Marine in Iraq Suspended Over Coins Quoting Gospel

[AlCzervik]

By Amit R. Paley
Washington Post Foreign Service
Friday, May 30, 2008; A08

BAGHDAD, May 29 -- The U.S. military suspended a Marine on Thursday for distributing coins quoting the Gospel to Sunni Muslims, an incident that has enraged Iraqis who view it as the latest example of American disrespect for Islam.

The Marine, stationed in the western city of Fallujah, handed out silver-colored coins this week that said in Arabic: "Where will you spend eternity? (John 3:36)." The other side read: "For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life (John 3:16)."

"We are sorry for this behavior," said Mike Isho, a U.S. military spokesman in Anbar province, which includes Fallujah. He said the Marine, whom he did not identify, distributed only a few of the coins and that the episode was under investigation.

"This incident doesn't represent the morals of the Marines," he said.

Mohammed Amin Abdel-Hadi, the head of the Sunni Endowment in Fallujah, an institution responsible for overseeing the sect's mosques, criticized U.S. troops, whom many in the city view as occupiers, for acting like Christian missionaries. He said the coins were part of a pattern of insensitivity toward Muslims, citing the outcry this month over a U.S. sniper in Baghdad who used a Koran, Islam's holiest book, as a target for practice.

"We demand the Americans leave us alone and stop creating religious controversies," Hadi said. "First, they shot the Koran, and now they come to proselytize inside Fallujah."

Mohammed Jassim al-Dulaimi, 43, said a Marine forced one of the coins into his hand Tuesday morning as he passed through a checkpoint at the western entrance to Fallujah. He said he was shocked when he read it.

"The claims that the occupation is a Crusader War make sense now," Dulaimi said.

More at link

[MikeNearMcChord]

1. What do they mean suspension?

Article 15? Sent home? Court Martial? And please don't tell me it was some E-4 or below.

[AlCzervik]

3. i read in another article that he was "Immediately reassigned".

[Squatch]

5. Removed from his assigned post

is the way I read that. I don't see how they're could wring an Article 15 or Court Martial out of this one.

[Dogtown]

8. Apparently there is a rule against proselytizing

That would make it at least an article 15 offense, just like a traffic ticket on a military base is.

Pretty minor punishment for the shame he's caused this country. I'd like to see a Bad Conduct discharge, but I don't know enough about military law, that may not be possible.



They should work on that.

[Squatch]

9. The commander has many more options to exercise before an Article 15

and the prudent choice would be relief from current duties, which has occurred. Every time a rule is broken should not necessarily result in NJP or courts martial. The commander would be mired in legal proceedings and would be rendered ineffective if that were the case.

[Dogtown]

14. It's been many years

since my military service and it seems things have changed.

Or my memory isn't so good.

I know I got an article 15 in the army for a traffic ticket on base and I thought that was the lowest form of punishment other than trainee punishments.


Thanks for the information!

[Squatch]

19. A mere traffic ticket, by itself, wouldn't warrant an Article 15

Commanders who use or threaten to use Article 15's for any infraction, however minor, often find themselves rendered ineffective as leaders.

Now, that is to say that an Article 15 does not have its place in a commander's toolkit to ensure the good order and discipline of his or her unit. However, breaking out that tool too often would mire a commander in paperwork when more direct and immediate forms of discipline enforcement would have gotten the same results (but quicker).

[nosmokes]

2. So now it's supposed to be one lone marine who did this all on his ownsome?

Sorry but I ain't buying that. I reckon I'm sposed to bleive ths jarhead translated the bible verse into arabic and stamped out the coins all by hisself too, huh?

[AlCzervik]

4. here's another link and some more info.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/may/30/usa.iraq

A US military spokesman said he was unsure where the silver coins came from but speculated that they may have been sent to the young Marine from outside Iraq.

[Squatch]

6. May have been supported by his church back home...

[Canuckistanian]

10. He appears to be an expert on the Arabic Language, metallurgy and coin production

He should be working for the Iraqi mint.

