Is Ron Paul a Bad man?

[druidity33]

Really, ...i'm asking if anyone can say for sure. I just met someone tonight who is a fan of his and seemed to really fancy Libertarian ideas too. She seemed like a progressive person and i wonder if that's irreconcilable. I tried to tell her that i thought Ron Paul and his supporters are whack-a-doodles and that Libertarianism is a fantasy wrapped in a deluded riddle, but she wasn't having it.

Anyone got any good links to forward?


C'mon DU, let me see you shine...


:)

[Muttocracy]

1. I dunno, but I'd probably take a Libertarian over a Bush/Cheney neocon

The libertarian might kill you with neglect but the neocon will just kill you outright.

[sam sarrha]

17. Libertarians are worse than anything we've seen yet. everything will be privatized & deregulated

no public schools, all services like fire houses will ne subscription.. all highways will be toll roads, the classes will stratify and you will soon see the biggest Fascist cluster fuck in the history of the world

and the Bortz loonies will immediately take over..

paul writes a good essay.. but he isn't what he pretends to be.. it is an act to dupe people like you who are looking for an alternative to the system.. better just change the system

[saltpoint]

2. I consider him a racist kook.

He never impressed me as an inclusional public servant.

He isn't much good on his feet in debate, judging from the outcome of the GOP debates staged earlier this year.

He is attracting a fierce but statistically insignificant percentage of fans on some college campus, but by a huge differential is going to be buried alive under the Obama victory in November.

[Muttocracy]

5. I do thank him for any McCain votes he pulls away :)

[saltpoint]

6. Agree. He may serve as a useful prop in McCain's demise at the polls.

[druidity33]

10. he won't be on the ballot, will he?

Though maybe he could be an Independence Party candidate, or some such madness....

[Muttocracy]

11. I was thinking write-ins. nt

[Lisa0825]

13. I know a lot of Texas Republicans who plan to write him in.

I don't know any Texans who like McCain, though I assume most will hold their nose and vote for him. Still, I imagine quite a few will vote for Barr or Paul.

[druidity33]

7. he had a newsletter

that apparently involved some racist ranting. But he claims no knowledge of what was written and by whom. He's from Texas, though i can't in my heart fault someone on where they're from... i've had quite enough of Texans lately.
...Though i guess dubya's really from CT.

:shrug:

[saltpoint]

15. Yep. I understand why Dubya might have wanted as far away from

Poppy and Babs as he could get, but the fake cowboy thing just doesn't work.

I'll go to Larry McMurtry on Texas. Never saw anybody write about a place with more know-how and insight and respect than how McMurtry does on Texas.

[BlooInBloo]

3. There's little point in talking to Glinbertarians.... Easier to wait for their house to catch fire..

at which point they'll come around to the good points of having a government astonishingly quickly.

[anonymous171]

4. I like his foreign policy a lot (Non-intervention, no nation building, etc)

But his domestic and economic policy is absolutely atrocious.

[druidity33]

8. anyone got links? nt

[Lisa0825]

9. He's slightly better than a broken clock.

I'm in his district. I have emailed him on a few issues in the past couple years, and he has responded quickly and personally (as in not a form letter). As a Libertarian who only wears the Republican Label because it's Texas, he's not afraid to speak out against Republican policies like the war, the foreign ports deal etc. His speech Neo-Conned is terrific! However, as a Libertarian, he's also chock full of crazy, such as wanting to do away with public education. He's known as Dr No because he votes against anything and everything that is tax-funded.

OH, BTW, the one thing he is NOT Libertarian on is choice.... he is stridently anti-abortion.

Here he is at On The Issues: http://www.ontheissues.org/TX/Ron_Paul.htm

[Muttocracy]

12. was ob/gyn his medical specialty? nt

[Lisa0825]

14. He started out as internal medicine, and switched to OB/GYN.

Still, most physicians I know are pro-choice, and most Libertarians I know are pro-choice... just not him.

[TechBear_Seattle]

16. There are libertarians and there are Libertarians. Paul is a Libertarian

Small "l" libertarians are very strongly in favor of personal, individual liberties with the one limitation that the liberties of one individual cannot limit or otherwise impinge on the liberties of other individuals. In general, libertarians oppose drug laws and institutional discrimination and support equal rights for all and a barter based economy.

Large "L" Libertarians endorse the philosophy that "might makes right" and that the people best qualified to be in charge are those who can keep and hold power. As such, they are very strongly in favor of corporate liberties with no limitations. In general, Libertarians support unregulated laissez-faire capitalism and oppose any measures of any kind which place limits on what corporations can and cannot do.

In addition are what I have heard described as "federalist libertarians." These are people who hold that the 10th Amendment prohibits laws and court interpretations which interfere with their perceived right to enslave women, murder gays, lynch "uppity" blacks and round up the Jews and slaughter them. When you hear the phrase "states rights," it is almost certain that it is being spoken by a sexist, homophobic, racist and/or anti-Semitic federalist libertarian.

When you look at Ron Paul's record in the House, with his campaign literature and with the groups working to get him elected, it is very clear that he is a Libertarian with federalist libertarian leanings.

[druidity33]

18. clearer now...

i tried Wiki for a solid description of "libertarian", but it was awful damn confusing. Apparently even (l)ibertarians disagree on who and what they are. You're description is much clearer. Thanks.


:shrug:

go figure...

[DailyGrind51]

19. Yeah, that deregulation worked really well for the banking industry?

[Donald Ian Rankin]

20. Libertarianism is what happens when you don't reality-check your policies.

Libertarians have taken a sensible-sounding idea: "personal freedom is good", and developed it into an entire detailed political philosophy; checking their ideas only against that initial principle rather than against the real world.

[druidity33]

25. thank you

that is an excellent distillation of how i feel about Libertarianism. I wasn't able to say it quite so clearly however. I know Ayn Rand gives me headaches.

I remember responding to this person, "but i'm a pragmatist and realist, i can't buy into that". I even remember calling her an "idealist" and saying it with some derision. I must be getting old.

She told me she switched Party affiliations along with a group of others and they managed to get one of theirs seated at the convention...

:shrug:

[Blue_Tires]

21. a nutbar, but at least in this race he can play the role of useful idiot

forward your friend some quotes from the now-infamous "Ron Paul Race Report"

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

22. I wouldn't piss on Ron Paul if he were on fire.

:shrug:

[Sanctified]

23. I agree with Ron on several issues. Mainly end the war in Iraq right now and Legalization of drugs.

Other than that he is not really the candidate for me.

[musette_sf]

24. yes, he is

because he believes that women are second-class citizens that do not deserve the Constitutional right to privacy.

he makes me sick :puke:

he makes me angry :mad:

yes, he is a bad man.

[Naturyl]

26. Oh yes, he is a VERY bad man

And American-style "libertarianism" is a VERY bad idea.

Dismantling the entire government is not a "progressive" idea. You're right that it's irreconcilable with progressive values and don't let anyone tell you otherwise.

See my journal for some more information on "libertarianism" and why it's even more dangerous than neo-conservatism.

Sam Sarrha put it better than I can:

no public schools, all services like fire houses will ne subscription.. all highways will be toll roads, the classes will stratify and you will soon see the biggest Fascist cluster fuck in the history of the world