I better not see anymore treads about gay Republicans and hypocrisy

[dsc]

After all the people telling us that Edwards' hypocrisy was irrelevent, then so is theirs. You can't have it both ways. If the people complaining about Edwards threads post those threads then it really isn't about hypocrisy but about something else. It is as simple as that.

On edit, to be clear, Edwards said, repeatedly, that gays were too immoral to marry after having this affair.

Here is one link

http://www.washblade.com/blog/index.cfm?blog_id=20243

that is hypocrisy.

[TexasProgresive]

1. You won't from me but

are those the same people making the remarks against the repukes as wanting to grant clemency to Edwards?

[Arctic Dave]

2. I don't recall ever seeing anti adultry

legislation being proposed by the Dems or using it a as wedge(hate) issue. But if I am wrong, please feel free to school me.

[madmusic]

4. Exactly, and for those who are mortified

mortify

Main Entry:
mor·ti·fy Listen to the pronunciation of mortify
Pronunciation:
\ˈmȯr-tə-ˌfī\
Function:
verb
Inflected Form(s):
mor·ti·fied; mor·ti·fy·ing
Etymology:
Middle English mortifien, from Anglo-French mortifier, from Late Latin mortificare, from Latin mort-, mors
Date:
14th century

transitive verb
1obsolete : to destroy the strength, vitality, or functioning of
2: to subdue or deaden (as the body or bodily appetites) especially by abstinence or self-inflicted pain or discomfort
3: to subject to severe and vexing embarrassment : shame
intransitive verb
1: to practice mortification
2: to become necrotic or gangrenous

The only question is if mortified under 1, 2 or 3.

[dsc]

5. Edwards has repeatedly said that gay americans

are too immoral to marry. He did that after he had an affair with a woman who he gave a 6 figure job using campaign funds. yea, that is hypocrisy.

[madmusic]

7. Really? Got a link?

Politicians in general don't like or respect The People and lie and deceive every time they can get away with it. It's ingrained in our culture. Take advertising and the news media for example. The art of manipulation. Nothing more. Maybe the politicians are right.

[dsc]

8. In a word, yes

http://www.washblade.com/blog/index.cfm?blog_id=20243

the video is from the youtube debate. He clearly is quoted as, and admits to, saying that his religious upbringing informs his opposition to gay marriage. He said this a year after he told his wife of the affair.

[cherokeeprogressive]

23. Listened to the video twice. Didn't hear the word "immoral". Care to try again? n/t

[dsc]

26. Just what part of his southern baptist heritage was he using then

seriously. He said My southern baptist heritage is why I oppose gay marriage. No he didn't use the word immoral. Just like those people who don't hire blacks often don't use the word black. We know what they mean and what he meant.

[cherokeeprogressive]

57. "repeatedly said that gay americans were too immoral to marry"

I'm just asking you to back up that remark with proof, rather than what you THINK he meant.

[dsc]

58. fine we were too sinful to marry, is that better

becuase that is surely what he meant by any, not just any reasonable, but any interpretation of those words.

[cherokeeprogressive]

59. Better if you say it is.

I'm not defending the man, in case you weren't sure. My feelings about his actions aren't a secret.

It's a matter of perspectives and we see the same hypocrisy from different angles.

Peace.

[Arctic Dave]

29. Do you have a link?

You have said this in the past and I have not seen a posting with a qoute.

Never mind, I see you changed your post.

[dsc]

30. post 8 in this thread

try reading it is in this very subthread.

[Arctic Dave]

39. I think you are having a disconnect about

calling a person a liar or a hypocrite. Now, did he lie, Yes. Is he a hypocrite, No. Now, if it came out that he was having an affair with a man and wanted to marry him, while not allowing other people to have the same freedom, that would be hypocrisy.

[dsc]

40. You are kidding, right?

He didn't say he was personally opposed to gay marriage due to his own personal moral code. He said he was opposed to gay marriage based on his southern baptist upbringing, an upbringing which also forbids adultery. Following one part of a moral code and dismissing another part of the same moral code is hypocrisy.

[Arctic Dave]

48. You're right ,

vote for republicans next time. They are totally for you. Give Sullivan a call. I guess we should throw in the towel about since Edwards is a hypocrite.

