Doesn't universal health care mean paying for people who don't exercise?

[Boojatta]

I created a thread about the idea of chess scholarships and somebody posted to say that it's a bad idea and that Olympic athletes shouldn't get any funding from any level of government in the USA. If Olympic athletes shouldn't get funding to compete, then why should people who don't exercise get funding to treat health problems caused by chronic inactivity?

[soleft]

1. Maybe if people lived in a country that had universal health care

It would create a feeling a good will that would permeate life and raise people's spirits, easing the depression that causes a lot of people to become sedantary.

[tburnsten]

18. Sounds nebulous to me.

I don't think any feeling of goodwill is going to permeate life any time soon, but health care is getting pretty expensive. I am a young guy starting a family and I am not looking forward to adding my very soon to be wife to my plan, it is going to more than triple my monthly payments.

[rebel with a cause]

26. To just add on to your post if I may.

If people lived in a country that had universal health care they would be able to get treatment for physical health issues that prevent them from exercising: treatments that they may not be able to afford otherwise.

There are people who cannot afford the operations or other treatments they need to live an active productive life, so they work at jobs where they sit, many times from their homes, and get through life the best they can.

[waiting for hope]

2. Okay - pay my salary and hire me a nanny -

because that is the only way I would be able to have time to exercise. Wow, just, Wow. What's next, blame it all on people that are too thin as well?

[GreenPartyVoter]

6. And what of families who gamble and have kids even though they _might_ carry on

a genetic illness?

Punish the evil-doers!

:sarcasm:

[thereismore]

3. I can't believe you are assuming that people who do not exercise are inactive.

Maybe they are busy working - hello!? You also seem to miss the fact that non-exercising people are still PEOPLE.

[Kali]

4. what in the hell does one have to do with the other?

[dbonds]

5. You are not really that stupid are you?

[Tangerine LaBamba]

7. Huh?

On what basis are you comparing people who don't exercise with people who train for the Olympics?

Makes no sense.

[Cleita]

8. How old are you?

Of all the dumb posts you put up, this one is the dumbest.

[lapislzi]

9. Yes. Universal health care means just that.

It also means paying for people with AIDS, diabetes, asthma, cancer, high-risk pregnancies, hypertension...and for healthy people to stay healthy and prevent the aforementioned conditions. Get used to it.

[eShirl]

10. I like Boojatta threads

they are like performance art

[Lex]

15. or a logic train wreck

nt

[lonestarnot]

11. Did I just read blithering bullshit or was it just my imagination?

[SteelPenguin]

12. Well there's a bit of a difference between Health Care and Chess

Not receiving a chess scholarship has far fewer everyday impacts than not receiving adequate health care. you can play chess and train for the olympics without any fiscal support (I know a few who have done just this, in fairly expensive sports) however for many people they simply can't receive health care unless we help them. It's not their choice to be uncovered, it's just a financial reality.

Still the argument is actually one we should be able to answer effectively because it's a common attack on Progressive programs and why they're often labeled socialist. Why should we pay for the health care of someone who doesn't take care of themselves in the first place? The first response is many of those people are already recieving health care, and are already raising your costs. Increasing the pool size to include more healthier individuals will continue to cover Sir Blubbery but at a lower cost to you. The second response, is that we should always expect a certain level of corruption in a free society. Someone is always going to not work, not exercise, they're going to glom off welfare. The trick is not to remove welfare or health care, but to offer it to everyone, and then focus on reducing corruption, increasing peoples activities and exercise patterns. Looking at the rare exception as a reason to not help 100 times as many people is not reasonable.

[rebel with a cause]

31. Just a bit of information for you.

The health care that people in financial distress receives from the government does not provide preventive health care and many other services needed for a healthy lifestyle. For example, Medicaid will not pay a dentist for teeth cleaning, partial dentures, or other services some people might need to maintain/regain a healthy mouth/appearance. They will cover you having all your teeth pulled and full dentures, but if you lose your front two teeth then you are just going to accept looking like Gaby Hayes.

