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Anthrax Despite Doc Dump-NO Motive-NO Way To Place Ivins At Scene-No Elimination Of Other Suspects

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kpete Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-06-08 09:58 AM
Original message
Anthrax Despite Doc Dump-NO Motive-NO Way To Place Ivins At Scene-No Elimination Of Other Suspects
Edited on Wed Aug-06-08 10:31 AM by kpete
I guess the way we solve crimes in this country is to confront people in shopping malls to see if the person in question commits suicide as a result.

According to the scientist (Andrews), who said he spent about 80 hours with Ivins to help him recover from his addiction, the FBI agents pressured Ivins’s children, and they were pressuring Ivins in public places. One day in March, when Ivins was at a Frederick mall with his wife and son, the agents confronted the researcher and said, “You killed a bunch of people.” Then they turned to his wife and said, “Do you know he killed people?” according to the scientist. The same week, Ivins angrily told a former colleague that he suspected his therapist was cooperating with the FBI. On March 19, police were called to Ivins’s home and found him unconscious.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/08/05/AR2008080503747.html?hpid=topnews


Now, NPR says DOJ may do a document dump, as soon as today.
VOILA: http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2008-08-06-anthrax-investigation_N.htm?csp=34

But of course, since they aren't closing the investigation, the documents will be selective, meaning we still don't get to assess the larger case.

No motive, no way to place Ivins at the scene of the crime, and no apparent way to eliminate the other people (Fox cited four suspects in March based on an email the FBI also has) http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,342852,00.html who could have committed the crime. So, at least from what we've seen, just circumstantial evidence and a breakdown after badgering from the FBI. I guess the way we solve crimes in this country is to confront people in shopping malls to see if the person in question commits suicide as a result.
http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/08/06/doj-wants-to-have-its-culprit-and-withhold-some-materials-too/
................

This "solved but not really" status really dubious. Here's the AP on the three gaping holes that at least appear to remain in the government's case.
http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5icCsDXbi3Yojuvo5W4j01VxWio0wD92CBJ480

The key to the investigation was an advanced DNA analysis that matched the anthrax that killed five people to a specific batch controlled by Ivins. It is unclear, however, how the FBI eliminated as suspects others in the lab who had access to the anthrax.

And then there's the question of motive. Authorities believe the attacks may have been a twisted effort to test a cure for the toxin. Ivins complained of the limitations of animal testing and shared in a patent for an anthrax vaccine. But for now, it's not clear what, if any, evidence bolsters that theory.

Investigators also can't place Ivins in Princeton, N.J., when the letters were mailed from a mailbox there. And the only explanation for why the married father of two might have made the seven-hour round trip is bizarre.


http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/08/06/doj-wants-to-have-its-culprit-and-withhold-some-materials-too/
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Junkdrawer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-06-08 10:06 AM
Response to Original message
1. Add to that he had no way to weaponize the anthrax...
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zippy890 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-06-08 10:08 AM
Response to Original message
2. WTF with 'solved but not closed"

they -FBI- can be selective about the documents they provide?

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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-06-08 11:43 AM
Response to Reply #2
15. Yes, they can. n/t
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Wickerman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-06-08 10:11 AM
Response to Original message
3. Note to younger DUers. If you are jilted in by a sorority girl
make sure to never disparage the sorority to your therapist. Better yet, keep it all in, never go to therapy.










/sarcasm.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-06-08 10:42 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. Make sure your therapist is a therapist!
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kiranon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-06-08 11:05 AM
Response to Reply #3
9. The USA is the new East Germany. Records kept on everyone.
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glitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-06-08 10:41 AM
Response to Original message
4. The entire Bush apparatus is a sick joke.
Their attempts to appear legitimate don't even appear half-hearted.
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MadrasT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-06-08 10:48 AM
Response to Original message
6. If this were a movie plot...
... it would be slammed for being unrealistic, unbelievable and shallow.

