"Those illegal aliens don't want to learn English"

[Manifestor_of_Light]

Is this a right wing talking point that the gasbags on the radio repeat?

I've heard it from:
a)a black man who put a new garage door on my garage
b)a poor uneducated white man in a little bitty town
c)a rich white lady in a rich, close in suburb

What I wanted to ask them was, "Oh, so you polled ALL FOURTEEN MILLION OF THEM, in Spanish?"

The guy who put my garage door in was a real peach. He said that because it snows in Utah and Colorado in the summertime, that global warming is not real.
:banghead:

He said that Al Gore is only in it for the money.

He also said that Mexicans are rich because some Mexicans have been buying half million dollar houses in a far suburb of Houston. :banghead:

These people act horrified that we should learn Spanish. I don't think ALL illegal immigrants don't want to learn English. I'm sure some of them want to take classes, but they're probably working too hard to have time.

The garage door guy asked me if I listened to 740 AM, which is full of right wing talk radio. I said, "No, because they're gasbags. Rush is strung out on Oxycontin and he didn't go to jail for it."

:banghead:

I hate this ALL or NOTHING thinking. It's not logical and I try to think logically. ARRGGHHHHHH!!!!

[rucky]

1. The same people also don't want them in our schools.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

28. And they don't want the children born here to be citizens either.

They want to repeal the citizenship clause of the 14th Amendment. :wtf:

[rucky]

31. Pro-life, until birth.

[mac56]

38. We love the babies...UNTIL they're born!

:eyes:

[kskiska]

37. The same people say "They don't want to assimilate,"

but would they really want them living in their neighborhoods, and if they did move in, would they invite them over for a picnic? They'd probably peek through the curtains watching every move they made, then gossip about them with their "real American" friends.

[Mountainman]

2. What I don't get is why in a free country or supposedly a free country we have to decide

what language someone should speak. If they hurt their chances at life by not speaking English who's problem is it? My grandmother never learned to speak English. Her kids did and I did. That's the way it has always been and will continue to be.

[Karenina]

19. She may not have had much to say in Englisch

but I'll bet my sweet bippy she didn't miss the important stuff, word formation notwithstanding. ;-)

[Cleita]

3. I've been hearing this all my life.

The fact is that the same people who say this are the ones who don't want to learn Spanish or French or whatever language is spoken in the country they are visiting. Then all of a sudden, those "furriners" in their own country should speak English to accommodate them because they are spending their good dollars there.

[Huskerchub]

13. ummmmmmmm.....

VISITING a country and not learning the language is a far cry from IMMIGRATING to a country and not learning the language.

[Karenina]

20. And Amurikins have the WORST reputation in these parts!

:rofl:

[izquierdista]

4. This continent is not very language tolerant.

Since there are only three languages, English, then Spanish, then French in a distant third place, there are large areas of monolinguals who are afraid of people speaking other languages. This most often exhibits itself as people being offended because they think the foreigner is saying rude things about them (how they come upon this egotistical notion that people would be talking about them is another matter). Monolinguals also seem to be unable to change gears and drop back to a slower, clearer speaking cadence when speaking with others for whom the language is still giving them trouble.

Having traveled through Europe, when you get to a country with a small, unique language (like the Czech republic), you run into a completely different mindset. Being surrounded by other languages and having English as the medium of travelers, they still show pride in their own language and are flattered if you make any attempt at it. They know that your native language is just an indicator of where you were born and that no language is inherently superior or inferior to any other. Yes, it does take longer to carry on a conversation when the two parties to a conversation are not fluent in common language, but it can be done.

It's also pretty easy to pick up some phrases, so that you don't appear like a tree stump when you venture out into a foreign culture. Numbers are pretty easy to learn, and if you are an immigrant to the United States and don't know your numbers in English, then you deserve a bit of verbal abuse for being lazy. Phone numbers, addresses, sale prices, telling time, these are all things that you can do in a foreign language if you learn your numbers and just practice at it. You can hear numbers in any TV or radio ad, over the loudspeaker at K-Mart, at the bus station, everywhere.

The smaller a language region is, the more they seem to want to promote their language. In Barcelona, the newly arrived can sign up for free courses in Catalan. On the other hand, in a very large language region, like the English speaking parts of the United States, they give the impression that knowing English is like being potty-trained; if you don't know either one, then you don't belong out in public.

[rebel with a cause]

8. I agree with you on everything but one and that is

People are wrong when "they think the foreigner is saying rude things about them", because sometimes they are. :D

I went to NYC, met and married a man from Dominican Republic many years ago. I knew no Spanish and he wanted it kept that way, but I got out the book he used to learn English and began learning Spanish words out of it. As I lived in the culture (in every home we visited Spanish was spoken even thougt some there also spoke English) I began to pick up on what was being said, as I sat with my hands folded quietly in the corner. I never said anything, but I understood more than I could speak and I caught on to one thing. When the ladies were talking in Spanish, and they would stop to assure me that they were not talking about me, they were. I would smile and say that I knew they were not, and then listen as they went back to discussing me. I never got angry, never said anything back...well, except this one time.

