Most complex crop circle ever discovered in British fields -- Telegraph

[Octafish]

Doubtful whether a pair of drunken RAF noncoms could figure this one out.



The circle is a coded representation of pi to the 10th significant figure

Most complex crop circle ever discovered in British fields

By Richard Savill
The Telegraph (UK)
Last Updated: 12:40PM BST 17/06/2008

The most complex, "mind-boggling" crop circle ever to be seen in Britain has been discovered in a barley field in Wiltshire.

The circle is a coded representation of pi to the 10th significant figure
The formation, measuring 150ft in diameter, is apparently a coded image representing the first 10 digits, 3.141592654, of pi.

It is has appeared in a field near Barbury Castle, an iron-age hill fort above Wroughton, Wilts, and has been described by astrophysicists as "mind-boggling".

Michael Reed, an astrophysicist, said: "The tenth digit has even been correctly rounded up. The little dot near the centre is the decimal point.

Article continuesadvertisement
"The code is based on 10 angular segments with the radial jumps being the indicator of each segment.

"Starting at the centre and counting the number of one-tenth segments in each section contained by the change in radius clearly shows the values of the first 10 digits in the value of pi."

CONTINUED...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/howaboutthat/2144652/Most-complex-crop-circle-ever-discovered-in-British-fields.html

These things are fascinating. Any ideas?

[SteppingRazor]

1. A couple of drunks, maybe not. But these guys?

http://www.circlemakers.org/

Sure.

[Occam Bandage]

6. Don't be silly. It's absolutely impossible for a group of dedicated, intelligent

artists to mock up a design on a computer, and then enact it.

[Octafish]

8. Are they claiming to make those?

From what I understand, theirs break the stalks. The unexplained ones are bent.

[Occam Bandage]

10. ...that is silly.

"It is impossible for *humans* to bend crops!"

[Octafish]

53. Putting quote marks around your words still makes them yours.

What I referred to: One of the main difference between known man-made crop circles and origin unknown ones are the bending versus broken stalks.



I asked if the people at circlemakersexplained.com were claiming to have made the examples in their photos.

[Occam Bandage]

55. You are saying that nobody has been known to bend stalks?

[seemslikeadream]

62. bend stalks without ANY damage to them and they continue to grow

[Occam Bandage]

66. Yes. Are you saying that nobody has ever bent wheat? Because I can go out and do that right now.

[seemslikeadream]

72. that isn't what I said at all

[Occam Bandage]

76. So, given that people can clearly bend wheat, what's your case?

[seemslikeadream]

78. You must not know anything about the subject so you really shouldn't be discussing it

[Occam Bandage]

81. So, prove us wrong. Prove that crop circles could not be made by humans.

[seemslikeadream]

82. some are made by humans others are not

Crop circles are formations found in fields of wheat, barley, or other crops. Wheat stalks bend over and still continue to grow. Scientists have discovered that this could have been done by intense heat applied for a split second. People who have tried to fake crop circles can only break the wheat by crushing it with planks of wood.

[Occam Bandage]

85. So your evidence that humans cannot make crop circles is "others are not."

Well, that's convincing.

[Mutley]

191. Look, you are repeatedly ignoring his arguement for crop circles.

He's said over and over again what his argument is, and you just ignore it. Address this part:

"Crop circles are formations found in fields of wheat, barley, or other crops. Wheat stalks bend over and still continue to grow. Scientists have discovered that this could have been done by intense heat applied for a split second. People who have tried to fake crop circles can only break the wheat by crushing it with planks of wood."

And I am someone who doesn't believe aliens create crop circles. It's just a little maddening the way you're arguing with this guy.

[anigbrowl]

194. It's already been pointed out that breaking/cruching wheat with planks isn't the only way

Numerous other and non-destructive methods have been deployed in the creation of circles, but this is ignored. There's no evidence presented that it must be the result of 'intense heat applied for a split second'. If the poster were as convinced of this idea as you suggest, s/he would have followed it up by now instead of making these endless hit'n'run posts.

[Echo In Light]

271. "you are repeatedly ignoring his argument" - that's exactly the point

[JuniperLea]

286. The Hidden Hand!

GAWD I love everything Wino has ever done. Good to see a fan here:)

[Echo In Light]

302. Hell yeah! I even have old Saint Vitus tattoos

I'd have to cite Spirit Caravan as my top Wino-band pick. Luckily I caught them a few times, once on their own, another w/Place of Skulls.

[DS1]

284. Which scientists?

I want names, or a published article.

[seemslikeadream]

305. Because I have no respect for him?

How's that for an excuse?

on edit:

That was before this post now all is right with the world

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=3478797&mesg_id=3481861

[Greyskye]

306. ..

Glad you picked up on that. Glad I figured it out too. :rofl:

:hi:

[Greyskye]

123. If not humans, then....?

I'm sorry if I missed it in this thread, but who or what are the potential alternatives to humans that you're referring to?

[Schema Thing]

129. lol, wtf else is there but humans?

did I miss some big discovery?

[Marr]

150. That's just not true.

If it's dry, you might break more, sure. It's easy to bend wheat. I've specifically seen a person do this with a plank of wood, just bending the wheat as they went.

[greyl]

231. You should really start crediting your posts to their original authors.

Maybe even give a link, like a good journalist would.
The occasions are really adding up, SLAD.

www.cybercilious.com/vimana/articles/crop.htm

[anigbrowl]

84. LOL - you should talk

You haven't presented any evidence yet, but you say other people don't know what they're talking about. Right.

[seemslikeadream]

89. You present me with evidence that all these crop circles were made by humans

Where are all the arrests of people trespassing

[Occam Bandage]

94. Sure. They have websites and everything.

http://www.circlemakers.org/
http://science.howstuffworks.com/crop-circle5.htm
http://www.amtsgym-sdbg.dk/as/crop/ufofake.HTM

[Octafish]

239. Why the righteous indignation?

What is it about even thinking about crop circles, let alone different from what you believe, make you so angry?

Please, it's only a picture.

[Occam Bandage]

250. I think you're projecting just a wee bit much.

"Sure, they have websites and everything" is not exactly unbridled rage.

[Echo In Light]

272. Have you ever checked out the DU's 9/11 "dungeon?" Righteous indignation...

...over anything conspiratorial is what some of these posters thrive on...big time.

[Name removed]

97. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[girl gone mad]

199. That's just what you want to believe.

It has no basis in science.

[Octafish]

245. I tried following what the thing's design is doing...

... Starting at the center: A line goes out a short ways and then makes a right turn and begins to spiral out. At various points around the circumference of the spiral, another little line goes out and enlarges the spiral. Apparently, each spot has a mathematical significance. Here's another one, not like the other one:



I wish I were smart enough to understand it all. I could and would explain this better. All I can really say about it is that it's beautiful. Perhaps that's its real story.

[Book Lover]

2. Yes

Some smart people figured out how to display this representation of pi. Then they got out the rope and boards and made it.

[seemslikeadream]

12. you are sorely mistaken

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lOlwyXkick4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-gn7xmw6n4I

[anigbrowl]

17. Love your reasoning /nt

[seemslikeadream]

20. That's just my initial reaction

I'll be back with more way more

[anigbrowl]

24. Gee, I'm impressed. /nt

[seemslikeadream]

26. Hey just give me a fucking minute here buddy

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

35. Yeah, they show that one in the video I posted.

"how to make a crop circle."

[pt22]

86. How to make a Venetian blind

poke his eyes out

:rofl:

[seemslikeadream]

27. and I'm actually not out to impress you any way

[Greyskye]

188. In that, you've succeeded beyond your wildest dreams!

[seemslikeadream]

34. ............

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7498691920585854999&q=crop+circles&ei=a35ZSOW6FaDk4AKM-9CgDw&hl=en





http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7441333249846634309&q=crop+circles&ei=xX5ZSPjfDZfA4AK83cChDw&hl=en

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

38. Aliens left these markings outside my house...

I know some folks say that people can make these markings too. But with such intricate detail? And in the middle of the night? Yeah, right.

[seemslikeadream]

43. You can not compare the two and you know that

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

46. Why not?

What's the big difference?

