An interesting story that happened to me today. Not pretty

[Ishoutandscream2]

My school district was recognized by the "Rachel's Challenge" group as the national school district of the year. Rachel was the girl who was the first casualty at Columbine, and her writings in her diaries were the basis for her challenge that we should be accepting and loving toward everyone. It reminded me a lot of an Anne Frank type of thing - getting lessons from life from a young girl who was about to have hers taken. As you are about to see, you will wonder why we won this in the first place.

Anyway, we had a luncheon at Central Administration. I represented our school, and I saw folks from other schools that I don't normally see. The first table I sat at was full of some women friends. Of course, they had to start out that I was the district's token liberal. They had their laughs, and then I mentioned, "You know, all of you only represent roughly a third of the country. Maybe I'm the minority here, but all of you are the minority in this nation."

One of the ladies there was my oldest two kids school counselor. A sweet lady who has been good to my kids, but a former member of the college Republicans and a conservative. She said that my two oldest would rebel against me and turn conservative one day (laughingly). I told her that was impossible, my two oldest were compassionate and empathetic; there was no way they could become Republicans. Dead silence.

Then another lady counselor said, "Okay, Mister Liberal, what's your views on abortion?" I told her it was a woman's choice, and was none of my business. She mentioned it was murder, and only God could make that type of decision. Then I related a story to her about my sister-in-law...

My brother and sister-in-law had been trying for ages to have a baby. They have had many complications in the past. Finally, Kim was able to give birth April 2, 2007 to Andrew Carl. Turned out that Andrew had Downs. For three months, Mike and Kim were the consummate parents, and did everything loving parents would do. One night, Andrew stopped breathing. At that time, the paramedics came in time and brought Andrew back. It was going to be tough going for them, but Mike and Kim were ready. Andrew would have to have heart surgery the following summer.

June of 07. Mike makes a quick call to me and says Andrew has stopped breathing and hangs up. I call my Mom, and we plan on driving to Fort Worth to meet my brother and SIL at Fort Worth Cook's Children. Then Mike calls - Andrew is dead. They were going to see Andrew's cardiologist when all of a sudden Andrew stopped breathing. Kim gave mouth-to-mouth while Mike was calling an ambulance. Emergency personnel came quickly, and worked on Andrew quite a time before declaring him dead. When my mom and I got to the hospital, we saw Kim holding Andrew's lifeless body.

Fast forward to now. It's their last chance, and through artificial insemination (sp), Mike and Kim are pregnant again. However, they found out that Kim is carrying 4! Mike and Kim are having to go to New York City next week to have a specialist help with a decision - Kim can only carry two. Any more, and her life and the babies would be threatened. This doctor they are seeing in New York doesn't have any type of outdoor sign. Reason? Fear of a nut bombing the place. So, Kim and Mike have the stressful trip to determine how the two would be chosen to be aborted.

After telling this lady the story, she told me it was still in God's hands. Taking some of the fetuses would still constitute murder. I asked, even if it meant the life of my SIL? Yes, it's in God's hands. My God, I couldn't believe it. I told her that I believed in science and logic, and that I would do anything to save a mother's life, especially my SIL. The lady responded that Kim and Mike should have thought about this beforehand. I was flabbergasted. I went to another table to talk to some men I used to work with.

Of course, they in turn go after me about us not having a candidate. I said we will have one, and it will be Obama. One laughed, and said, "like I said..." I mentioned that a vote for McCain is a vote for four more years of Bush. Didn't phase him. He mentioned how poorly McCain's posture looked from his experiences in Nam. I said I agreed, and that was one thing I wouldn't attack McCain on. I wasn't going to be like the swift-boaters and do what they did to Kerry in 04. And then, the ultimate...

Another guy said that Obama didn't have a solution to the economic crisis and didn't know what to do. I said that actually McCain had insinuated something like that. He replied, "Well, Obama said the only thing that could be done was to 'ni&&er rig' the economy." Laughter all around. I stated, "So this is what it's all about?" and excused myself to get another glass of tea.

What's frightening is that these are college educated people. I am afraid of the true red necks out there who will have the same attitude toward Obama, because there are a lot of them. Obama is going to have to do what other great black pioneers have had to do - work his ass off twice as much as anyone else in order to get the recognition he deserves. It's a sad commentary on our nation. "Let God take care of it; it's God's will." Yeah, what the fuck ever. We can't let this segment of our population ever have power again. They will always need to be the lower 30%.