Just sayin'.
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autorank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-06-08 10:57 AM
Response to Original message
7. k*r Excellent. Keep it coming
Edited on Wed Aug-06-08 10:57 AM by autorank
This outstanding contribution and more can be found on

Part II Anthrax, Bruce Ivins Case Research-Resource Thread
Leave a post, offer an interpretation

http://tinyurl.com/5hh38k
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spanone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-06-08 10:59 AM
Response to Original message
8. they are lucky he was killed, they had NO evidence
Edited on Wed Aug-06-08 11:08 AM by spanone
or motive.

otherwise he's one guilty mo-fo
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-06-08 11:29 AM
Response to Reply #8
10. I wish Hatfill's lawyer would work on this. He knows how they move.
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Javaman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-06-08 11:37 AM
Response to Original message
11. Tinfoil hat time!!!
:tinfoilhat:

someone was getting close to the truth, so the feds had to find a scape goat.

They trump up charges on this poor bastard and let him swing in the wind.

all the while they just want this shit to go away, but oddly, their fuck up has only caused more questions to be asked.

funny how that works when incompetent boobs* are in charge.

:tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat:
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arcadian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-06-08 11:38 AM
Response to Original message
12. Who the fuck told the government to start taking cipro?
I'm assuming it wasn't Ivins seeing as how he's a "criminal" and all.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-06-08 07:18 PM
Response to Reply #12
26. No, it was a CIA type, Hauer, iirc, on 9/11. n/t
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Junkdrawer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-06-08 11:40 AM
Response to Original message
13. STILL waiting for the document dump...
Selective as it may be..

Oh, there BETTER be evidence ten levels above what they leaked to far...
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TexasObserver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-06-08 11:41 AM
Response to Original message
14. Next they'll be blaming WTC7 on Ivins.
He made the bridge collapse!!

Ivins personally blew up the levees in New Orleans.
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Junkdrawer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-06-08 11:46 AM
Response to Reply #14
17. Well..he WAS working on an asbestos vaccine...
:tinfoilhat:
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TexasObserver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-06-08 11:56 AM
Response to Reply #17
18. Ivins caused the tsunami in Asia.
He was behind the 15,000 French who died of heat a couple of years ago.

He caused the earthquake in Iran.

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Junkdrawer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-06-08 11:58 AM
Response to Reply #18
19. He sold the words to "Louie, Louie" to the Soviets...
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TexasObserver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-06-08 12:01 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. too funny!!
Did it really say "stick my finger in the ...."?!
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Supersedeas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-06-08 11:46 AM
Response to Original message
16. remain open for a short time to complete "legal and investigatory matters" - WTF Mukasey
http://apnews.myway.com//article/20080806/D92CSB0O0.html

The Justice Department "has a legal and moral obligation to make official statements first to the victims and their families, then the public," Attorney General Michael Mukasey said Tuesday.

Officially, the case will stay open for an undetermined but short period of time. That will allow the government to complete several legal and investigatory matters that need to be wrapped up before it can be closed, the officials said.


What other legal steps need be taken if the JUDGE has ordered you to open the file.
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Supersedeas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-06-08 12:08 PM
Response to Original message
21. MOTIVE - in a missing blonde case: the Network Court TV reports look every way from Sunday --
here, not one question about the political targets of this attack.
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Julius Civitatus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-06-08 12:19 PM
Response to Original message
22. No clear evidence, but they sure investigated Ivins' porn preferences
I wonder how much of that played into the suicide, if they were going to make public his predilection for certain types of pornography, which he kept from his wife. He was allegedly a religious man, Catholic and practicing, and probaably felt already quite a deal of guilt by his porn habits.

I'm sure the threat to make this public (so his friends, relatives, wife and children would know), was an unbearable thought. This, of course, on top to being accused of mass murder, bio-terrorism, and having the investigators harassing his family.

What a mess.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-06-08 12:25 PM
Response to Reply #22
23. We don't even know how recent that was, if any part of it is true.
The FBI cleared out his lab freezer in June according to one of his friends. The friend said that the work of a lifetime was ruined. Imho, *that* is what got to him. When you take away someone's work like that it's like taking a limb or a child.
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MasonJar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-06-08 03:17 PM
Response to Original message
24. From details by others, the anthrax at the lab was not powdered, etc.
This is some egregious error or coverup, probably for Cheney.
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bonito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-06-08 07:16 PM
Response to Original message
25. K&R n/t
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zonmoy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-06-08 07:42 PM
Response to Original message
27. Figure he was just a patsy suicided so that he couldn't answer
fake allegations made about him after his death.
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