[seemslikeadream]

50. If you can't see a difference

then you are a lost cause and I will no longer respond to you bye

[anigbrowl]

60. It's just a different style of art, is all

I could scan and upload a bunch of old photos from my rave days showing all kinds of cool psychedelic art that we used to hang on the wall at psychedelic trance parties because it looked good on acid, but the actual painting was done by stoned hippies with flourescent paints that we bought in a shop and a book of cool geometric patterns to help draw them on the fabric.

Frankly, I'm a lot more impressed by the behavior you get from a few simple equations than the idea of aliens leaving graffiti in our food.

[seemslikeadream]

63. Where in the hell did you EVER see me post that aliens are making these?

[anigbrowl]

87. Well obviously you think some higher intelligence is making them

aliens, earth spirits, whatever you want to call it.

[seemslikeadream]

91. You have no clue as to what I believe is making these circles

and that's your problem

[Book Lover]

99. Then share your thoughts with us, please (nm)

[anigbrowl]

100. Well, maybe you'll eventually get around to telling us

Of course you could have done that in your first message but that would have meant getting your thoughts in order.

[seemslikeadream]

102. No sir or madam you have been jumping to conclusions from the very beginning

THAT'S YOUR PROBLEM

[anigbrowl]

126. I'm not the one jumping in to tell people they're wrong with no explanation.

To be honest, it seems sort of a rude way to start a conversation, compared to 'i disagree, because...'

[Greyskye]

140. Here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x3478797#3479297
"some are made by humans others are not"

Or at least you contend that they are not made by humans. What's left?

a) Aliens
b) Animals
c) Insects
d) Fish with SCAWBA (Self Contained Above Water Breathing Apparatus) gear
e) Self aware mobile computer with a wicked sense of humor
f) 'Unexplained phenomenon'
f1-n) I suppose that the following would fall into this category: magic, spiritual forces, ghosts, god consciousness, crystal power, etc.

So if it's not humans that are making them, who or what is? Something on that list? Something else? :shrug:

[seemslikeadream]

144. nope sorry try again

[Greyskye]

149. It's not a guessing game

At this point it's quite apparent that you enjoy trolling for reactions.

Have a nice life. Oh yeah, don't forget your door prize on your way out:

[seemslikeadream]

158. whatever

[Greyskye]

160. Ditto.

[seemslikeadream]

164. .........

[Greyskye]

167. She's melting!

[seemslikeadream]

172. It would take way more than you

[Greyskye]

174. Crop circles are created with psychedelic brain power!

Yeah, that's the ticket! I guess that's as good as the other explanations you've suggested, then quickly backed away from. :eyes:



Look, I just made a crop circle near Kent!

[anigbrowl]

176. I miss acid, but not most of the acidheads.

All of them seemed to have the same Einstein poster with 'imagination is more important than knowledge' printed on he bottom, but almost none of them have read any of his scientific work. Sad.

[seemslikeadream]

181. If it wasn't for those "acid" heads you wouldn't be here right now

[anigbrowl]

182. And if I wait long enough maybe you'll tell me what you meant by that

But I'm not holding my breath.

[Greyskye]

200. One interpretation is she just implied that you are the product of...

...psychedelic induced love between your parents.

But I'm sure that the poster in question would never condescend to such a base and unfounded personal attack.

[anigbrowl]

205. I wondered about that, but I decide she meant the inventors of the internet got high on the side

We'll probably never know. In times to come we'll wonder if we were being addressed by a higher intelligence, and if so why it seemed to have such difficulty with expressing its thoughts clearly.

[seemslikeadream]

219. HERE YA GO SWEETIE~~~~~~~~~

http://www.wired.com/science/discoveries/news/2006/01/70015?currentPage=all


BASEL, Switzerland -- When Kevin Herbert has a particularly intractable programming problem, or finds himself pondering a big career decision, he deploys a powerful mind expanding tool -- LSD-25.

"It must be changing something about the internal communication in my brain. Whatever my inner process is that lets me solve problems, it works differently, or maybe different parts of my brain are used, " said Herbert, 42, an early employee of Cisco Systems who says he solved his toughest technical problems while tripping to drum solos by the Grateful Dead -- who were among the many artists inspired by LSD.

"When I'm on LSD and hearing something that's pure rhythm, it takes me to another world and into anther brain state where I've stopped thinking and started knowing," said Herbert who intervened to ban drug testing of technologists at Cisco Systems.

Herbert, who lives in Santa Cruz, California, joined 2,000 researchers, scientists, artists and historians gathered here over the weekend to celebrate the 100th birthday of Albert Hofmann, the Swiss chemist who discovered LSD here in 1938. The centenarian received a congratulatory birthday letter from the Swiss president, roses and a spontaneous kiss from a young woman in the crowd

[anigbrowl]

225. ....and?

I don't really need an ad for LSD, as I'm quite the fan already. Are you implying Cisco created the Internet or something?

[seemslikeadream]

226. double helical structure of DNA

Reading it's a good thing

[anigbrowl]

258. Hmm...that was around for a good long time before Francis Crick discovered it

I think you're putting the cart before the horse here. Discovering something after you've had an LSD-assisted insight doesn't mean the original phenomenon was caused by LSD. It's an interesting molecule but it doesn't actually interact with your DNA directly, you know.

[seemslikeadream]

228. Are you using a mouse? Come on now don't lie

The gathering included a discussion of how early computer pioneers used LSD for inspiration. Douglas Englebart, the inventor of the mouse, Myron Stolaroff, a former Ampex engineer and LSD researcher who was attending the symposium, and Apple-cofounder Steve Jobs were among them. In the 2005 book What the Dormouse Said, New York Times reporter John Markoff quotes Jobs describing his LSD experience as "one of the two or three most important things he has done in his life."



http://www.wired.com/science/discoveries/news/2006/01/70015?currentPage=all

[seemslikeadream]

230. you do have some of that DNA stuff don't you?

[seemslikeadream]

179. There is a simple reason for my line of responses

too bad you just don't get it

[anigbrowl]

183. Too bad you just can't/won't articulate it. /nt

[Greyskye]

185. Neither does anyone else, evidently.

But I'm happy for you that being mysterious and enigmatic gets you off.

I've known quite a few teenagers who went through that phase as well.

[seemslikeadream]

147. ever see this video?

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3248021895531141379&q=sound+sand&ei=UJtZSPTqBoHA4AKI7-CvDw&hl=en

[Greyskye]

157. THAT'S your explanation?

:rofl:

Harmonic sound waves?

1) Wheat/barley etc. don't behave in the same way as sand.
2) You can only get symmetrical patterns with this technique. There is no way in hell that the photo in the OP could have been done this way. :eyes:
3) Even the people interviewed in the vids you posted don't talk about any sound - only faint lights and 'feeling like they were being taunted by a childlike presence'. Whatever.

[seemslikeadream]

161. no stop jumping to conclusions

[anigbrowl]

168. Well, what IS your thesis? Do you have one?

You keep saying people are jumping to conclusions but you seem unwilling to go on the record and say what you think is the cause. If you introduce some sort of natural phenomenon (like vibrational modes of a plate, as in the video above) then people are going to assume that you are positing that as the cause, or at least a partial cause, since you posted it in response to a question.

If you don't have any kind of specific thesis then you're just going around in circles.

[Greyskye]

169. As you refuse to give a straight answer...

...you leave us no alternatives.

You just love yanking peoples chains. Don't get upset when people yank back. :hi:

[anigbrowl]

163. Yes. They're called Chladni plates

named after a German scientist who was the father of acoustic visualization. The patterns are called vibrational modes of the plate. You can get similar patterns by projecting the output of an oscilloscope into phase space. This is the basis of a lot of screensavers that react to music.

[seemslikeadream]

154. or this

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5336247236105371025&q=sound+sand&ei=epxZSKfxGo2g4ALZufClDw&hl=en

[Greyskye]

162. So explain non-symmetrical patterns using harmonic resonance techniques.

I'll be waiting...

[eowyn_of_rohan]

277. SLAD - This is fascinating

Sound phenomenon... reminds me of synesthetic experiences I have had. All is one. verrrrry cool, and thanks for posting this link.
Water waves...Sound waves...Color waves...Other waves?