[villager]

1. so... was this around Tampa Bay? Or somewhere in Texas?

If we should even ask...

[Ishoutandscream2]

5. Texas. I just happen to be a Rays fan

Still a bit shaken about it. School day is almost over, and I have some kids I need to see. Awards ceremony tonight. Not in the best of moods right now.

[villager]

38. I'll bet. Hang in there.

I'm due to visit Austin again in August.

Haven't ventured much from there, in my several Texas visits, so I enjoy my "skewed" view of the Lone Star State!

[Fumesucker]

2. These people may be well dressed and "educated"...

But they *are* 'true red necks'.

Sorry to hear of your family's problems, I wish them well..

[Iris]

26. Educated is questionable

it sounds like they treated college like vocational school. (Not that there's anything wrong with vocational schools.)

[Fumesucker]

33. That's why I put "educated" in quotes.. :) n/t

[Iris]

36. I know!

nice work! ;-)

[Quantess]

48. Our prezdumbent is likewise, "educated".

I can't believe a group of adults in a somewhat professional setting would laugh at that last Obama comment. Disgusting.

[bean fidhleir]

54. They're credentialed, not educated. (nt)

[Lars39]

3. Life is just a game to them.

They've never developed empathy, never matured, and probably never will.

[arundhatiroyfan]

16. I agree that most of them don't seem to have empathy.

A republican posted on another message board that he is better of than he was 8 years ago and would vote for Bush again in a heartbeat. That the majority of people are in a worse situation than before doesn't bother him.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

4. How horrible

first of all, that woman that said that about "God's will". My reply would have been, "I didn't know God recruited you to be His mouthpiece as to what He wants. Also, there's a passage in Luke about 'judge not lest you be judged.'" Obviously the idiot never had to face a situation where the choice was her life or the life of a fetus.

As for the others, they are obviously racists. It is sad to think that our nation hasn't come very far since the Civil War.

[Ishoutandscream2]

6. What came out of that one gentleman's mouth floored me

I had no idea. None whatsoever.

[Clark2008]

75. He's hardly a gentleman with a mouth like that

(and an attitude to match)

[bdamomma]

20. and sadly so many people think they have been recruited to be

mouthpiece and don't know anything. Sickening. Sorry about your family's dilemma, but that will be their choice to make.

[ceile]

7. North TX is a scary place.

Rich, educated Republicans scare the crap out of me. They are capable of anything. Sorry you had to listen to that woman minimize your brother and sil's excruciating decision.

[Ishoutandscream2]

10. They really are, aren't they?

They go their mega churches on Sunday, and get their fill about the "evil liberals." They are frightening.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

15. You ever wish to have a sympathetic ear,

go to TANSTAAFL bar in Arlington. Guaranteed it is run by true blue liberals--my brother in law and his wife.

[Ishoutandscream2]

21. Really? Mike and I are in Arlington on Saturday for the Ranger's game

Is it close to the ballpark?

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

55. No

It's off Division on Bowen--I think. Can't remember the names of streets, only how to get there. If you do go, ask for Mary Ann and tell her her crazy sister in law Ayesha sent you.

[bdamomma]

22. and some of them harbor so much hatred and division.

and they truly think that their God is better than our God.

[Skittles]

69. that's why I live here, dahling

I feel it is my fate in life to torment these ignorant bastards and believe me, I NEVER stop :D

[rucky]

8. I can't wait for Obama to be sworn in...

for nothing more than to piss off assholes like this.

[Ishoutandscream2]

12. Me, too. Heads will explode.

I'm preparing for the endless emails when he is in office. You know the shit is going to get deep.

[LibDemAlways]

9. Depressing, isn't it? This country has more than its share

of racists and morons.

There are voters out there who will reject Obama outright on the basis of his race. That's just an unfortunate fact.

As for the "It's God will" crowd, there's nothing you could say to them that would change their minds. Only when faced with their own tough circumstance would they perhaps start to see things differently.

[MindPilot]

11. wonder how long it will be before the DU Religious Defense Team

shows up to tell us these people aren't "real" Christians.

OK, this kind, loving and merciful god will let four babies and a mother suffer and die, and that's "his will". But if medical science can save two babies and a mother, that's a sin.

Are you beginning to understand how it is possible to see anyone who believes in god as a blithering idiot?

