Protesters Have Arrived Outside Pepsi Center

[Hissyspit]

They are kept from the entrance by fences and concrete barriers, but the marchers have arrived, and the police are there and mean business. I saw one heavy armored vehicle and there are police wearing body armor and carrying batons, plastic handcuffs and pepper spray guns. I took many pictures, but Elad and I are going to go ahead and go on to the DU meet-up.

It seems pretty clear that there will be at least some arrests outside the Pepsi Center. I am struck by how young most of the marchers are.

[LSparkle]

1. Who the heck are the protesters? Our candidate is ANTI-WAR ...

This cannot be '68, when the party overrode the votes
of the anti-war majority and nominated a moderate. I
don't understand why anyone would be protesting, unless
they're an "Operation Chaos" devotee ... ????

[C_U_L8R]

2. Exactly... i think they must be in the wrong city

[tama]

23. Really

If you don't understand why somebody is protesting against the double-party of corruption of democracy and corporate fascism, I can only feel sorry to you.

[cali]

26. and I pity you if you actually believe there's no difference

between the two parties. but hell, you believe that we live in the most totalitarian system in history.

[tama]

30. We do

European technocratic industrialism has through various forms of imperialism incorporated practically all cultures on Earth into it's suicidel cancer like behaviour, what is that if not most totalitarian system in history?

And no, there is no difference between the two parties where it matters. Both are mortal enemies of what is decent and humble.

[George II]

39. Please explain what this means:

"And no, there is no difference between the two parties where it matters. Both are mortal enemies of what is decent and humble."

[tama]

44. Glad to be of service

Both parties are fully supporting and furthering the ideology of exponential growth in a limited world. It is not only deeply destructive to all other kinds of life on the planet (other human ways of life indluded) but also blatantly suicidal.

That is where it matters - if one loves life, children and grandchildren included. And here, where it matters, I see hardly nothing but insanely greedy and short sighted egotistic bastards.

[George II]

46. You have said nothing, please try again without the cliches and with specifics, to wit:

"Fully supporting":

"exponential growth in a limited world"
"destructive to all other kinds of life"

WHAT??????

"insanely greedy and short sighted egotistical bastards"

HOW??????

Come on, if you're that passionate (questionably) certainly you can articulate some REAL specific examples, eh?

[tama]

51. Economic growth

And system growing (and wanting to grow) by some percentage is or want's to grow exponentially. Let's say Democrats want 5% economic growth (of US consumption of natural resources of Earth). The doubling time of exponential growth is 70 divided the percentage, so at 5% growth rate the US consumption of Earth resources doubles every 14 years - if the Party is succesfull in keeping it's promises.

No limited system can support unlimited exponential growth - or any kind of unlimited growth, for that matter. Human body cannot sustain unlimited exponential growth based cancer no more than our planet can sustain unlimited exponential growth of the social order of global capitalism or any other growth based ideology.

What really matters is that limits of growth have been surpassed decades ago on planetary scale and still you cannot see beyong politics of growthism, that threaten all the remaining life of our planet.

I know, for most it's too simple to comprehend. Because it's just basic arithmetics and common sense.

[George II]

55. "without the cliches and with specifics", That doesn't do it...sorry

[freedom fighter jh]

64. Take Tama's example of 5% continuous growth per year.

For a population of 1,000,000,000, if there is a growth rate of 5% per year, then after 1 year the population will be 1,051,271,096, after 2 years it will be 1,105,170,918, etc., until after 15 years it will be 2,013,752,707 -- approximately double the original population. This is continuous exponential growth. It is characteristic of continuous exponential growth that time to double is constant, regardless of starting population -- so that the approximately 2,000,000,000 that 1,000,000,000 has become in 15 years will become about 4,000,000,000 in another 15 years. After 50 years it will be about 12,000,000,000.

If a population grows in this manner in a world of finite resources, then sooner or later those resources will run out.

The world's population is growing in this manner. Tama's point, as I understand it, is that policymakers seem fine with an exponentially growing population and do not seem to take into account the finite nature of resources, which is sure to slap the world in the face sooner or later.

[ChazII]

48. Biocracy n/t

[Liberal Gramma]

31. If you feel that way about the Democratic party, why are you here?

[bobbolink]

32. Maybe... just maybe... Because THIS IS STILL AMERICA????

[tama]

45. Good question

I was just wondering the same thing, why am I writing here in this horrible strange language. I'm not even American - or even (Indo)European - but mostly identify with what is called "fourth world" or "indigenous people" as you call us.

I guess I still feel the need to help you the best I can against your destructive suicidalism. Saviour complex caught from you, my dear oppressors, who rape our common Planet.