[skygazer]

178. I pick Fish!!

:bounce:

Just cos I like fish. :)

[reflection]

293. Funniest. Response. Ever.

"SCAWBA"

:rofl:

[sniffa]

186. Nice, a fellow (former) raver

:hi:

[anigbrowl]

196. W00t! I still like the music a lot.

[sniffa]

203. One of my favorites

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K9a0WnL6tqg

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

If you can't come up with a valid reason why these two forms of grafitto are different...

then it's probably because you haven't got one.

[seemslikeadream]

70. you try making this in the same time it take to spray paint

[Occam Bandage]

75. That would pretty clearly take at least a few dozen people an entire night.

Well, I'm convinced. No way that you could get twenty people to work on a project. No sir.

[roguevalley]

88. so beautiful.

[gulfcoastliberal]

244. Some folks have a vested interest in making sure mysteries like these crop circles have a mundane

explanation.

I know the CIA policy regarding UFOs, etc is ridicule aimed at shutting people up for fear of being dismissed as crazies.

[QueenOfCalifornia]

67. You are

making my point for me.

And I believe in alien visitors!!!!:rofl:

crop circles are a joke. (in more ways than one.)

[QueenOfCalifornia]

68. Dupe

dee-doop...
diddy-doop, diddy, doop.

[kestrel91316]

61. That second pic of yours with the graduated circles in curves

has always disturbed me. Who has that much TIME on their hands to get it all right? With no mistakes.

Remember, there isn't really any good way to undo the knocked-down crops if you mess up.

I just find myself wondering about alternate realities and other dimensions when I see this stuff......

[Occam Bandage]

you see, there's this stuff called "paper." You can write on it.

You can then plan out how to do things.

[seemslikeadream]

73. bullshit

[Occam Bandage]

79. No, paper exists. I've used it many times before.

There's this extra-special stuff called "graphing paper." This lets you plot out exact correspondences between real-world places.

[anigbrowl]

96. Me too. I also have this thing called a computer and one called a printer. truly magical.

Would you believe I can use it to study all sots of wondrous mathematical constructs. Or design a whole building and then print out the plans in a format that a bunch of builders could use.

[seemslikeadream]

101. With all the damage these "people" have done you'd think the farmers would have someone arrrested

[Occam Bandage]

108. Most do it at night. It's graffiti. Similar to urban graffiti artists,

they have learned that if you make graffiti at night, you will not be arrested for it.

[anigbrowl]

110. Well, that actually happens you know

Matthew Williams is the best-known arrestee. Or here's a recent story about a Candian farmer who was pranked by his friend and is pissed off about it.
http://www.canada.com/topics/news/national/story.html?id=c363e5a1-ce48-488b-bd21-9f3943e2d952&k=60192

[seemslikeadream]

112. Where's the picture

[anigbrowl]

118. Here you go

http://centroufologicotaranto.blogspot.com/2007/09/ondata-di-crop-circles-in-canada.html

Picture might not appear due to blogspot link manager.

[seemslikeadream]

125. Oh geee that is REALLY complicated

[anigbrowl]

138. So? I just grabbed the most recent news headline. You want more complex? Here:

http://www.circlemakers.org/exhibit_a.html In fact here's a whole stack of them. I don't think that just become something is complex it's evidence of any paranormal origin...in fact, that's the basic flaw of creationism.

[seemslikeadream]

142. Maybe I missed it where is it proven who made that circle

[anigbrowl]

155. I gave you their website address for heaven's sake

Here's the specific article, with details of how and why they made it. They did so for the BBC.
http://www.circlemakers.org/beeb.html

And there are lots and lots of other examples of made-to-order crop circles on their website, some of which are as simple as corporate logos, others which are very complex.

[seemslikeadream]

130. THAT ONE IS DEFINETLY DONE VERY BADLY BY A PRANGSTER

WE AGREE ON THAT

[Greyskye]

171. DAMN THOSE PRANGSTERS!

THEY KEEP STEALING MY PRANGS!

[baby_mouse]

300. Greatest comback pic EVAH.

I fanboy you with oozings of electric fan.

[kestrel91316]

180. I guess my issue isn't with planning. It's more with execution.

Where does one find humans COMPETENT to do this????

The average American couldn't pull it off in a month of Sundays. Probably involves math and geometry and ACTUAL PHYSICAL WORK.

[pt22]

90. Those were obviously done by unsymmetrical aliens.

No mirrors on their planet. :silly:

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

29. Wow, that's almost as exciting as this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=niH9ClOse3M

[seemslikeadream]

31. earliest reports was in Lyon in 815AD

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/871607.stm

One of the earliest reports was in Lyon in 815AD, and a late 16th Century woodcut depicts the devil mowing a field into patterns.


http://www.world-mysteries.com/sci_14.htm

The most well known positive depiction of a crop circle is found in a woodcut made in 1678 with the title 'Strange News out of Hartford-shire’.
It depicts a devil-like creature cutting out a pattern in a crop with a scythe.
The woodcut has text, which told of a greedy farmer, who, having refused to pay a mower a reasonable rate for reaping his oats, swore that he would rather have the Devil do the work. The very following morning, the farmer awoke to find his crop had been harvested, but done so in such an amazing manner, with rounded circles of incredible exactness that no human could have done the same within the period and darkness of one night. The farmer was so afraid that he could not enter the field to collect his harvest.


http://www.lovely.clara.net/crop_circles_early.html
Suddenly, I heard a noise. It seemed as if something pushed down the wheat. That night the air was completely still. I looked around. The moon had just appeared, shining brightly. In front of my eyes I could see a great imprint taking shape. The wheat was forced down in a clockwise direction." -Bryce Bond and Arthur Shuttlewood, first modern crop circles witnesses, Warminster, night of August 12, 1972


http://paranormal.about.com/library/weekly/aa021802b.htm
• The first crop circle in the US was reported in 1964.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

33. A woodcut of the devil reaping wheat is not evidence of crop circles.

You're probably confusing that with this photographic evidence of the Loch Ness monster:

[seemslikeadream]

36. Like I said before GIVE ME A FUCKING MINUTE

I'LL BE BACK

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

39. Give you a minute to do what?

What, exactly, are you trying to do?

[seemslikeadream]

48. Looking through the vast amount of stuff I've collected

it will take a few minutes

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

49. What, exactly, are you looking for?

An extra super duper crop circle that couldn't be made by people?

[Greyskye]

195. A minute to do some...

...fucking? :shrug:

[anigbrowl]

52. Why don't you just try putting your stuff together before you post?

It'd be more constructive if you put your links and images etc. together first and posted them all at once instead of doing repeated drive-by postings - it's not like the forum will disappear if you don't post fast enough.

So, you posted a video and it shows lots of pretty crop circles. OK, so crop circles are pretty. I like them too. None of that means aliens are leaving graffiti in our food.

Maybe you should check your sources better. I see other videos online showing lights and so on, but in most cases a few minutes analysis usually shows such videos to be fake, either capturing natural phenomena or created by tricksters. I work in low-budget film and it's not that hard to create special effects on the cheap, especially if it's going to be seen on some grainy little handycam video.

[seemslikeadream]

59. I'll post anyway I damn well want to

any of the vids I posted faked?

[anigbrowl]

69. Yes, they probably are fake

It isn't that hard, you know. Want lights in the sky? Get some helium balloons, attach 2 or three of them to chinese lanterns (lightweight paper lanterns design to hold a tea candle), put them on a long fishing line in a moderate wind, they'll whip about but good. If you're filming it at night from 200 feet away with a little camcorder it'll look like something is flying around all right. You don't even need to use after effects.

[seemslikeadream]

77. please don't change the subject we're talking about crop circles

not aliens or space ships or balloons

[anigbrowl]

92. Well you asked if they were faked

and I said they probably were, and suggested one possible method of fakery (if, for example, you wanted a video showing lights in the sky). The circles obviously exist, but that doesn't mean they couldn't be made by people. Do you even have a point here?

[seemslikeadream]

95. excuse me where did I ask you that

sorry but I have lost track since I am discussing this with 5 other people

[anigbrowl]

120. #59: 'any of the vids I posted faked?' /nt

[seemslikeadream]

131. h that was because you accused my vids of being faked

[Occam Bandage]

45. Laughter occurred.

Thank you much, sir.