[Ishoutandscream2]

17. Yes. I am 100 percent behind logic and science

If God's will is to make 4 babies and their mother suffer and die, then I want no part of him.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

18. That is a person's interpretation of God

not God, as I mentioned in my post upthread. Are they following the teachings of their master, Jesus? Well, I suggested that the person writing the OP ask them about that. Might, at the very least, shut them up--and maybe it would get them thinking.

[stillcool]

30. You may see anyone who believes..

as a blithering idiot, but I don't. People have had faith in some kind of a higher power since our existence. It is not belief that is the problem, it is collective belief that is used as a tool to control, rather than a personal belief that is used to soothe the soul.

[MindPilot]

45. Actually I think belief IS the problem.

Why is "faith" even considered a virtue? It is by definition the unquestioning acceptance of something for which there is no evidence.

Anybody would be scorned and ridiculed if they openly championed the idea that leprechauns or yeti are real. But if that same person believes in an omnipotent, omniscient being who controls our lives to the minutest detail, they are admired for having "faith."

I don't get it. In our culture faith is a virtue; skepticism is not. The human race will advance exponentially when that changes.

[stillcool]

47. Perhaps you've never needed to have...

faith that there was some meaning to life and death. I have. Religious dogma may mean faith to some, but that is a teeny part of the meaning of faith. What I 'believe' is very little, but that little that "I believe" is the meaning of my faith that comes from inside, and as far as I know can not be taught.

[Fox Mulder]

31. I see it that way.

Are you beginning to understand how it is possible to see anyone who believes in god as a blithering idiot?

[Iris]

35. "only God could make that type of decision." - wtf? People make that type of decision every day.

Just like the op's brother and sil. And the gov't when it comes to the death penalty.

Yes, these people are idiots.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

81. The God most DU Christians believe in gave us brains

to try to deal with our fate as best we can.

[Freedomofspeech]

13. As a retired educator, this sickens me to hear...

I taught with a bunch of rednecks here in South Western PA. What made me sick is that many of them preached their philosophies to our students. The last time I posted here was the night Sen. Obama lost so big here in Western PA. I made the statement it was because Gov. Rendell was right, these people will not vote for a black man. Boy, the Hillary supporters killed me for using the race card because he lost. I guess the truth hurts for these people!

[moc]

14. God speed to your brother and SIL in their trip to NYC.

I have a dear friend who had to have selective reduction to twins from quads. She surely would have lost all four if she had not reduced. Her twins were born early but healthy. The key to successful selective reduction is seeing someone who has done many of them.

By the way, I live in North Texas as well. Some of the attitudes can really scare the crap out of you. I hear it from other parts of the country too, like my ultra-conservative SIL in Northern Virginia who told my dh that we were "screwed" because Obama is going to win. Dh wanted to know what the last 8 years have been, lol.

[Ishoutandscream2]

19. Thank you for your post. I'll relate this to Mike

They are both quite scared at the moment. This really is their last chance to have kids. I have talked to Mike about adoption, but Kim is really wanting to have one (or more) on her own. Andrew has left an empty place in their hearts. He really was a sweet little baby.

That's why they're going all the way to New York. Their doctor down here said this person in New York is one of the best. Mike and Kim will try to make it a little vacation, and see a few things. Kim tires easily, so they in turn will take it easy.

And yes, have these idiots paid any attention to the previous 8 years? My God, we are already "screwed." God, the gall of some people.

[moc]

23. Please feel free to PM me.

I suffered through infertility as well, so I understand what Kim aches for. If I can provide any support to her, I would be more than happy to. I can also put her in touch with my friend. I think her reduction was in Philly, but I could be wrong. Her twins just turned 10.

Best regards.

[Ishoutandscream2]

27. I will. And I'll talk to Kim and see if she 's comfortable with that

Thank you.

[Iris]

24. There is so much fucked up about your day, I don't even know where to begin.

I am always blown away by K-12 teachers who are conservatives.

I'm glad you stuck to your guns. I would have had a hard time not slapping the woman who said my SIL should die.

[Ishoutandscream2]

I swear, I can't see straight right now

Here I am talking to you guys, and I have mounds of work to do. But I just can't focus. I have to share this with someone who understands. Sad I have to do it through a computer instead of talking to life people. This place is the only place that understands me (besides my immediate family).

[Iris]

32. believe me, I can relate. I live in GA.

:)

[indypaul]

25. Don't mistake education with intelligence. n/t

[Ishoutandscream2]

28. Touche'

You are very right, my friend.

