I don't have a problem with Christians till they become jerks.

[Philosoraptor]

I give everybody an equal break, live and let live is my motto, and I hold dear the concept of freedom of religion in America. I don't care if you are a believer, or a non believer, as long as we all play nice.

It isn't until some Christians get pushy and nasty that I get mad. And there are millions of Christians who've become total assholes with their zealotry and radicalism, and they all seem to be republicans. And when they try to take over my government, well, they have a fight on their hands.

Let's face it, most Christians are wonderful people, like 90% of them, but the 10 per centers make them all look bad, and they endanger us all.

[elshiva]

1. Truth.

My mom is a Christian who doesn't believe in going door to door or judging people at all. She's pro-gay and a Democrat.

[Philosoraptor]

2. My parents are life long Democrats AND born agains.

[elshiva]

4. My mom has only voted Democrat her whole life.

She is an Episcopalian and for gay marriage in her denomination.

[CreekDog]

3. some are jerks beforehand

just saying. :eyes:

[elshiva]

5. Yes, jerks come in all kinds...

[GreenPartyVoter]

35. ** comes to mind. Not that I'm juding or anything

[DrDan]

6. why single out Christians . . . isn't that also true for any group of people?

bowlers, Albanians, supporters-of-certain-political-candidates?

[Philosoraptor]

7. Because they are trying to take over my government.

[elshiva]

8. True, but a certain kind of Christianity.

Not mom's loving, pro-gay, pro-woman, kind of faith, but fundie power hungry bullshit...

[DrDan]

41. as are supporters of certain political candidates

and bowlers.

[asteroid2003QQ47]

9. Perhaps the "Christians" you like are "Cafeteria...

Christians" and not really Christians at all?

[Philosoraptor]

10. All one has to do is claim to be a Christian, no one ever has to prove it.

[asteroid2003QQ47]

12. So what you are saying is...

that one who picks and chooses which of Christ's teachings to follow,
therefore NOT putting Him first in their life, is never-the-less a Christian?

Help me out here . . . anybody?

[Bill McBlueState]

18. yes, a Christian is anyone who answers "Christian"

when asked "What religion are you?"

Any more specific criteria would require secular people to pick a side in a theological debate, since there's very little uniformity of belief among the various Christian sects.

[asteroid2003QQ47]

25. Scripture dictates otherwise, does it not?

http://www.apuritansmind.com/ChristianWalk/AreYouATrueChristian.htm

[fishwax]

32. that depends on who you ask

not all Christians believe the bible is inerrant and/or infallible.

[RainDog]

34. that site proves Christianity is based upon a lie

quote:

The Scriptures tell us plainly that we obtained a bad record long before we had any personal existence upon the earth: "Through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned" (Romans 5:12).

When did the "all" sin? We all sinned in Adam. He was appointed by God to represent all of the human race. When he sinned, we sinned in him and fell with him in his first transgression. That is why the apostle Paul writes in 1 Corinthians 15:22, "For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive." Man was created without sin in the Garden of Eden; but from the moment Adam sinned, we too were charged with guilt. We fell in him in his first transgression and we are part of a race that is under condemnation.

Since the geologic records proves beyond any reasonable doubt that the story of Adam is allegorical or metaphorical, not literal. He was not the "first man" who named all animals. Eve was NOT created from Adam's rib to be "under him." Humans were created by the process of evolution. We were not created "in sin" because nature does not operate under the categories of morals created by humans. Nature operates under the rules of cause and effect that are created by the physically measurable world. There is no "hocus pocus" about this.

Paul was a misogynist asshole whose words cannot be trusted. The bible is a tale, a metaphor for the human condition, but NOT a literal truth-telling document for physical reality.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

44. The "No True Scotsman" fallacy.

Please look it up.