[lovuian]

177. this is a cool one

[trusty elf]

262. I'm kinda partial to this one

[trotsky]

276. LMAO

A before and after picture. On YouTube! ZOMG, that's the most convincing evidence I've ever seen!

[Octafish]

13. Here's how the smart person who understood the pi thing got involved...

http://www.cropcircleconnector.com/2008/barbury/barbury2008a.html

[pnorman]

57. I was just now listening to "The Joy of Pi" in Audible.com format, when I stopped to check DU!

Howzat for coincidence? Here's a more detailed of that (Pi) crop circle: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1027178/Easy-pi-Astrophysicist-solves-riddle-Britains-complex-crop-circle.html

pnorman

[Octafish]

93. Thanks for the pic, pnorman! Ever hear Jacques Vallee's concept of an "Associative Universe"?

Dr. Jacques Vallee says we live in an "Associative Universe," one in which our minds act as a sort of rudder, guiding us more often to the visualized destination. He describes it in detail in "Messengers of Deception," a study of UFO cults and people who manipulate followers and what it means to the greater society as a whole.

http://www.fiu.edu/~mizrachs/UFO-info-age.html

Perhaps important thoughts are like the clouds moving across the clear blue sky of the Universal Mind. We both happened to some aspect of the same one, pi.

[gkhouston]

3. Thesis avoidance behavior? n/t

[sakura]

212. Yep. Mine was solitaire.

Not anywhere near as creative, but it got the job done.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

4. A couple of smart ass stundents who drew out plans, then got drunk.

:shrug:

[anigbrowl]

19. I would have thought the thing to do would be to make the circle and get drunk afterwards

It is possible to do fun things for the hell of it without being drunk first.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

25. It's possible.

But it's more fun to get drunk first.

Or high then drunk.

[Selatius]

5. Could it be the work of several mathematically knowledgeable individuals? nt

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

7. no, it's got to be aliens.

Aliens are unsure is we understand the value of pi to ten places, so they want to tell us, but they've got to flatten out grass instead of just coming out and telling us.

That makes much more sense when you think about it.

[Hissyspit]

16. We know it's not aliens, because

M. Night Shyamalan made a cruddy movement that said it was, so it has to be people.

"Signs." Ugh. One of my most hated movies ever. Sooo derivative.

[tridim]

32. Signs is the worst movie I've ever seen in a theater.

But I hear his latest film is even worse.

[Hissyspit]

80. He makes glorified episodes of mediocre TV shows.

That's one reason it seemed bad in a theatre.

[TommyO]

11. No, it had to be aliens

Humans aren't smart enough to engineer something this complex and actually execute the plans.

[Occam Bandage]

14. We figured out how to launch men to the Moon a half-century ago.

Pressing down plants is beyond our mental capacity.

[TommyO]

301. Absolutely!

Of course, I should have included :sarcasm:, but I figured it was obvious.

[NashVegas]

9. And People Think Farmers Are Uneducated Oafs

[anigbrowl]

15. Math geeks

Not all lovers of maths and science are averse to life outdoors. There's plenty of universities within a few hours' drive, and you can find likely candidate fields using Google Earth. Making a crop circle isn't all that hard. Nor does it hurt that it was a full moon last night, which would make it a lot easier for people to see what they're doing without needing electric lights.

[Cleita]

18. Oh c'mon "Battlestar Gallactica" landed on earth last week. It must be them.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=210&topic_id=22809&mesg_id=22809

[Algorem]

21. you can only see pi in the sky.

from the sky.something.

[Cleita]

23. LOL!

:rofl:

[IDemo]

117. wrong spot..

[whatchamacallit]

22. Was the decimal point added for us earthlings?

Cuz I seriously doubt the aliens just happen to separate whole and fractional numbers like we do. The hoaxers probably should have left that out.

[eppur_se_muova]

51. Actually, it's not pi, it's some really significant number that's beyond our understanding.

But you have to read it in base 13 before you can even realize that.

[Terry in Austin]

28. College kids

with too much, um, "study aid" left over after exams -- see, they got the 2 and the 6 transposed!

Whatever or whoever, though, still remarkable stuff.

[tridim]

30. Well, pi is evident the second you attach a rope at the center of the circle and make 1/2 revolution

I bet all the other measurements were based on that.

[Ian David]

37. It is beyond stupid not to know these things are man-made.

And I am not going to the effort yet again of having that argument... yet again.

I simply want to go on-record.

[Octafish]

240. Everyone's entitled to an opinion.

I don't know who made them. Or how.

What's worse, I can only guess at what they mean.

[Ian David]

269. They mean, "People who don't know this was made by other human beings are idiots." n/t

[NNN0LHI]

40. Yea thats some definitive evidence of visitation by extraterrestrials alright

Everyone knows that only extraterrestrials have the ability to flatten down wheat growing in a farm field.

:crazy:

Don

[Octafish]

44. Where did I say anything about extraterrestrials, NN0LHI?

Although, that is a possibility, somewhat less likely than a human explanation.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

47. You kinda sorta implied it...

when you were fascinated by it and doubted humans pulled it off.

[Octafish]

54. No. You implied it above. I said a pair of drunken RAF noncoms couldn't figure this one out.

Big difference between what I wrote and what you are implying I said.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

56. So were you implying maybe two drunken Army noncoms did it?

C'mon. You couldn't explain it. Thought maybe aliens did it. Now you feel embarassed.

Deservedly.

[Occam Bandage]

58. However, a group of college students could easily figure this one out.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

71. hell...i am not that bright and I get it..

so someone immersed in math would be able to snap this out in a minute or two...designwise...

sP

[mudesi]

41. Pi? I guess that confirms it's NOT aliens

The probability of an extra terrestrial intelligence representing numbers in the same base 10 system as us is virtually zero.

[pt22]

98. It's not from aliens but the number system base has no bearing on

the proportionality of the arc lengths. They are the same for any base. ;-)

[muriel_volestrangler]

145. It's a message to us that they've realised we have 10 fingers

They'd been carefully studying the Simpsons episodes they'd picked up as they were beamed into space, and had been sure we had 4 digits on each hand, so must use an octal numbering system. But when they kept capturing lonely people on rural roads at night, and found they hand an extra finger on each hand, they got confused (an attempt to find out what to do with the extra finger was responsible for all those <ahem> probes). But after many samples of us, they've finally worked out it's 10 fingers and decimal, so this was their message to us to say "we understand now!".

[shireen]

42. sure, they're aliens

with way too much time on their hands.

wish they'd do something more constructive and useful for earthlings, like brain surgery on dubya so he thinks he's ralph nader.

[pt22]

64. Them aliens are some smart lil' buggers, they know Pi to 9 decimal places!

:toast: to the LGM

[melody]

65. Hey, stop thinking for yourself!

We'll have none of that in here.

The scientists will tell you what to believe in science and the religious will tell you what to believe in religion.
Independent thinking is often dangerous! LOL

Actually, I'm 75% people (a bunch of skeptics who like to turn all unknowns quickly into unquestionable fraud through
replication) did this. There are all manner of circle makers now, some with very complex systems. It has also been
shown that it's fairly easy to make them.

But we don't know for certain about anything. Because that's the likely explanation doesn't make it the only one.
In order to continue to think, we have to be open to considering all possibilities.

[Pithlet]

275. I blame those stupid cable shows.

You see them crop up (ha, really, no pun intended there) from time to time on Discovery or TLC. I've seen quite a few of the talking points parroted on some of the posts in this thread. But the shows don't offer an accurate view of the opposing scientific viewpoint. Every single one of the talking points that people are spewing in this thread about how no one has ever been caught, or the bent stalks couldn't possibly have been bent by any other means but a quick blast of high energy, yadda yadda, they've all been debunked. These shows rarely devote much time to that end of it, because I guess it would spoil the fun. Those shows are really only meant for entertainment, so I don't get too worked up about them. I just wish they'd be less sloppy, because free thinking is easier with more information available to you. Being a free thinker doesn't do much good if you're basing that free thought on limited information. The state of science education in this country is abysmal. Believe me. Religion and mysticism is in no danger right now.

I'm all for considering all the possibilities. That doesn't mean jumping to conclusions in the face of overwhelming evidence. And the evidence is indeed overwhelming that it is humans that are making crop circles. If evidence to the contrary ever comes up, I'll change my mind. That is not being close minded.