[Iris]

29. or.. don't mistake a college degree with an education.

There are many ways to educate yourself. There are many who have been to college and have chose not to educate themselves.

[Terran]

34. Obama knows he's going to have to work twice as hard.

All black people know this, it's a just a fact of life here in Murca.

[dgibby]

37. Rebuttal

Next time some idiot says it's "God's will", just ask If God knows he/she is giving Him a bad name! That should take the wind out of the sails a little. I also usually tell them they run more people away from the church than they recruit to the church. Good luck to your family-I hope everything goes well and that they become parents of healthy, happy children.

[zonmoy]

40. If someone said that to me.

I would have said to them "thank you for showing me gods sociopathic nature. Knowing the monster he is makes it real easy to avoid him. "

[sudopod]

39. You have the patience of a stone. *salute*

:hug:

[TheWraith]

41. These people enrage me with their magical thinking.

The whole "God's will" argument is fallacious on the face of it. Suppose a person went out and sat in the middle of a field, and said that if it was God's will that they survive, food and water and shelter would be provided? When that person starved to death, would that mean it was God's will that they died? No, it would mean they starved to death in the middle of a field because they expected God to do everything for them.

It's a cheap, belittling argument, that blames God for all the good and evil in the world, and simultaneously drags the creator of the universe down to the level of a petty magician. Oh, you have faith, do you? Well, then God will magically conjure all the things you need, like money, food, and a solution to your reproductive issues, because the all powerful ruler of the cosmos has nothing better to do than wait on his self-deluding followers hand and foot. Ironic--they're the ones who claim to believe in a mighty God, capable producing gifts out of thin air, but incapable of doing simple things like preventing wars.

If we followed that kind of logic, we'd still be squatting in caves because if God had wanted us to live in houses, he'd have built them for us, and if God had wanted us to have hospitals and medicine, he'd have provided them. "God's will" is the simplest fall-back explanation that people put out when they can't give a better reason.

Of course it never penetrates their minds that it doesn't work like that, no matter how many times they pray to win the lottery or have that sick relative cured, because they need that security blanket of absolute faith to avoid the painful reality of uncertainty and genuine self-exploration. And if any of them get disillusioned, they're written off by the rest of the pack as having a lack of faith.

[MindPilot]

46. I wish I could rec a post.

Bravo! Well-said!

[ColbertWatcher]

42. The 30% number might not be correct...

...I believe that 30% number is based on 30% of voters, not 30% of America's population.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but if less than half America's population votes, that 30% is probably closer to 15%.

[ThoughtCriminal]

50. Well, that assumes that

100% of the non-voting population is not on their side. You would have to look at opinion polls that do not exclude non-voters.

[lumberjack_jeff]

43. "What's frightening is that these are college educated people."

Those who aren't college educated get a bum rap here.

Those who have to struggle to obtain life's necessities have a better perspective on adversity than most of "the educated".

The people to whom you were speaking are insulated by a variety of factors that they can't see, recognize or acknowledge from misfortune. Working class folks are ready, willing and able to work for anyone who shares their priorities, regardless of gender or race.

[Ishoutandscream2]

53. Yes, you are right. And I should have been clearer

Many here think that Texans are all a bunch of country bumpkins, and that's simply not true. I was trying to say that these are not your "stereotypical" Texans, yet they have those backwards political ideas that are associated with "Texans."

[proud2BlibKansan]

44. Wow 99% of the teachers I work with are liberals

I can't even imagine people like you describe in our profession. Thank you for giving me a reason to be grateful.

As for your abortion story, I have a SIL and a close friend who both came down with cancer while pregnant. SIL chose to carry the baby to term but she almost died and couldn't have any more babies. Friend had an abortion and got her cancer treated and went on to have another kid. Both were told they could die if they carried their babies to term. I am so grateful they had a CHOICE. That is why I am pro-choice. Even my devoutly Catholic mother changed her mind about choice when our family was touched by these tragedies.

[tabasco]

49. What a bunch of ass munches.

Ever consider moving?

[Ishoutandscream2]

52. Yes, countless times

But I have too many family ties. I am essentially responsible for my elderly mother, and my wife's grandmother also lives in our community. Plus, my wife's entire family is in the Metroplex. I'm stuck, at least for awhile.

[ljm2002]

51. "it's in God's hands"...

