the state went to hell in a handbasket.

I do wonder why people blame Granholm so much, though. With the MI GOP in the state congress working against her every move and a huge Engler mess to clean up, no wonder things aren't fixed by now.

[MichiganVote]

83. Bullshit. Not all of Michigan deserves the crap we've been living through

Who appointed you judge and jury for an entire state? You've got some nerve saying that shit on a Democratic board.

Keep that bullshit rolling and let it be known you're a Democrat and you can forget about Michigan in November. THAT is exactly the black and white attitude we had FROM Engler.

[MichiganVote]

82. Got that right.

[annabanana]

4. I've got the feeling there's a whole bunch of America that can relate.

How do we get the info out there? How can we help expose the crooked man walking a crooked mile?

[rwheeler31]

7. They will not listen.

[knitter4democracy]

12. More and more of the Republicans I talk to are listening.

They're disgusted with being lied to over and over, and many of them have kids or family in the military (Michigan's got a lot of people in the military). They're starting to listen to Obama and realizing that he's a million times better than McCain (everyone I've talked to said flat-out they'd never vote for Hillary, btw).

[CoffeeCat]

17. My Bush-loving neighbors...

...stuck with Bush for a long, long time--well into his second term.

They were life-long Republicans.

I don't see them very much in the winter--because people tend to hibernate more
when it's cold in Iowa. I show up at my precinct, the night of the Iowa caucuses,
and much to my surprise--there are these two neighbors. Caucusing for Edwards!!!

The Republican party is so screwed this November. With our Dem primary turnout
up 100 percent in most states--they won't even be able to steal it.

Make no mistake, they're quaking in their Cole Haans.

And McCentury won't be their saving grace.

[Radio_Lady]

31. McCentury! That's priceless... however, didn't he whittle it down to

Mc-2013? What a dumb ass!

Brilliant. Just choose a date that is AFTER YOUR FOUR YEARS ARE UP, dumb fuck!

Sorry for the rant.

RL

[knitter4democracy]

33. They won't even be able to steal it.

God, I hope so. I'm so sick of them stealing elections.

[femrap]

89. 'quaking in their Cole Haans....'

I like that one...LOL!

[Olney Blue]

8. I visited there last week on business and it was what I heard from all the

Michigan folks I ran across. They are nervous and worried. A common theme of discussion was what to do with all the talent that had been in the auto business.

[knitter4democracy]

13. Many are leaving.

Scary times for the state I love so dang much.

[Olney Blue]

14. I'm sorry knitter.

:hug:

[femrap]

90. Make ELECTRIC CARS!!!

Saturn (GM) was the one who made them before....just fabulous. Rent 'Who Killed the Electric Car.'

[gulfcoastliberal]

11. Wow... that's horrible!

Fuck NAFTA, fuck Hillary Clinton and her goddamn pathetic sellout "friends of India" senate caucus, and fuck all pols who support "free trade" & outsourcing. This is the result. Fuck them all! FUCK!

[Zhade]

22. As a wise friend once said, "fuck george bush, fuck hillary clinton"!

NT!

[defendandprotect]

19. Sad to hear all of this .... GOP "third world America" . . .

This has been going on for decades, right????

Car industry moved out --- trade agreemements --- ???

[1776Forever]

20. Not to scare anyone but Florida is terrible right now too! Been trying for a yr to find a good job!

I have an MBA but if I don't get something soon I will be making a resume that doesn't show it! With the house taxes and insurance here since the 3 hurricanes in '04 you better believe it is rough! Loads of people have lost their homes and it isn't just because of variable rate mortgages. Lots of job loses and like I said the high house taxes and insurance on the homes! It is really getting bad here!!!

[knitter4democracy]

36. I have heard that and told my mom friend about it.

She's scared to move anywhere with her kids without family to help out, and her eldest daughter is already in Florida. She's scared she won't find work there, either.

[pretzel4gore]

21. get Ted Nugent, the yappy hunter, to suggest something...

goddam bush should be hung around nugent's neck ...nugent was so important to the gopig victory in Michigan, singing bbush's praises, cheering on the mmmass murder of innocent Iraqis and Afghanis, ggggloating over his tiny lil tax bill while everything fell apart. I betcha nugent won't be campaigning for mcsame (and remember when nugent threatened to gun down Barack obama and Hillary? at a concert in 2007...the crowd, in cailfornia, cheered)

[Romulox]

25. WTF are you talking about? What "gopig victory in Michigan"???

[pretzel4gore]

43. gopig victory in USA?

