"Doubts about anthrax story"

[suffragette]

"Survivors, relatives wonder if dead scientist was truly the culprit"
http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/nation/bal-te.anthrax05aug05,0,7051572.story

"I don't know whether this is the right person or not," said Maureen Stevens, the widow of Robert Stevens, a photo editor at the Sun, a supermarket tabloid, who was the first killed in the fall 2001 attacks. Stevens said she has gone to Washington twice before for meetings, but nothing came of them. She said she received an e-mail from the FBI informing her of this week's meeting.
"I don't know if we'll hear anything from them that will convince me that they've gotten to the bottom of it," Stevens said.

"I think he's a convenient fall guy. They can say, 'OK, we found him, case closed, we're going home,'" said Dr. Kenneth W. Hedlund, the former chief of bacteriology at Fort Detrick who hired Ivins. "The FBI apparently applied a lot of pressure to all the investigators there , and they found the weakest link."

David Hose, 65, contracted anthrax while working at a mail facility in Sterling, Va. He said he didn't believe Ivins was responsible for the attacks, nor does he have any faith in the FBI's ability to close the case.

"They just mumble and bumble around," he said. "It's like a TV show.

The questioning is growing. People aren't buying what they're being sold as readily as they did a few years ago. This is what comes of lying to people repeatedly.

[Ganja Ninja]

1. Apparently Bradblog is saying that Ivins was a registered Dem.

Just heard on Stephanie Miller.

[suffragette]

3. And raises the good question of why a Democrat would

send the anthrax only to Democrats.

Of course, if you only look at the mainstream articles, you'd never know that important point since they never bring it up. The articles I've seen all just note that the letters were sent to Congress, never distinguishing that they were specifically sent to Democrats.

[Ganja Ninja]

5. Exactly! Why would a Democrat sent Anthrax to Democrats only?

Doesn't pass the smell test.

[Vanje]

6. and why in the would Ivins send Anthrax to a tabloid reporter in florida ?

Why?

WHY?

Makes no sense at all.

[Mabus]

25. An old CNN article from 2001: "FBI: Hijacker-anthrax link coincidental"

:tinfoilhat:

FBI: Hijacker-anthrax link coincidental

October 15, 2001 Posted: 11:42 AM EDT (1542 GMT)


BOCA RATON, Florida (CNN) -- In what the FBI calls a strange coincidence, two apartments used by suspected hijackers named in the September 11 terrorist attacks were rented to them by a real estate agent married to the editor of the tabloid newspaper where an employee died from anthrax.

The FBI said there is nothing, however, to link the apartments to the anthrax outbreak.

FBI spokeswoman Judy Orihuela told CNN, "We consider this to be a strange coincidence. We have nothing more to go on. We cannot tie this apartment to the anthrax."

The Miami Herald identified the real estate agent as Gloria Irish, wife of Michael Irish, who is editor of The Sun. Sun photo editor Bob Stevens died from inhalation anthrax. At least two other people in the American Media Inc. headquarters building were exposed to anthrax, and others are being tested.

more at: http://archives.cnn.com/2001/HEALTH/conditions/10/15/anthrax.hijackers/

:tinfoilhat:

[Supersedeas]

2. Soon, we may see what kind of 'salesman' OUR Attorney General is

[screembloodymurder]

4. This says it all.

"It was not an interview," Byrne said. "It was a frank attempt at intimidation."

Byrne said he believed Ivins was singled out partly because of his personal weaknesses.

"If they had real evidence on him, why did they not just arrest him?"

[suffragette]

7. Yes and that's about the intimidation of Ivins' daughter

I think as this goes on we're likely to hear more about how the FBI intimidated and harassed the people it questioned.

[Sequoia]

8. Personal weaknesses?

[Mabus]

9. They are claiming that Ivins had a PO Box

where he received pictures of blindfolded women. You know, because you put this together with what "theripist" Duley said about him being a revenge killer-type, who didn't like slights especially from women, and there you go!


Which reminds me. This is must be why he sent anthrax to all those women in Congress and the media. Yep. Nothing to see here. Case closed. Move along!
:sarcasm:

[Sequoia]

12. Okay, I'm moving along!!

[Mabus]

21. Hopefully the media will find out about a missing/kidnapped blond

and the rest of America will move on and not ask questions too.

[Sequoia]

23. Or the Brangelina Twins update.

[Mabus]

26. Damn

I've got to stop listening to Steph and Thom Hartmann and start watching tv again. I'm missing all the important news. :banghead:

[suffragette]

18. Reminds me of the Kent State shootings

If I recall correctly, after the killings Nixon's administration spread vicious rumors about the victims, particularly one or both of the girls as to their sexual activity and supposed diseases. Of course, they coulnd't counter these since they were dead.

[Mabus]

20. Which brings up the Morality Tale

If they had been good girls, instead of diseased sluts, they wouldn't have died. Morality tale: Don't have premarital sex or bad things will happen to you.