People who say Hitler was not a True Christian are using the No True Scotsman logical fallacy.

http://www.geocities.com/b_r_a_d_99/noscotsman.htm

http://www.logicalfallacies.info/notruescotsman.html

[RainDog]

22. every christian picks and chooses which of Christ's teachings to follow

or rather, does not follow Christ's teachings at all. how many American Christians have given up their mcmansions and given the profits from that to help the poor? (or perhaps, don't build their mcmansions on earth, but rather in heaven -- eewww. heaven as a gated suburb?) how many serve those suffering from AIDS (the closest modern ailment to leprosy, say). how many of them do not judge because then they will be judged on their actions? how many of them separate church and state (i.e. rendering unto Caesar that which is Caesar's and unto God that which is God's?) -- I'll give mainline protestants that one. Fundies? Not much. how many of them refuse to fight ANY state power? -- not just the one under which they live?

The real issue is the Fundies and the Catholic absolutists. Mainline protestants do not share a whole lot with fundies, as far as beliefs, beyond acknowledging Jesus. Fundies think mainline protestants are going to be "left behind" because they weren't fundies. They think this about Catholics, too. Falwell let this be known more than once. I heard this over and over growing up.

Fundie Christians are the problem for this nation, not all Christians.

[Dogtown]

39. That's EXACTLY what we're saying, asteroid2003QQ47

In lieu of any quantifiable indicator, we can only go by the self-identifier as "christian".


Few "christians" actually practice the way you describe, but one "truth" is practically universal: christians often "disown" their fellow-travelers as "not *real* christians".

To us watching the blatant attempts to destroy our country in order to build a theocracy, it's impossible to determine who the label refers to.

The hateful, bible-thumping, repression-oriented christians of the far-right believe *they* are the true christians. If your mythology has been high-jacked, you need to complain to them. *We* hear the "squeaky wheel", and non-interfering christians aren't noticeable.


Perhaps *real* christians need to clean their own house and convince us that you mean us no harm, and that you'll control the wrath of the zealots. I see no evidence of that attitude, just the internecine bickering among various "sects".

[JerseygirlCT]

42. Or perhaps "Cafeteria Christian" is a name cooked up by

those whose own beliefs are so rigid and dependent on outside authority instead of introspection that anyone not adhering to their particular take on what Christianity means are a threat that needs to be dealt with using put-downs.

[elocs]

11. I don't have a problem with anyone until they become jerks.

That includes Democrats and even some here at DU. It is possible for anyone of any group to become a jerk and there are even Democrats who are capable of making us look bad.

[DailyGrind51]

13. I feel the same way about Atheists!

[Philosoraptor]

14. me 2

[DailyGrind51]

40. Once I have dinner with four old friends whom I've know for about 20 years,

two agnostics, one atheist, one conservative Jew, and I'm Catholic and we all get along really well, because none of us tries to cram his belief system down the others' throats. BTW, we ALL support Obama!:dem:

[krabigirl]

33. atheists are trying to take over our government?

[DailyGrind51]

45. Neo-con economic policies are based on Ayn Rand's

"objectivism", Ann Rand was an avowed Athiest.

[cobalt1999]

15. Zealots give any group a bad name.

Most Christians are great people, but the ones out to convert the world are a small but visible group of assholes.

Same goes for Vegetarians/Vegans, most are great, then there is the PETA crowd out to convert the world.

Same goes for even my fellow Atheists. Some feel they have to go out and educate the believers unasked.

[Bill McBlueState]

19. there's one difference, though

In the Christian holy book, it says, "go and make disciples of all nations."

Vegetarians and atheists were given no such commandment.

So when an atheist is pushy, it's easy to explain it as one person going overboard. When a Christian is pushy, you can legitimately wonder whether the belief system itself is to blame.

[truedelphi]

26. That's a very good point.

So the Christians bent on state power want that power not only here at home, but in other nations as well.

The Fundies have set up camp all over Central America and Mexico. And God knows where else as well.

[Hubert Flottz]

16. I root for the Lions...

And I'm skeerd to death of snakes and hypocrites!

If I want to read the Bible I can read it right here at the house.

