John McCain on Women in the Military

[blonndee]

Women's combat roles are likely to be on next president's agenda

John McCain, after his release as a POW, said only men belong in battle. He stands by his record.
By Ralph Vartabedian, Los Angeles Times Staff Writer
May 27, 2008

Soon after the Gulf War in 1991, a group of military women pressed Congress to allow female pilots to fly combat missions. But a Vietnam War hero in the Senate, John McCain, pushed back hard.

"The purpose of the military is first to defend this nation's vital security interests throughout the globe and only second to ensure equality," the Arizona Republican argued on the Senate floor, framing the issue in a way that infuriated feminists.

<snip>

McCain's aides said only that he stood by his past positions, suggesting that he would resist pressures for change.

In the 1991 debate over women pilots, McCain took a traditionalist stance. "This nation has existed for over 215 years," McCain said. "At no time in the history of our nation have women been in combat roles."

<snip>
McCain's long-standing opposition to women in combat has raised questions among his critics about his commitment to women's rights.

Women's groups say he has a weak legislative record on such issues as equal pay and workplace discrimination, and his support has lagged among female voters.

As a lawmaker, critics say, McCain sometimes has had strained relations with women in power. Former Rep. Patricia Schroeder (D-Colo.), who spearheaded the effort to grant women the right to fly in combat, called McCain a product of a "guy culture."

"He has always had trouble dealing with women as equals," Schroeder said.

<snip>

In an interview with Navy public relations officials after his release, McCain said women should never be allowed to enter combat. "Some of the people that might capture them can be pretty mean," he said.

<snip>

http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-na-militarywomen27-2008may27,0,5521290.story?page=1

[annabanana]

1. Kick - bookmark - recommend!. . I really don't think he likes women much.

He certainly doesn't have much respect for them..

[FrenchieCat]

2. Yep...Bookmarked....

so that Hillary-McCain supporters can see who they are supporting.

[theoldman]

3. Sorry, but I agree with McCain on this one.

I do not think women should be allowed to be captured. They are also raped by our own men. This was not a problem when I was in the army 50 years ago. It is not disrespectful of women.

[WildEyedLiberal]

5. You do realize male soldiers are not treated well when captured either?

"I do not think women should be allowed to be captured." But men should? Being captured, tortured, raped, etc is not a fun experience for the men either - I do not understand the logic that thinks it's an acceptable burden for men to bear, but not women. Women - least of all military women who know what the reality of combat is like - are not delicate flowers that need to be "protected" from some hideous fate that it is somehow okay to subject our male soldiers to.

[wuushew]

6. Doing nothing will not result in the education of the ignorant

I am sure all those racists were not happy with Truman when he desegregated the armed forces.

[Schema Thing]

7. I'm not going to demonize him on this one, after what he went thru

I think that train has left the station however. Equal is equal.

Let's just shoot for less war, better yet, NO war, and then we won't have to worry about it.

And that's where McCain really falls short.

[JerseygirlCT]

13. In those cases... the problem isn't with the women

The problem is that rape by their own is allowed, and not punished as harshly as it should be.

Blaming women for men's failings is never right.

And women AND men will be captured. And, guess what? Raped. That's the price that troops going into combat might pay. They all know it. There's absolutely no need to treat women differently there.

[Captain Hilts]

18. I see your point, but the military now needs a higher % of smart people and there are not enough...

men signing up who would make the cut.

Without a draft, it's all about the demographics of the folks who will enlist.

[blondeatlast]

19. 1954 was sooo 15 minutes ago.

:wow:

[noamnety]

22. Soldiers raping women WAS a problem 50 years ago.

Soldiers of every nationality have been raping women as part of militarism for centuries, and your army of 50 years ago was no exception to that. Some of those were enemy women captured and raped, some were "comfort women" who were forced into prostitution.

Just because their skin was less white or they weren't wearing a US uniform doesn't make it any less of a rape.

Point being the problem isn't women serving in the military. The problem is men in the military committing rape.

[blondeatlast]

25. Precisely--theoldman's post was a classic "blame the victim" gambit.

It's just in this case, it's proactive.

[TheWraith]

24. I hate to be the one to put it this way, but... and?

In the context of prisoners captured, with the Geneva conventions being ignored, is being raped REALLY that much worse than anything that can be done to a male soldier? Who can also be raped, I'll remind you. Beatings, cutting, drowning, electrocution, live dissection... it's a nasty list. The only way to prevent bad things from happening to captured soldiers is to not be captured.

[treestar]

4. Yet another example of how out of touch he is

[Killy]

8. I know this probably won't be liked.

I know people are going to think of me as out of touch, or ignorant, or simply not thinking of women as equals, but to me on a very personal level - the idea of women being in combat, possibly being captured, raped, tortured or many other issues just hits me right down in the gut. It's an idea that I just can't look at from a purely objective point of view.

I will defend any woman's right to be in the army and right there with the men all along the way, but the idea is still a very terrifying and disturbing idea to me for all of the problems that it would bring to those women who get into the unfortunate situation of being captured and possibly mistreated by our own soldiers, other countries soldiers, or terrorists.

I would never dream of trying to deny a woman the right to do that if she wishes, but I could never like it or really feel like it was "right" to me, as a man, to possibly hear or see women in those situations.

EDIT: Not that it's ever right for anyone to be in those situations, but it would be especially terrifying and horrible when it's women in those situations.