...so I assume that the woman who said this, is also against fertility treatments. After all, that is playing God, is it not? And of course, there is the little matter of discarded embryos...

But really, no, it is not an issue for them until the potential life is implanted in some woman's womb -- which should be a clue for us all. Then all hell breaks loose, the woman is presumed to have no say whatsoever, and if that means she will die, well then So Be It. At least they can claim Piety with a capital P.

Assholes.

When my grandma had her 5th child, back in the 40's, she had gone way over term and he was a very large baby -- he weighed in at 11 pounds, so family lore has it. It was a difficult birth, and it was done at a Catholic hospital. Back then, abortion was illegal -- but the Catholic doctor came very close to killing that baby to save the mother -- he would have crushed its head with a forceps, a not-uncommon procedure when the choice had to be made between a mother with children at home who needed caring for, vs. a new baby. Fortunately, this was not necessary, and both mother and baby pulled through. But there was no big debate, no one telling the doc he was a murderer for doing what was necessary. At least back then it was recognized that doctors routinely had to make life and death decisions, and people had the common sense to recognize that sometimes there are tradeoffs to be made.

Yeah, we've really come a long way, baby.

[tom_paine]

56. Damn, you handle yourself well, sir! K & R!

I've got to give your credit, some real credit, for what you said and how you did it. I guess, due to where you live, you have to be able to do that, and you have done it WELL. I can't even talk to them anymore. The sight of them makes me sick...the sickness a Jew feels for a Nazi, even a Kinder and gentler Nazi, a Bushie. These people are the mental spit and image of the Good Germans, and there is no atrocity they would not accept if an explanation, any explanation no matter how nonsensical, emanated from Michael Savage and Fox "News" to placate them. And of course one would emanate.

But I must ask you. I am merely asserting from afar. And while PA has it's share of vile Bushies and Good Germans, I cannot imagine ever living in a land DOMINATED by them. So I can only speculate at what it would be like to live in a land with 30% Vile Hardcore Bushies and 30% Good Germans. Not that I am dissing your home, there are good and decent people everywhere, but that composition is the composition, and reality is reality.

So I ask you, those people at the luncheon, and more importantly the trends you observe in their young adult children and as an educator. From one who sees it's face directly and often. As I said, after seven strident years of "Paul Revere-ing", I am no longer nearly so active, so I don't even see it's face in my own Sonuvabitchin' Yankee State let alone the heart of the Bush Rebfederacy.

What are they and their children and their children's children capable of? What will they do when the oil and gas pressures begin to harm their Fantasy Bubble? When gas is $10/gal.? These are college-educated good Germans, you say, not hardcore Bushies, right? On them rests much. If they resist no horrors, not even with their voices, then horrors will come, whether it be in 10 years or 25.

I am interested to hear your thoughts on the matter.

ON A SEPARATE NOTE:

Of course, as you well know it's almost time for the Great Pre-Election Gasoline Price Discount and Bushie "Campaign Contribution" that will most likely, if not for certainly be occurring in just a couple more months. Will it drop back below $3.00 briefly? You betcha. Because the Bushie Oil Vassals KNOW that the $3 barrier is now very important psychologically, so it will be breached. Maybe not below $2.90, as there are very real pressures being exerted on oil, and not all the vast price increases are not wholly a result of Bushie Fraud and Theft, I think, but that which is will briefly, as it was after 9/11 and the Phony Enron Energy Crisis, in Fall 2002, Fall 2004, and fall 2006, be foregone.

It's coming...watch for it.


Even now, though, IS&S, I would never say anything like "They will always need to be the lower 30%." Don't get me wrong, I well understand your pain and your anger over what these shortsighted, thoughtless, mostly conscience-less Bushie goobs have done to this once-proud, once-free nation. Basically, they sold us all, including their children's children, down the river for a bag of trinkets.

But let us not forget the wisdom of the Founding Dads, either. If they were to truly become the permanent low 30% (which is, incidentally, at the very least what they have planned and executed for OUR 30% of the nation - I'll say the other 40% are apathetic, since they don't vote), do you not think someone would rise from among our ranks, perhaps an authoritarian leftist, and not just a mild authoritarian leftist like Hugo Chavez -no worse and probably much better than the Bushies, and try to do essentially the same thing.

I know that intellectually, you don't need to be reminded of these things. But sometimes it's good to have someone say it to you, anyway, at times when perhaps anger overwhelms our bearings.

