I feel I should only have to work one 40 hour job

[TwixVoy]

Don't get me wrong - I am a hard worker and when I go to work I do the best I possibly can and always have.

That said, I feel that it is BS that more and more people are having to work a second job just to live. I also feel that it is BS that this is considered an acceptable solution to the fact many hard working people put in 40 hours a week and aren't able to survive. I am not talking being able to party every night, but I am talking about the simple ability to work hard 40 hours and being able to live with out having to worry if car break down is going to throw you over the cliff.

To me it is unacceptable to expect people to work 60+ hours a week just to survive.

Sorry just had to rant.

[Kermitt Gribble]

1. 3 jobs is the American Way

according to dumbya.

[lpbk2713]

12. Ironic isn't it.

Dumbya is on record as being the number one President
with more time off for vacation than any other.

[spin]

17. Slavery is alive and well in the U.S. today...

we are all just wage slaves to the big corporations and the financial institutions. The middle class is rapidly disappearing while the rich get richer and the poor get poorer.

Part of our problem is that the rich get elected to office. They all claim to support the little guy, but few have any understanding of what it is like to be poor. The few that do find it hard, if not impossible, to finance their campaigns.

Our country is becoming of the corporations, for the corporations and by the corporations.

The effects of both married partners having to work and in many cases having to work multiple jobs is having a predicable effect on our society. Poverty is up, violence is up, foreclosures are up, gasoline prices are skyrocketing contributing to the problem. Our society is sinking like the Titanic. We waste money and people fighting wars for little or no purpose. We are losing the Constitutional guarantee to privacy and soon our country will turn into a "homeland" similar to Nazi Germany.

I had great hope for the Democratic controlled Congress, but they appear to have accomplished little if anything. Hopefully after the election the Democrats will win control of the Presidency and both houses of Congress. Perhaps then we will see some real change.

But I'm pessimistic and I just can't convince myself that things will change. You just don't mess with the big boys. We are led to believe we live in a representative democracy but who do our elected officials really represent.

[Canuckistanian]

45. "Uniquely American" is how he put it

Not exactly something to brag about, is it?

[Ahpook]

47. Yep.. and don't be one of them vegan bastards

Eat diseased beef cooked on your shitty wal-mart grill. If you don't have the time for that, grab ya some crappy meal at Burger King. Make sure to suck back a gallon of beer that tastes like pond water:)

It's just not the American way to try and take care of yourself:)

[ogneopasno]

2. You're absolutely right.

Here in MN, we have a batshit kooky U.S. representative (Michelle Bachmann) who takes it as a point of personal pride that Minnesotans are some of the "workingest" people in the nation.

"I am so proud to be from the state of Minnesota," Bachmann said at a press conference today. "We're the workingest state in the country, and the reason why we are, we have more people that are working longer hours, we have people that are working two jobs."

[Postman]

3. And this all changes come November when Obama wins, right?

If only it were that easy.

[TwixVoy]

7. Have you even listened to Obamas speeches?

He has said time after time he is going to try to make it so that if you WORK HARD you will BE ABLE to have a decent life. He never said he would just hand it to you, or that nothing would be required of us.

He never said he will fix everything, but he is going to try to make it so that more working people get at least a shot at a decent life. Where as mccain and the republicans will do all they can to keep us down and send everything we have to the people at the top.

[Postman]

38. Words are cheap.

Just what qualifies as "working hard"? Putting in hours upon hours at a barely above minimum wage job at Wal-Mart?

Obama is in favor of "Globalization" and "Free Trade". How does that position stop the bleeding of jobs from the US? How does that create jobs that can provide a "decent life" in the US?

Let's get real here. Obama represents change?

Yeah, he's better than McCain. So what. Just about anyone is better than McCain.

I'll vote for Obama but with no illusions.

[pampango]

50. "Globalization" and "Free Trade" are not black and white issues.

There are positions in between "no borders/free trade" and "build a wall to keep out all foreign products and workers".

Obama is in favor of globalization and free trade to some extent, though much less so than McCain. Obama does represent change from Bush/McCain trade policies, though it may not be as much change as some are looking for.