So Michigan was under the Democratic party during bush's extravaganza? that makes nugent a traitor not only to the country, which still hadn't learned, but to his home State, which apparently had!
how do they get away with it?

[marmar]

26. What GOP victory in Michigan?

:shrug:

Democratic Governor, two Dem senators, Dem-controlled state house, Dem in the last 4 presidential elections....

:shrug:

[pretzel4gore]

44. poor Ted! He REALLY was a persecuted minority!

or, in plain talk, a wealthy white guy!
that explains his sedition, his 5th column actions, his back stabbing of Michigan public interest on behalf of The Youngster, his TERRBLE lonely SUFFERIN! all the busheviki can focus their defensive explanation on the local liberalism (since we assume 'liberal' is still 'communism without the molotov cocktail' in the land of the Freeper)

[Batgirl]

23. If you read the business press

where business leaders weigh in on Michigan's economic problems, the recurring theme is to blame organized labor and government taxes on business for driving business away from here.

Companies that are in this state leave, or threaten to leave, claiming other states have lower taxes on business plus workers who are willing to work for less pay. In other words, they like it better when they don't have to pay a living wage.

I suppose it's just another form of outsourcing. And I also think it's reasonable to expect this pattern might keep repeating itself and for other states to be abandoned by companies who are constantly looking to move to wherever they can pay even less taxes and wages. Maybe all states will end up competing for who can offer them the most and expect the least in return.

Michigan should be regarded as a crystal ball showing us the future of our entire country unless something is done to stop the destruction of our middle class.

[knitter4democracy]

35. My brother moved his company here.

He bought out another company that already had a plant in Ohio. When the lease was up, he started looking around, and Hillsdale beat out Youngstown, OH by far. Granholm took credit my dad didn't think was hers, but at least her office returned calls and helped get things going--Ohio's GOP governor at the time didn't even return phone calls. My brother figured it up, and Michigan was a far better place for his factory.

The reality is, Michigan has many packages available for companies thinking of coming here, and our tax rates are lower than they were in the 1970s. Part of it is our weather--hard to get people to move here with our real winters if they're used to living elsewhere, and part of it is just finding an excuse to squeeze every last drop of profit out of their employees.

[rucky]

55. They really want to join that race to the bottom, sounds like.

really short-sighted of them. Pretty soon the "most prosperous" state will be the one that's lowest in wages and in tax revenues per capita. I don't know why any state would want to compete for that title. What I do know is that a concentration of highly-skilled workers should be attractive to investors, and if these business leaders would just see the opportunity in that - instead of looking for scapegoats - they'd stand to benefit.

[kestrel91316]

24. I recently watched the PBS American Experience documentary

about FDR, and this coming election reminds me very much of the 1932 election, where Herbert Hoover had basically given up on doing ANYTHING about the Great Depression (he simply had no ideas, and did nothing) and that allowed FDR to win in a landslide.

I am hopeful that Obama will take this opportunity to take serious action, and quickly. FDR did pretty much as he wished his first term, but had interference from the RW in his second.

[Romulox]

27. So far, Obama has little or nothing to say about the economy...

It's stunning to me that Obama came to Michigan and had little or nothing to say about how he would assist the struggling auto industry. :wtf:

[marmar]

28. I'm pretty sure he'll be back here a few times before November......Just sayin'

n/t

[Romulox]

29. Right. But to use struggling Michigan as a backdrop to the Edwards' endorsement

And to refuse to answer what he would do to help the American auto worker is itself a slight to Michigan and its problems.

Obama may not understand how dire it is here. I am trying to be generous. He surely hasn't shown much interest in our problems. Just sayin'... ;(

[marmar]

30. But I think you missed his Town Hall at Macomb Community College earlier in the day....

..... It was all about the economy and the declining auto industry.

[Romulox]

32. Well, it wasn't open to the public, and I didn't bother to watch the tape

But I can say that the synopsis I saw had little or nothing or substance with regard to the auto industry. He talked about a "green jobs initiative" that was not specific to Michigan, if I recall.