There are other preventive services they will not pay for unless/until you need them in critical condition. I have been disabled for quite some time but could not get help until I nearly died twice and am almost completely immobilized now. My health problems, if treated ten years ago would have been manageable and would not have advanced to the point where they are now a death sentence. And why did I not get that care was because ten years ago I lost my job and my health insurance. I worked part time as much as I could to get by for six years. I tried to get help where I could get the treatment I needed, but my caseworker was unable to find anyway to get me the help I needed, and that young woman tried her best to help me. Unable to really even manage part time work anymore, I fell on the charity of my children who were struggling themselves in GWB's financial good times. I only received any benefits from the government two years ago, after suffering two heart failures. Two heart failures that could have been prevented if I had been able to get preventive health care.

[SteelPenguin]

33. Can't argue with any of that

the unhealthy people receiving care already I was refering to are people who are actually on group plans, which inflates the costs for everyone on those, to a certain degree. Only truly large corporations and groups can overcome these cost increases. Small businesses under 50-100 employees will see these increases generally, but it differs state to state.

An additional increase in cost is emergency services, where numerous bills are either waived, or covered by hospital charities. Or they put people on billing schedules which they ignore/avoid, and since they have nothing to repossess, again go unpaid, and generally either sit unpaid, or get settled for far less than the original bill. Etc.

Horrible for everyone involved, but particularly for the uninsured and underinsured.

Everyone in this country should have basic preventative care fully provided for them, along with more comprehensive coverage for when bad things actually happen. We need to work to prevent the same thing that happened to you from happening to ANYONE else.

[rebel with a cause]

38. I agree with everything you just said.

This is one thing that I hope the Democratic party does pull off if they get the White House. I had give up all hope a few years ago, but hope springs eternal for some of us these days.

[LisaM]

13. Not everyone has the luxury to be able to exercise

besides, every time some adrenaline junkie gets injured in an avalanche or gets caught on a mountain overnight, we all pay for the rescue (this is a very frequent occurrence where I live, Seattle). So they're in great shape, but they are using up a lot of society's resources. Do they rate more than people who don't have time to work out?

In fact, one thing I don't like about non-mandated healthcare is that some of these people will be the young, healthy ones who don't think they need it. Then they fall into a crevasse and they're not insured.

[SidDithers]

14. Yes...

it also means paying for people who smoke, or don't eat well, or skydive, or shoot IV drugs.

Universal means universal.

Sid

[FredScuttle]

16. Hey you cripples! Get on the Nautilus!

I don't wanna hear your bitching about "waaah....I'm disabled! I've got chronic knee problems! My arthritis!" Shut the fuck up and go run a mile, Gimpy! :eyes:

[Seeking Serenity]

27. That post reminded of this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hQlVbWXr2E4&NR=1

Jump to 4:00 into it.

[SoCalDem]

17. With 300 million (give or take a few) in the SAME pool

there will ALWAYS be many more healthy people in the pool...and even though they are healthy in part of their lives, they too will someday be ill..or someone in their family will.. It's how insurance is SUPPOSED to work..

For DECADES, no one ever even needed medicine or much medical care in our family, but my husband now has diabetes..were our dollars spent on insurance for all those years, wasted? no because someone ELSE who WAS sick during that time got care, and now it's my husband's "turn"..

That's called sharing:)

BUT when all or most of the premiums paid, go into building huge glass buildings, sponsoring sporting events, making ads to warn against side effects such as explosive diarrhea, paying dividends to stockholders, taking doctors golfing in Scotland and the caribbean, and paying gazillions of dollars to CEOs, it's not hard to see why it's in the interest of the medi-corporations to start internecine "wars" ..

As long as they can keep us all at each other's throats, criticizing weight, lifestyle, etc, they can splinter us enough to make sure nothing ever ruins their little fiefdom.. They laugh at us on their private jets..

[Bigleaf]

19. You mean only people who don't exercise are likely to get catastrophic illnesses like cancer etc.

You better re-think that one.

[GoneOffShore]

20. Uh . . . could you stop eating stuff with HFCS please?

Obviously is affecting you in some very strange ways.