When we went to the D.R. and two teenagers were visiting in my mother-in-laws house, laughing and giggling they said some insulting remarks about me. In perfect Dominican Spanish I said, "Look who is talking, the ugliest two girls in town." They were shock, they were horrified, they were insulted, they were gone. One of the girls was in a pre-affair flirtation with my then husband and that is what had created the situation. But the family did not believe me until after we left, then the girl confessed to my sister-in-law the truth about him and her. I hate being a know it all. :rofl:

Now seriously, I have known many immigrants throughout my lifetime, those that can learn the language usually do. The older you are the harder it is and that is why I find it especially horrible that they would punish elderly people for not learning English. Most countries are bi-lingual at the least, but we in the USA feel so superior that we demand everyone else learns ours.

[izquierdista]

11. Ah, but you set it up

By acting as if you didn't understand. Most of the time, when that charge is leveled, it is bogus.

[rebel with a cause]

23. I was not trying to prove you wrong, .

I was actually making light of my situation being different. And no I never set it up, I told people that I understood more than I could speak. They just didn't believe me. The thing of it is that it was not always negative about me, sometimes it was about my then husband and his treatment of me. Sometimes it was very positive about me but it was still about me. When they were not talking about me, they never stopped to tell me that it was not about me. I always found it funny. My sense of humor is stronger than my sense of indignation.

My case was very different than most of the time when people hear others speaking different languages. In most normal situations, people are very paranoid about those different than them. That is why some white people cross the street, hold their purses and kids close to them, and other obvious acts when they come close to people with darker complexion. And this type of behavior is not limited to white people. I have seen African Americans become very upset with Latinos and Asians who speak their own language just because of what you were talking about. And it goes through out all the different types of people.

Back to my wonderful Dominican family in NYC. Their daughter (my ex-sister-in-law) married an African American man. Her family was upset because he was Black and his family was upset because she was an immigrant and spoke with an accent. I was one of the few that was okay with the idea of them marrying. Later I realized that although her family is mostly Democrats, his is religious conservative republican. She has changed and is now politically just like him, and I regret not throwing a fit when I heard about thier marriage all those years ago. ;)

edited because of my mistakes

[Manifestor_of_Light]

27. That was an excellent story!!

[rebel with a cause]

29. Thank you. n/t

[KSCFAN]

14. You are correct sir.

Also First Generation Immigrants usually have a very hard time learning English especially if they come here as an adult. Second generation typically learns both fairly well and realize English is essential to succeding here. Thirs generation learn their grandparents language very little past what is taught at school.

This is only from my experience. My wife is a second generation Latina and when she talks to her mother on the phone I hear Spanish through the phone and english going back. My kids are learning Spanish but since it's not used at home I don't think they will ever be fluent.

The difference with the Latinos is they are still comming in. So you keep having more first generation here who can't learn English. It makes it look like a problem where none exists.

[ck4829]

5. These people need to get smart and actually talk to an immigrant

I know one (A permanent resident) and she's always asking me how her English is and always wants to learn new words.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

6. For what it's worth .....

I had a cab driver today - named Balal (I always ask my drivers' names), from Afghanistan. I asked him how long he'd been in this country - ten years, he said. Are you a citizen? I asked, because I'm like that. Yes, he said, he was.

So, pushing it even further, I asked, Are you registered to vote?

Yes, he said, and he was watching me in the rear view mirror.

Who are you going to vote for? I continued, because I have no shame.

Obama, he said. Of course. This beautiful country deserves that beautiful man.

He put his right hand over his heart.

I tipped him big.

[MountainLaurel]

7. Um, yeah

That's why pretty much anywhere that offers ESL classes, whether it be a literacy group run by a church or a community college, usually has a lengthy waiting list to get in, consisting of folks who learn a new language while working a couple of jobs.

Fact is, if those good 'Muricans tried to learn a foreign language as an adult, they couldn't handle the work it would take.

[whistler162]

9. So that is what Alan Keyes is doing now!

[Winterblues]

10. Ask them what that funny writing on our money is or on our Seal.

Why is there so much Latin on all our important documents and currency?

[Saphire]

12. I work with several immigrants....they have learned English much

quicker than I learned Spanish.

[Huskerchub]

15. of course they did...

it's called immersion training. If you were in a Spanish speaking country, where 95% or more of the people around you speak Spanish every moment of every day your would pick it up much quicker also.