Feel free to return the favor to me anytime, IS&S! :hi:

But again, :toast: :beer:, K&R and bravo for your handling of the situation.

:thumbsup: :thumbsup:

[Ishoutandscream2]

59. Hey, Tom, good to hear from ya

You ask a wonderful question concerning the children of these folks.  I have to admit, at my school, I am proud of quite a few of our student body.  Our class president is African American.  So was our homecoming queen and our drum major.  Senior boy most likely to succeed is Hispanic.  And the AA student population is in single digits, and Hispanic students are about at 12%.  But still...
I was subbing for Pre-AP French 3 while the classe's teacher was administering an AP Spanish exam.  One student of Indian descent (the country) knew about my leanings and loaned me her Communist Manifesto book.  I was a bit stunned, and asked if her family was okay about this.  She said absolutely.  We proceeded to talk privately about religion, and she mentioned one of our fundy students told her that Ghandi was in hell because he hadn't accepted Christ as his savior.  We both laughed, and I mentioned if Ghandi was in hell, then that's where I wanted to go.
I'm afraid, Tom, that my community is full of bigots like that.  As one of my liberal Christian students calls it, "bad theology."  For every one student that I see hope, the other three are almost lost causes, just like their moms and dads.  They'll still drive their Hummers, get accepted to Texas A%M or SMU, and go to work for Daddy or some of his friends and make lots of money (sound like someone we know?).
This is my home.  I was born and raised here.  I really would like to move, but like I said in a previous post, there's just too many family responsibilities for me here.  As one person so rudely told me in 2004, "you just need to move to Massachusetts."  Believe me, I would feel so at peace there with people of similar views.  I would miss the Tex Mex food, however, LOL.
I keep waiting for the bubble to burst.  I keep waiting to hear some of these people comment that they made a mistake trusting the Bush junta.  But they're stubborn, Tom.  They'll never admit that their cause is a lost one.  Just like when I was jeered at concerning Obama...do they in their right freaking minds really think McCain is a stronger and a more viable candidate than Obama?  I have to think they really don't think that, but they can't say that publicly.  So, meanwhile, they'll walk into the voting booths in November, and like baaing sheep pull the straight Republican ticket.  No matter how much it may hurt them and the nation.
Mike called me tonight, by the way, right after I got home from work about 8pm.  I didn't mention the discussion with the lady.  I had to refrain myself from almost crying.  It was so cruel and heartless, and it sucked the wind out of me.  And then, the colleague who said the N word about Obama.  A good friend that I NEVER WOULD HAVE THOUGHT WOULD SAY SUCH A THING.  I have been so let down by so many of my colleagues the last 7 years.  It's going to be really tough going to work tomorrow, and the day after that...
Yes, they are college educated good Germans, as you so smartly stated.  They have the degrees, but are incapable of critical thought.  They claim that folks like us, Michael Moore, the Dixie Chicks, etc. are "traitors."  "Traitors" because we ask questions.  Because we want answers.  Because we want democracy.
Thanks for your kind words.  Like I said, I dig your passion Tom.  Maybe some day I'll get up there and see ya some time.  Love ya, bud! 

[Ishoutandscream2]

62. Sorry, hard to read

Tried to edit, but had problems with paragraphs. Guess I'm tired. Sorry about the jumbled, rambling style, Tom.

[tom_paine]

66. "I have been so let down by so many of my colleagues the last 7 years."

You and me both. It's insane. We look and we say just what we said when we (rhetorically-speaking) were the 1% to first see what Caesar or Hitler or feel free to choose from the dozens of historically analagous figures who were beloved of many. Like Bush, not always a majority. As we have seen, only 30% are required, if all the Constitutional burglar alarms have been properly disconnected, to paraphrase Vonnegut.

Never forget that, like the Jews of Nazi Germany, it is we who are maltreated, our power stolen, our rights, and likely within a half-century or much sooner, our basic Liberty as well. Like the Jews of Nazi Germany, we are accused by the "super-patriotic" Nazis or Bushies of being traitors.

As always, when authoritarianism rears it's ugly head in it's brand new freshly shed and repackaged/rebranded skin, it is the "super-patriots" who always and I mean ALWAYS (try to think of a case in history where this was not true, from witch-burning to the Bushie McCarthyites, fresh from their 1934 attempt to overthrow FDR and ally with the Nazis) turn out to be the traitors themselves.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/history/document/document_20070723.shtml

I can completely relate to your pride and love of your home, as well as your unwillingness to retreat. I feel the same way.

