cnn headline: Could an Obama victory hurt black Americans?

[spanone]

oh what the fuck will they think up next???

~snip~ That's the slogan on a popular T-shirt linking Sen. Barack Obama's presidential run to the Rev. Martin Luther King's dream of racial equality. It's one of several T-shirts -- including "Barack is my homeboy"-- that reflect African-American's euphoria over Obama's White House bid.

But there are others who warn that an Obama presidency could hurt African-Americans. They say that an Obama victory could cause white Americans to ignore entrenched racial divisions while claiming that America has reached the racial Promised Land.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/07/22/obama.hurt.blacks/index.html

[NightWatcher]

1. someone there needs to be hit in the head with a sock full of moldy bologna

[spanone]

3. where is the article saying if mccain wins we might disband the military

thinking that the military now has reached the promised land blah blah blah blah

[arcadian]

2. CNN Headline: Were blacks responsible for their own enslavement?

Some say Yes. :eyes:

[Eric J in MN]

4. By this logic, everything good which happens is actually bad...

...because some people might say a good thing happening means that everything is perfect:

If electric cars become commonplace, that's actually bad, because what if someone says that means that all of our energy problems are solved?

[GOPBasher]

44. Good point! n/t

[exothermic]

5. It could absolutely product that result. I have heard much the same thing from people

talking about Tiger Woods. Ignoring facts does not make them go away.

[spanone]

8. it's not true with tiger woods and i doubt it will be true with barack obama..these are not facts

[exothermic]

12. I am relaying what I hear with my own ears. You don't have to like it but you should believe me

I'm not lying. There seem to be a lot of people here who are taking Obama's election as a given...and I'm telling you it is a hell of a long trip between now and the White House. I would have given BIG odds that Bush would never live there back in 2000.

[spanone]

14. explain please. you think obama will be bad for blacks, please explain

[exothermic]

16. I don't necessarily think it will be that extreme but the article in the OP

explains it quite well...did you read it?

[spanone]

18. did i read it? i posted it. did you read it?

i'd like to know how tiger woods has hurt golf or blacks in golf?

[exothermic]

25. I'm sorry but your inability to grasp the concept is beyond my power to repair.

Don't bother replying, I won't see any.

[spanone]

28. now that's a good argument there....don't bother replying..well i did but i guess you won't see it

i want to hear your 'tiger woods' comparison. please. you mentioned tiger so please enlighten me.

[Terran]

29. It's an interesting article, actually

A lot of worst case scenarios, IMO, but some are plausible. I found the idea of Obama's election functioning as "white guilt repellent" interesting, but I think you'd have to pretty foolish, personally, to buy into such an idea for oneself. As Obama himself is quoted as saying, to paraphrase, the elction of one man isn't going to heal the racial divide overnight. Any idiot can see that it still takes real political and cultural change to do that. Of course there's no shortage of idiots...

My hope for an Obama presidency is that a large number of mildly racist whites will be changed by it. When you see a person of color in a position like that, constantly exposed to the media and seeming to affect your daily life, I think it tends to blunt certain illogical notions about color that people have. It's true that people like Colin Powell and Oprah Winfrey and Tiger Woods are just individuals, but people like them have a long-term effect on perception. They help teach people things they don't know about race, and they help end ignorance with their high-profile presences. Obama can have that kid of influence, but on a vastly greater scale.

[shadowknows69]

62. Yeah, because the PGA is just overrun with black golfers these days

[exothermic]

63. I just can't figure out why some people are unable to separate fact from opinion.

OR to simply get the point. I am trying to point out that there are a lot of white (men, mostly) who have come to the conclusion that
(I will put this in quotes so you will have a better chance to see I am referring to what OTHERS say)
"Tiger's success proves African Americans have achieved complete equality and that's enough"

Do you see now?

[Indenturedebtor]

6. Some say that CNN is balanced or even liberal

The question is... as these people are clearly brain dead - how do they manage to speak?

CRUSH THE MEDIA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Brewman_Jax]

7. The exception is not the rule

that's illogic along the lines of saying the Jim Crow era was a fine time--if you weren't black. :eyes:

[libnnc]

9. Who writes this shit?

What other crap will they be pulling out of their asses?

[exothermic]

21. Paul Street, a noted black author brought it up...

:eyes:

[TNOE]

39. Just because people are black

doesn't mean they will automatically vote for Obama. Look at the many blacks on TV who are for McCain. Many blacks see Obama as white.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

24. this shit makes a lot of sense. nt

[libnnc]

47. to people who don't want Obama elected. n/t.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

54. no. to people who study race and society or any field of sociology and psychology. nt

[libnnc]

57. to whom is this CNN piece directed? Intellectuals or low info whites?

can't have it both ways.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

59. its an intellectual piece arguing about the effects of tokenism amongst racist

and those who are less informed.

i really dont understand where your confusion lies.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

10. its not a ridiculous argument, its actually a legitimate argument

while i am glad obama made it, and i really really hope he is president. there is always a problem of tokenism when one person in an oppressed groups makes it.