[Why Syzygy]

53. I can

understand your POV. I recently heard the same thing from an economist. Moyers was interviewing him, I believe. Sorry, don't recall the specific source. Interesting perspective. It's no excuse not to participate on the levels we can and settle for "improvement" if at all possible. We have yet to see how Obama handles the pocketbook. But he cannot in a million years do the damage that Bush has and McSame have/would.

[bobbolink]

58. I assume you also realize that your harsh words are also directed at those of us

who have fought like hell against this murderous regime, and are barely clinging to life ourselves?

[QueenOfCalifornia]

60. So, you admit....

You are a Vulcan.


(Actually, I understand what you are saying and on some level I agree. It is just that, while living here, within this system, I have to vote for who I believe will make more positive choices - and, it is obvious, at least to me, who that person is and it is not McCain.)

[tama]

61. Nano nano! :)

The logic that tells - to anyone observant enough - where the system is going breaks the heart and is nearly impossible to endure. It tells that from perspective wide enough "lesser evil" is no more good enough for any real purpose. I cannot escape the fact that the system is doomed to collapse in near future, living within this system is not a long term option and breaking away from the system and finding independent and healty way of life difficult as hell. Only approach that seems to make any sense is starting to take again baby steps, learning to learn at the pace that works best for each individual.

I thought a lot about the movie "Dances with Wolves" last night... in regards my love-hate relationship with English speakers. Well, tonight I met a Druid who helped me a lot. All the best and strength to endure these impossible times.

[Liberal Gramma]

56. I mean here at DU, not here in America

[bobbolink]

59. I'm very sorry---I didn't realize the constitution of the U.S. had been suspended

here at D.U.

Pardon my ignorance.

:sarcasm:

[Liberal Gramma]

62. You are deliberately misunderstanding me

If someone feels that the Democratic party is evil, why are they posting at DU? Free speech notwithstanding, this is a board for supporters of the Democratic party.

[Why Syzygy]

3. That's what I want to know. Who ARE they? What do they want?

Has anyone seen any MSM coverage on protests? I haven't.

[tazkcmo]

5. Iraq Vets

They are making their voices heard also. They haven't forgotten the Democratic Congress'es role in this war.

[bobbolink]

33. ah, THAT group of rebel-rousing fringe....

:patriot::loveya::patriot::loveya::patriot::loveya::patriot::loveya::patriot::loveya::patriot::loveya:

[Atman]

41. You know how I know the protests are legitimate?

The "MSM" isn't covering it. Must be some serious issues which their bobble heads won't be able to deal with. Keep to the script and no one gets hurt.

.

[Why Syzygy]

54. And according to morning joe ..

the protesters have "bad acid".

[bobbolink]

57. It's very difficult to remain committed to peace in the face of that hatred.

:patriot: for the vets!

[mmonk]

6. Various groups including Iraq Veterans Against the War.

[Jeffersons Ghost]

9. K&R who needs MSMisses when we have Hissyspit's word on it...

this brings back memories:

Artists:Crosby, Stills, Nash (and Young)



Complimentary "Ohio" Ringtone
http://www.sing365.com/music/lyric.nsf/Ohio-lyrics-Crosby-Stills-Nash-and-Young/03695F794D7C52F948256D990023A09C

FOUR DEAD IN OHIO
Tin soldiers and Nixon's comin'.
We're finally on our own.
This summer I hear the drummin'.
Four dead in Ohio.

Gotta get down to it.
Soldiers are gunning us down.
Should have been done long ago.
What if you knew her and
Found her dead on the ground?
How can you run when you know?

Na, na, na, na, na, na, na, na.
Na, na, na, na, na, na, na, na.
Na, na, na, na, na, na, na, na.
Na, na, na, na, na, na, na, na.

Gotta get down to it.
Soldiers are cutting us down.
Should have been done long ago.
What if you knew her and
Found her dead on the ground?
How can you run when you know?

Tin soldiers and Nixon's comin'.
We're finally on our own.
This summer I hear the drummin'.
Four dead in Ohio.
Four dead in Ohio.
Four dead in Ohio.
Four dead in Ohio.
Four dead in Ohio.
Four dead in Ohio.
Four dead in Ohio.
Four dead in Ohio.
Four dead in Ohio.
Four dead in Ohio.

bad memories

[Hissyspit]

13. It's all happening. Screw the MSM.

[Breeze54]

17. M$M coverage of anti-war protestors? Are you kidding me?!

:rofl:

[Why Syzygy]

19. I hope you are not tailgating. nt

[Breeze54]

21. Huh?

:shrug:

[Why Syzygy]

47. You just threw up on one of my posts

then come and post another reply in this thread. So... don't know if I'm being followed.
Don't want to get hurled on again.

