Pandering to the fundies just isn't going to help I am afraid

[NNN0LHI]

It just encourages the crazies even more by giving them credibility.

What ever happened to the Dems pat answer on religion that it was a personal thing and leave it at that?

I realize Obama is kind of fucked with all the lies about him being a muslim and all but this will still backfire.

I just feel it in the pit of my stomach.

Obama could handle snakes and drink arsenic after he walked on water to prove his faith and it wouldn't do us any good.

We are going to lose more votes than we gain because of this.

Don

[grannie4peace]

1. that's because

the fundies really believe he is the anti-christ....

[Philosoraptor]

2. Christian repubs will never vote for Obama, & they'll never give up the Muslim meme.

[Kermitt Gribble]

3. It never does help,

yet the Dems seem to try it every election. You never see the pukes pander to any left issues and they win a lot of elections percieved as the strong, tough party - I think there is a connection there. Dems need to stand firm on their core issues to rally more registered Dems to come out and vote on election day.

[AllentownJake]

5. Our last two "winners" were Southern Baptist

Who were quite open to talk about their faith. So how does this never help?

Gore and Kerry were never comfortable talking about this and really did an awful job when they tried to articulate it.

I must have missed Dukakis's speech on his faith.

[Vickers]

10. Excellent point.

:thumbsup:

[Kermitt Gribble]

23. I don't think Carter's and Clinton's victories

were a result of their willingness to talk about their faith. Carter was a beneficiary of the Nixon/Ford fiasco, and Clinton benefited from the wonderful effects of reaganomics. These are much more justifiable reasons for their victories than their faith.

The evangelicals' 2 main issues are abortion and gay rights. In their eyes, anyone who supports these 2 issues is not a person of faith, so why even bother pandering to them in the first place?

[AllentownJake]

4. I might have missed something last night after watching it twice

Did Obama change his position on any major policy. Did Obama stand his ground on the issues he believes in? He went to talk to these people. We expect this guy to talk to Iran and N. Korean leaders but we get offended when he talks to political opponents in his own country?

By showing up to a church and saying what you personally believe is now pandering? I hate to break the news to some people on here but Obama is a Christian. He actually believes the words coming out of his own mouth. The religion that is derided and mocked on here alot because a certain brand of the religion is opposed to what we believe in is the religion of our democratic nominee. Christianity is alot bigger than the Fundies.

[stillcool]

6. It's funny how so many are offended..

by a candidate willing to talk to a bunch of Americans about his stance on the issues that are of importance to them. I'm sure McCain will never go into the lions den, and so the only reasoning that follows is that Obama shouldn't either. After all there is no 'we' the people. It is us vs. them.

[stray cat]

9. I suspect many of the offended didn't actually see it - ignorance comes in all political persuasions

[blues90]

12. It was an insane display

I would not vote for either on them just because of this religous dog and donkey show on a corporate owned TV station which made it even more laughable and insane.

I could give a damn if they believe in their religion or not this has no place in politics and does absolutely nothing to solve one single issue this country is faced with , like In god bless america has done a thing other than pat war mongers on the backs as they go off and kill.

A job well done in the making of fools in politics.

[CrispyQ]

13. And some of us believe that the Constitution is bigger than all of us.

"...but no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States."

More & more, religion is being brought into our political discourse & our candidates are judged as to their answers on faith & personal belief. If that is not a religious test, what is?

[magellan]

22. Yeah, but it's so much easier to just label us anti-religion

...and dismiss our concerns. I get the distinct impression from some that the only acceptable attitude is nothing should be allowed to stand between Obama and votes. Sadly that's the same attitude that brought us the 2006 Dem "majority" -- one so weakened by conservative elements it'd be generous to call it counter-productive. Lesson learned? Apparently not. But I'm done arguing about it, because the Dem leadership has ultimate control over how closely they want to affiliate the party with Repub "values" to win elections, and they aren't listening either.

[alarimer]

7. It has NEVER worked

Running to the center is partly why the last few elections have been close enough for them to steal. It will be the same this time. The Democrats are finding ways to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.

[AllentownJake]

11. Bill Clinton cough cough Jimmy Carter cough cough

As opposed to Walter Mondale and Michael Dukakis. Had did staying out in hard left land work out for us than :rofl:

[stray cat]

8. It was definitely more valuable discourse than the CNN debate with Wolf or ABC

the appeal was to moderates watching on TV. I didn't seen any pandering per se by Obama - When did he pander to the audience and go against his beliefs (not your beliefs but his)?

[lonestarnot]

14. five.

[KharmaTrain]

15. It Wasn't To Win Them Over, But To Neutralize Them

Don,

It's no hidden secret the fundies aren't too crazy about Gramps...his support is a mile wide and inch thick. I don't think they'll be filling the church busses on election day like they have in the past 2 elections. Methinks the strategy was to "push" here...not to win votes as much as not to let Gramps get any traction within fundie world.

This was also a shrewd move to play off the egos of the big fundies...look at how Dobson and his ilk are reacting. They see Warren as a threat to their donor base and by Obama appearing, this forum got big time national publicity while Engle's "protest" barely got C-SPAN cameras to show up. Follow the money here and this may have been a gamble well worth taking if it keeps some or many of these zealots at home on election day.

Cheers...

[NNN0LHI]

17. Well hell it was worth starting this thread just to read what you just wrote

I really do feel better now.

Seriously.

Wish I could recommend you post.

Don

[KharmaTrain]

18. My Posts Drop Faster Than A Rex Grossman Flailing Quail

:rofl:

I'm too long winded as it is...

I always appreciate your choice of topics...what makes General Discussion a true clearinghouse of a lot of great thoughts and links.

It's the only way I keep my sanity after watching an hour of corporate media.

Thank you as always...

BTW...a great pic on Bartcop this morning...I had to post it somewhere...



:toast:

[smoogatz]

16. There are in fact about 12% undecided among evangelicals.

That's a couple of million votes. So it's worth taking a shot at them—it costs Obama nothing, and the potential upside is significant. He'd be an idiot not to try. Still, your concern is noted.

[mopinko]

19. this is brand obama. get used to it.

brand obama is sweeping the planet. no matter how many people on du whine about it.
this is who he is, and why people are nuts about him. he talks, he listens, he thinks. then he talks some more. without lying.
this is what people are starving for.
relax.

[TexasObserver]

20. Obama is forcing McCain into an important corner.

He's pretty much forced McCain not to use Ridge or Lieberman, the two guys who could do him the most good in the election for middle voters, for his VP.

By forcing McCain to come out strongly on the abortion, Obama has boxed McCain in. The more McCain fights to preserve the fundie base, the more he alienates those middle voters.

[alfredo]

21. It's just the Evangelicals that will go with McCain, Obama has the

other segments of the religious community. Maybe his change campaign might pull in some of the younger, more socially conscious Evangelicals. Maybe him showing up there and making a very good showing will dispel the myths the Reps have been spreading.