[Romulox]

66. This is smoke and mirrors. Obama is largely in favor of the EXISTING SYSTEM of "free trade"

which is destroying the middle class way of life.

"Obama is in favor of globalization and free trade to some extent, though much less so than McCain. "

Meaningless. Obama not only supports, but is an enthusiastic supporter of the globalization status quo.

[Hippo_Tron]

59. Nothing about globalization says that jobs at Wal-Mart have to pay minimum wage with no benefits

Obviously Wal-Mart's extensive anti-union tactics make that possible. But two parents working for 40 hours a week at Wal-Mart could in theory be able to support a family if there were actually unions with real bargaining power in the service sector.

I know that's much easier said that done. Obama will at least try to get it done.

[Romulox]

67. This is EXACTLY what globalization means. Wages and working conditions will be equalized globally.

"Obviously Wal-Mart's extensive anti-union tactics make that possible. But two parents working for 40 hours a week at Wal-Mart could in theory be able to support a family if there were actually unions with real bargaining power in the service sector."

I wonder how old you are, because when I was young, it only took one such salary to support a family...

[Hippo_Tron]

80. Yes I know it did, but we live in a culture where both parents work now

And I don't see that changing anytime soon.

[stillcool]

16. nah...it never changes..

hell pretty soon Americans will have to go to Mexico to find jobs. I hope they are treated as they have treated others. That should be a real hoot!

[LanternWaste]

77. Although I doubt "all this changes..."

Although I doubt "all this changes..." when the good Senator assumes the office of Presidency (it's a good sound-bite for you though), I do believe that the change will actually begin.

[mwooldri]

4. Back in the day...

... it was possible for a so-called "traditional family" to send the man out to work whilst the mother stayed at home working in an unpaid capacity raising a family.

In other words, one person working a 40 hour workweek could support a family of four people.

Now it takes me and my wife to work 40 hour + workweeks... and that's just to keep up!

Mark.

[guitar man]

5. sounds like heaven to me

I have a 40 hour job, plus a weekend job, plus whatever I can hustle on the side. Been doing it as long as I can remember. :(

[Ghost in the Machine]

6. That's great... if you have the skills & ability to work at a higher paying job..

I made $1000/wk busting my ass, in the burning hot sun *and* freezing cold wind, as a commercial roofer. Should someone flipping burgers at McDonald's make the same money?

Everyone should be able to make a decent wage, but you first need to understand what "decent wage" is for a specific skill. Each individual needs to strive to do their best to educate themselves even after they're out of school and build a career & life for themselves. Education = Knowledge = Power and/or Money. It's a simple fact of life, really. If you're an adult & have been working at a fast food joint for a couple of years and haven't made management, you're not applying yourself and maybe you *should* be working two jobs to survive...

We all make choices every day and those choices get us where we are in life.

[sandnsea]

10. And when roofers make half that

like they do in many areas of the country, and they don't own their own roofing business in a couple of years, will you say that roofers just made bad choices and need to get a second job? Remember, roofing is one of those illegal immigrant jobs that Americans won't do.

[Ghost in the Machine]

22. Some roofers do make half that... they're called "laborers"...

Why would a roofer have to own his own company after a few years? He could work himself up from a roofing laborer to a lead man to a roofing mechanic or carpenter and up to a foreman or supervisor/superintendant.. just like I did.

"Remember, roofing is one of those illegal immigrant jobs that Americans won't do."

:rofl:

Although I will state, from experience, that a LOT of construction crews have been hurt by the presence of illegals/undocumented workers on jobsites. I've seen them myself. They'll roll up into a sub-division going up and the big boss will talk to the general contractor and pretty much lowball prices. The GC will give them a house to build and they'll show up with 12 to 15 guys and frame a house up in 3 days. The next thing you know, they have 5 crews in there like that and are taking slabs that were supposed to be yours. Of course, 'El Jefe' is making big bucks because he's paying his crew members $40-$50/day each and they work daylight to dark...

I hate to be the one to break it to you, but the workers are exploited by their own in the construction and agricultural work more than they are by corporations or American bosses. (Yeah, I worked in the produce industrry in South Florida for a while too, spent many a day out in the bean, squash & tomato fields, but that's a different story...)