[Breeze54]

20. "What do they want?" -- NO WAR IN IRAN, IRAQ & AFGHANISTAN & GEORGIA/RUSSIA!!

:banghead:

[tama]

24. Your sons and daughters

The very best of them.

[George II]

37. They are people without a purpose, without an ideal, who ONLY crave attention!

[IndyOp]

4. Our candidate is not anti-war enough for me -- I would be more likely

to be in the streets tonight than in the convention hall listening to speeches in air-conditioned comfort.

And I will work hard for Obama's election. I just got back from picking up voter reg forms from my volunteer team, in fact.

[marlakay]

7. Its all because there is no draft

i was talking to my husband, we are in our 50's and he was in nam war and saying that no one is in the streets like in our days and we both think its because no draft. If most of america's families not just a select amount had to go thru like we did back then our children dying, hurt and mistreated, tons of people would be out in the streets.

[originalpckelly]

12. Holy mother of God, these are some real wackos.

:sarcasm:

[bobbolink]

34. .

:patriot::applause: :patriot::applause: :patriot::applause: :patriot::applause: :patriot::applause:

[tama]

25. Respect n/t

[George II]

38. That makes no sense whatsoever!

[billyoc]

8. Obama's decision to send more troops to Afghanistan is simply not tolerable to some.

So they're protesting, that's all.

[mmonk]

11. The Iraq veterans are delivering a letter to Obama with their

"three points of unity:" to bring troops home from Iraq, to restore the Iraqi community, and to guarantee complete healthcare to veterans.

[George II]

40. Sounds like the Democratic platform and Obama's ideals!!!!

[mmonk]

50. I think all they want to do is to express and confirm.

Hopefully they will receive the confirmation they seek.

[zeemike]

10. Why all the concern

If I were Obama I would invite the leaders in publicly, and let there voices be heard...that is all they want and it would win over the doubtful.

[Hun Joro]

29. I would love to see him do that. nt

[bobbolink]

35. That would be democratic, wouldn't it?

And not all that difficult, eh?

[deutsey]

14. Iraq Veterans Against the War Stage Demonstrations

http://election411.org/article/id/3527103/iraq-veterans-against-war-stage-demonstrations

Davey D reports live from outside the DNC in the "Freedom Cage," the free speech zone designated by the City of Denver that's nearly a half-mile from where the delegates are in the Pepsi Center. The Coup and Rage Against the Machine put on a concert, after which thousands of people - members of Iraq Vets Against the War and others - marched across downtown Denver.

Davey describes the "Freedom Cage" as a "fenced in playpen" - all the protesters are hemmed in by tall fences and under guard by many mounted police officers.

Over the past few days, Denver police have roughed up and tear-gassed a few protesters, but Davey reports that arrests appear unlikely at tonight's protest.

[Hissyspit]

16. Thanks. We're at Racine's for the meet-up now.

[noamnety]

18. It would certainly make for some stunningly bad press

to tear gas Iraq War veterans who are peace activists at the democratic convention.

It would make for bad press if we had a press, at least.

[Breeze54]

15. He is not clearly anti-war at all....

he said bombing Iran was not off the table... and he wants to get
the troops out in 18 months or so and leave 50,000 of them there!

That isn't exactly anti-war.

[tama]

22. No he's not

Obama has promised full support to military industrial complex of the back of US tax-payers and escalating the war in Afganistan. How does that make him "anti-war"?

[Name removed]

27. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Skwmom]

28. Who picked a pro-war VP. Don't you think some of those Iraq Veterans

are a little leery of politicians after the way politicians have used and abused the military.

I'm just saying you might want to think about it.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

43. Because they buy into the meme "all major parties are the same".

They'll grow up.

[George II]

36. You announce that like it's something to be proud of!

How about those INSIDE the Pepsi Center:

Michelle Obama
Hillary Clinton
Bill Clinton
Bill Richardson
Joe Biden
Ted Kennedy
John Kerry

etc. etc. etc.

It's about time that "democrats" start acting like Democrats and follow these Democrats' example!

[deutsey]

42. Pacifica Radio reporting that IVAW is saying Obama campaign agrees to meet with them.

The protesters are apparently moving away from the Convention Center.

[ChazII]

49. Young? While they may disagree

with us, it beats being apathetic. Just my .02 cents.

[Hissyspit]

52. Of course. My heart is with them, but I am 45 and was expressing my concern that

anyone get hurt in tussles or arrests. I'm sorry I didn't make myself clearer but I'm posting from my mobile phone, so had to keep my post short.

[datasuspect]

63. by "tussles" do you mean police brutality?

you do realize that most major metropolitan police forces have become paramilitary shock troops?