[melody]

294. It's a variety of things

If the scientific mainstream wasn't so averse to a multi-model approach, we wouldn't have people leaping to fairy folk ideas.

In reality, no one knows for sure what the hell is going on. It could be anything. There's no command that we must decide on ONE
answer as absolute orthodoxy and demand everyone to believe it absolutely. I think it's okay to question and come up with other
ideas without the scientific dads sticking their heads in and telling everyone to shut up.

The majority of the evidence definitely indicates a very prosaic, everyday cause of crop circles (people make them) however no one
can be certain about anything. I leave open the possibility that there might be something more. I do not think this is a
mechanical, causal world at its base. I think the evidence speaks against that.

[Crunchy Frog]

74. A couple of drunken math geeks?

:shrug:

[pt22]

83. I like

Ω-made-Π


:D

[starroute]

103. There are too many mysteries to just be pranksters

Circles appear overnight. Or they appear in the middle of the day in locations that can be seen from major highways. Nobody has ever been caught in the act of making one.

Most of the circles involve complex geometrical or mathematical relationships, and though there are occasional small glitches in the patterns or the execution, on the whole they are done with an astonishing level of precision -- the sort of thing that would be extraordinarily difficult to maintain when working at ground level over a scale of more than 100 feet.

The stalks that are bent over frequently seem almost to have been melted and then curved downwards. They are not broken or even bent sharply and often are able to resume growing.

There are never any signs of work having been accidentally trampled in the course of adding new sections. Stalks are laid down smoothly, generally in circular waves, sometimes with complex interweavings, and often with a small knot of stalks left standing at the center of each circle.

And no, I don't think it's aliens. But I do think a fairly high level of technology has to be involved, probably involving heat or radiation, and that it is likely being done from the air. Many circles every year -- perhaps a majority -- are easily identifiable as fakes, produced as stunts or advertising gimmicks, and the difference in quality is readily apparent.

If pressed for a hypothesis, I would guess military black budget technology being appropriated by occult tricksters in a form of ontological guerrilla warfare. But really I have no more clue than the next person.

[The Stranger]

106. "Ontological Guerilla Warfare" -- holy shit, fucking great post.

[Occam Bandage]

109. "Nobody has ever been caught in the act of making one."

http://www.circlemakers.org/

[AntiFascist]

159. My thoughts as well!

Is there any correlation between the onset of the appearance of the more sophisticated crop circles and evolving SDI ("Star Wars") technology?

[galledgoblin]

104. THAT POOR BARLEY

it could have made such beautiful beer if it lived long enough :cry:

[seemslikeadream]

107. That's the thing it was still ALIVE after the circle was made

[pt22]

111. Er, how do you know that?

??

[galledgoblin]

114. even if it survives

it'll never get a chance to live it's lifelong dream now. :cry:

[anigbrowl]

122. Why do you find this so remarkable?

If you use a roller instead of a board and go at moderate speed it's not so difficult to achieve, especially if the ground is damp.

[muriel_volestrangler]

151. Have no fear

Such barley is a vital ingredient in:

http://www.hopback.co.uk/real-ale-online/index.php?cPath=2

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

105. Why Would That Be Harder Than Any Of The Others, Once Mapped Out?

I see nothing complex about it whatsoever. :shrug:

[Swamp Rat]

113. Where any barley stalks harmed in the making of this thread?

:D :hi:

[HughMoran]

115. I love those things

They are so cool. I wonder who's messing with us?

[seemslikeadream]

128. I don't know but I do know who is messin' with bush

[HughMoran]

132. Lol! Methinks McClingy is going to regret that little hug

He's too lazy to do a reach-around :rofl:

[seemslikeadream]

133. and his other best bud

[HughMoran]

135. McLIEberman - ewwww, he makes me want to vomit

:puke:

Do I ever I hate him.

[MinneapolisMatt]

116. Sure is pretty...

...no matter who did it.

xoxox M

[IDemo]

119. Don't they know that pi r squared?

Or is it 'cake r squared but pi r round'?

[doublethink]

121. Look guys there is so much info on DU ..... to digest ......

lately I've only been interested in getting my dogs onto a holistic diet. So I've been lurking the 'Pet Forum' here .... no more wheat, corn, preservatives diet for the little guys. More of a 'raw' diet and detoxing their systems. What does this have to do with crop circles ??? Probably just the thought of keeping your pets out of the corn, wheat fields I guess. ;)


Anyway cool post ..... intriguing to say the least. peace.

[housewolf]

124. What a gorgeous crop circle!

Thanks for posting! I haven't seen any pictures this year, so am happy to see this one.

[seemslikeadream]

127. Would you like to see my vid?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WBl9j1iV9p8

[LaurenG]

134. That is a beautiful video.

:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

[BeHereNow]

136. Oh SLAD!!! Crow on the Cradle is BEAUTIFUL!!! One of my favorite songs...

You are so talented.
I hope we get to meet in person some day.
BHN

[burythehatchet]

137. I used to do a fair amount of woodworking, and one of the pieces of machinery

that I used was a CNC router. For those who don't know a CNC machine is a programmable three dimension wood carving router. I watched an experienced operator program at an incredible level of detail and watched the machine crank out perfect representations.

That's the first explanation that comes to mind, a programmed mobile mower.

[BeHereNow]

139. But they aren't mowed; they are bent.

Just saying.

Personally, I think the Kogi of Colombia are responsible.
http://www.taironatrust.org

Most people interpret the world in such a limited
dimension that it is impossible for them to imagine
that there are levels of existence outside of what
they perceive with limited senses.

The Kogi are probably the most spiritually advanced
humans on the planet.
They have been trying to warn us about the death
of the mother for a long time.
And yes, they claim to have the ability to travel
outside of their bodies and that they have
been doing so for years in the effort to find
souls who are willing to learn and help them teach others
in order to save the planet.
BHN

[JuniperLea]

288. Thanks for posting this...

I've bookmarked the site.

People who insist on putting everything in the world into tiny little boxes scare the hell out of me. I think the truth is, they are scared as hell to allow their minds to wander and think outside the little tiny boxes. The unknown is very scary for a lot of people. For me, the unknown is the brass ring, the prize in the Cracker Jack, the fruit at the bottom of my yogurt cup. There is so much more that we don't know. What we know is one grain of sand compared to what we don't know, which is all grains of sand on all of the beaches on Earth.

Why do people feel threatened by other people who have creative minds? Sad, really. And to insist on belittling free thinkers is very telling, imho.

[TNOE]

291. Couldn't have said it better

myself. Truly great post Juniperx.

[Oregone]

141. First tipoff of man-made: The decimal point

Its far too human like in my opinion. The decimal mark can easily be made of thousands of symbols...coincidently an alien would pick a '.'? The 3 '.' marks at the end to signify lopping off of a larger number: human-like. Its also inefficient to write numbers like this simply because large numbers would take a massive amount of space up (an advanced race would think of this). If they were simply trying to use a universal constant to communicate "likeness" and "intelligence", wouldn't they pick the easiest way to show this? Such as....

III
-
I IIII I IIIII IIIIIIIII

or something like that arranged properly....


Further...WHY BASE 10?!? Thats a coincidence completely. Its just as plausible to use hex or binary number systems.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

143. shhhh...octal wouldn't make sense either...

any numbering system would make as much sense...if it had been in binary that would have been interesting...

sP

[muriel_volestrangler]

146. All is revealed in post #171

:evilgrin:

[ProdigalJunkMail]

152. but South Park said they were turning the COWS

inside out...how'd they get from that to humans being the smart ones on the planet???

sP

:banghead:

[muriel_volestrangler]

148. The '.' is just to let us know they're not French (nt)

[pokerfan]

193. Adding the ellipsis was a nice touch

Them aliens are smart.

[JuniperLea]

289. If this were some attempt at communication...

The decimal point would be key, and completely valid. I'm not saying little green men made this, I'm just saying your reasoning for it NOT being something super-human is flawed.

[Lars39]

153. Love how the road just happens to go thru it.

:D

[PfcHammer]

156. very nice

bunch of maths mofos no less :applause:

[patrick t. cakes]

165. this thread has been to funny...

rec.