[raccoon]

17. Rec'd. nt

[CrownPrinceBandar]

20. They're going against the bible.......

Proselytizers are discouraged in the Book of Matthew 6:6

"And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by men. I tell you the truth, they have received their reward in full. But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you."

However, many "pushy" Christians who "witness" to me seem to be doing it for their own benefit. And I always like to point out to those folks, that if there is a Christian God in a Christian Heaven, he/she/it knows the difference between selfless acts and selfish ambition. I find a little knowing Biblical trivia sorts them out.

I have met some folks who are the total opposite of this; folks who are genuinely concerned about the welfare of me eternal soul. I usually thank these folks for their concern, but explain that I'm just not wired like that.

edit: added full passage

[RainDog]

24. They think they have a "great commission"

via Wiki- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Commission

The most familiar version of the Great Commission is depicted in Matthew 28:16-20:

Then the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain where Jesus had told them to go. When they saw him, they worshiped him; but some doubted. Then Jesus came to them and said, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age."(NIV)

This "great commission" is also the reason fundies can agree with Ann Coulter's suggestion to "invade nations and convert them to Christianity."

[CrownPrinceBandar]

28. Yup, you're right........

Its sometimes gives evangelicals carte blanche to act very unchristian-ly in the name of Christianity.

[Highway61]

21. No religion in government...

Period. That fat-ass-ed lying bastard had NO business asking any questions to any candidate. It has not been two days and already he was caught lying between his teeth. He is nothing more than a corporate tool and a leader of "followers" that have been brainwashed by bullshit that spews out of these "leaders" mouths.
Religion is and should be kept private to one's own personal beliefs...not wearing it on your sleeve.
If there is a God.... right now, he/she must be crying. Despicable behavior by he and McCain!

[Donald Ian Rankin]

23. One of those sentences that probably means the opposite of what it says, I fear...

The fact that you single out Christians rather than saying "I don't have a problem with people until they act like jerks" makes me strongly suspect that the message you're trying to convey is actually "I have a problem with Christians", I'm afraid.

[Philosoraptor]

27. Just like 'peace on earth, good will toward men'

[Donald Ian Rankin]

29. I don't think that one means anything at all, in most contexts.

[FKA MNChimpH8R]

30. I am an atheist, but I have no problem with the religious until

they either

1. Approach me uninvited and try to convert me; if they persist after a polite answer of "I am not interested, thank you" I tend to get nasty.

2. Insist that everyone else should live their lives according to their mythological belief system. I tend to get really nasty with these nitwits. Live your life believing what you want and you only limit your own freedom. Try to take mine away and i will fight you like a tiger on meth.

[Growler]

36. I got slapped once...

I was at a bus stop in Seattle, and an elderly (70+) woman approached me to talk about Jesus and whether I was "saved". I'm an atheist, but I wanted to see where she was going with her questions, so I told her I hadn't thought about it much.

She told me it was important because otherwise I would go to Hell....

I told her truthfully that I didn't believe in Hell -- and she gasped and slapped me across the face!

She was ancient and weak as a kitten so it didn't hurt at all, so I just laughed at her and boarded my bus. But seriously, if she had been a young guy, I'd have done more than just return the slap....

[slackmaster]

31. I feel the same way about all humans, dogs, cats, etc.

I like everyone by default, but it doesn't take much abuse to change my opinion of an individual.

[2KS2KHonda]

37. A real Christian will never make an issue out of being one.

The louder they proclaim it, the phonier they are. It never fails. :-)

[cobalt1999]

38. Thre is a reason for that...

"No one is fanatically shouting that the sun is going to rise tomorrow. They know it is going to rise tomorrow. When people are fanatically dedicated to political or religious faiths or any other kinds of dogmas or goals, its always because these dogmas or goals are in doubt."

--- Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance

[Joe Fields]

43. My mother-in-law was a ten percenter. She never judged people, never preached

and led by example. I wish that everyone could be more like she was.