Feingold on FISA: 'A dark hour for the Constitution'

[kpete]

Feingold on FISA: 'A dark hour for the Constitution'
Nick Langewis and David Edwards
Published: Wednesday July 9, 2008

MSNBC's Rachel Maddow talked with Russ Feingold about FISA legislation that was by the Senate today.

Feingold said, "This is a sad moment. It is a black mark not only on the Democrats but the Congress and really the history of our country. The same thing, Rachel, happened with regard to the Patriot Act after we tried to fix it in a flawed way and a period of strength for Democrats held firm and then they collapsed and the same thing happened again here. This administration, despite its weakness, was somehow able to raise the specter of being, as they say, soft on terrorism and, unfortunately, Democrats can be so strong on domestic issues somehow a collapse. And that's exactly what happened. This is a terrible piece of legislation. One of the greattest assaults on the Constitution, I think, in the history of our country. We'll have to fix it, but it is a dark hour for the Constitution."

This video is from MSNBC's Countdown, broadcast July 9, 2008.
here:
http://rawstory.com/news/2008/Feingoldon_on_FISA_A_dark_hour_0709.html

[chill_wind]

1. That's a very good description. K & R. n/t

[elocs]

2. I certainly did not see Feingold in sackcloth and ashes and mourning the demise of the Constitution.

To hear the way some here are carrying on you might think it was the end of the Republic, but Feingold did not express that at all. He was confident that things would change under Obama. I also didn't hear him trash the Democratic Party or any of the other senators who voted in favor of the bill. Unlike many of the "woe is me" crowd here, Feingold was hopeful and I doubt that anybody here worked harder than he did to stop FISA.

[Demit]

4. You did notice that he called it the one of the greatest asaults on the Constitution in the history

of our country? It's nice that Feingold is hopeful, but this bill passed 69-28. A lot has to change to change the minds of 20+ Democratic Senators—who just helped give away the right of the people not to be spied on without a warrant for probable cause.

BTW, sackcloth and ashes are for penitents. You're misusing the term.

[elocs]

6. You did notice that Feingold was confident that Obama would fix things?

There was no, "Woe is me, our Constitution and Republic are finished" from Feingold. Let's tell the entire story, not just the parts we prefer.

Since it evidently is so important to you--sackcloth and ashes: "a display of extreme remorse or repentance or grief". The "grief" part of the definition here certainly fits since I have read numerous posters grieving over the demise of the Constitution. I didn't hear Feingold talk that way and neither did I hear him say that the 4th Amendment was erased from the Constitution. So, better luck next time on your corrections.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

9. If Obama is going to "fix" things why did he vote "yea"?

Kinda like a bank robber promising to return the money after he's done with it.

[elocs]

13. Did Feingold condemn him or other Democrats for voting "yea"?

Regarding Obama, I'll take my cues about this vote from my Senator Feingold. My support and trust in Obama has not wavered.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

14. Uh..Feingold voted against it.

Apparently, you and Obama got different cues.

[elocs]

15. Apparently you chose to miss my question:

Did Feingold condemn him or other Democrats for voting "yea"? I think I will take my cues from Feingold as to how to react to Obama for voting yea.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

16. You will. I won't.

[elocs]

18. Fair enough. n/t

[FredfromSpace]

11. I saw the Countdown interview. He was straining...

And was not at all optimistic regarding any short-term fix under the next president.

He still supports the nominee to be sure. He'd be "nuts" not to.

Did you see the interview?

[elocs]

12. Yes I did. All of it. I guess we see the elephant differently.

I guess I am not qualified to determine if he was straining and I don't remember him actually saying he was not at all optimistic about anything.

When we look at the elephant we tend to only see what we want to see. Regarding Obama's interview I am going with his actual words and not reading anything into them or his body language.

[Demit]

19. You are misusing the term. It has to do with remorse at something you yourself did wrong.

[pleah]

3. Where was the filibuster? It didn't look like much of a fight to me.

To sin by silence when they should protest makes cowards of men.
- Abraham Lincoln
_________________________________

A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.
- Edward R. Murrow


When fascism come to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross.
-Sinclair Lewis

[file83]

5. Good cop, Bad cop. What a dark day indeed, so why didn't he filibuster again?

Someone said something about it not being possible to filibuster it, why?

[Goblinmonger]

7. Not enough votes

to stop the vote to close debate.

[indepat]

8. The stain of totalitarianism is now so woven inexorably and indelibly into the American

fabric, humpty-dumpty can never be put together again. Hang on for the speed in which this country goes to hell in a hand basket will likely be breathtaking. So for now, heil, mein Fuhrer! :D

[redqueen]

10. I thought it was interesting that he didn't comment

on the possibility of criminal suits later.

Some experts here (ahem) have said it's impossible... John Dean seems to be saying otherwise... I wonder what Feingold thinks about it.

[BurtWorm]

17. I don't really understand why Obama did not trust himself to follow Feingold on this,

It doesn't speak well of him. I thought he understood how profoundly Americans want and need real change.

[Demit]

20. The only thing I can see is that he's the one running for president, & he'd like the extended powers

It is utterly perplexing to me. There was no clamoring from the general populace for this bill, no groundswell of opinion. There was a genuine response from people to Obama and his message of change. Perhaps, after 8 years of Americans swallowing talk—of 'liberty', of 'freedoms'—he figured we'd be happy with the talk. Not real change, but talk of change.

I can't find credible that he voted for this bill for any other reason other than that he wants those powers. I just can't. As they say, when you hear hoofbeats, don't think of zebras.

[BurtWorm]

23. I suspect he's playing a Clintonian triangulation game.

I don't know him enough to know whether or not your reading is accurate. That sort of motive would be understandable coming from someone who, contrary to everything Obama seems to be about up to this point, is an I-leader rather than a we-leader.

It makes more sense to me as a move to win some comfort with him from the center-right among the elite of the Democratic Party--the New Republic-ans.

[Better Believe It]

24. I Think You Got It Right

"I can't find credible that he voted for this bill for any other reason other than that he wants those powers."

I'm afraid you're right.

He does.

And that's bad for our nation and civil liberties.

That's not the kind of change people are demanding.

[Individualist]

21. K&R

[Better Believe It]

22. K&R

[Disturbed]

25. An ironic photo of Feingold on Common Dreams & Huffpo.

Both sites have an article about the FISA Bill vote with his photo. The photo suggests that he voted for this Bill when, of course he vehemently opposed it.