[Marr]

166. I would love to know why kooky subjects like this seem to pop up so often

around left-leaning political discussion. Seems like about 1/3 the time I meet someone with whom I agree politically, they take an abrupt turn into Art Bell territory inside of 15 minutes.

Crop circles are made by human beings. I've seen a couple of techniques for making them demonstrated. There's zero evidence to suggest they're anything but man-made designs.

[anigbrowl]

173. Same reason about 1/3 of conservatives turn out to be creationists

I've come to the conclusion that about 1/3 of people in general will just believe anything, whether it's lien abductions or the Virgin Mary appearing on their bathroom wall. If we lived in Viking times they'd be rushing in to tell you they saw Thor flying across the sky or whatever.

[Echo In Light]

274. Liberals tend to be open minded, speculative. Rightists prefer a rigid, monumental "reality."

...all predictable and explainable, and seem to take great pleasure in castigating any who question the consensus reality.

And no, I'm not disagreeing that CC can and are created by people.

[Pithlet]

280. Yes, that would explain why creationists gravitate twoard the left.

I think you're on to something, there.

Seriously, though. This is why it's a bad idea to be painting with those broad brushes. Many, many people I know who are skeptics are liberal and progressive. My personal experience has been that they tend to be more often than not.

[Echo In Light]

303. There's a stark contrast between healthy "skepticism," and condescending/sneering at others...

...Because they, by varying degrees, lend credence to ideas/beliefs that fall outside of another's perceived "reality." It speaks to intent and motive, especially when much of it stems from fear of embarrassment that one's perceived political ideology must unfortunately be shared with those "kooky" liberals who aren't rigidly All About The Facts And Nothing But.

...which incidentally feeds directly into the conservative/authoritarian mindset, as well as their propaganda to dissuade others from tolerating such "moon bats." De-humanizing "enemies" is a central aspect of such actions.

"The monumentalism of fascism would seem to be a safety mechanism against the bewildering multiplicity of the living. The more lifeless, regimented, and monumental reality appears to be, the more secure the men feel. The danger is being alive itself." ~ Klaus Theweleit, Male Fantasies

[Canuckistanian]

170. Yes, pi to the 10th decimal was previously a SECRET

:eyes:

[lovuian]

175. I love cropcircles and am a believer

http://youtube.com/watch?v=qdAPgcXOQmM

http://youtube.com/watch?v=KM5pL5tuuOI

[dems_rightnow]

268. I'm an Easter Bunny person myself

To each their own.

[and-justice-for-all]

184. Everyone loves a mystery...

and since this pseudoscience is harmless, unlike ID/Creationism, I find crop circles interesting. But I do not think they are made by anything other then people, sorry. Without hard evidence, it is a no to all other sources for this phenomena out outside of Human hands.

[zanne]

187. These guys did it...

http://youtube.com/watch?v=tYdPhawlFaE

[Greyskye]

189. LOL

Now that was funny! :thumbsup:

[csziggy]

257. No, probably this kid

http://youtube.com/watch?v=6cAs1YBELmA&feature=related

[Marie26]

190. Some drunken grad students could.

That's pretty cool, but not even as complex as some of the other crop circles.

[Kaleko]

192. Octafish asked, Any ideas?

Yeah. Are you familiar with Steven Greer's Disclosure Project?

http://www.disclosureproject.org/

It's just a lead I am following, not starting from the crop circle angle per se. But most intriguing anyway. Unlike the know-it-alls on this thread, I am curious, filled with wonder at the possibilities. Studying the unknown, what could be more intriguing?

Sad to see this thread become another example of casting pearls before you-know-whats.

[windoe]

202. I am. But I will not talk on DU about what I have seen with my own eyes

anymore, because these threads get highjacked by people who disrupt discussions about it, and effectively call me a liar or crazy. I will go elsewhere.

[Kaleko]

206. Same here.

I could have written your post.

And I'm not interested in convincing anyone of things they must vehemently deny or else their world-view is in danger of shattering. Why bother when there are many genuine explorers out there who we can contact via the net?

[windoe]

213. Couldn't stop my fingers

too pissed.

[BeHereNow]

216. Don't take the bait and keep a sense of humor- Essential on a thread like this.

Trust me on that...

BHN

[truth2power]

278. I agree. I give a lot of credit to SLaD and BHN and others...

for their efforts. I am so utterly tired of every thread like this being hijacked with nothing but ridicule, which is, of course, an attempt to diminish someone's point of view without having to offer any contrary evidence.

I've always thought that the level of ridicule is directly proportional to their fear that "there are more things in heaven and earth than are dreamt of in {their} philosophy".

[anigbrowl]

204. Have you heard of Occam's razor?

Many centuries ago, a monk named William of Occam suggested that one should not multiply entities unnecessarily. In other words, if existing knowledge is adequate to explain a phenomenon, there's no reason to go in search of more complex explanations. Studying the unknown is certainly intriguing, which is why people become scientists. However, they rely on a tool to guide them: the scientific method. Without sticking to a mthodological approach, consistency goes out the window.

As for the disclosure project, what a disappointment. when that started up I was hoping for something interesting but as usual it failed to materialize. Ever stop to wonder how Stephen Greer can get people to fork over $995 for a training session (lodging not included) on his CSETI website, but there's not one quality photograph, artifact, testable prediction or anything else providing evidence of visiting aliens. He's got a great conspiracy line going, but where's some evidence? The guy's been talking about a cover up for the last 7 years, but the problem is that anybody can make wild claims and then say 'it's been covered up!'. That doesn't prove anything.

where's the hard data? Are there any photographs I can download? Sound recordings of alien voices? Examples of alien biochemistry? Anything? No. Instead there's requests to fork over $$$$ more more vital information (about a cover up) http://www.disclosureproject.org/PDF-Documents/DPProductBrochure2008Flyer.pdf

[Kaleko]

208. My experience with Steven Greer's info has been quite different from yours.

And yes, I am familiar with Occam's Razor.

[anigbrowl]

222. Well this would be a great chance to impress me...

...and convince me that he has something other than a hopelessly disorganized site design to take money off people. If he was really concerned about disclosure (IMHO) he would not have his sermons and interviews all over the place, he'd have testimony and evidence out front and center where it was easy to find and study. But no, he wants $5 before he'll even grant access to the executive summary. Why not do what everyone else does, put the information up where everyone can see it and derive maintenance revenue from ad traffic? If someone asks me to pay to read something so I can decide whether it's it's viable or not, my response is 'no thanks'. At least in a bookshop I can browse the book and decide beforehand if I think it is worth the asking price.

This is what a truly open resource looks like: http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/project.jsp?project=911_project It's well organized, it's meticulous, it's accessible by anyone who is truly interested and its open to involvement from participants. It survives fine with donations. I don't agree with everything posted on the 9/11 timeline or consider it a 100.0% reliable source of data, but I do respect all the effort that has gone into trying to make it an objective historical resource.

So, this is your chance to tell me something specific and novel you have learned through Steven Greer. Not whether there is a conspiracy or this or that thing has been covered up by this or that government department - the nature of bureaucracies is that they are always tripping over themselves and doing stupid shit. Show or tell me something specific about ETs that I could possibly check for myself independently. As a one-time journalist, I still stick to the old rule that I don't buy anything unless I can get it confirmed by two independent sources.

[Kaleko]

236. First of all, I have no desire to impress you or anyone else.

I'm here to learn. Share some observations, if I can.

Secondly, I have found more information on the disclosure site and related links than I can ever fully examine or verify even if I worked at it full time, lol. And all of that without paying a dime.

[windoe]

211. Here are my favorites

'Every person takes the limits of their own field of vision for the limits of the world" Arthur Schopenhauer

"It is impossible for a man (sic) to learn what he thinks he already knows" Epictetus

"It is a mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." Aristotle

I have experienced what can only be explained by the Disclosure Project, but am only an eyewitness. I have experienced physical symptoms that I could get no help with afterwards. It was terrifying. Call it a black project, but the level of technology is mind boggling. And every single blasted time I post about this my computer crashes. I dare you to call me a liar.

[Kaleko]

217. They'll call you disturbed - a polite word for crazy.

But they know nothing about your reality. And that is a fact.

Here are two of my favorite quotes:



"The Central Intelligence Agency owns everyone of any significance in the major media."