It sounds like it all took a lot out of you. I know it's hard but you did so damned great in maintaining your civility and making your points eloquently and I know you will find your strength and keep soldiering on.

I admire the way you stood your ground.

Read some of the original Tom Paine, he always helps me find the core of my Inner Patriot to dig for the fire to keep on. The famous Dec. 1776 chronicle These are the times that try men's souls. The summer soldier and the sunshine patriot will at this time shrink from the service of their country, but they that stand it now deserve the love and thanks of every man and woman... says it all in the first page, but is filled with amazing and powerful words all the way through.

And we ragtag liberals, lefties, center-lefties and Liberal Libertarians, mostly abandoned by our concilitory and far-removed leaders (with a handful of notable exceptions), are the inheritors of those Founding Dads. Funny how things go full circle. When you think about the absolute command the Bushies exercise in herding the Toady Media using their own Bushie Lie Machine as sort of sheepherder and flock of ravening Rotweiler-sheepdogs rolled up into one, it could easily be said that we are in as uneviable a position as the Founding Fathers were when they stood up David to the Goliath of Britain and King George.

Man, I am sorry about that. Sorry to preach at you, but damn this stuff gets me going and it is real. The only question is how bad it will get if we cannot turn it around. Augustus bad? That would be things getting not worse than they are now, or even a little better. Tiberius bad? Or, if our Inverted Totalitarianism with it's relatively free-seeming daily personal lives, reverts to Classical Totalitarianism under the economic and environmental stresses, Pinochet bad? Then there's the worse, we are still far from that, and we don't even want to think about that. Hopefully that is the most unlikely scenario, but from what you are telling me, it's a bit more likely than maybe I first thought.

[Ishoutandscream2]

71. Yes, I was a lone voice up to the invasion of Iraq

I've never seen a bunch of so-called Christians so itching for war in my life. It was like one DUer posted a view years back. He said he was in a bar when combat operations began, and the whole bar exploded into loud cheers when they saw explosions go off in Baghdad. He said he felt so sad and ashamed. We were such a minority then.

I have read some of Paine, and I need to go back to reading some more about our Founding Fathers. I asked my wife for McCullough's biography of John Adams for Father's day. I know it came out a while back, but never got the chance to read it. I get six weeks off in the summer, and I always try to do a lot of "pleasure reading" which I count historical biographies as pleasure.

These people, Tom, would be the ones who would not mind giving up their liberties for "safety." They would be the ones to turn to what you said concerning some form of totalitarianism. Yes, they would be good Germans in 1930's Germany. As you so brilliantly stated, they are "educated good Germans." I certainly don't want to live in a country of fear and suspicion, as I know you do not, either. They have lived in fear of the evil "Islamofascists" and they actually took the color coded warnings seriously when they first came out. These people are frightened, and thanks to a media that Dr. Goebbels would be proud of, kept in the dark about actual events. The media, along with our government, is complicit in war crimes, as far as I'm concerned.

Jimmy Carter said it would only take 10 minutes in Obama's inaugural speech to bring us back to respectable world standing by stating we would never do what we have done the past 7 years. That would be a good start. I hope with all sincerity to hear a repeat of FDR's inaugural speech in 1933 - "the only fear we have to fear is fear itself." We all need to hear this from a leader. And we need a good one. Obama, hopefully, will fill the bill.

[Ishoutandscream2]

73. "The only thing we have to fear is fear itself"

Hate misquoting FDR.

[EmeraldCityGrl]

57. You know, you really should have returned with the glass of iced tea and

dumped it on his pea brained head, but then, that's just me.

Geez...I sure hope I get through this campaign without landing in jail.

[cory817]

58. DFW

I'm in DFW also and it bothers me that we get this reputation, I guess it's warranted but it's still a really great place to live. Maybe it's the people I'm around but I don't encounter many with that mindset that are obsessed with political beliefs, and I'm usually surprised by how open minded and decent people are. I'm an Architect so I'm around a variety of different people from artsy hipsters to country construction workers and it's nice, and I guess I'm kind of naive but I just try to get along with everybody even when I disagree with them.

But then I also think it's weird to talk about politics and personal beliefs so openly especially in a semi-professional setting, why did they feel the need to out you as the "liberal" like it's your only identifiable trait and why do they assume this? I have no idea who most of my coworkers voted for.