[exothermic]

13. Thank you for observing the obvious. It seems that some folks here are operating under the delusion

that this election will be a cakewalk.

[spanone]

15. no one said it will be a cakewalk...where did you get that?

[exothermic]

22. I guess you've missed all the threads beginning with "President Obama"

:eyes:

[spanone]

40. i think that's called 'hope' here on du

[RadiationTherapy]

64. "tokenism". Thanks for this mindblowingly obvious concept

that I had never heard a word for before.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

70. welcome

[grasswire]

11. this was brought up on Bill Moyers by AA professors

Extremely well educated and accomplished professors -- one at Harvard. They discussed this very phenomenon, that some white liberals support Obama in order to have their long-time guilt over race assuaged. They also discussed the probability that Obama would not be able to do for the black community what AAs hope for.

So don't blame this on CNN. It's a legitimate discussion.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

17. people forget how race is tied with socioecomics and that i think will be

a large part of the aftermath of this

[TNOE]

19. Oh brother.

I'm sorry, but again, "oh brother". Come on - like he could possibly do any more damage than the rich elite white frat boys have done? They have shown us over & over again that they care not one whit about the middle/lower class. None. And now - we are to fear Obama? Please.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

20. its not the damage to the middle class this argument is about, its damage to poor blacks

[TNOE]

32. Seriously?

Barak Obama might do more damage to "poor blacks" than Bush/McCain has or could? I just think that is an assine thought. Barak's model is to lift all boats - you lift from the bottom and all boats rise.

I just think this is more stupid media fear tactics.

Is Obama "black enough"?
Rev. Wright.
Barak HUSSEIN Obama.
Barak is a Muslim.
Does Barak risk looking "too presidential".

ETC., ETC., ETC.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

33. again, that is so not what the article discusses. maybe you should read it. nt

[TNOE]

37. I read it and I think the premise is assinine

as usual.

Its talking down to people. Like black people think they're going to turn into instant millionaires (Jed Clampant) the minute he gets elected because he's black - or that their hopes might get "too high" or that people will expect the racial divide to end overnight. Or that voting for Obama will alleviate white peoples guilt. I just say bullshit. I'm white and I'm voting for Barak Obama for his policies, his character, his message. It has nothing to do with pie in the sky ideas. Like Obama said - I BET ON THE AMERICAN PEOPLE. ITS OURS TO LOSE - and shit like this article doesn't help.

I don't know anyone who could possibly think this way. Americans (yes, even POOR BLACK Americans) are alot smarter than many give them credit for apparently.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

38. actually its not at all talking down to people especially black people

most of the article is about the attitude of white people.

[Terran]

43. At least one idea in the article is highly valid:

that a lot of white racists and wingnuts will cite an Obama presidency as the end of racism in America (and extrapolate from there, it will get really idiotic). You can absolutely count on that. A lot of the article is worst-case-scenario, but none of it is outside the realm of possibility. America has a lot of venal stupid people who will do all they can to sabotage Obama as president, even if it amounts to undermining the nation as a whole in a way that amounts to treason.

[Ichingcarpenter]

23. I researched the author of the editorial a little

He did an article and an editorial on black mega prosperity churches also
on oppression politics




Clinton tangles with Obama in 'Oppression Sweepstakes'
http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/01/25/race.genderpolitics/index.html

Modern black church shuns King's message
http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/04/06/mlk.role.church/index.html?eref=rss_topstories

[LWolf]

71. That 2nd article is quite interesting.

Some of the events it refers to happened before I was born, the rest when I was too young to understand it.

I know that this is the first time I've heard or read about conflict within the AA community.

My memories of that period revolve around my grandparents, who worried, out loud, about their AA friends who were involved in some of those events. Worried about their safety. That, and the first political event my mom took me to, when I was 11, was to hear Angela Davis speak; she wasn't talking about conflict within the community, though, but about black men targeted by law enforcement.

I appreciate the link.

[Blecht]

26. Right-wing propaganda

I fucking hate this propaganda machine that passes for journalism these days. It is the #1 threat to democracy in our country.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

27. have any of you read the article? this is not right wing propaganda

[spanone]

30. it's not right wing propaganda. but the point it makes is what?? do we not elect obama?

do we not have a black president because it may hurt some blacks?

what is the point?

there are consequences to everything...and change is never easy.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

31. just because there is a presidential election doesnt mean all intellectual thought should be banned

academics should talk about potential implications of this and counter arguments to tokenism. closing the discussion of it is just as harmful in the long run.

in no part in the article did it say we shouldn't elect obama, just the implications his election have on the black community. both positives and negatives.