[Raine1967]

10. I won't be popular for saying this either...

so let's be unpopular together... :)

Woman, if they choose to serve deserve all the rights, both good and bad that men have. That includes the right to be killed in war if they choose to serve.

Do you think for ONE minute if we ever have a draft that woman won't be a part of it? I am a woman and to me equality is equality. That means if my sisters chooses to serve, they should be able to serve equally with my brothers.

And to tell you a truth that scares the hell out of me. I have a niece, 13, and a nephew 10 who are looking at that very real possibility of the draft.

Equal is equal. As women, we can't have it both ways. If we are willing to call ourselves feminists and are willing to send our brothers, fathers and sons out there, we need to expect the same from ourselves. If we really want to be equals, we deserve the same right to die for our country, if we choose to sign up for the military.

[JerseygirlCT]

17. Well, I suspect you're coming at this with

chivalrous intentions, but they backfire. Women and men will be mistreated when in enemy hands. That's probably a given, and one made more likely thanks to our recent torturing of prisoners.

But I think what you're missing here is that women are every bit as strong, emotionally, psychologically, as men. They may lack some of the male upper body strength, but they are *stronger* in a biological sense. Women deal with pain better, for instance. (I assume you've not personally given birth - believe me, we know from pain.)

And the kicker is that moving up in a military career really requires combat experience. Denying women who want it that opportunity denies them a chance to rise in the ranks. That's misplaced chivalry, I'm afraid.

[Killy]

21. I suppose.

Maybe so, even still I can't help how I feel about this. The idea of women being put in the front lines and possibly being killed, maimed, captured, tortured, raped or any other numerous problems that can occur just makes my skin crawl and my stomach churn. Yes, it's terrible when these things happen to men, but I just can't feel the same way. Maybe it's because I'm a man and I would gladly rather be drafted in place of a woman so she could live while I go off to die, but it's just something at the very core of who I am. Every fiber of my being tells me that a woman to be put in those situations is just wrong beyond wrong.

Even with all of that emotional programming, if there was a vote on it, I'd still vote yes for every woman to have that right. I may not like it, but I'll defend to the death your right to be there.

As for the not moving up in the ranks without combat experience, I admit that's pretty nasty as is, and I wish there was a way for women to move up even if they can't fight in battle. But, I'm not a military man, so I can't really say much about the validity of that idea.

[biscotti]

9. Toward the end of this article they quote a

Col. Martha McSally as saying:
"The experience of Jessica Lynch, the celebrated Army private who was taken prisoner early in the Iraq war, illustrates the risks. She eventually revealed in her book that she was brutally beaten and raped."

Has anyone read Jessica Lynch's book? I checked Snope's and it doesn't show anything. I guess I never heard or read about rape. Anyone know this to be fact?

[tblue37]

11. In articles I have read about her, she has been reported to have said

that she was well treated by her captors.

[biscotti]

16. Yes that is what I had read also, that she was treated well.

That is why I asked because it seemed so opposite of her statements at the time. I was wondering if this was part of some new mis-information being spread by Mc Same's team.

[blonndee]

14. From what I have gathered Rick Bragg reveals this in a book about her.

There's still quite a bit of argument about just what happened to her, if you skim different articles about it. Whatever happened, that young woman went through quite an ordeal.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2003-11-06-lynch_x.htm

[Raine1967]

15. I have not read the book... BUT...

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2003-11-06-lynch_x.htm

This link says that she does not recall what happened to her. I personally feel that rape is just as bad as any other torture. I do. Having been raped, I don't think i would choose waterboarding over rape...

I do not mean to be so inflammatory, but I just think torture is awful. rape is not just a thing that is inflicted upon woman.

[TheWraith]

26. I think that woman is mistaken.

If it's the book I'm thinking of, it wasn't Lynch's, really. And it provided no real evidence that she was assaulted. From what I know, I'd suspect that the evidence they allude to is actually a result of her injuries in the crash--it's complicated. But to my knowledge Lynch herself has never said she was raped, or even suggested it.

[lynnertic]

31. That's a lie. She didn't 'reveal' she 'repeated' what she was told

because she was unconscious. We are told that her poor broken body did bear signs of rape.

She testified before the senate about a year ago that her rescue was staged.

On edit: sorry, it was staged for cameras.

[lonestarnot]

12. Women are just "C's" to him.

[Elwood P Dowd]

20. OB/GYN's aren't able to practice their love with women

if they're killed in combat. That's what ole' George would say.

:beer:

[RB TexLa]

23. It is way past time to remove that sexist restriction. And if we ever have a draft again there

should be no exemptions based on gender or race.

[undeterred]

27. I would like to see women no longer in combat

and I would also like to see men no longer in combat. This is the twentyfirst century- lets end the concept that war is a way of solving anything.

And I would like to see McCain retired from public life.

[Triana]

28. His take on equal pay: "well, women just need more education and training"

BULLSHIT.

In addition to his stance on women in the military (and whatever anyone thinks about that), but his record on OTHER women's issues SUCKS!

The man is a misogynist pig duJour.

[annabanana]

29. Monday kick. . .n/t

[lynnertic]

30. one of the biggest problems we have with women in iraq

IS THAT THEY'RE BEING RAPED BY THEIR OWN COMRADES-IN-ARMS.