[Ghost in the Machine]

12. You can order them in 80 different languages, and get them shipped to you for free

I know someone who gets 5000 of them every few months and leaves them sitting in bowls at his flea market booth with a "free" sign on them... oh, yeah... that's *my* booth, too.... hey, we live in the buckle of the bible belt... it's amazing to watch people stop, then back up to pick one up to see what it is... and it gets them looking at other stuff in your booth.

There's no big government or military conspiracy here... calm down some, ok?

[nosmokes]

13. The Guardian piece said it went on for two days so I bet there was at least

two of them involved in passing these damn things out, and two makes a conspiracy in my book when it comes to idiotic shit like this. Our troops shouldn't be there in the first place, much less acting as if they're on another Christian Crusade on my tax dollar. You want me to calm down? I wanna know why it doesn't fire you up?

[DS1]

15. It doesn't fire me up because I don't care

Just like I can say "no thanks" to J Dubs at my door, the Iraqis can choose to ignore these few people.

[Ghost in the Machine]

16. It doesn't "fire me up" because I don't see it as any kind of big deal..

..probably some poor, lonely soldier who fears for his life every fucking day and is coping with it the best (or only) way he knows how. If he finds comfort & solace in Jesus, so be it... and maybe, *just maybe*, he saw someone else frightened and/or confused and decided to pass along and share *his* source of solace...

two of them involved in passing these damn things out, and two makes a conspiracy in my book when it comes to idiotic shit like this.

Your book seems to be missing a few chapters from it's already very short story....

Our troops shouldn't be there in the first place,

Yes, I agree 100%, but it doesn't change the fact that they *ARE* there, does it?

much less acting as if they're on another Christian Crusade on my tax dollar

Oh yes... one soldier makes a "Christian Crusade", huh? See above comments about missing chapters & short story.

Bottom line: I'm an atheist, not a "hatetheist"... a word I made up for people who are *intolerant* of *any* religion, period. I don't care if you want to worship the flying spaghetti monster, jesus, or a taco shell with the image of the Virgin Mary on it if it makes someone want to be a better person, or if it gives someone comfort & solace in their desperate time of need...

Yes, please calm down, there is no conspiracy and no "christian crusade"

[nosmokes]

17. You're clueless.

I don't care that the GI finds solace in Jesus, more power to him. But he's not there to proselytize. And just how would you feel if heavily armed foreigners set up roadblocks and stopped you from making it to your house until you picked up their religious icon which went against everything you held sacred? Didn't you read wher the Iraqi said he felt shamed and humiliated? And the Iraqi also brought up the Crusades, BTW.

For the other poster; This is a far different proposition than a JW knocking on your door to leave some literature.

But I'm glad y'all don't see it as any big deal. That's the way the way the Pentagon looks at PTSD and lots of other serious issues. I guess cluster bombs are just a cost of doing business?

[Ghost in the Machine]

18. I usually avoid battles of wit with the unarmed, but I'll make an exception here:

"I don't care that the GI finds solace in Jesus, more power to him. But he's not there to proselytize."

Ok, I guess you'd rather just have him KILL those nasty little brown people, huh? That *IS* what he's there for.... right?



Right????


"And just how would you feel if heavily armed foreigners set up roadblocks and stopped you from making it to your house until you picked up their religious icon which went against everything you held sacred?"

I guess I'd be considered an insurgent because I'd be fighting them to their deaths, or mine, whichever came first...


"But I'm glad y'all don't see it as any big deal. That's the way the way the Pentagon looks at PTSD and lots of other serious issues. I guess cluster bombs are just a cost of doing business?"

:eyes: (doesn't merit any further comment)

Hatetheism & faux outrage are an ugly combination...

just sayin'....

[Asgaya Dihi]

7. A few bad apples? No

There have been other and maybe better articles about it but a quick web search turns up this one fast enough.

http://www.alternet.org/asoldierspeaks/67385/

It like so much else in this administration and this war didn't come from a few bad apples at the bottom, but from a pattern of abuse at the top. That soldier thought they could act like that for a reason, might have even thought they should.

[TaffyMoon]

11. GET THE F OUT OF IRAQ

Just GET OUT!