I am off to google a bit more, but if you have a link to any specific ideas he put forward regarding Michigan's economy, I'd greatly appreciate see them. To the best of my knowledge, he made no such proposals.

[Romulox]

38. Just watched the Youtube. The synopsis was accurate. Pretty underwhelming, imo.

Crowd was unenthused.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c-mlrEAfB1I

[pretzel4gore]

46. i got an idea.

put the bizmen in a room with a high explosive devise. tell them 'do what you'd do to succeed, but factor in the enviro, the working folk, and the public interest (iow sorta like a true christian would, in fact!) and with every statement that shows profit (though you only get a part; the community derive its operating funds from the 'tax' part paid) the timer is moved back....after the habits of hyena/cockroach/greedy capitalism is unlearned, and replaced by good citizenship etc, the bizmen could go back to wearing pinstripes alone ....but no more of them $10 thousand dollar thongs or 2 monthlong lunches in tahiti, ok!

[Romulox]

49. You are entertaining, but COMPLETELY unhinged!

:WTF: are you talking about? :hi:

[femrap]

91. Obama is owned by The Corporation...his

long lost papa, found at last.

[knitter4democracy]

37. I agree--but at least he did apologize for the primary crap.

That needed to be done. Now he needs to set up a New New Deal plan and start stumping it here and elsewhere in the Rust Belt.

[Romulox]

40. You would've thought some shot of economic populism would have been the quid pro quo for Edwards'

endorsement. Since it was not, I have no expectation of seeing more economic populism from an Obama candidacy. In fact, I expect he will move to the right for the GE campaign.

[knitter4democracy]

54. I hope not. You might be right, though.

We'll just have to watch and see, I guess, since I know I don't have enough money to sway anyone. *sigh*

[SammyWinstonJack]

53. Should have gone with Edwards. But noooo......

x(

[yewberry]

41. MI is a state that scares me.

No, not the state itself, I mean the position it's in. I think MI is almost as much a national tragedy (and a national disgrace, relative to the help it's received) as the states still trying to recover from Katrina.

I think the party should get the hell on this. If I had my way, the primaries would have a special set of dates for MI and LA and MS and AL and the states that are DYING as we all watch. We need to address what is happening. If we on the ground know it, why can't we make this a priority?

Best to you. Take care.

[knitter4democracy]

59. It is a national tragedy.

We're dying up here, and no one seems to care on the national level. We've lost thousands and thousangs of jobs in the last few years, and we've led the current recession and just keep getting worse. No one seems to give a rat's ass about it, though, so we are starting to band together in community groups to try to survive.

[KharmaTrain]

42. A Late Spring Didn't Help Either

We're on the other side of the lake...and I have many friends who head over to Michigan or up to Wisconsin once the weather turns warm. No doubt that rising prices...oil and otherwise are taking a toll. I can just run down to the nearest strip mall and see that. Many I know are thinking hard about summer travel plans (I know I have been) but even at $4 a gallon, driving a couple hundred miles is cheaper than going through the costs and hassles of flying somewhere.

I think some of the problem in resort areas was the late spring...temps haven't been consistantly in the 60's and 70's under just a few weeks ago and I'd imagine that has an effect on people getting up and away. IMHO so many people are shell-shocked by the high costs of gas and so many other things, they're almost frozen in going out and spending...ya never know if you'll need those extra bucks down the road.

[Vinca]

45. I don't know what heating oil costs in Michigan, but in New Hampshire

it's in the $4 a gallon range. I imagine there will be a huge exodus of people moving south if this continues. If you can't afford to heat your house and you don't move, you'll die. It's that serious.

[knitter4democracy]

60. People have been talking about it.

Most here heat with propane or natural gas, but those aren't cheap, either. Some people did freeze to death in Michigan last winter when it got really cold for a long time. More people are getting those pellet or corn stoves to heat their houses. One friend got one, and she went from $500/month to heat her old house (to a whopping 55 degrees) to $500 to heat the house for the whole winter. She wasn't the only one putting a pellet stove in last winter.

