Someone who knows the laws on this help me. Some cop on the a local newscast said people don't

[RB TexLa]

have a right to commit suicide. I thought you do have the right to commit suicide.

[Rick Myers]

1. I believe it IS a crime in some places, but...

You could only be prosecuted if you failed!!!

Idiots rule.

[Sydnie]

2. According to my life insurance company

I DO have that right and they still pay out at 100% if I do.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

7. Your beneficiaries will probably have to wait out the 2 year contestibility clause, though.

That's why a lot of people will off themselves by driving into a wall or something like that. Hard to prove suicidal intent in that situation. A large percentage of single vehicle drunk driving fatalities are believed to be intentional suicides.

[Sydnie]

12. As I understand it, the two year waiting period was only on the

front end of the policy. I have had the policy for about a decade at this point so there should be no waiting period for any pay out. My agent, a friend of the family as well, told me not to off myself in the first two years of the policy and after that time, I was "good to go at will". ;)

[mrreowwr_kittty]

20. I guess it depends on the policy.

I thought that if the death was "suspicious" at any time, the insurance co. has the prerogative to investigate for at least 2 years. But you might be right. I do know they usually don't bother if it's a small amount. I learned that on one of those A&E Forensic Files shows. This couple was buying $30000 policies on various relatives and murdering them. They finally got caught after they pushed their mentally disabled daughter in law off a cliff.

I also learned from those shows that you can't get away with killing someone and burning the house down. They can tell from the lungs that they didn't die in the fire.

[yellowdogintexas]

27. you are correct. Contestability on this issue is the amount of time

between the inception of the policy and the actual death event.

If the contestability period is 18 months and you take out your policy Jan 2008 and suicide before that 18 months is up, it won't pay out. OTOH if the event is 2 years later, then they payoff can't be contested.

My dad's insurances all paid out, he had them for ever

[aquart]

9. You checked?

[Sydnie]

13. It was broadly discussed when I got the policy

Very comprehensive ... covers everything as long as I go before the term ends anyway. I still have a few decades to decide .... :)

[nadinbrzezinski]

3. It is against the law in most places

and you could be prosecuted if you actually survive the attempt

In the idiocy department one DA, so legend says, actually filed charges against a suicide victim,,, murder one

[timtom]

45. In the 1967 film "Bedazzled"

The devil (Peter Cook) interrupts Stanley Moon (Dudley Moore) as he unsuccessfully attempts suicide by hanging himself:

"You know, Mr. Moon, suicide is against the law. In less enlightened times they would have hanged you for it."

[Blaze Diem]

4. I too believe the law states that suicide is a crime. But agree , only if you fail..

guess you could claim insanity as a defense.
Maybe it was the antidepressant you were taking. Certainly ways to avoid prosecution should one fail the attempt.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

5. There's not much they can do if you succeed, obviously

But if you make an attempt or a statement that you intend to commit suicide the cops (in most jurisdictions) are required to take you in for psychiatric observation. This happened to a friend of mine. Distraught over getting a DUI, he told his ex-girlfriend something that made her believe he wanted to do something desperate. Later that night, when I was hanging out with him at his house, the cops showed up and took him to a state mental facility. He had to stay there for 48 hours, even though he insisted he wasn't suicidal. Maybe they were overreacting, but suicide threats should always be taken seriously and the authorities should intervene.

[nadinbrzezinski]

6. Otherwise known as a 51-50 hold

and it is up to 72 hours.

And all threats and statements to the effect should always be treated seriously

[Mezzo]

8. In most places, you do not have the right to kill yourself, which is why

police are supposed to protect you...even from yourself.

[Mind_your_head]

10. Uhm, some people think it's MORALLY wrong to commit suicide.....

it's 'selfish' and such.....

That train of thought is beyond/higher than the money issue, wouldn't you say? :shrug:

[RB TexLa]

11. What money issue? I wasn't making any comment on the morality of suicide.

[Mind_your_head]

14. Guess I focused too much on a reference to 'an insurance claim' upthread

:shrug:

[Sydnie]

17. Some think it's immoral, true

and others see it as an option should things deteriorate to the point where quality of life were at question.

I guess it depends on which side of the razor blade you are looking at it from.


And no, I have not contemplated it. Just thought it was interesting that my insurance company didn't find it a reason to deny a claim should that happen.

[Mind_your_head]

23. WOW......

YOUR response to this, and in this manner, is very interesting and FRIGHTFULLY SHOCKING.

[Sydnie]

24. You must shock really easily then

:rofl:

[Mind_your_head]

26. Not. Really..... n/t

[Mojambo]

16. Then those people shouldn't commit suicide

There's no reason suicide should be illegal, IMHO

It's my body, and my life, and I should get to decide when it's over.