[sandnsea]

39. "workers are exploited by their own"

Yeah, people like you. My point exactly.

[Ghost in the Machine]

44. Thanks for the most ignorant fucking piece of drivel ever disguised as a reply that I've ever read

on this board. Did you have to work extra hard to sound that stupid.. or did it come naturally??

Sorry to burst your bubble, but I'm not a Mexican hiring illegals to work for $40-$50/day, working daylight til dark. That's what I meant about being 'exploited by their own".

It also happens in the bean, squash & tomato fields of Homestead & Florida City, Fla. A 'contractor" will go around to the farmers and tell them he can supply them with enough pickers for his fields at a certain price. The farmer is paying this 'contractor' (more like a 'coyote') a decent amount, but it's the 'contractor' who tells the pickers what he'll pay *them*. The less he pays the pickers, the more that goes into his pocket...

These 'contractors', in both the construction and agriculture industries, are usually working for or are relatives of the 'coyote'. In case you're unclear, the 'coyote' is the person these illegals PAY to get them to this country. Some who can't afford to pay are brought here anyways and work as slaves, or serfs (indentured servants) until their debt is paid off to the 'coyote'. Of course, the coyote also charges them room & board for putting them up and for gas or a ride to work.

I've been around both industries all my life, and I'm familiar with the inner workings of things that aren't discussed out loud very often. Until you have some kind of actual experience in either of these fields it might be wise for you to just read & learn, instead of making asinine comments like the one above...

[TwixVoy]

11. Of course

no one is saying a job specifically aimed at part time high school kids should be making 50K a year.

However, there are plenty of hard working people who have, as you say, "made management" and are still getting shafted.

No one is forcing a company to keep a full time worker on the books either. If there is an employee that is constantly not trying and is a consistent poor performer that doesn't mean everyone that holds his same position should be getting screwed over... it means that person should be let go in favor of someone who IS willing to try for a decent wage with decent benefits.

[Ghost in the Machine]

25. "No one is forcing a company to keep a full time worker on the books either."

"No one is forcing a company to keep a full time worker on the books either. If there is an employee that is constantly not trying and is a consistent poor performer that doesn't mean everyone that holds his same position should be getting screwed over... it means that person should be let go in favor of someone who IS willing to try for a decent wage with decent benefits."

What if they *aren't a poor performer in the task that they're assigned to, but are just perfectly content doing what they're doing and being who they are?

:hi:

[TwixVoy]

32. I have to ask how that would be either common or possible

to be perfectly content at a job that does not provide enough income to meet you basic living needs.

But again, I have never seen a mcdonalds part time job listing that says they will provide for all your basic living needs. The job is LISTED as a part time job. That is the employers way of telling you it is not meant to be anything more than that.

Now if you are, for example, a major retailer and you are listing a FULL TIME department manager job for example, it would be only reasonable to expect that job to at least provide enough income to meet basic living needs.

As I was saying I think I should only have to work one full time job. Never did I say I should be able to work part time as a fry cook at mcdonalds and make good money. Those types of jobs RARELY if EVER provide 40 hours a week. I would be amazed if a fry cook at mcdonalds was getting anywhere near 40 hours regularly a week. (that is a big part of the reason in its self that it isn't a job that provides a living wage)

[Marr]

14. No one should have to work two jobs just to survive.

How about people who just aren't sharp enough to handle a management position at fast food chain, and can't do anything else? Should they be an 80hr/week exploitable labor pool?

No one is saying that fry cooks should be making $200k/year. But if you're working 40 hours each week, you should be able to afford a monthly rent payment and food. I'm amazed to find anyone around here arguing otherwise, frankly.

[Ghost in the Machine]

26. People who just aren't sharp enough probably already realize their limitations..

.. and they know they have to work harder than others to achieve the same goals. Some of them are willing to rise to that challenge, others are perfectly content being drones...

NO ONE should be exploitable, but everyone should realize that not every situation is the same for everyone...

[Marr]

33. What does that mean?

So people who don't have the mental capacity to perform a management role should... metamorphose into people who can perform in a management role?

Whether they're *content* with it or not, some people are going to have to occupy "drone" positions, as you call them. They, too, should be able to feed and shelter themselves with 40 hours of work each week.