[Vinca]

68. We bought a pellet stove about 3 years ago and we love it.

Our house is old and huge and drafty and we heat it for about a quarter of what oil would cost us. We burn both pellets and corn (from a local farmer) in a 50/50 mix. Of course, a decent pellet stove isn't cheap either, so you're damned if you do and damned if you don't. I'm really worried for people next winter, though.

[knitter4democracy]

69. We used our fireplace a lot last winter in the real cold, too.

I'm going to see if I can get Hubby to bring in more wood to keep in the basement next fall so it'll be amazingly dry by winter and easy to use if the snow is really deep again.

I'm also toying with adding a pellet stove on the other side of the main floor in the living room. The fireplace does a decent job of heating the den and our bedroom upstairs a wee bit, the kitchen keeps fairly warm, but the living room gets colder. That way, too, it would be easier to cook if/when we lose power.

[Vinca]

76. I gave up burning wood in the fireplace after I nearly burned the house down!

The wood was a little green so I packed the thing with dried twigs to get it going and managed to start a chimney fire. There's nothing like flames shooting out a chimney to send you to the pellet stove store.:rofl: That's an added benefit - no creosote build up from the pellets.

[knitter4democracy]

78. Oh, man, that's scary!

I need the chimney guys to come out next fall. I should put that in my planner!

[Tyler Durden]

47. I don't know where and of t MI folks on this thread live...but where I live and work....

They are more conservative than ever. You know who they blame for the Michigan Disaster? Grantholm.

You MAY run into AA people in Flint or Lansing that are Obama Supporters, but the vast majority (write that as white/hispanic/other) of the working class is completely adrift as nobody has said diddley about JOBS, the main issue here.

The Democratic Party blew this pretty dramatically with the "Death Penalty," as any Democratic Candidate walking into this state without (or sometimes with) a hard and fast RESCUE MICHIGAN agenda and plan of some sort is looking to get shitcanned.

Sadly, "The Straight Talk Express" was and is such a marketing coup here, McCain could likely stand up in front of audiences and sell AMWAY to standing ovations.

Personally, I think it's too late already.

[Romulox]

50. Cause/effect? Obama canceled his name on the Michigan ballot

because he had no support here. He has no support here because he doesn't talk about the economy...

No DNC rule prevents him from talking about the Michigan economy. Never has.

The scary part is that Democrats traditionally move right in the GE. In other words, if Obama isn't willing to sweet talk Michigan before the sale is made, we have little hope once he doesn't need us any more. :scared:

[knitter4democracy]

61. We're in Battle Creek.

The city is more Dem, but the outlying areas are very, very right-wing, and I'm hearing those people talking of voting Democrat. I don't think it's too late just yet.

The primary thing really screwed us, though, you're right. How the heck am I supposed to campaign for someone who didn't fight for us when it was needed? On the other hand, the McCain campaign is imploding here (Cox left, he's skipping the Mackinac conference (a GOP requirement for decades) for a fundraiser, and even he didn't talk about the economy the last time he was here). We still have a chance.

[Tyler Durden]

74. Don't know whether to hope you're right or hope for general implosion

I'm sick and tired of bandaiding the government together.

Time for a CONSTITUTIONAL change, like to a parliament, and more parties, and public election funding

[End Of The Road]

56. There's hope for the next generation of Michiganders

Michigan (one of my fav states, home of my brother & his family) has at least two big things going for it:

1) WATER!
2) relatively (to many other states) well-educated, skilled populace.

Business & industry (what's left of it, anyway) will be headed back to the rust belt before too long because of both.

[knitter4democracy]

62. We're losing population, though.

Left and right. There's talk of us losing a House seat or two, even. As for water, the Lakes are down (though the heavy snow this winter helped), and we're fiercely protective of them.

I think much of the industrial part of our national economy is dead. It's cheaper to import than to make anything. Only when that trend reverses will we see a change.

[End Of The Road]

63. That's why I say "next generation"

Stay protective of that water you've got! Many states are in dire need of it, and within a few years water is going to be "the" topic of conversation, not oil. Michigan will see population growth, eventually, because industry will move back because of it.

[shrike]

64. Born in Detroit, raised in the 'burbs

Michigan hasn't been my home for years, but postings like this always make me sad.
The state has had more than its share of bad times. I can remember graduating in '82, and you practically had to get on your knees and beg for a job. What you describe sounds worse.