~ William Colby, CIA Director from Sept. 1973 to Jan. 1976 under Presidents Nixon and Ford.
Colby was replaced by future President George H.W. Bush on January 30, 1976.
_______________________________________________________________________________________________


"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false."

~ William Casey, CIA Director from 1981 to 1987.

(Quote from internal staff meeting notes 1981)

Casey headed up the successful presidential campaign of Ronald Reagan in 1980 and served on the transition team following the election. After Reagan took office, he named Casey to the post of Director of the CIA.

According to a 600-page report by the CIA inspector general, Frederick Hintz, the CIA under Casey was complicit in the Contras' massive narco-trafficking operation which resulted in the crack epidemic.
_________________________________________________________________________________________________



And what a great name you have: windoe

[windoe]

235. We can be tracked and tagged like animals

and have induced experiences that resemble nightmares, but they are very different. I come from a family of scientists, physicists who have worked within the intelligence community, so I have been familiar with surveillance all my life. Hilariously enough, I consider myself a skeptic. Well, all I know is, the level of technology acquired in secret has surpassed projects that are funded in the open by a quantum (pun intended) leap of development in recent years.

Stephen Greer has said that there is a concerted effort to coverup this terrestrial technology with a program to convince us that all sightings are alien. But there are also other sightings that are not 'ours' but are extraterrestrial. However, in order to believe that, one must take the first step in understanding the level of technology and what we have here. It is mind boggling.

I love to joke around, but somehow just the fact we never have an intelligent conversation about it in the mainstream is amazing, and like all other coverups, the fact that the shadow government has such technology needs to be brought out in the open, at the very least. Then we can take it from there.

[Kaleko]

246. You're brave to say that here, windoe.

Just for you and maybe 2 or 3 others, I'll post Greer's latest

ANNOUNCEMENT

DR. STEVEN GREER AND THE DISCLOSURE PROJECT

DENVER PRESENTATION

WEDNESDAY JULY 9, 2008, 7:30 PM

Steven M. Greer MD, the founder and director of The Disclosure Project (www.DisclosureProject.org) will be in Denver CO on July 9, 2008 at Turnhalle in the Tivoli.

Dr. Greer will be presenting a summary of over 500 government, military, intelligence and corporate witnesses to UFO events and projects and will be discussing the implications of the issue. Dr. Greer, who has personally briefed heads of state, members of Congress, a sitting CIA Director and other senior government officials on the UFO matter will provide an overview of the subject and expose the reasons behind the continuing secrecy.

Key to this secrecy is the existence of Unacknowledged Special Access Projects (USAPs) that operate outside of Presidential and Congressional oversight and that are beholden to special interests in the corporate, financial and energy sectors.

The energy and propulsion systems used by so-called UFOs (or extraterrestrial vehicles) has been studied for over 60 years using taxpayer funds and the disclosure of this vital information would completely replace the need for oil, gas, coal and nuclear power.

Dr. Greer states that “In light of the growing energy and environmental crisis, it is imperative that the people of the United States know the truth and work to see that full Disclosure occurs as soon as possible. The mistake of classifying as top secret this information in the 1940s and 1950s has now resulted in a genuine world emergency that requires the thoughtful attention of every concerned citizen.”

Mr. Jeff Peckman, who is heading up the Extraterrestrial Affairs Commission Denver ballot initiative, will also be present and make a brief presentation on that project.

The presentation is open to the media and public.

A nominal admission fee of $5.00 will be collected to cover expenses.

Location: Metro State College
Turnhalle in the Tivoli
Tivoli Student Union Building
900 Auraria Parkway
Denver CO 80204-1852

Phone: [phone]

Directions: Across the Auraria Parkway from the Pepsi Center. Turn southeast onto 9th Street, off of Auraria Parkway. It is a highly visible national historic building, with ample parking in front.

Campus Map and Directions:
http://www.ahec.edu/campusmaps/maps.htm (Building #7)
Tivoli Student Union Map

Media inquiries may be directed to:
Email: [e-mail]
Phone: [phone]

The Disclosure Project is a 501 (C) (3) nonprofit organization


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Who knows, maybe somebody will check it out and tell us about it here.

[windoe]

247. It's so great not to be laughed at

I shake physically when I have to recall what happened. It is an important subject.

[Kaleko]

252. I can only imagine what it must be like...

to have encounters of the 3rd or 4th kind. :hug:

My experience was much less drastic than yours, but still undeniable. And I cherish it for opening the window for me at an early age toward a more cosmic consciousness.

[seemslikeadream]

254. HI!

I can't believe I missed this conversation

[Kaleko]

256. Hi beautiful

dreamslikeitsreal :pals:

[truth2power]

283. SLaD, I just wanted to jump in and say thanks for your efforts. eom

[seemslikeadream]

295. Thanks truth2power

I was just having a little fun, crop circles are beautiful and a mystery. And I was celebrating that georgie is going to be tried as a war criminal

[truth2power]

281. Kaleko...please check your inbox. It would be great

if Greer's presentation could be posted on the internet for those of us for whom it's not feasible to travel to CO.

[anigbrowl]

229. Well, you are welcome to PM me if you would like

I will certainly entertain your story, even if I wind up not accepting it. I can't call you a liar since I have no idea what your claims are, just that you had a bad experience and may or may not have an unreliable computer. If do PM I'll be happy to give it a sympathetic read, although I would suggest you take a minimalist, just-the-facts approach in your description.

If you get a lot of crashes it might be better to type your story with notepad or something like that and save it so you could just paste it into a message rather than lose the text if you get some sort of crash.

[windoe]

242. i wrote some of it for you

check your PM. So far it was hard to tell whether a storm interrupted my service or a ping.

[anigbrowl]

260. OK, I just replied. I was watching TV for a while.

[windoe]

285. I wrote the rest of the story

thanks for being respectful. :)

[Xipe Totec]

197. Not all crop circles are made by humans

This one was definitely not made by humans

[flvegan]

198. This thread is like a magnificent crop circle.

I have no clue how it happened, but I find it to be an intriguing event to look at.

[ghostsofgiants]

223. But whether human or alien, a crop circle indicates a level of intelligence, does it not?

:evilgrin:

[Lone_Star_Dem]

201. It's beautiful and intriguing.

I have no idea how it was made though. I don't know anything about crop circles. I just appreciate their artistic qualities.

[Elidor]

207. Farmers around here make corn mazes and charge admission

I could see English farmers out there at night, dreaming of a little extra cash before harvest.

[SPKrazy]

209. I think crop circles happen at energy vortexes on Earth

there are vortexes like at Sedona in Arizona that happen to be in crop areas. Some energy field that we've yet to understand or harness is making these. Hoaxers don't come close to the beauty and complexity of the ones that are done by these energy fields.





















I know this because I am a super double secret agent for the Intergalactic Force :P

Seriously, I have no idea, maybe it is some energy force, harmonic sound, who knows.

This thread however is PRICELESS :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[wildbilln864]

210. Crop circles are a joke! nt

[mainegreen]

214. This thread should be bronzed and hung in the DU lobby.

Holy friggin hell is this thread funny.

Seriously, this might possibly be the BEST thread I've read on DU in a year!

:rofl:

Keep up the good work!

[BeHereNow]

215. You should have been here before the delete of the sub-thread!!!

I was laughing my ass off...

This is why we LOVE DU, no?

We need a Hall of Fame thread shrine at the very least.
BHN

[seemslikeadream]

224. This has been so much fun and I'm so glad you were here

[seemslikeadream]

218. less than one millionth of reality

Until the twentieth century, reality was everything humans could touch, smell, see and hear. Since the initial publication that charted the electromagnetic spectrum, humans have learned that what they can touch, smell, see and hear is less than one millionth of reality.

Richard Buckminster Fuller

[Nia Zuri]

234. Oh, but science, science, science, it's not measurable!!!!!

:sarcasm: Naysayers think that "we" know al there is to know, that our current, rather primitive science can exlain everything. They are full of ignorance. Just like the folks who thought horseflies were somehow made out of shit, because that was "observable" at the time; that disease was spread through bad humors, that the earth was the center of the universe; they laugh at those with open minds when really it is their own ignorance that is astounding...