Universal health care = health care for everyone - fat people, thin people, inactive people, active people, young, old, in-between, sick people, well people, crazy people, sane people, fundies, atheists, Scientologists, Muslims, DUers, Freepers (even the ones who live in their mom's basement), poor people, not so poor people, even rich white Republicans.

[DeadEyeDyck]

21. It is just a matter of "From those who can pay- to those who can't"

What is wrong with that? Isn't that what we are fighting for?

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

22. Are you serious?

[Sanctified]

23. I would gladly pay taxes for health care so people can sit on their asses.

Universal health care would cost me less than my current health insurance and be a lot better. I could care less what other people plan on doing with their health care, but I can tell you what I am going to be doing, using it to better my health.

[PA Democrat]

24. Yes, and also paying for people who smoke, people who don't eat all their fruits and vegetables,

people who don't wash their hands often enough, people who drive recklessly, people who jaywalk, people who scuba dive, people who engage in unprotected sex, people who take illegal drugs, people who skydive, people who have stressful jobs, etc.

Where do you draw the line?

[Boojatta]

40. If I'm not mistaken, various kinds of insurance involve various...

premiums (i.e. payments required to maintain coverage) and various deductibles.

For example, people who drive motor vehicles even though they are young adult males usually pay for driving while male with higher automobile premiums.

[man4allcats]

25. And how about those folks who smoke or drink

or choose to live in cities rather than rural areas where air pollution might be less of a problem? And don't forget people who choose to have children knowing that they have a family history of diabetes, hypertension, cancer or heart disease. And what about mental illness? Can't have those rejects breeding! In fact, why have health care for anyone at all? It seems like everyone has faults except for me and you, and I'm beginning to have my doubts about you.

[QueenOfCalifornia]

28. Is this why

you don't have a profile?

I'd want to hide my dumbass too if I were coming up with the kind of OP's you just came up with.

Yes - let's have universal health care except for the people who are gay or IV drug users and have AIDS ---- Or prenatal health care - all of these are preventable conditions.

I notice you are not answering anyone here.

Comparing giving a chess scholarship with keeping someone alive who needs a kidney is a pretty big stretch.

Oh, and BTW - there are lots of chess scholarships... http://www.chess-class.com/scholarships.html

and finally:

[Lex]

29. Been this way for a while for this one.

nt

[Boojatta]

30. "I notice you are not answering anyone here."

I ask that you please be patient at this time. Perhaps it will make you feel better to know that I am in favor of free universal anger management counselling.

[Spike89]

32. Of course it does

As it should. Non universal health care (what we have now) also means paying for these people (and other "high risk" groups) but in a hugely more unfair and inefficient way that has striking social and moral drawbacks. You can pretend that it isn't so, but the truth is everyone will get sick and eventually die--the only real question is will we treat people with respect and compassion or not.

[CANDO]

34. Who says those who exercise don't need health care?

We ALL need and deserve health care coverage.

[killbotfactory]

35. I hope this country isn't stupid enough to pay for other people's healthcare

I would start breaking my legs simply because I don't have to pay a doctor to put a cast on them. Suckers!

[Iggo]

36. Yep. Them, too. (n/t)

[Stop Cornyn]

37. Doesn't universal driver's insurance mean paying for people who talk on cell phones when they drive?

[Canuckistanian]

39. I've heard this bullshit argument for YEARS

I'm Canadian, right? I've had free health care almost all my life. And I DO have a bit of a weight problem.

But without my GOVERNMENT PAID DOCTOR, I'd be in worse shape. He keeps me healthy. Gives me tips on controlling weight. Warns me about the dangers of being overweight. Monitors my blood pressure and checks my cholesterol. And all of that in my annual physical. And guess what? I could go more regularly if I wanted to. Why not? Doesn't cost ME anything.

And yet, I've heard SO MANY people here who say that they can't afford a regular checkup and live in fear of having to go to a doctor for an illness or injury.

So tell me - whose population is more likely to be healthy? Whose population is MORE likely to be educated on the dangers of being overweight?

I'm so SICK of people saying that because our health care is FREE we don't care about our health "because the government will take care of it".