Northern Michigan is so beautiful; one of the most beautiful places in the country, IMO. I will hope, wish and pray that better times are on the way. I'm also going to vote Democratic in November, no matter who's the nominee.

[knitter4democracy]

65. People I've talked with say it is worse.

Then they shake their heads. No one thought it could get worse than the late 70s, early 80s here, but it really is.

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

75. I'm with you

"I'm also going to vote Democratic in November, no matter who's the nominee."

Although I have a strong preference between the two potential Democratic nominees, I'll happily vote for either one of them over John McChimpFluffer.

[B Calm]

66. Indiana is hurting too. It's all part of the cheap labor republican plan

to make working people desperate, hungry, and willing to work for less or starve!

[knitter4democracy]

70. I'd been hearing that.

We lost a lot of people when Pfizer bought out Pharmacia to Indianapolis, and rumor has it that some have had a hard time with jobs there since.

[erinlough]

93. What! didn't Mitch Daniels just say in his campaign commercials

that he solved all your economic problems, repaired education, reformed social services and walked on water. I live on the Indiana and Michigan border and I'm sure that is what he said on the news!!!!!

[emperor124]

67. I'm moving to Michigan this summer

To go to college in Kalamazoo. I heard it's doing better than the eastern half. I guess if things get too bad I can always commute 150 miles to Chicago. Oh wait...

[knitter4democracy]

71. Come on up! Kalamazoo is awesome!

We're just next door in Battle Creek. Which college--K or Western? Both have strong Dem student groups (Western used to have a really strong DFA, too, and I think it's still there), and Kalamazoo has a very good Dem county party. Lots going on for progressives, too.

There are a couple of good breweries, several good restaurants, and there's always something going on. Kalamazoo is also on the beginning edge of the western Michigan produce belt, so make sure to hit the farmer's market on Lake when you move up. It's a bit small but quite packed with good stuff.

[emperor124]

92. I'm going to Western

A friend of mine recommended it to me and I thought I'd check it out. Beautiful campus and lots of friendly people. Looks good so far!

[erinlough]

94. As a graduate, WELCOME! you will love Kalamazoo!

[knitter4democracy]

96. Awesome!! It's a very good school.

I'm going to take another grad-level class there in the fall, too. Everyone I've dealt with there is really amazing. The office people are nice and helpful, the profs actually know what they're teaching (doesn't always happen at the small school I went to), and most students are respectful and nice and work hard. I've been really impressed with it, though I'm on the other end.

There's a good restaurant/bar just off campus next to the police station that's worth checking out. When they say it's a roasted chicken sandwich, they mean that they roasted the chicken first themselves and cut the meat off, not that processed crap. They have a good beer selection, too, from what I remember (don't drink but remember hearing of some rather different orders when we went there for a visiting prof's lunch). Oh, and while you can probably get your books cheaper on-line, their pre-ordering thing is seriously easy and handy. They put all your books in a box, and hand you the box, you look through it, approve of everything, pay and go. Not like when I went to college, that's for sure.

We should have a meetup so I can get you some homecooked food and fresh apples. :)

[emperor124]

99. sounds fantastic.

I move out there this summer, towards the end of August. Really looking forward to it, I've heard nothing but good things about it.

[Hannah Bell]

77. The destruction is purposeful. Destroy it, then buy it up on the

cheap.

[kittykitty]

79. Really, what can save Michigan? How can a candidate make promises to bring back

jobs that are gone forever? Factories that have been dismantled and equipment sold. They can't stand up in front of crowds of unemployed people and promise jobs at a living wage that don't exist or have a chance of existing. Bush kept talking about retraining. Retraining middle age people to do what? Computer jobs that are being filled by H1-B's? Hillary promising jobs to people in Ohio and PA-- same thing. What can be done???

[knitter4democracy]

86. Talking about it is a start.

I'm not so sure the jobs are gone forever. Michigan would be ripe for some of the green energy options, especially with wind power. Granholm's done a good job of starting to get more biotech companies here, so that's helping somewhat.

I think the first thing we need to do is ask ourselves why we're not making anything anymore (okay, we still make some things but not enough) and why we're using farmland for empty houses. If we revamped farm policy and eliminated tax breaks for offshoring, it would be a start.