[closeupready]

78. Exactly. This kind of "personal responsbillity" bull crap is a GOP talking point.

When Obama comes out in favor of freedom of labor movement, i.e., letting ALL workers cross borders to work, so that if you wanted to go work in Canada or France, there would be no restrictions as part of trade agreements, then fine, you can talk more about that, but I don't think that's even on his plate.

[onethatcares]

15. no one said "flipping burgers at McDs' should make 1K a week"

most entry level jobs are just that, entry level paycheck jobs, they teach showing up, some teach respect for the public, but they all teach that work = $. If someone doesn't get the fact that two years flippin burgers isn't gonna get em an escalade, well, they should go back to school.

One question, on a grand a week, could you save enough to put your kids through a decent state univerity without using a grant/scholarship/or sallymayloan?

I hate to say it but you're sounding like some other people I hear from.

[Ghost in the Machine]

29. If I was still making a grand a week, yes I could afford to send my kids just about anywhere...

...(I was disabled in an accident in 2003.)

Of course that has a lot to do with lifestyle choices, too. I never felt a need to have a big fancy home or new vehicles. I hate making payments on *anything* that I don't have to. I'm just as comfortable living in a 20 year old mobile home as I would be if I was in a $300,000 house. It keeps me cool when it's hot out, warm when it's cold out & dry when it's raining... what more could anyone ask for in a home? My kids know they have no use for $50 jeans and $200 tennis shoes, too... Once again, it's all about choices we make....

[stillcool]

18. would be nice if we could all go to college...

wouldn't it? And do you think those 'managers' make enough to support a family?

[Ghost in the Machine]

30. I think education should be free all the way through University levels

If someone has the desire to learn, they should be able to pursue it all the way. No question about it....

I guess it depends on the area you live in whether those managers make enough to support a family. I have a friend who was a manager of a Waffle House and made 62 grand per year. I have a cousin who manages a mickey d's and makes about 32 grand a year. 32 grand is a lot of money where I live...

[stillcool]

35. wow...not where I live..

is your cousin single?

[Lydia Leftcoast]

68. But in the old days, only teenagers worked what little fast food there was, because there were

plenty of blue collar jobs that a person with a high school diploma or less could get easily.

I spent my grade school years in a town that had two manufacturing companies. The fathers of most of my classmates worked at one or the other. It was highly unusual for a mother to work outside the home, but all the families lived in single-family homes and had a car. Most of the boys in the class assumed that their dad would get them a job at their plant, unless they had other ambitions.

My great uncle was a school janitor, and he owned his own house, had a wife who didn't work outside the home, and put two children through Minnesota state colleges.

The deindustrialization of America has been a great blow to the country's prosperity and morale. Sure, it wasn't so great for women's professional opportunity, but a lot of blue collar women thought it was just fine taking care of the house, since it was more interesting than their husbands' assembly line jobs.

[Lorien]

69. True, but it's kind of a catch 22 situation for white collar jobs

I used to make about $2,500-3000 a week as a commercial artist (in the Clinton economy). For that career I spent 5 1/2 years in two of the Nation's top art schools and six months in an internship. Fortunately I had help with the cost of my education from my parents and from scholarships I had earned. Most Americans probably WON'T get scholarships, and don't have a doctor in their family who can help cover the outrageous cost of a higher education. College needs to become more affordable for decent jobs with decent wages to become more attainable. The public education system also needs to be improved significantly for students to become more capable of earning scholarships. Once again, it takes money to make real money.

[onethatcares]

8. I'm in the same boat,

40 + whatever I can hustle to pay the piper and my wife works 40 in order to at least get some healh insurance. It seems I'm working for the same wage in 2008 that I worked for in 1985, what the hell is going on? Seriously, in construction in 1981, I was grossing 600.00 American a week, now that I'm 30 years older and still working in a construction related field, I'm making 550.00 a week gross. This is in Florida and our homeowners insurance and taxes certainly haven't stayed in the 1980 era.

Rant away.

[leftofthedial]

9. It's kind of like unions never happened, isn't it?

[TwixVoy]

13. Yes

It is tragic.

[hedgehog]

19. Once upon a time 1 person working 1 job could support a family

and even enjoy a week at the lake once a year!

[guruoo]

20. John Chiang

"In July 2008, Schwarzenegger was reported to be planning to "slash the pay of more than 200,000 state workers to the federal minimum of $6.55 per hour," among other measures, due to a lack of an approved state budget.<7> In response, Chiang characterized Schwarzenegger's idea as "a poorly devised strategy to put pressure on the Legislature to enact a budget" and stated that he would continue to pay state workers their full salaries<7>. Chiang claimed that he had "both constitutional and statutory authority" to continue payments and that Schwarzenegger was trying to make Chiang "do something that's improper and illegal"<8>. He received support from the Democratic leadership in the state Senate and Assembly<9>. When Schwarzenegger issued a formal Executive Order, Chiang sent a formal letter to Schwarzenegger "reiterating his position"<10><11>. At a rally of state workers in Los Angeles, Chiang called them "innocent victims of a political struggle"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Chiang_(California_politician)

[NeedleCast]

21. Depends on what Survive means

Does surviving mean just keeping a decent roof over your head and having enough money to buy food, pay your bills, get gas and maybe have a little disposable income left?

Or does it mean all of the above plus a cell phone, internet connection, computer, cable TV...

[goddess40]

23. one word - UNIONS

We need to bring the unions back up to power so they can balance out the extreme power the employers have.

[TwixVoy]

27. Sadly it won't happen

you would be AMAZED how much right wing propaganda has influenced the working poor. Huge numbers of people are now convinced that unions are bad.

[goddess40]

28. Then I guess we can look forward to the loss of the middle class

no more vacation, weekends, 40 hour weeks, OSHA, workers comp, health insurance, minimum wage, overtime..... all brought to us by unions. If we aren't willing to do fight back than we don't deserve to have anything but what the rich are willing to give us.

[Romulox]

72. LOL. Start a "What car do you drive?" thread and see how much support for unions exists on DU! nt

[killbotfactory]

24. This is the arguement put forth by socialists and anarchists 100 years ago

Oh boy, how times have changed.

[pipoman]

31. Labor is supply and demand driven

and our own party leaders have insured that labor willing to work cheaply is plentiful. Our own party has put our companies and producers on an even playing field with third world countries with government owned production facilities with no wage and hour restrictions. Remember this quote,

"Given a fair chance, I know American workers can compete and win in our own hemisphere and throughout the world. Those who believe otherwise underestimate the American people. We still have the most productive workers in the world, and they've gotten more productive in the last 15 or 20 years." Bill Clinton

http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Presidential_Radio_Address_-_6_November_1993

How has that worked out for us?

I will never forget the arm in arm, liplocked support for this plan from both Dems and Thugs...they all bent US workers over, lubed them up, and f.....well you get the picture.

Edit to add definition: More productive = work more hours with less pay.

[Zhade]

62. Fuck him for that remark. Heartless asshole.

NT!

[closeupready]

79. You forgot reduced benefits, higher co-pays, reduced coverage.

:hi: Thanks, Bill Clinton! :) :sarcasm:

[pokercat999]

34. Two jobs or 60 hours at one.

[ileus]

36. I work one job 40hrs, never OT.

Now mind you I haven't bought a 50" plasma or a new Honda, but I'm making my bills and not building up credit card debt.

[KillCapitalism]

37. A much bigger increase in min. wage is needed.

I think min. wage should be at the very least $13/hr. A person could live on that in most places if they budget well.

[pipoman]

48. Unemployment would skyrocket

depending on where in the country you live. Out here in rural areas it takes less money to live than in Cali, NY, Chicago, etc. If you saddle employers here with $13 minimum it would have a very negative effect on our rural economy and the fixed pocketbook of our baby boomer retirees.

As a manager I can tell you that there are many people whose work ethic really doesn't warrant the current minimum wage. My company pays based on performance. I have a dish washer who is making $11 after working only 3 months, she was hired in at $7. OTOH another dish washer is at $7 after over a year and I have thought about cutting her many times. American work ethic is a real problem.

[UnitedVoters]

51. Shame on you paying $7. I wouldn't work hard either. If you don't care why should they?

So your "good" employee is getting $440 a week, or $1760 a month, or a whopping $21,120 a year, all before taxes. Assuming you generously give her 40 hours. Bet you don't pay benefits or healthcare either, and bet you are against single-payer healthcare.

And that unemployment would skyrocket is bullshit. Same crap used 100 years ago to fight the development of Unions.

If work needs to be done people pay the going rate and if we allow the going rate to be $7 an hour or even $11, that's what gets paid. Then when THOSE workers retire (assuming they ever can) they'll get low fixed retirement and the cycle continues.

You are an enabler. PAY A FAIR WAGE and quit whining because people aren't willing to work harder as slaves to you for nothing.

[pipoman]

52. Spoken like someone who truly hasn't a clue

of economics in my area, nor the challenges facing employers, nor me, nor the company I work for, sounds like someone who knows everything already. So here goes for everyone else who doesn't already know everything. The company I work for is a not for profit organization, most of the people we serve are not wealthy, they are on fixed incomes because of age or disability, we play a vital role in helping many people stay out of institutional settings and the ONLY financial motive we strive for is breaking even...NO PROFIT. I started entry level 6 months ago, I now am the manager because of hard work regardless of my income...here is the story if anyone is interested:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=236&topic_id=41536

Dish help is entry level. I put up with late to work, not showing up at all, lame excuses, lack of pride, poor work ethic in general. OTOH some who come in at entry level do come to work on time, don't miss work for silly reasons, and do have pride in their work. These people are accelerated in pay quickly. All are told this when they come to work.

A nice, newer apartment across the street from the restaurant rents for $400 per/month; a mobile home in a nearby park rents for $300.

I am pro labor. The biggest problems with unions which has lead to the demise of unions is 1. trade agreements which not only enable but encourage exportation of jobs...guess who was in favor of these agreements as written? Democratic leaders, Rethuglican leaders, and Union leaders....American workers sure the hell weren't. 2. Job protection for the incompetent provided by unions. 3. Job advancement based on seniority rather than performance forced by unions. Unions could be good if they would act in the best interest of good, responsible workers and admonish/release those who are substandard IMHO. 4. Unfettered access to US job markets by undocumented workers flooding the market with relatively unskilled, cheap labor.

UnitedVoters thinks that people should be paid high wages regardless of their productivity or work ethic and maybe, if they feel like it, they may decide to actually provide good labor.

By the way UnitedVoters, how many employee salaries are you responsible for?

[Ghost in the Machine]

55. You've never owned a business, have you?

This one of the most assholish screeds I've ever read... you should be ashamed of yourself for appearing so fucking stupid. Do you have any idea how many business owners go under, or can't feed their own families, because all their profits are going to pay for YOUR health insurance, when that policy doesn't even cover the owner??

Get a fucking clue, loudmouth...

[UnitedVoters]

65. Yes, I have. And I pay a FAIR WAGE, one that people can live on.

If I couldn't pay a living wage I would shut down. Not much of a business if you have to rely on slaves to run it.

You're the FUCKING LOUDMOUTH. Get off your ass and work for single-payer healthcare because not having to worry about healthcare all the time would help relieve a lot of the financial pressures on both employers and employees.

[Ghost in the Machine]

74. The first thing you need to do is figure out what a "living wage" is in an area...

Learn a little bit about other areas instead of relying on your own narrow world view based on your home area. I was paying my dishwashers $7/hr... and they were lining up for jobs. I had a grill cook who was 58 years old who was working for $9.50/hr and it was the most money he'd ever made in his life. He'd been a cook for over 25 years and was a lifetime resident of this area.

What other people can live on, and what's a decent living wage to them, has nothing to do with what *you* find to be a decent living wage. That might be hard to understand for someone with their head stuck up their ass, though.


Don't you *ever* pretend to know what I do or what I work for, pal. *That's* what makes you look like a blowhard.... but at least you're consistent.

[KillCapitalism]

58. I can see your point.

That's great you've given a $4/hr. raise to one of your dishwashers after only 3 months!

If the min. wage was raised, would significant tax breaks be good enough to offset the increased labor cost? I really believe in giving generous tax breaks to small businesses and businesses who create jobs here in America like you do.

[pipoman]

61. I don't think minimum wage

is a one size fits all proposition. Why should businesses where I'm at have to pay a living wage based on New York economics? It would kill not only many businesses but consumers like mine who are fixed in their incomes, as well as having a negative impact on our local economy as a whole. It would IMHO cause unemployment to go way up here based on the number, $13 which was suggested (double the current rate). The $13 may be quite reasonable (or too low) in some places where rent is $1000+ for minimal housing, I believe it should be based on housing costs. Something like 25% of a 40 hour week = 1 month rent for minimal, livable housing. I don't really think tax breaks should be necessary to meet a living wage payroll. I don't really know what the answer is. I do believe labor is a supply and demand, I don't mind and believe in paying well for productivity. The $11 per hour dish washer gets nearly twice as much accomplished in each hour than the $7 dish washer does, and does it with less supervision.

[depakid]

64. People make that argument whenever minimum wage increases are proposed

And thus far, it's never happened.

[pipoman]

82. It would if minimum wage really meant anything

I doubt you could even find a minimum wage job at all in NYC, Chicago, LA, etc. Why? Because people would starve to death. A national minimum wage must be set considering the most economical cost of living area in the country. By doing this it is basically meaningless in higher cost areas. I have long felt minimum wage as it is today is simply a feel good, without substance. Now if a method for ranking areas in the nation based on cost of living was determined and a scale was set for minimum wage I believe the minimum wage may mean something again. NYC should likely have a $15 minimum wage. Where I live a person could live just as well as the NYC person on $7-8. If businesses were saddled with $15 minimum wage here, there would be many, many businesses fail...thus high unemployment.

[depakid]

84. The minimum wage is about $13.00 American per hour in Australia

and the country has lower unemployment than in the states!

When Oregon upped its minimum wage substantially and indexed it to inflation the sky was supposed to fall. But guess what, unemployment not only didn't spike, it went down over time.

Obviously, certain areas have higher costs of living than others (hence the term living wage) -but on a level playing field, with higher wages there's more purchasing power- so most businesses won't fail and indeed, due to the multiplier effect, many will actually prosper from the increase in disposable income.

[pipoman]

85. Well

the US economy is far different than that of Australia. We cant apply what works in California to Oklahoma and have it work.

I agree with the Oregon example. It is based on Oregon economics, not NY and Nebraska combined. If each state enacted a similar plan based on their economics a higher minimum would work in most states. Again, I go back to living expenses as a base line. If minimal housing costs, say, $500 per/mo in an area, minimum wage should be in the $12.50 range. Rent should be around 25% of income. $12.50 x 40hrs/wk x 4 weeks = $2000 x 25% = $500 average rent. Minimum wage is a joke because it doesn't work, it is an arbitrary number pulled from the collective asses of people who either believe minimal housing means nothing less than 3 bathrooms or minimum of 2 plies of cardboard.

[Selatius]

54. We need to increase radically the size and power of labor unions in America as well.

As long as a private sector exists in the economy, there will always be a need for large labor unions to ensure wages do not fall to unsustainable levels.

Since the Taft-Hartley Act passed against the objections of President Truman, labor union power in America has been decreasing.

Raising the minimum wage will address wage issues towards the lower end of the income ladder, but labor unions address pay gaps throughout the income ladder.

[Hippo_Tron]

60. It should be a living wage based on the cost of living in a particular area

The cost of living in New York City is very different than the cost of living in Boise Idaho.

[The Gunslinger]

40. Amen.

Right on. You have both parents working 3 4 jobs combined, it leaves nothing left for the family.

[Radical Activist]

41. You should only have to work one 30 hour job. n/t

[GOPBasher]

42. Wouldn't *real* "family values" policies promote a 40-hr work-week, so that

parents could spend more time with their kids? The main reason I hate working 7-day weeks, with many 12-hr days (which is what I'm doing right now) is that it takes time away from my kids. To compensate, I work third shift and try to sleep only 4-5 hours, so I have time each day with them.

In short, I agree with you.

[SteelPenguin]

43. Agreeed

you should only have to work 40 hours to collect your paycheck, and also every american who works 40 hours a week should be able to afford to buy healthcare, or have it provided by the goverment

[Naturyl]

46. It's very nearly slavery...

And I am dead-set against economically-coerced work of any kind.

[Canuckistanian]

49. Well, you're not being paid to feel

There are profits to be made.

Now get back to work.

[Selatius]

53. You're a lazy American if you expect to work only 40 hours a week and get benefits/live comfortably.

This is America, where we worship capitalism and the overlords who run the current order of things. If you are not willing to prostrate yourself to the system established by your masters, then you are unfit to be an American. You deserve to live under a bridge without a job. Let someone else who is willing to put in 80 hours a week take your place.

This is America. We live to work. We do not work to live. If you want that, move to Germany or France.

:sarcasm:

[bobafett]

56. Those who want the work, will find work...

Those who don't, will continue self-pacification off the gubment's teets...

No one is forced to work, times change, it sucks for all of us right now.

Now suck it up and get back to work ;)
(lame attempt at sarcasm)

[onethatcares]

57. welcome to DU bobafett

sorry I have to say your remark wasn't as funny as you hoped it would be. Maybe I should run it by the 93,000 Floridians that lost their jobs the past 3 years and see how they feel. What do you think?

[bobafett]

70. go ahead and run it by them...

My statement was tongue in cheek (hence the "lame attempt at sarcasm " and the winkie emoticon, but I stand by what I say: folks who want to work will find their way. When push comes to shove, you go where the work is. Or you don't.

I've always believed that you either stake your claim in the world (what's left of it), or, you become subjected to those who do.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

73. And it even affects the higher income levels

Work-work-work

A newly graduated doctor in a residency: Their shifts had to be LIMITED to 80 hours a week by law in New York, after a highly publicized case in which a sleep-deprived resident's diagnosis and medication led to a young woman's death.

A young attorney trying to make partner had better work at least a 60-hour week and turn in some astronomical amount of billable hours every month.

A young professor not only as to write lecture notes for a whole new slate of classes (If you haven't done it, imagine writing a term paper nine times a week) but is also expected to publish peer-reviewed articles and ideally, a book, by the end of his or her seven-year probationary period.

A public school teacher not only has to teach five or six hours a day, with a different set of students each hour, prepare interesting lessons that will keep the students interested, and grade papers overnight.

[earth mom]

63. We can't make the bills unless my dh gets overtime at his job. Which means he's working

late every day and on one of his days off. Between that and the ebay stuff that I do, we just make it. And this is after my dh FINALLY got what many would consider a great paying job 4 years ago. We have older cars (one paid for, one is almost paid off), no credit cards, can't afford to take vacations and have cut so many corners it ain't funny. If dh was still at his previous job, we would probably be living in our car by now.

[undeterred]

71. Well, what if you felt you should only have to work one job

but they made you work 100 hours and only paid you for 40? And what if you refused to spend 100 hours a week at the workplace? Then you'd be an Obama campaign worker. That's really the way it is.

[Obamanaut]

75. Do you think a farmer would also like a mere 40 hour week? nt

[Romulox]

76. Most white collar workers work more than 40 hours, too...nt

[onethatcares]

81. ya know what,

all you people that think that the 40 hour work week should be abolished and people be allowed to work how ever many hours as they want to, should just do it. Hell, don't take this weekend off, go into wherever you work and push buttons, cut lumber, nail shingles, mechanic, busboy,dishwash,waitstaff, all of it. Just stay the hell away from me. My life is way to important to have you assholes tell me, "You should have to work at least 67 hours a week in order to make a living". Back in the old days, they also said, "You should have to buy your groceries from the company store".

[pipoman]

83. Did I miss something

It doesn't look like the poster was advocating anything you attributed to him/her, simply making a statement of truth that most white collar workers work more than 40 hours per week too...not just blue collar or unskilled labor. Most people don't like having to work more than 40 hours but choose to to maintain the standard of living they wish to have. You are under no obligation to work at all...nobody gives 2 shits and a bag of popcorn what you do, help yourself.

Now go back and re-read the post you responded to, then re-read your post...you sound schizophrenic.