The military did not get us into this war. They did exactly what they were ordered to do.

[OregonBlue]

It was a bunch of Neocons, "Intelligence Analysts", "Military Analysts" and State Department Officials that got us into this war. Obama needs to make it clear that he will surround himself with real intelligence analysts, real military analysts and real diplomats and that McPoodle is going with the same disastrous group that lied us into this war. Not to mention that he is using members of the Military Industrial Complex as his supposed "advisers".

If McPoodle wants to play the military card, Obama needs to hand it right back to him in the form of don't try to blame this on the military, blame it on the traitorous Chicken Hawks and greedy oil men that lied us into the war in the first place.

[Postman]

1. Soldiers follow orders but Officers in high places are corrupt.

Patraeus is a sycophant

[OregonBlue]

4. While that may be true, it was not Petraeus that got us into this mess. It was the Neocons

and the State Department. It was the Military Industrial Complex that stood to profit. Obama must point to the intelligence failures over and over and assure people that he will not surround himself with yes men.

[Postman]

23. Agreed, but.......

They shitcanned the sane, competent Officer Corps (like Gen. Shinseki) and installed douchebag "yes men" like Gen. Myers , Franks, Patraeus.....

[Smith_3]

2. Please look at this figure:

and tell me again that it wasn't a broad ignorance on all levels of society, including those who think that the military is beyond blame when it comes to the larger issues.

Bushes approval rating after nine eleven:

[Smith_3]

3. Your post is insulting.

If I was involved in a car accident that killed someones child, regardless wether I was at fault or not, I would not follow the victims family around repeating over and over that it wasn't my fault.

Wether or not the military shares blame is a matter of opinion. But my take on it is, that it isn't exactly good taste for members of the military to be going around and repeatedly remind everyone that the whole thing that they carried out wasn't their fault.

[OregonBlue]

8. They do not make the policy. They carry out the agenda set by the Administration.

If that Administration is wrong, is it up to them to refuse to carry out the policy?

[ms liberty]

5. Not McPoodle. Please! Poodles are smart, attractive, and evolved - everything McBush is not! n/t

[OregonBlue]

9. I stand corrected and I do agree, Poodles are very nice animals as opposed to some of the

human animals in this Administration.

[sharesunited]

6. Why the enlistments and reenlistments? That's what I can't abide.

Unless you like pushing folks around. Unless you accept Bush as your great leader.

[OregonBlue]

10. I know young people that signed up out of financial need. After their tours, they had

nowhere to go. Their military training did not prepare them for good paying jobs here at home. Some of them re-enlisted. They are not war mongers, simply poor and unskilled. Lot of those guys in the Fort Lewis area.

[NNN0LHI]

18. What would we call poor and unskilled Iraqis if they came here and began killing Americans?

[usaftmo]

19. Hey, wait a minute...active duty here

I chose the military as a career while poppy was President. Your stating of accepting bush as our great leader is an insult.

Have you ever heard of the saying "we can support the troops without supporting the President"? Helmut-head (trent lott) said that while Clinton was President. Lott's saying applies now just as much as then.

[ColbertWatcher]

7. Damn right! It was the profiteers who dragged us to war! n/t

[EFerrari]

11. The military didn't collaborate with criminals, the officer corps did.

We can't deny it. Bush could never have waltzed into Iraq without their ACTIVE collaboration.

[OregonBlue]

12. Well he just kept going down the line until he found Generals who would cooperate.

That's what I think Obama has to make clear. He will listen to his advisers and NOT surround himself with yes men.

[EFerrari]

14. To a degree, Obama, like JFK, has little choice about the officers

aka Pentagon whores, that are around him.

Edit: Okay, that is unfair and insulting to some of these men. And, their behavior as a group is a shame to America.

[JackRiddler]

13. Define military.

What is its function?

Who is it "defending"?

Why is it so enormous? Why is it stationed everywhere in the world? Why does it develop plans for war in every country on earth? Why does it seek unilateral dominance in all theaters, is there no alternative? Why is there always an assumption the next war must come, and therefore be prepared? Why is the next generation of nuclear weapons developed?

How do you distinguish between Pentagon brass and contracters, given the revolving door system? Where is the dividing line between generals and civilian policy makers?

At what stage of a crime is taking orders not an excuse? Does this vary by rank?

What's the excuse for psychological operations on the homefront?

Etc. etc.

[OregonBlue]

15. There were members of the military brass who did not think Iraq was a good idea.

They were discredited and let go. The Administration just went down the line until the found the ones that would agree with them. They did that on both the military and civilian sides. It's not the military, it's the Administration, the neocon war mongers and the oil companies. Yes, they did find military brass that would finally go along, but note that the people originally in charge of the military were against invading.

[JackRiddler]

16. The war is illegal under US constitution, UN Charter and intl law.

"The military" is in violation of it.

[OregonBlue]

17. Well then where is our Congress? Isn't it up to them? They authorized this nightmare!!!

[JackRiddler]

20. True as well.

But I still smell an apologia for the military here.

[OregonBlue]

21. Having lived in Tacoma, I know a lot of these guys and while I am totally opposed and

horrified by this war, I can't bring myself to condemn the vast majority of them. In fact, it is amazing how many of our troops feel exactly like I do and even how many of the officers. There are always animals, in and out of the military but the bulk of them are not animals.

Those of them that really want to go and kill the "ragheads" are few and far between. Most either go because they need the work, grew up in the military or actually think they are doing the right thing. I have personally met many smart, savvy, committed officers who are not pro-war.

This Administration, the war profiteers, oilmen, Neocons and the members of the intelligence services who are in their employ started this war with the BLESSING of our elected representatives. Place the blame for how we got into this mess and why we are still there right where it belongs. Kick the bums out, Repuke and Dem alike that allowed this to happen and that allow it to continue.

[JackRiddler]

22. It's not about condemning them.

Defending the territorial US requires a small military, if any. What is the function of this machine? Why do we pay for it? Whom does it serve?

[OregonBlue]

24. I couldn't agree more but it's the Congress that makes those decisions. We need to go after them.

Like Dennis Kucinich says, we need a department of peace, not a department of war. Fat chance I'll see that in my lifetime. I was originally a Kucinich supporter, then an Edwards supporter and now an Obama supporter. I don't believe anyone but Dennis has the balls to actually try to reduce our military to the size needed just to defend our border. As long as it is what it is, I am not going to condemn the individual soldier.