If Ivins wasn't a secretive sexual pervert he wouldn't have sent that anthrax. Morality tale: Pornography is bad, pollutes your brain and makes you do bad things.

(edited to add "pollutes your brain and makes you do bad things.")

[suffragette]

22. That's exactly what they are trying to construct,

but people aren't buying it, even with the media doing its best to push it.

[Mabus]

24. Maybe I'm being too cynical

but I get a little skeptical when I see all these little things trickling out. Especially when the things trickling out seem to be nothing more than a piling on to the meme that he didn't like/respect women. What does this have to do with whom the victims (mostly men) were? What was his motivation? The press has been more than a little silent on this, which is strange since they love to speculate on so many other things that are far less probable.

Is there any evidence, other than Duley's statement, that he had a revenge-killer mentality? Did he stalk women? How did he treat his female co-workers? Did he have a history that backs up what Duley says? And, isn't a woman, who filed a restraining order against him, more than a little biased in her opinion of what he was a capable of?

[suffragette]

27. It's particularly interesting that the way things are trickling out is exactly

the way the FBI said they didn't want to do this:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/chi-anthrax-evidenceaug04,0,1323855.story

John Miller, an FBI assistant director, declined Sunday to address criticism of the investigation, one of the largest and most costly in bureau history.

"As soon as the legal constraints barring disclosure are removed, we will make public as much information as possible," Miller said in a statement. "We will do that at one time, in one place. We will do that after those who were injured and the families of those who died are briefed, which is only appropriate."

He added, "I don't believe it will be helpful to respond piecemeal to any judgments made by anyone before they know a fuller set of facts."

So they are doing the opposite of what they said should be done.

I think a boatload of skepticism is in order about all this, especially the info from/about Duley. Most of the articles I've seen are printing her hearsay from the audio of the court hearing on the the restraining order. Those accusations oddly weren't questioned at the hearing and are being printed repeatedly without most articles even specifying the audio as the source. Lots of other oddities from that hearing like the one just now being pointed out as sfexpat notes below, that she and I readily caught on Sunday. Do go listen to the audio yourself. That hearing raises more questions than answers, to my mind. And the more people questioning this the better.

Here's a link to my thread about it which has the audio link in the OP:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x3724189

[EFerrari]

10. suffragette, check this out. We nailed it on Sunday.

From Greenwald's excellent run down at the link:

Moreover, this morning's Frederick News Post (doing some of the best reporting in the country on this case) reported that it was FBI agents who told Jean Duley to seek a protective order against Ivins -- the action that then created the record used by most media outlets to depict Ivins as a crazed psychopath.

http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2008/08/05/anthrax/index.html?source=rss&aim=/opinion/greenwald

[suffragette]

11. Someone needs to hire us as an investigative team!

Seriously, that audio needs to be picked apart by a reporter. Glad they are beginning to do this.

[defendandprotect]

14. No wonder Jean Duley is acting like a crazed person . . .. !!

Moreover, this morning's Frederick News Post (doing some of the best reporting in the country on this case) reported that it was FBI agents who told Jean Duley to seek a protective order against Ivins -- the action that then created the record used by most media outlets to depict Ivins as a crazed psychopath.

[FraDon]

31. Creation of false evidence.

Long past time for an Independent Prosecutor.

[EFerrari]

33. I hadn't thought of it in those terms but, you're right.

That's exactly what they did.

[suffragette]

34. Great point!

[ThoughtCriminal]

13. His family needs to step up

Demand an autopsy.
Demand to see the evidence.

Unfortunately, I suspect that tremendous pressure and likely threats are being placed on them.

[defendandprotect]

15. They also need to hire Hatfill's lawyer . . . !!!

[EFerrari]

16. They need a good advocate. Those poor people. n/t

[sattahipdeep]

30. autopsy?

Do we know if he has all the vital organs
to determine cause of death?

[autorank]

17. Great one

The widow and survivor are incisive. Victims want the perp nabbed. They're not going to just
roll over in some Orwellian grave of indifference and accept the latest fall guy, whomever that
might be.

You know where to put this excellent post;)

[suffragette]

19. Thanks for the reminder

I knew I was forgetting something.

oh, and great points you just made!

[MetaTrope]

28. And, uh, what's the point of quoting an anthrax victim on the FBI's efficiency?

Sure he sorts mail, but even if I don't sort mail, I could have said pretty much the same thing.

[suffragette]

32. It speaks to the growing number of people doubting the FBI

story and adds to the demand for actual evidence.

Plus, the next part of the FBI trying to shut the door on this case is the FBI meeting with victims and victims' families to persuade them of the allegations. It's important in that context to note that they aren't buying what the FBI is trying to sell.

[JerseygirlCT]

29. From not a whiff of this in the MSM, I'm seeing it covered even there.

I do think people just aren't buying it this time.