What does it say for America when its our own government that is our worst enemy?

[madokie]

I fear our government much more than any other country or being.

[HCE SuiGeneris]

1. that we have fallen a long way down...

[leftofthedial]

2. that 2000 was a coup

[Bob Dobbs]

5. '63 was a coup, '90 was a coup, 2004 was a coup, (2008 ?) .

The spineless populace keeps letting the power elite get away with it, so they keep doing it.

[librechik]

35. don't forget about 72, when the Watergate Burglars were operating to destroy Dems

can we know that election was not manipulated? It was at the very least, tainted.

And in 1980, didn't the Pukkkes destroy Carter with devious backstage maneuvering with the Iran hostages?

I don't think a damn Republican has gotten into office fair and square since Teddy Roosevelt.

[The Doctor.]

43. It's not that they're 'spineless', they're programmed.

Through the 60-70's, they could only get away with so much... and they did. During those times of great protests, they learned their lesson; the populace must be subdued through the media. So they slowly gained control and began to manipulate the information the people received. These days, if we had the same media we had even in the 80's, this administration would have been deposed long ago.

But that is not the case. The people are not receiving the facts, and so long as the media doesn't report the truth about just how criminal this administration is, the people are able to comfortably ignore all those ancillary sources and pretend that 'everything's ok'.

For the most part, they just don't get the internet yet, and they're constantly told that 'you can't believe what you see on the internet'. Sure enough, the RW is working tirelessly to make certain that holds true.

The worst I could accuse the American people of is laziness... not spinelessness. That title goes to the Democrats in congress.

[NightWatcher]

3. too bad militias are full of wackjobs. we need a Progressive Patriot Movement

[madokie]

6. Thats what I think too

I haven't been seeing any around these woods of late but there for a while a few years ago they were crawling out of the woodwork. What we need is a good ole you and I type progressive patriot movement where we assert ourselves with the protection of big sticks, pitchforks and big vats of tar and an ample supply of feathers. Letting it be known that this shit is going to stop one way or the other but stop it must.

[NightWatcher]

10. ooooo tar and feathers, I'm getting light headed and excited

[arcadian]

11. Turn the cameras back on them

Turn them back on the authoritarians. They hate having their misdeeds used against them. It's why cops hate being photographed, they know what they are doing is wrong. Every citizen should carry a camera and use it when they see the police state intrude on anybody's rights.

[madokie]

14. And a large percentage of us have a camera with our cell phones

I can email a picture back to my home computer so fast as to make their confiscating and/or destroying of my camera to not be much of an issue too. I can replace the phone/camera.

[cliffordu]

15. And we can all be friends in the Sears Homeland Security detention center.

[madokie]

21. I'll go to that place with my head held high if its for something I've yet to do

I'll really be pissed if they are collecting names now for when it does finally happen where we are told our constitution has been suspended until further notice.

[cliffordu]

28. Whole lot of pissed off veterans with 'mad skeels' might not be willing to go

quietly.....

I'm just sayin'..

[madokie]

33. I know :-)

[bdamomma]

34. oh, there are many of those vets who are angry.

and we could be producing many Timothy McVeigh's now.

[cliffordu]

38. Mc Veigh was a punk. Blowing up civilians is no way to make a point.

Only a coward and a failure resorts to that.

He should have sat in an intersection and set himself on fire. It would have gone further as a message.


Resisting while being herded into camps, well, that might be different, wouldn't it??

[dipsydoodle]

4. Not a lot

.

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

8. Why?

Why does that not evoke a greater reaction in you? I am sincerely interested.

Because, personally, I think that government and its agencies, in various degrees and at every level, have become the greatest threat to citizens extent. With the Washington Cabal ahead in this scabrous race at the very top of the pustulent food chain.

And no, I don't think Norquistian "less government" is the answer, just better government, and an understanding by politicians of all stripes and levels that certain people hire them as custodians of a legacy and that they are not hired to get rich, fuck things up and be martinets and liars.

[dipsydoodle]

9. People get what they deserve

because they have allowed it to happen.

[madokie]

16. Thats really not a very healthy way of looking at it.

The framers of our country would be appalled if they heard you say that. I would think anyway. But if that is how you see it then its fine with me, I just don't see it that way:hi:

[dipsydoodle]

25. Maybe that was a bit strong

but I do find it so sad that which the American people seem to have allowed to happen. :hi:

There are other posts today alluding to "the coup". I think they're quite right.