[spanone]

36. if this were an intellectual article on obama's presidency it might have been titled:

'will an obama presidency hurt or help blacks?' that would have been a fair headline


please point out the positives of an obama win in the article. i found none

[LWolf]

72. I read it.

I think it makes a valid point; a point that will be valid no matter who the first black president is, and no matter when that president is elected.

The civil rights movement won some victories and moved us forward. Did it end racism, or racial disparities? Unequivocally NO. It DID, though, leave the white nation with a willingness to minimize racial issues as a priority.

In my opinion.

I think it is a good thing to be aware of the possibility that this pattern will play out again.

[AlCzervik]

34. Is the writer just assuming that all black americans expect that Obama will fix all

the race problems in this country? I read the whole thing and imo that's a might big leap of them to make, the writer that is and i don't know anyone black or white that thinks an Obama presidency will fix everything.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

35. no, but that white people will think that racism is now cured. nt

[TNOE]

41. Not this white person.

That's just ridiculous. What will perhaps "cure" racism though is all the young new voters coming up who could care less about race and they don't know what the big deal is - it isn't even an issue to them. As the older racist voters die off - racism will die.

Jon Stewart had an excellent piece on this last night. One fo their black comedians went to Florida to a retirement center with the "older Jewish voters" and they pretty much said it - they won't vote for a black guy. So be it.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

42. so just because you wont, you dont think others will. you dont think this is going

to come up?

[TNOE]

45. For a minority

not the majority. I think it was hardly worth mentioning - and I also still think its talking down to people like they don't have a brain in their head. Now maybe the low information Bush voters would find this article more fuel for the fire - but I would say the majority will have the same reaction that many of us here have. Just more media fear mongering and bullshit. Say anything to tear the man and his chances down.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

48. it wont be. racism doesnt exist in a small number. racism+classism

exists in a large majority of the population.

[libnnc]

53. can we at least get the man elected first?

And then deal with this?

Would be nice.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

55. there is no dealing with this. people need to exercise their intellect

between elections as well.

[libnnc]

56. you assume that CNN won't use this as a negative against Obama

I don't trust them to use this intellectual argument in a constructive way. It's just another grenade in their "concern" arsenal.


Get the man elected first.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

58. academincs who are not the CNN have been discussing this much longer.

[libnnc]

60. that's great. But do you trust CNN to deliver that message?

I don't.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

61. the reporter who wrote that piece, wrote it well.

the title was sensationalized but the article itself wasnt bad at all

[libnnc]

51. Not all of us are that stupid. n/t

[La Lioness Priyanka]

52. the article wasnt directed towards the ones who werent.

[LiberalFighter]

46. Could an Obama victory hurt CNN's credibility?

Oh wait... CNN doesn't have any.

[DailyGrind51]

49. Could a McCain victory hurt senior citizens?

[spanone]

50. we need an intellectual conversation about that

[intheflow]

68. Absolutely!

Once he's elected, everyone will think all senior citizens are living off their spouse's inheritance. No more need for social security!
/sarcasm

[fishwax]

65. It's clearly an issue worth discussing

It's certainly true, in my opinion, that an Obama inauguration would be a proud and important day for our country, but it won't be the end of racism. Still, there is no doubt that conservatives will use the fact of his election as evidence of exactly that.

This doesn't mean, of course, that we shouldn't elect Obama--just that we need to prepare ourselves for how his election will change the conversation and how it might be used to undermine, rather than advance, progress towards true social justice.

I can understand taking issue with the headline, which doesn't really capture the nuance of the article itself, but dismissing the discussion is absurd.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

66. its not just conservatives. lots of liberals dont understand how race works

in conjunction to socioeconomical class etc

and yes, none of this means that black people or any people will do better under mccain

[fishwax]

67. yes, absolutely true--thanks for pointing that out

:thumbsup:

[NNN0LHI]

69. Some interesting responses to this thread

[treestar]

73. Don't white Americans do that already?

They can never understand, so what's going to be the difference now?

we should ignore all the race baiting bullshit. After Obama is elected, it will get worse. The M$M will still be conservative-owned and will bring this up every week with everything President Obama does. We have to learn to ignore them and quit letting them set the agenda and frame the issues.

It's a way to split the working class into racial division and get the whites to think the Democrats will harm them and favor the blacks. Pure and simple, quit allowing it to work. The working class should be united, regardless of race. And including Hispanics and anybody else. That makes a Democratic majority.

The repukes have gotten as far as they have by exploiting this. As JP Morgan said: "The working class? I am not afraid of the working class. I can pay half the working class to kill the other half."