[Ishoutandscream2]

61. I'm a freak to them, and they like me (believe it or not)

I guess it all started in the late 90's with all the anti-Clinton crap they were throwing around at my school, and I just happened to defend him. And it's been like that ever since.

[Ilsa]

60. These people are so dangerous in groups. I'm surprised the anti-choice

counselor didn't call for your execution immediately by the republicans in the crowd. She's have your SIL lose all the babies and her own life before they made a medical decision for themselves. Their group-think is lynch-mob-mentality.

[Ishoutandscream2]

64. It is, Ilsa, but I'm fortunate that these people actually like me

I guess I'm their own little freak show.

[Ilsa]

74. BTW, how is your SIL and brother?

Feel free to email me on DU if you want to answer there. I don't mean to pry, but I am always interested in the choices other families have to make. I am an older mom myself, and had "lightweight" fertility treatment for my first. Had my second child at 41. Your relatives will get no judgment from me, only wishes for a safe pregnancy for mom and babies.

[Ishoutandscream2]

78. Right now, scared

Next week in New York will be a very stressful one. Kim is desperate to carry at least one through full term. They have had so many difficulties. I really worry about the stress on her own body. And my own brother's mental health is really starting to worry me. I'm taking him to a baseball game on Saturday. I did the same for him last year a couple of weeks after Andrew died. Amazingly, my brother caught a foul ball. Mike is a bit of a sentimentalist, and he said Andrew guided the ball to him.

Thanks for your good wishes. Kim is approaching 36, and my brother is 38. No matter what happens, they will be done with this. If things don't turn out, I sure wish they'd adopt. But, of course, it's really none of my business. I'll let everyone know how things turn out in New York when they get back.

[Ilsa]

79. I'll keep them in my thoughts. Hugs to them all. nt

[RB TexLa]

63. Put this is GDP and you'll have 20 or so people tell you that you are lying because

"whites are not racists," and that you are a racist for making up your lie about a white being a racist.

:crazy:

[Ishoutandscream2]

65. Anyone who would say that would be insane

This day has hurt so much. To hear a good friend that I would never imagine saying something like that...Racism is alive and well out there. It may be a little more subtle than in the past, but it's still there.

[struggle4progress]

67. Texas:

:eyes:

[Kitty Herder]

68. So, according to this anti-choice woman, we are never to defend a person's life

against something/someone who threatens it because that would be against God's will?

If someone with a knife were threatening the life of her child, and she had a gun, she would not use that gun to defend her child because that would be going against God's will?

[Quantess]

70. What is it about abortion that is such a lightning rod for some?

I have been baffled by the glaring "pro-life" anti-choice hypocrisy for most of my adult life. What a seemimg conundrum, since most anti-choicers don't give a rip about babies once they are born. But recently, I reached the conclusion that the "pro-life" issue is not about protecting the unborn at all. They really aren't hypocrites, you see.

The emotional core of the "pro-life" hysteria boils down to this: Sluts should not escape the consequences of their immoral behavior. Women can't go around having sex without being paying the consequences of disease or pregnancy. Preferably both. If she's not ready to be pregnant, she shouldn't be having sex. Sluts should not be allowed to escape the consequences!

That is the only line of thinking, that I have have found, that properly explains the anti-choice stance.

Edit: the only hypocrisy is when the anti-choicers decide that it's okay to have an abortion in their own situation. Which probably happens more often than we'd think.

[Iris]

76. or course, what you describe does fit into their world view.

Eve ate the apple, God told her part of her punishment would be childbirth and how DARE ANY WOMAN make any attempt to escape her just punishment?

[mnhtnbb]

72. It's very tough to be surrounded by unempathic, self-righteous, co-workers.

I feel for you.

We spent 12 years living in MO and NE where I felt like a fish out of water. We now live in Chapel Hill, NC (Berkeley of the South) and I love being surrounded by truly educated, empathic people. Unless there's some real need to live where you are, it makes life a lot more fun to be in a place where you feel you belong.

[AngryAmish]

77. The consolation is that after the election these people will not have a job

Oh, and the joy of kicking their fat, ugly children out of school.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

80. "College educated" means nothing these days

Thanks to grade inflation, you have to be nearly unconscious to get anything below a B average, and if you major in business or elementary education, you can get by with almost no liberal arts courses. If you go to a party school, studying may be something you do only before tests and between hangovers.