[dsc]

50. Sullivan, for all his many faults, endorsed Obama

and I am voting for him too. But I will call lying hypocrites lying hypocrites. Oh and if you need a link about Sullivan endorsing Obama, try www.andrewsullivan.com , he has been extolling Obama's virtues for nearly 2 years now. If you are going to smear a person by association, you might, just might, wish to actually know what the person you are using to smear actually believes.

[Arctic Dave]

51. Sullivan also couldn't gush enough about *

so I could care less about who he is endorsing, he is a shcmuck of the highest order.

[dsc]

52. gee nice apology

You were flat out gold carat wrong and of course biggoted as well, when you decided to smear me. Turn out, you didn't even know that the person you tried to smear me with, was actually an Obama supporter. I wonder, if Hillary were the nominee and I did this to a black poster using say Clarance Thomas, just what would you call me? You smeared me on the basis of being gay and it was evil. You should be ashamed.

[Arctic Dave]

Get off your cross for a second

and join the rest of us. Like I said, I could care less about who Sullivan endorses, he is a narcissistic douche bag. As for linking you too him, I did that for a reason, you put the word repug in you thread. I only suggested that if you are such a purist, maybe you should give the repugs a shot.
As for being a bigot, Hmmmm, why stop there, why not go full grade school and call me a Nazi?

[dsc]

56. and his being gay had nothing to do with it? really?

Of all the literally millions of Repubicans and thousands of famous ones, you picked, by accident, one of the literal handful of famous gay ones, and chose him to smear? Oh and to top it off, you were cold carot wrong about who he is voting for to boot. There is a word for you, and bigot is it.

[Arctic Dave]

61. Wow, you are dense.

Your own thread had to do with "gay republicans" and politicians in the title. So golly, why in the world would I choose a gay pundit. The reasoning is baffling.
As for said republican bootlicker Sullivan, I was not wrong, I was, am and always will be uninterested in what he says. Just because he can see a winner, doesn't mean he isn't a jack ass.

[humbled_opinion]

49. WOW Some People...

I can't believe you had to go that far in the weeds to make your point... Which, by the way, was crystal from the start.... If this was the sixties and the issue was about skin color instead of sexual preference, well we know 40 years later how wrong we were then maybe it will take another 40 years before people realize how wrong they are now.... PEACE...

[JVS]

3. Oh yeah. What are you going to do about it?

;-)

As one who isn't looking the other way on Edwards, I reserve the right to comment next time a republican cheats on his wife or gets caught performing lewd acts in the restroom. Although there generally isn't much to say in such cases except "HAHA!"

[dsc]

12. I am going to call them what they are

homophobic hypocrites.

[JVS]

55. As long as I can laugh at people when they get caught with their pants down, fine with me.

[Whisp]

6. precious marriage is between a man and how ever many women I need.

anything else is immoral.

that doesn't fly well with me either.
hypo is correct.

[alfredo]

9. It is relevant to him and his family. But it is not our business and we should

butt out. If he was pushing legislation that is harmful to families, then maybe we can have something to say.

Yes we are disappointed, yes we are angry, but the only real damage was done to him, his family, his charities, and his former mistress.

[dsc]

10. He has said, repeatedly, that gay families

aren't real families deserving of being married like straight ones. yes, that is called hypocrisy.

[LostinVA]

16. Yes, and that is definitely anti-family legislation

IT'S THE ONE THING I REALLY DISLIKED ABOUT HIM -- WHAT HE SAID ABOUT GAYS.

[Midlodemocrat]

38. Pfft. He was just worried he'd catch the gay.

:sarcasm:

And, I agree.

[LostinVA]

60. Nice post, Fred Phelps

Oh wait, that's me.

[alfredo]

36. True. I forgot about his pandering to the intolerant right.

[ismnotwasm]

11. Right on

Interesting how, when it's a straight white male how we're supposed to change "standards" regarding hypocrisy.

[nadinbrzezinski]

13. You can tell the difference between committing a crime and a private matter?

Vitter, soliciting sex from a prostitute... still a crime

Craig, again soliciting sex

If this had involved any soliciting you may have a point

If either of those two cases involved similar circumstances... aka no solicitation... then I'd go.. it is their private matter

I also forgot, Foley involved going after MINORS... again a crime

Can you tell the difference?

[dsc]

14. he paid his mistress using campaign funds

that might well be a crime. And Vitter got convicted of nothing nor even charged. We have also had threads telling us Lindsey Grahm is gay, Karl Rove is gay, Rush Limbaugh is gay none of whom broke any sexual law at any time.

[nadinbrzezinski]

18. You do realize WHY Vitter never evah faced the music?

And neither has Foley, never mind that was a WELL DOCUMENTED crime

And as to the mistress... counselor until we have an indictment what you just said is hearsay

And for the moment if FALLS into the private affair territory.. As soon as a grand jury convicts, it enters the territory of those other cases I mentioned, NOT a second before.

[dsc]

19. foley wasn't a crime

While he was an immoral slug he wasn't a criminal. He was smart enough to pick on people above the age of conscent. On edit, I note your lack of addressing Rove, Limbaugh, and Grahm. I wonder why.

[nadinbrzezinski]

21. Because if they are or not is NONE OF MY FUCKING BIDNESS

time Americans, even them, GROW THE FUCK up regarding sex

And yes, what Foley did IS and was a crime.

Oh never mind...

Ever wonder why Europeans laugh at us histerically over things like this? As well as Canadians?

The last sex scandal in the UK was the Profumo Affair, it also involved some criminality... only reason why it became a scandal

[dsc]

24. Not everything sleezy is criminal

the people he IMed were 17 and 18. The only people he had sex with were over 18. The age of conscent in DC is 16. His behavior was creepy and hypocritical. I would argue it maybe should be criminal for an adult boss to send a teen employee those IMs but it isn't yet.

[nadinbrzezinski]

28. He IMed people who were under the age of consent

only reason the DA didn't go after him was who he was

That said he LOST his career in congress... so in a sense was punished

And by the by SOLICITING SEX is still a crime.

And I only care when it involves a crime

So going back to Edwards, when the Grand Jury CONVICTS then it crosses that threshold, until then it is between him, the wife and the kids.... clear enough for you?

[dsc]

31. soliciting sex isn't a crime

if it were, there would be no single bars left. Also grand juries charge, they don't convict. I realize you live in a different country, and thus are less familiar with our laws, but Foley was a dirty sleeze bag who skirted the law.

[nadinbrzezinski]

32. Yeah I live in a different country, called California

ASSume much?

Look Foley was iffy at best

And once again ONCE Mr. Edwards is indicted by a Grand Jury, where this would go, then call me ok

[dsc]

34. I was actually trying to give you the benefit of the doubt

I combined your mentioning of the British sex scandal and your apparent ignorance of which juries do what as your being foreign. sorry won't do so again. Incidently, grand juries indict, they don't convict. A petit jury convicts.

[nadinbrzezinski]

35. Again counselor let me spell this one for you

ONCE THEY GO INTO THE LEGAL SYSTEM CALL ME UNTIL THEN IT IS A PRIVATE AFFAIR

[dsc]

37. I really don't think it is my fault you have repeatedly misspoken

I haven't called you names. I haven't shouted at you. You have been rude, arrogant, and repeatedly wrong. That isn't my fault.

[nadinbrzezinski]

41. Once again, when it goes to the legal system call me, not a second before

and I have not been rude to you. Just stated a fact, UNTIL THIS ENTERS THE LEGAL REALM, this is a PRIVATE MATTER

You were the one making assumptions... that were wrong

I guess knowing what happens OUTSIDE our borders is a no-no

And given the case I mentioned, free clue the Queens legal system is not that different from the American Legal System in the way it works

There are some things I prefer like lawyers who have to work both sides... leads to mostly better representation

And they are more mature and have abolished the death penalty.

But they come from the same tree... going all the way back to Magna Carta... and no... they don't care if a politician had sex outside his or her marriage... unless, this is the great qualifier, UNLESS there was a crime committed.

And for the record, living in California does seem like living in a foreign country at times

[dsc]

42. you aren't being close to consistent in your standards

neither Vitter, nor Foley, reached the legal system. In Foley's case because there wasn't an existing law. In Vitter's because he is likely being protected from a weak but winnable case for a crime that often isn't prosecuted. But under your standard neither of them would be fair game either so you invent a new standard. This one is people I think should be charged but weren't.

[nadinbrzezinski]

44. they both did

but that's ok

Vitter had to face a judge where the charges were dismissed

And Foley was taken to a grand jury... where the DA could not prove much ...

But both entered the legal system

I have another free clue for ya, from having lived in a foreign country.

Most VIPs are NOT held to the same standards you or I are held to by the legal system... EVER... don't believe me? Look at these two

Now Craig was, only because he was stupid enough to admit guilt, if he had not... then it would have been dismissed and the sergeant greatly disciplined.

Yes... we are now living under THOSE standards

But once again, once this enters the legal system... call me, not a second before.

[baldguy]

15. Has Edwards made a career out of trying to put adulterers into concentration camps?

[dsc]

17. No but he sure did say I was too immoral to marry

after he had an affair and put the woman in a 6 figure job for which she wasn't qualified.

[seabeyond]

22. you're just kicking ass

arent you. reading down the thread. i have a real problem with hypocrisy myself. fuck the sex. lol.

[baldguy]

25. But thats precisely why gay Republicans are hypocrites.

They make no apologies for their support for a party that wants to dehumanize them as official policy.

Criticize Edwards for choosing the wrong side of the gay marriage issue - but if he's consistent about it you can't say he's a hypocrite.

[dsc]

27. He had an adulterous affair while saying I am too immoral to marry

on what planet is that not hypocrisy?

[NNN0LHI]

20. Edwards' hypocrisy is not irrelevant but it is comparable to McCains hypocrisy

Party of family values.

Don

[Norrin Radd]

33. I think that both Edwards and those Republicans are hypocrites.

[HughMoran]

43. Make sure you kick his brains down the street while he's down

Don't hold back now!

[dsc]

45. my point ins't about Edwards but about posters who repeatedly told me

that when I complained about them calling Rove gay, I was being overly sensitive and it was all about the hypocrisy. Now some of the very same people are saying it doesn't matter if Edwards was a hypocrit. So which is it?

[HughMoran]

46. Oh, it matters that Edwards was a hypocrite

I'm thankful as can be that he didn't get the nomination!

[gatorboy]

47. Here are some quotes from Edwards on the matter.

http://www.ontheissues.org/2008/John_Edwards_Civil_Rights.htm

On journey about same-sex marriage, but does not support it

Q: You've raised your faith as part of the reason for your opposition to same-sex marriage.
A: I shouldn't have said that, because I believe, to my core, in equality.

Q: If it is not your faith, then what is at the core of that resistance? I know that you said you're on a journey, and I'm curious where and when you might end up on that journey.

A: I can tell you where I am. First of all, I think you deserve to know the truth, and the truth is that my position on same sex marriage has not changed. I do believe strongly in civil unions and the substantive rights that go with that. I believe we desperately need to get rid of DOMA. I think we need to get rid of "don't ask, don't tell." I think we need to get rid of those things. Today I believe in all these other things, but I do not support same sex marriage. All I can tell you is where I am today. That's the best I can do. You deserve to know that from me.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Opposes gay marriage due to his religion; but conflicted

Q: You said your opposition to gay marriage is influenced by your Southern Baptist background. Most Americans agree it was wrong to use religion to justify slavery, segregation, and denying women the vote. So why is it still acceptable to use religion to deny gay Americans their equal rights?
A: I do not believe that's right. I feel enormous personal conflict about this issue. I want to end discrimination. But I personally have been on a journey on this issue. My wife Elizabeth supports gay marriage. I do not. But this is a very, very difficult issue for me.

Q: The question is, why is it OK to cite religious beliefs when talking about why you don't support something?

A: It's not. I mean, I've been asked a personal question, do I personally support gay marriage? The honest answer to that is I don't. But I think it is absolutely wrong, as president, for me to have used that faith basis as a basis for denying anybody their rights, and I will not do that when I'm president.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

No gay marriage, but no discrimination & civil unions

Q: On gay marriage, you said this: "It is because I'm 53 years old. I grew up in a small town in the rural south. I was raised in the Southern Baptist church and so I have a belief system that arises from that. It's part of who I am. I can't make it disappear. I personally feel great conflict about that. I don't know the answer. I wish I did. I think from my perspective it's very easy for me to say, gay civil unions, yes, partnership benefits, yes, but it is something that I struggle with. Do I believe they should have the right to marry? I'm just not there yet." Why not?

A: I think it's from my own personal culture and faith belief. I struggle myself with imposing my faith belief. The question is whether I, as president, should impose my views on gay marriage because I know where it comes from. I'm aware of why I believe what I believe. And I think there is consensus around this idea of no discrimination, partnership benefits, civil unions.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

53. He also condemned Bill Clinton harshly for his affair. nt

[dsc]

54. there is that too

but at least he hadn't had his affair yet.