[shireen]

21. people who think suicide is selfish are

selfish.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

28. I don't think the people who do it intend to hurt the people they love, but they do.

My best friend discovered her favorite uncle, who had blown his brains out, in their family's cabin. She was 12. I'm sure he never wanted to subject her to that, but how could he control who was going to discover him?

Obviously a person has to be in an unbelievable amount of pain to want to take their own life. Many times they think others will be better off without them. But they're not thinking clearly and that's why all suicide threats should be taken seriously. It's completely

But I can understand suicides that are motivated by excruciating illnesses. I'm all for euthanasia, if that's what the person chooses.

[shireen]

40. you got it ...

many people assume all suicides are logical, and therefore call it selfish. What your best friend went through was horrifying, and i feel for her ... it's hard to understand at the tender age of 12, but i hope an adult explained to her that her favorite uncle didn't do it to hurt her, that he wasn't thinking clearly when he shot himself. In his right mind, he would have never ever consciously done anything to hurt her.

I also agree with you about euthanasia, and strongly support it. I don't like to call it suicide because the decision to end life was done logically and with careful consideration of how it would affect loved ones.

[Lorien]

30. Well, they certainly have probably never endured ongoing

severe clinical depression or a excruciating incurable illness.

[yellowdogintexas]

31. NO. They are the survivors, (family) and they are correct

it is an incredibly selfish act which leaves friends and family as walking wounded for a long long time.

it is bad enough to lose someone to death; in this situation you have to deal with the manner of the death too. Two different types of grief, two totally different recoveries, the emotional torture of wondering what caused the person to take his/her own life.

[shireen]

35. ok ... following your logic

a suicidal person should just continue living with excruciating mental torment just to keep his or her family happy?

yes, losing a loved one to suicide will hurt like hell. but who is at fault? NO ONE.

A suicidal person cannot think clearly and seek treatment to prevent taking his or her life.

Most people, who have never experienced severe depression, have NO CLUE about recognizing the subtle signs of a suicidal person.

I feel for both parties in this tragedy. But my compassion feels stronger for the person who committed suicide because he or she was in a trap, and suicide was the only escape. Until you can even try to imagine what kind of pain would drive a person to take his or her life, you have no right calling them selfish.

[yellowdogintexas]

38. I know the agony my mom my sisters and I all felt regarding the incredible

pain my father must have been in to take that step. Yet he never gave any hint he was that bad off, and this is often the case

It is some consolation to know that a person who gets to that point is possibly so out of touch with reality that they do not realize they are taking a permanent solution to a problem that is not necessarily permanent.

I understand depression, I deal with it myself.

as a survivor I still think it was selfish

[shireen]

41. i'm very sorry to hear about what happened ....

it must have hurt like hell, and i cannot imagine the pain your family went through.

You were very deeply hurt, and i think i understand why you feel he was being selfish. But I hope you also know that your dad would have never consciously done anything to intentionally hurt you and your family, that he was not in control of his actions at the moment he took his life.


:hug:

[yellowdogintexas]

47. I think I made a similar comment..about being so out of touch with reality

in one of my posts.

Thank you though..my sisters and I feel the ones he hurt the most are the ones who never knew him: the four grandchildren that were born AFTER he died, who would have adored him and who he would have spoiled rotten (if his behaviour toward the one grandchild he did know is any indication.) My mom said every time she got a new grandchild she got mad at him all over again.

sometimes this thing just rears its ugly head ....after 27 years ....and it always shocks me when it does. I participated in 2 Survivors of Suicide groups many years apart. The anger and the impression of selfishness was a constant theme in our discussion, regardless of the relationship to the person who left us, the circumstances or amount of time that had passed. I sometimes think that it is just necessary to allow us to cope.

A dear friend just lost a grandson to suicide and I think that has all my hackles up

Thank you again

[mrreowwr_kittty]

22. I think it's definitely pretty selfish when people involve others in their suicides

Years ago I read a Dear Abby or Ann Landers letter from a woman whose husband drove a truck for a living. A woman decided to kill herself by walking in front of his truck during rush hour traffic. She said it devastated her husband. He was wracked with guilt and having nightmares.

[Sydnie]

25. I agree with that statement

No need to involve anyone who doesn't want to participate ...

Can't help but think about Kurt Vonnegut's Ethical Suicide Parlors ...

[Mind_your_head]

33. Are you heavy into insurance stocks, or what?

Or is someone typing under your handle? This doesn't sound like the 'Sydnie' that I've observed for a long time now.....or were you just a 'mole'?

I'm confused by your postings now....doesn't sound like 'you'.

Peace,
M_Y_H

[Sydnie]

46. No not at all

Just in a flippant mood last night I guess. Heat must be getting to me. :)

[shireen]

36. what don't you understand about the phrase MENTAL ILLNESS?