[Saphire]

17. I do work with one guy, Jesus, who has been here for 7-8 years

and still claims not to speak English (yeah, right!). Personally, I think he's just a chauvinistic ass who refuses to speak to a lowly woman like me.

[Regret My New Name]

39. Maybe he just doesn't like to talk...

I often times say I don't speak english for that very same reason... Doesn't work too well though... being a white dude born in Northern California and living the US for my whole life, ya know? Ehhn, maybe I should start wearing a Canadian flag lapel pin. Then everyone would just assume I speak Canadian. ;)

[Mr. Blonde]

30. That is what my sister is doing right now

She is in Argentina learning Spanish. I hope it goes well for her. I know from my own experience there is nothing as worthless as how they teach it in high school and college, at least in Oklahoma. I got to where I could read very basic stuff, but never even close to speaking anything.

And it is important to not forget how much harder English actually is to learn from other languages. At least if you learn Spanish you are well on your way to learning French and Italian. English is more of a world unto its own. Plus all of the weird words and sayings, park in a driveway and drive on a parkway etc.

[niyad]

16. did this person speak well? college-level? I

think it ought to be required that anybody who whines about immigrants not learning english, or whining about "english only" or whatever title they put on it, should be able to demonstrate a college-level ability to speak, read and write what is supposed to be their native tongue.

english is not my native tongue, so I think it only fair that, for those whose native tongue it is, a certain level of proficiency be demonstrated.

[Karenina]

22. LOVE YOU, Niyad!!!!

:rofl::rofl::rofl:

[niyad]

18. most of the europeans I know take it as a mark of an educated person that

one speaks several languages fluently. one of my best friends speaks four, including english, in which he is much more fluent than a good many native speakers it has pained me to hear.

years ago, the foreign service had to drop its language requirements, since so few grads applying could qualify.

oh, and how about firing our arabic translators, because some of them were gay? now THERE was a bright move.

(by the way, when I go to mexico, there are a good many of the merchants and people I encounter on the streets who do speak at least some english.

[KSCFAN]

21. That's because they live in EUROPE!!!!

They live in a place where there are 10 languages within a days drive. If every state had it's own language (I'm looking in your direction Louisiana) we would be the same way.

[galledgoblin]

24. 5 years of German

and I still am stuck at Monty Python levels. (wenn ist das nustueck geht und slottenmeyer?)

I will never make fun of anyone non-native speaker of a language!

the "global warming isn't real because X" arguments make me laugh and shake my head sadly- except when they actively oppose legislation to lessen the oncoming shitstorm, which is when I get my righteous anger on.

[baldguy]

25. America has always been a multi-lingual country.

Its just an accident of history that English became the dominant language.

[FreeState]

26. This one was learning English and working two jobs until he was murdered...

Extremely sad story:


http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2004456315_ivan04m.html

...

The recent slaying of Hernandez-Vazquez, 18, a junior at Interlake, has sent shock waves through the high school and the affluent community where he was found.

.....

Those who knew Hernandez-Vazquez said they're stunned someone would target the hard-working immigrant, who held down two jobs and strove to learn English so he could return to Mexico and teach the language there. Seattle police have made no arrests in connection with the homicide. Few details have been released about the case.

"I still can't believe this happened, that this is real," said Blanca Alfaro, 36, Hernandez-Vazquez's acting guardian. Hernandez-Vazquez lived with her and her family in a two-bedroom apartment on Northeast Eighth Street.

She walked into his room on Sunday, holding a photo of him. Traces of his cologne still lingered in the air.

"This is now an empty place."...

[bunkerbuster1]

32. Spanish-speaking immigrants are learning English as fast or faster than their predecessors

study after study shows this.

Point these ignoramuses here:

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/laplaza/2008/05/foreigners-are.html

[KharmaTrain]

33. An Observation Of 30 Plus Years In Working With "Illegal Aliens"

For many years, I worked on radio shows with various ethnic groups...most were recent immigrants and not all were legal. In the 70's, I worked with a dude from Mexico who spent half the year in Chicago making money any which way he could, then spent the winters south of the border...never became an American citizen, but his kids were. This was 1975. I also met a lot of illegals from Eastern Europe...Poles and Russians who had snuck into the underground economy in the large ethnic enclaves of the city (there are always plenty of cleaning jobs downtown)...many who took advantage of every social service they could find and playing a constant shell game with the INS. This is not a new issue, nor is it only Mexicans who sneak into the country.

Language is always a weapon of the ignorant. If they look funny and sound funny, then they must be made fun of. And, sadly, it's been the "American" way for one immigrant group or minority to be pitted against another and this turns into its own form of racism.

In my many years, the English language is always the keys to the "dream" many who come here are going for. It's rising out of the barrio or the "enclave" that is a big goal of most second generation immigrants. In many cases I'd work with the kids of the show hosts...not only were they bi-lingual but also more alert of American "popular culture"...and eventually they move onto assimilate even further.

A century ago, this country was in the midst of a massive wave of immigration (it's the one that brought my grandparents to this country)...Italians, Germans, Hungarians, Poles and many others crowded cities and upset the social status quo..and many faced discrimination due to their inability to speak English well. It was their children that would rise into the melting pot as the dollar was best earned by those who know and speak English. The same is going on with this wave...and each one makes this country stronger as these people value what this country has to offer far more than most of us do.

[meow2u3]

34. You know how hard it is for non-English speaker to learn English?

Most Americans don't even speak English very well, and these are the first ones to whine about foreigners not wanting to learn the language!

It takes years for some people to learn a new language, and some can never learn, no matter how hard they try.

[raccoon]

35. I've known lots of immigrants, legal and illegal. Every one of them

(except one) wanted to learn English.

Congrats to you for your great response to the garage door guy! That one's a keeper.

[AlphaCentauri]

36. Give them the oportunity and check the results - from Welder to Doctor

It’s early afternoon on a brilliant fall day, and the 38-year-old neurosurgeon—the director of the brain tumor program at Johns Hopkins Bayview—claims to be tired. The pressures of the operating room, he says, often leave him emotionally wrung out. But this exhaustion has manifested itself in a peculiarly Alfredo-like way, as a sort of giddy elation.

“Look—look at this nice leather couch,” he crows. “There was a time when I was sleeping in a trailer. Now I’m sitting on this beautiful leather couch. People call me Dr. Q. They think I actually have something important to do.” He rubs the couch dreamily. “I feel so lucky to be here. Why me?”

Then he tells the story about how he almost died. This was April 14, 1989, when Quiñones was a 21-year-old illegal immigrant working as a welder on a railroad crew in central California. He fell into an empty petroleum tank, an 18-foot drop, and tried to escape by climbing up a rope that had been tossed down by rescuers. “As I was going up, my whole life unrolled in front of me. I saw my parents crying, my friends, everything.” At the top of the tank, he says, he clasped a co-worker’s hand and fell back into the tank, overcome by fumes. He woke up in an intensive care unit. It was the first time he had seen the inside of a hospital.

“I’ve always felt that everything that has happened since then has been a gift,” he says. “I don’t think I was meant to go beyond that.”

The degree to which Quiñones, an assistant professor of neurosurgery since last year, has exceeded expectations is a subject of recurring wonder, for him and for others. The basic narrative—penniless Mexican teenager jumps the border, learns English, and goes to Harvard Medical School to become a brain surgeon—describes such an implausible arc that one is tempted to look, in vain, for the catch. (“It’s too good to be true,” says a close friend, Harvard neurobiologist Ed Kravitz. “But it’s true.”)

And then there is the irrepressible star of this unlikely fable, Quiñones himself. Meet him and he will grin broadly, envelop your hand in a handshake, then give your shoulder a proprietorial squeeze. He greets everyone he meets like this, something his parents taught him a long time ago. In lesser hands it might come off as fake-chummy artifice, but Alfredo sells it, effortlessly. “Human behavior is strange—we treat people differently based on where they’ve been or where they are rather than who they are,” he says. “I try to treat everyone with the same respect, whether they are millionaires or the poorest person that you can conceive of. I always shake their hand and touch their shoulder. I try to standardize that.”

As Henry Brem, chair of neurosurgery here, says of the curiously driven character who joined his brain tumor team last year, “He’s not a person who accepts no. He’s a person who always wants to go beyond expectations. He wants to do what other people say is impossible.”

If that’s what he’s looking for, Quiñones has definitely come to the right place. His research focuses on the possibility of using neural stem cells to stop or even repair the damage wrought by incurable brain cancer, the devastating high-grade gliomas that, for most patients, are now all but a death sentence. Under Brem, who helped develop the Gliadel chemotherapy wafer treatment that has extended average survival rates for those with recurring malignant brain tumors by a small but significant eight weeks, Hopkins has become a frontline leader in the battle against brain cancer.

It’s the sort of hopeless cause that holds a powerful allure for Quiñones, who knows a few things about being told what he can and can’t do. “I wonder if subconsciously I was attracted to this field, just like I was attracted to coming to the United States,” he says. “Even though people said there’s no possible way, I stuck with it and gave it my best.” He applies that same attitude, he says, in the laboratory and the operating room. “I could have picked something else and had a better quality of life. My patients, they die. It’s depressing. It hurts. But I refuse to believe that there’s nothing we can do. I’m absolutely adamant about it.”

http://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/hmn/W07/feature1.cfm