[erinlough]

95. In my opinion, Tourism and technology

and really pass laws to protect our water. That and hunker down and get creative to wait until we rebuild. Michigan is the most beautiful place I have ever been and I plan to stay.

[yardwork]

80. This is just awful.

Our country is falling apart.

[MichiganVote]

85. Well Michigan is the precursor but no one wants to see it for what it is.

[TWiley]

81. Did you notice the "Big Hole" downtown Petoskey?

You can thank State Senator Jason Allen (R) for that big hole downtown Petoskey. He ramrodded a special deal through for Louis Ferris Jr of Federated Capital in three seperate Northern Michigan cities.

Traverse City has a matching hole in its downtown area as well. Senator Jason Allen (R) and Senator Michelle McManus (R) went to bat to bilk the taxpayer millions of dollars for each hole. It was "thought" that some environmental cleanup was necessary so BRA funding / TIF / school tax capture was brought to bear. The promised developments are a no go in both cities, and all that remains are two, expensive holes.

Try to follow this:

Senator Jason Allen's (R) father owns a downtown business which employees county commissioner Wayne Schmidt (R) Wayne was instrumental in appointing his father-in-law Pete Stom to the county BRA board. Wayne's brother Matt, was a Traverse City City-Commissioner, and when Matt failed to ramrod the parking deck / BRA / TIF deal through, (something like a 70% city vote against the development)the County overstepped the city's jurisdiction and Pete Strom / Wayne Schmidt sealed the deal for millions to the company who donated roughly 50k to Senator Jason Allen's campaign.

whew.

Meanwhile the republicans, especially Bishop in the Senate, have smeared our Governor and made it almost impossible to pass any kind of a budget. The Bishop / Allen chorus can only sing the "no new taxes" "government is too big" psalm, and our state is going into the toilet as a result.

Roads are shot, and schools are shot. This catastrophe is the direct result of the arrogant Republican political style that we have all come to hate over the past 8 years. It all started with Governor "Pothole Engler" (R) who left our fine Governor with a 4 Billion dollar deficit.

Michigan is hurting. The Republicans really made a mess out of this place.

[MichiganVote]

84. Sure have. And right now....I'm not too impressed with the Dem's either.

[TWiley]

97. Most of the problems face by the Dems

Is due to the obstructionist policies of the republicans who still control the purse in the Senate. Michigan state Republicans are terrified of the thought that they may have to pony up and pay for their fair share of services.

[knitter4democracy]

87. We saw that!

They hadn't made much progress from when my mom and her husband were there last fall, so we were wondering if financing had fallen through.

We came up with a great design for a community center over lunch, though, that would be a lot more useful than what they had in the picture. :)

[TWiley]

98. I think it was a fraud from the start

If you google Louis Ferris Jr., or Federated Capital, the top link is on "Rip Off.com". It seems that Billionaire Mr Ferris is very good at luring municipalities into lawsuits.

With the support and backing of Senator Jason Allen (R) Louis Ferris was able to dig one hell of an expensive hole, and not pay any of the subcontractors. One recently filed bankrupcy. Now, the city is held hostage by these two fine businessmen, Ferris and Allen.

How much state money do you think they will get to fix the blight that they created?

Odd too, is that the exact same people were involved in Traverse City's great hole on W. Front Street.

The arrogence of State Senator Jason Allen (R), his father (R), his employee County Commissioner Wayne Schmidt (R), Waynes brother City Commissioner Mat Schmidt (R), and Wayne's father-in-law Pete Strom (R) is stunning to say the least.

Together, this band of republican misfits mustered the political muscle to reject a city wide vote (70% opposed)to this project and funnel millions of dollars of BRA / TIF and Tax-Captured Mega funds into Jason allen / Louis Ferris's pocket.

[galledgoblin]

88. Great Lakes states in general are hurting, but I agree, Michigan probably the worst

I don't envy those living in the Detroit/Flint area, although the Columbus/Youngstown area of Ohio might give D/F a run for the "prize".

it's 50 years of bad national policy that has led us here.

we have a lot of opportunity, though, ready for the taking. I hope the democrats remember that when we take national power and turn things around.