[ben_meyers]

7. Government is not the solution to our problem.

Government is the problem?

[madokie]

12. Governments when done right are a good thing

our is not that one right now though. I find the burden somewhat on my shoulders for letting this get so out of hand as I'm sure a lot of others do too. If not for us we must get it right before we all die off because its on our watch that this has happened. Our grand children deserves better no matter the cost to us as individuals. We have to start looking at it from the perspective of the future, its no longer me or mine anymore.

[NightWatcher]

17. if we cannot be trusted to control ourselves, how can we establish a system of men to control us?

Every system of government outside of the small tribal framework has failed since the beginning of time.

Men cannot rule themselves, but we put men in charge of ruling others???

[madokie]

19. That knowledge is what the framers created this as a nation of laws and not of men

Thats the real difference and we done fine with that approach up until this present crew of traitors took over. Not a one of these perpretrators are going to walk away from this as free people, maybe for a day or two but not for very long.

[NightWatcher]

23. this "present crew" has been running things as a kingdom since they knocked off JFK, staged 9/11...

where was Bush The First when JFK was assassinated? Dallas
who was BTF meeting with on 9/11? Bin Laden family business people

Nixon, Rumsfeld, Cheney, Bush The First............. the same cabal has turned this land of law into the nation of men that we have today. They are getting old and dying, but alas they too are reproducing. (bush's daughter and a rovian protege)

[Greyhound]

37. You see, that's just not true. It has been true since we established and

forced a hierarchical system on humans, but prior to that the cooperative model worked for tens of thousands of years.

Humans are not inherently evil, they are made that way by system in which they are forced to live.

[dipsydoodle]

27. Before I opened your post

I was intent on replying "Government is the problem". :toast:

It pisses me off no end over here in the UK that politicians get voted in for what they say they will do - and then they simply don't.

[HughBeaumont]

13. I think corporations and the wealthy that run them are a far worse enemy.

Government merely makes things easier for them. For now.

There isn't any glimmer of hope that the wealthy are going to quit their fuck-the-world-I-needs-mine ways any time soon. Until they stop, which they won't, we're heading nowhere except the fast track to widespread ruin. Economies cannot expand when your potential consumers are unemployed and cannot find jobs because they aren't cheap enough. Economies cannot expand when the average worker makes 1% less than his 1970s counterparts in real dollars.

I consider the average modern wealthy individual as nothing but a detriment to progress. Nothing more.

[madokie]

18. For the most part I agree with you Hugh

I think the facts is we are going to have to start putting a lot more effort into our government on personal levels if we wish to leave our children and grand children anything at all. I do

[NightWatcher]

26. the government is comprised of businessmen and vice versa. The term is "corpo-fascist state"

Bush- Enron- Bush
Cheney- Halliburton- Iraq

[HughBeaumont]

42. And when congressmen/Senators leave, where do they go?

You guessed it: huge paychecks in the pharmaceutical/defense sectors as "consultants" or outright VPs/CEOs.

One in the same. And good guys like Kucinich and Sanders are branded as kooks.

[Greyhound]

39. They are the same people, corporations are just the currently fashionable tool

they use to exert the power they have stolen. They move into government in order to usurp authority and then they move back into the private sector to reap the rewards of their efforts.

[spanone]

20. it says our citizenry best wake up and get off our fat asses and change this shit.

cause government ain't gonna fix itself

[madokie]

32. Thats right the fixing they've done so far has got us where we are now.

[bdamomma]

36. until it bites us all on our butts, it will be then when we say ENOUGH.

again, we are the only ones to deal with this horrific crisis.

[FiveGoodMen]

22. It says that we've let a bunch of TV preachers turn us into idiots

[lpbk2713]

24. This pretty much says it all ...

[GregD]

29. My friend referred what we have lived through the past 7+ years

as a persistent state of panic. That pretty much sums it up.

[dipsydoodle]

30. One of the main contibutory factors is this

I borrowed that pic from this post today : http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x3640131

Yes indeed - at worst your media lies : at best it's economic with the truth. x(

[indepat]

31. We have met the enemy and it is us (we)

:D

[ladjf]

40. It says that there has been a coup d'etat. The crooks have taken

over.

[barbtries]

41. me too

it says nothing too encouraging for america. my hope is in the elections and in the children growing up. i hope they'll be better though i do fear they'll have a harder time of it because of the crimes committed by the government over the past several years.