How do you accuse a person who is unable to think clearly and logically of being selfish?

[mrreowwr_kittty]

39. Your behavior can be selfish, regardless of your mental state.

Are you suggesting the woman who wrote that letter was insufficiently compassionate to the woman who committed suicide?

BTW, mentally ill people can be incredibly manipulative and self-serving. Trust me, I have experience in my own family. Doesn't mean they aren't deserving of care and understanding, but it also doesn't mean they should be allowed to walk all over everyone around them either. There are many manifestations of mental disturbance, and the degrees can vary widely. Many mentally ill people are capable of making rational decisions (under the care of doctors) and taking responsibility for their lives and treatment regimens and should be empowered to do so to the greatest extent possible.

And I don't see any problem with asking potentially suicidal people to not throw themselves in vehicles of trucks driven by strangers, which is what the letter writer was doing.

[shireen]

43. you're oversimplifying a complex issue

yes, you are right, there are many manifestations of mental illness. But in the case of depression-related suicide, the innate will to live, that powerful survival instinct that we all have, is overcome by severely distorted thought processes. It is a completely illogical self-destructive action. In the example you cited, about how "mentally ill people can be incredibly manipulative and self-serving", that behavior is only manifested in people who want to create an outcome that is beneficial to their lives. If they were manipulative and self-serving in the context of a suicide, they have absolutely no concept of the finality of death.

You are also right in saying that "Many mentally ill people are capable of making rational decisions (under the care of doctors) and taking responsibility for their lives and treatment regimens and should be empowered to do so to the greatest extent possible." And sadly, many are incapable of it, and those are the people most vulnerable to committing suicide.

[-..__...]

15. The cop is close in his comment.

It's not so much that a person has the right to commit suicide, but the police do have a right to prevent a person from doing so... either in the form of direct intervention, detention and/or protective custody.

With regard to states that have laws making suicide illegal, it's highly doubtful that any criminal charges would be filed in a (failed), attempt, but commitment by a judge to a mental health facility against ones own will is perfectly legal and commonplace (ergo... you have no right to commit suicide).

[shireen]

29. i find these attitudes about suicide totally asinine

it seems that many people are so willing to act immediately to prevent a suicide, and will take urgent measures like having the person committed to a psychiatric facility. It's mostly a feel-good act for the person who thinks he or she has prevented a suicide, it does nothing to meaningfully help the suicidal person, and/or provide help for caregivers of the suicidal person.

If our society wants to truly help suicidal people, get them the help they really need, we need to treat mental illness like a REAL ILLNESS. That means full coverage by medical insurance, universal health care that includes mental health as "health". That means taking it seriously and forcing, by whatever means possible, our elected representatives to overhaul healthcare in this country. People should also be willing to pay additional taxes to make meaningful medical services available for all, if they care that much about it.

Until that happens, suicide prevention sentiments expressed by people like that cop are empty words.

[yellowdogintexas]

32. actually a person admitted as a hazard to himself will receive

a good deal of immediate and concerned attention. The policeman is not just giving empty words
If the person is put in hospital and evaluated and put on meds that help then that is not only a life saved it is a family not devastated

I agree completely on your points regarding the total farce that passes for mental health care in most insurance coverages by the way

[shireen]

37. i guess i'm more cynical ...

the infrastructure for mental illness treatments in this country is a joke. There is only so much a concerned policeman or dedicated hospital caregiver can do for a suicidal person. Treatment is an intensive long-term commitment. Most families can't deal with it themselves, and there isn't enough support available to them from professionals. Our health-care system truly truly stinks on so many levels.

[mmonk]

18. It's a crime but it's difficult to prosecute the guilty.

[begin_within]

19. If you succeed, it's a felony punishable by death.

Just kidding.

[yellowdogintexas]

34. you have the right to do it. However law enforcement has the obligation

to protect you from yourself if they can.

I am certain there are old laws regarding suicide, and the illegality thereof which are sort of a catch 22

many religions believe a suicide is on the express train to hell, and for centuries suicides were not buried in consecrated ground.

[Wizard777]

42. No it's a crime.

[treestar]

44. At common law it was a crime

Obviously there was no way to punish it, but "attempted suicide" could be. I believe the reason was you were depriving the King of a soldier (or a soldier-breeder). Same rationale for why dueling became illegal.

[Midwest_Doc]

48. The reason suicide is a crime

Because suicide is a crime, attempted suicide places one under the control of the judicial system and makes non-voluntary treatment easier. I'm not saying I agree, but that is the reason.

[Sundoggy]

49. You read too much Heinlein, lol n/t

Seriously, how is it possible to grow to a man's or woman's estate and not know suicide is a crime?

I think you should be very worried about what ELSE you don't know! ;)