[anigbrowl]

259. Yes, but the joy of science is that you can get results

It's all very well to point out how many things remain unknown, but doing so doesn't actually make one any wiser. That's the same line of thinking that the creationists use, they just ascribe the unknown to God or the bible. What you believe is what you believe; when you say you know something expect to be asked to demonstrate it. If you can't do so, how is someone to tell whether you're bloviating or not?

[Octafish]

238. You need more physics. You need less physics.

That's not even counting dimensions or universe layers or quantum wave functions or who knows what? Not I.

One thing I do know: It is good to have a friend in this big, old, lonely universe.

[Radical Activist]

220. Aren't the farmers getting pissed off by now?

Another year, another acre lost to those damn crop circles!

[seemslikeadream]

221. Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.

William Butler Yeats


COME ON BABY LIGHT MY FIRE

I DO LOVE ME SOME OCTAFISH

LET'S HAVE A BONFIRE~

[Ravy]

227. I thought the british used a comma as their decimal point. nt

[anigbrowl]

261. Nope. I seem to remember the French do, or at least used to. Not in the UK though.

[gulfcoastliberal]

232. K&R Funny how some people are so incredibly closed-minded.

What I find interesting is that the governments of the US and Britain sometimes send military choppers to investigate these things. Why would that be?

[Fox Mulder]

233. I must be a conspiracy wacko...

because I believe some crop circles are NOT man made.

:eyes:

[seemslikeadream]

237. You are so wacked Fox Mulder

[Fox Mulder]

241. I like that graphic...

I wonder what it'd look like if I were high right now?

:rofl:

[seemslikeadream]

243. what do you mean if?

come on now just between you and me

[midnight]

248. This is very beautiful.

[seemslikeadream]

251. one for you

[L. Coyote]

249. Trying to figure out who is on DU? Note the stats on this thread!!

Pete G. did this!

[seemslikeadream]

253. This is where the party is tonight!

I've caught up listening to the torture hearings and I am in a very good mood

[Greyskye]

255. .

It's like this is The Devil's Den or something like that. :evilgrin:


:toast:

[windoe]

263. It's the Full Moon conjunct Pluto

keeping me awake, Has anyone seen those little flying disks? They look like a silver dinner plate, completely silent.

[jumptheshadow]

264. DU Thread of the Year!

Don't read this thread if you are drinking a beverage.

[seemslikeadream]

270. ..........

[crimsonblue]

265. it ain't aliens...

those that believe that it is, wtf are you smoking and can I get some?

[ColbertWatcher]

266. I found this crop circle in the field behind the MSNBC building...

That took forever, sorry it's not perfect

[windoe]

267. Someone show me a messed up crop circle

humans mess up, miscalculate and sometimes are uncoordinated. How come all of them look so perfect? Huh? Huh?

Bubba Curley and Mo never go out on a wild night and decide to make a crop circle?

[Echo In Light]

273. I don't have any concrete views on CC - I consider either side to have valid points

However, you're question is spot on. A cursory Google Image search didn't really unearth anything.

Be it farmers, or math geeks, with too much time on their hands, one would expect to find many photos of botched efforts.

Now, this is when certain hostile conspiracy deniers may go apeshit and begin posting pics of failed CC attempts while sneering and jeering all the way, lol ... so yes, please feel free to do so! Given how many have taken credit for creating them, and how practice makes perfect, I'm sure such failed efforts are documented somewhere.

[eowyn_of_rohan]

279. A definitive question

Doubt if you'll get a response from the hecklers

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

307. Here

The eye is to elliptical, and part of his back is too flat.

Not that it's hard to make a crop circle look pretty good from a couple hundred feet up.

I'm able to mow my lawn every weekend without leaving large patches unmowed.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

282. k

[windoe]

287. I know I am annoying as hell on this

but I have to make one more point.

The disk (I am not calling it an extraterrestrial!) that I saw was silently floating at my zenith, above my head and a little back, completely in my blind spot. If it didn't block out the sun that day or made a shadow on the ground I would have never looked up, since it was completely silent.

I know people do not look up. When I was in college and even more annoying than I am now I used to throw snowballs from an upper story window just to watch how people looked around, but never ever up. Reminds me of a dog I once had as a child, used to play hide & seek with him, and he would sniff the ground all the way to the tree I was up and look around till I called to him and he was surprised every time.

We have to break out of our 2 dimensional worlds, if you don't look for something, almost guaranteed you will never find it.

[JuniperLea]

290. People are terrified of what they can't explain...

Well, some people are.

If you can't think outside the box, you can't think to look up;)

Short story... at the park one day watching my kids play. I noticed a gathering of white spots in the sky, and I thought they were gulls. An hour later, I noticed the spots were still there! I watched them move around for a while... couldn't be balloons... too long in one spot for gulls... probably too far up too. My kids were 10 and under... we rested in the shade and ate PB&J's... I pointed the spots out to the kids... we laid back on the grass and watched the spots for another 30 minutes or so... at this point at least three hours had passed. The spots all of a sudden shot off in different directions! The four of us said... WWWHHHHHHOOOOOOOOOOOAAAAAAAAAAA! We cheered:) And we hoped it was someone smarter than ourselves.

I've since read many, many similar stories. I'm open:)

[Greyskye]

297. I saw a UFO once

This was in Santa Fe, NM. Somewhere in the 1974-75 time frame.

Nighttime. I saw a what appeared to be a rotating, shallow (meaning wider then it was tall) object. It was glowing gold as it 'spun', and seemed to be heading in our direction. I went in to get my parents and the company who was visiting, and we all went outside to check it out. As it kept getting closer, the rotating gold colors appeared to be moving in a downward motion within the objects outline as well.

We observed this for 5 to 10 minutes, as it moved across the horizon, gradually getting closer and closer. We were all incredulous, excited - we were seeing an actual UFO with our own eyes - this was exciting stuff!

Until it got close enough that we could see (and hear), that it was in actuality a bi-plane, with some sort of a cylindrical wire frame around a good portion of the plane, which evidently had an electronic marquee of some sort on it, with a scrolling advertisement on it. The motion of the words as they went around had given the illusion at a distance, of a fiery rotating disk.

We all had a big laugh at our 'UFO' - unidentified no longer. Damn! I want to believe! :)

[JuniperLea]

298. :) me too

I saw Electric Light Orchestra at Angels Stadium in 1978, and their latest album cover was:



They had a great laser show, and somewhere in the middle of said show, a helicopter was heard... next thing you know, they were hoisting a huge "flying saucer" like that on the album cover... I so wanted it to be real! It looked great! The helicopter kept it's lights off, so all you could see was the saucer all aglow.

[seemslikeadream]

296. 2 dimensional world?

some people live in only one dimension!

[LongTomH]

292. Here's a take on that from Phil Platt - my favorite science blogger.

Bad Astronomy Blog > Crop Circularity:

And yet there is an astonishing range of dumbosity even within the crop circle field (haha, "field"). The latest, reported on a Faux Fox News website, has one that has — be prepared to gasp — the number pi encoded in it.

I’ve read the description twice, and I still can’t figure out what the guy is saying. But it seems suspicious that rounding is involved. Whenever you do that, precision kinda goes out the window. But let’s assume, sure, pi is in the crop circle. Then my fave is this:

Crop-circle enthusiasts claim that’s just more proof that the barley and wheat stalks have been stomped on by aliens who seem to have a special affinity for southern England.

Y’know, that would be more convincing if humans didn’t know what pi was. But since we do, how does that preclude humans from creating this circle?

More skepticism here: Bad Astronomy Blog

[windoe]

299. The idea that mathematically perfect and precise geeks go out at night

to create crop circles as a national sport in England is really entertaining, and impressive.

You know it is interesting that in this country there is a coverup of secret technologies that enables the public to think all UFOs are extraterrestrial, while the opposite is in effect in England, they wish to support the impression that the crop circle phenomena is of terrestrial origin, while marginalizing the extraterrestrial point of view (leaving speculation open enough to encourage tourism). It is handled slightly different in each country.

I know that crop circles are not nearly as worthy of secrecy as antigravity or free energy or remote viewing machines, but it is interesting to step back a bit from all the hysteria and analyze the public relations aspect.

[L. Coyote]

304. Mystery + hyperbole = profit

if you can round up a lot of easy marks, of course :rofl: