An actual serious question about Palin's youngets child

[Stinky The Clown]

I've posted silly crap about Palin all day.

But this time, Im serious. I have read here and there that the child is Palin's grandchild. The child of her daughter. That Palin claimed it as her own, presumably to counter any scandal. She never told anyone she was pregnant untiul the 7th month. Pictures of her from that time show the world's slimmest pregnant woman.

And so forth.

Is any of this true?

Or is it thus far unsubstantiated rumor and rampant speculation?

[hedgehog]

1. Well, at this point it's ALL unsubstatiated rumor and rampant speculation.

I expect that about a dozen major news outfits are researching this story.

[Stinky The Clown]

6. Here's another theory ......

..... they knew the child had Down Syndrome. They considered aborting. They wrestled with their faith and morality, keeping it secret until they made their decision. (I make this speculative statement with the utmost seriousness and respect. It must be a crushing weight to bear no matter what decision one makes.)

[FloridaJudy]

36. How would they know?

Most ethical OB/GYNs will discourage prenatal testing for women who are vehemently opposed to abortion - why put someone through that sort of risk and expense when she'd continue the pregnancy no matter what? Sure, there can be physical findings on a routine ultrasound that suggest Down Syndrome, but the only way to know for sure would be an amniocentesis, and that's neither a cheap nor a totally risk-free procedure.

Either she didn't know, wasn't as adamantly pro-life as she professes, or her doctor needs a refresher course in medical ethics.

[disgruntled98]

39. It's not that hard to find out. It's an extra chromosome!

And it is the kind of thing they look for because she's 45 and has a good chance of having kids with genetic defects.
<b>Maternal age influences the chances of conceiving a baby with Down syndrome. At maternal age 20 to 24, the probability is one in 1562; at age 35 to 39 the probability is one in 214, and above age 45 the probability is one in 19.<b>

[FloridaJudy]

40. But they'd have to get a sample

Of the baby's DNA to find it, and that's not a simple and benign procedure. As I said, most docs wouldn't put a woman through that if they were sure she wouldn't act on the information. Though maybe they were covering their tails in case of a malpractice suit, but aren't Republicans supposed to be opposed to those? Until they themselves get injured, of course.

[RoadRage]

90. Based on her age...

They would probably do all sorts of tests, and not because she was or wasn't pro-life, but because if they do find many problems, they can do surgery on the fetus before the baby is even born. Heart surgeries in utero are getting more and more common.

So, there would be a lot of reasons to get the baby tested for abnormalities early (20 weeks) so they know if they have anything to fix later.

[Ilsa]

126. The doctors may have explained that amnio is

important in the event the baby needs extensive surgery or other treatment immediately after birth. It is done sometimes in high risk populations just to prepare for the birth.

An amniocentesis performed by a doc that does a lot of them is much less risky than the average would suggest.

[dddem]

127. The answer my doctor gave me was

that if there was something to be concerned about, he wanted the right assistance in the delivery room. BTW I have had 2 healthy children, thankfully, but I questioned amnio, since terminating that pregnancy was not an option for me.
Peace.

[MiniMe]

83. I don't think they struggled until the baby was 7 months

She would have found out earlier. I'm sure at her age they routinely did an amnio on her early on.

[SoCalDem]

129. 10 to 12 weeks is the norm for the amnio

It;s odd though, because sometimes people who are anti-abortion don;t take the test, so they don;t have to test their belliefs..

[YDogg]

2. waiting until seven months along to make the announcement of pregnancy?

http://www.adn.com/front/story/336402.html

[question everything]

30. I wonder whether they did not want to tell anyone because of the possibility

of a Down Syndrome baby and because the thought of aborting him did cross their mind.

Then, what do you say?

[Kitty Herder]

67. Her staff didn't even know?!

How do you hide that from people you work with every day? My sister-in-law has developed a slight tummy (just a little chub) and people keep asking if she's pregnant.

[amerikat]

3. Post the 7th month pregnant pic.

I want to see for myself.

[grasswire]

5. here's the six month picture

posted on another thread here:

[MichiganVote]

10. No way was that woman 6 months pregnant.

[amerikat]

20. Maybe she was sucking the belly in because the fire on the

head of the one she is talking to.

[question everything]

31. Have you actually seen every single pregnant woman to make such a statement?

I was surprised to find out that my dental hygienist was seven months pregnant when I saw her last. She did not show, as she acknowledged it and said that she did not discuss it, at least not with patients. And, no, she does not have a teen ager who was the "real" pregnant one.

As the report say, she is a fit woman, a runner, and did not show.

I think that these rumors are ugly and do not become a campaign that was going to be a different kind of campaign. There are enough issue to debate her.

[KharmaTrain]

35. Many Famous War Stories About Women Pretending To Be Men...

...who were able to bend the gender to look like a young boy soldier. I recall reading of one such woman who was only exposed after she gave birth and that no one had noticed. Now that story could be bullshit, but as others in this thread have stated, not all women carry the same way.

Another thing to consider is that if the child was detected with Downs, it may have also had a very low birth weight. One would think those records would be available...hell, maybe we can find a couple of bored Freepers who have been scowering Senator Obama's birth certificates and see if they want to do some real digging here.

That said, I have a mentally handicapped family member and think there are many other things about this lady to investigate than going down this road. My wife, who now helps me care for this family member was just astonished that not only did this woman not take much time off, if any, after having such a difficult birth...that caring for the child will require a lot of love and attention. And now she wants to transfer the entire family 4,000 miles into the world's biggest fishbowl. That makes one wonder about her common sense.

Cheers...

[colinmom71]

53. Umm, that's about how I looked at 24 weeks/6 months...

And I was not a runner nor particularly a svelte exercizer. It was almost amusing the day my son was born (at 24 weeks in fact) that the security guard in the ER didn't believe I was pregnant when I told the triage nurse I was waiting for the nurse from OB/GYN to escort me upstairs. But hunching over in pain 30 seconds later kinda convinced him...

It also helps Palin in the photo what she's wearing a solid color top that's a bit loose and roomy. That can hide "figure flaws" for many women, pregnant or not...

[readmoreoften]

98. I've known women who didn't show until 7 months. This is nothing.

[Nikia]

4. I don't know for sure, but some pregnant women don't show much

A girl at my high school wore a form fitting dress to prom in May and delivered in July. I'm due in November, but if I dress in certain ways, minimizing my middle area, some people don't know that I'm pregnant. I'm just saying that it is possible for some women not to look pregnant if they don't want to look pregnant. She might have wanted to hide her pregnancy because she thought that it would minimize her politically.

[MichiganVote]

11. I was one of those women but not at 6 and 7 months.

[MelissaB]

54. And not with the 2nd or 3rd child either.

For me, anyway. Things happened a lot faster.

[yardwork]

25. But this was supposedly her fifth child. I showed much earlier with my second than with my first.

By the time a woman has had four children, those stomach muscles are shot, and the fifth pregnancy would show early.

[ColbertWatcher]

38. Your friend doesn't happen to go to Wasilli High, do you? n/t

[hamsterjill]

97. Generally, women show sooner

With subsequent pregnancies. One obstetrician described it to me once as "a balloon that's already been blown up before".

[SoCalDem]

130. yup.. those tight young muscles usually loosen up with each pregnancy

Thats; why so many young girls who diet a lot and exercise fanatically, can get away with hiding it a while..not so much with women who have had babies..and anyway, why the secret? she already HAD the big job.. Maybe they daughter's due date (being the first baby) was hard to pin down, and they neede to wait, so they didn;t have to explain a 45 week pregnancy with a 6 lb baby :rofl:

[thunder rising]

7. when her medical and financial records are vetted we'll see.

[Stinky The Clown]

We're going to get to see her financial records??????????

When? After we see Cindy's??????

Hahahahahahaha.

It'll never fucking happen.

[thunder rising]

13. campaign released a two-page 1040 form from her 2006 return (slate)

The Executives turn over medical records. just like McCain

[Junkdrawer]

8. She flew 11 hours back to Alaska AFTER her water broke?

The details of the birth of Gov Palin's child are ironic, as it leads one to question her pro-life principles. A reasonably intelligent person can determine that Palin was reckless with the life of her unborn child. (Go to www.adn.com, April 22 edition for the fully-disclosed details).

Palin made the decision to travel to Texas to a Governor's conference while 36 weeks pregnant, a time during which obstetricians would tell you it’s foolish to travel via plane. Air travel is a known risk for pregnancy complications, which is indeed what happened. The governor, while on a self-promoting trip to deliver a speech, had premature rupture of fetal membranes: her water broke.

Call your local OB department and ask what to do if you think that your water has broken. You’ll be advised to seek an immediate hands-on examination by an obstetrician. The baby will be placed on a monitor to make sure it’s OK. Premature rupture of membranes can lead to life-threatening infection and premature delivery.

What did Sarah Palin do? She did NOT go to a local hospital and did NOT have her baby checked on a fetal monitor to make sure it was OK. She called her family practice doctor in Alaska for advice. What advice was given isn’t clear, but it’s clearly quoted that she "did not ask for a medical OK to fly". Whether it was OK to fly should be the FIRST question anyone considering traveling by air should have, if they were at all interested in protecting the life of the unborn. Regardless, she decided to give her speech at the conference without having any evaluation other than the long-distance advice of a family practitioner. Her speech was more important to her than making any effort to make sure her unborn child was OK. Then, she decided to fly back to Alaska, an 11-hour trip. In addition, she failed to inform flight personnel that her water had broken.

Airlines are unequipped to handle most emergencies at 30,000 feet, particularly the kind Palin put her unborn child at markedly increased risk for. These emergencies include birthing a premature infant or uncontrolled maternal bleeding. This was her FIFTH pregnancy and delivery can happen rapidly and unexpectedly. The baby or Palin could easily have died.

In the ADN article Palin downplays her decision to fly, implying traveling was reasonable as she wasn't in labor. If so, then why was she immediately hospitalized after returning to Alaska? Why was there an induced delivery of a 36-week infant by 6:30 am soon after her return? Again, ask any OB doctor. Induced delivery of a premature infant ALWAYS indicates a problem. The two most likely would be fetal infection, (a likely event given her failure to seek meaningful medical attention for her baby) or fetal distress by monitor.

Ask your OB doctor if the risks Palin took with the life of her unborn child are risks they would have advised for ANY reason. Then ask yourself whether Palin is truly pro-life, or only pro-Palin.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2008/may/26/sarah-palin-as-mccains-vp

[seabeyond]

9. but we arent suppose to say.... say what? like i had two preg water broke

got ass chewed out cause i jumped in the shower real quick before hitting hospital. yet we are to believe her water broke, she went to meeting, gave her speech and then flew 11 hours

and people have problems cause there are mothers calling bullshit

[Junkdrawer]

12. Three possibilities:

1.) She was really cavalier with her child's health

2.) She tried for a late term abortion the hard way

3.) She got the call her daughter's water broke, so she attended the meeting she came all the way there for and then flew back on the first plane.

[thunder rising]

14. There has to be a picture of that meeting. It was a governor's meeting. They always take pics

[Junkdrawer]

15. At that point she announced her pregnancy. So I would expect...

here to look pregnant either way - fake or real.

[thunder rising]

18. ooops.

[FatDave]

33. Right here

?foo">link to pic

It's very large, so I don't want to put it directly in the post. Front row, second from left.

[anigbrowl]

42. Sure is the smallest pregnancy bump I've ever seen.

I too find it hard to believe it could have been kept secret. But there's just enough to the story to make me wonder.

[barbtries]

45. couldn't tell at all

[kath]

88. THAT pic is from a *National* Governors meeting in late FEBRUARY.

the one where she supposedly went into labor, April 17, was an energy conference in Grapevine Texas, with Gov. Rick Perry and 4 or 5 other Repug governors.

[SoCalDem]

132. The natl meeting in DC was Feb 25.. a few days before/after she told anyone IIRC

This is also from Feb 08

Mom's quite trim-looking there, but the daughter's holding her hands in a position very familiar to anyone who's ever been pregnant

[SoCalDem]

133. It was a private meeting with only 9 governors..

any pics would probably be private ones. I scoured Tx papers and came up empty.

[barbtries]

44. number 3 makes sense to me

giving a speech then taking an 11-hour plane ride AFTER your water broke? and it's your FIFTH kid? nah.

[SoCalDem]

131. Isn;t is funny.. every woman wants to shower and shave her legs before

goinf to the hospital..like anyone there is going to say "did you see those stubbly legs on that lady"? :rofl:

my 3rd child's saga.. (8 months pregnant)

I was babysitting 5 kids..not including my own 5 yr old and 1 yr old when I started gushing blood..and the doctors said get here NOW.. (there was no 911, and an amublance would have taken longer)

I told him about the kids I had asleep upstairs & he said LEAVE EM..

Bless my neighbor's heart, she showed up, finished my baking, took all the kids to her house and left a detailed note for the babysitting co-op moms, so they would know where their kids were..and another neighbor watched the kids at her house so she could drive me to the hospital.. We dispatched 7 sleepy kids, wrote the note, and still got me to the hospital in 15 minutes :)

It was my 2nd abruption, so I knew what to expect..:scared:

[seabeyond]

140. what a story..... but ya

i dont know anyway that walked away from medical attention for hours.....

hey, saw your post in the locked thread. racking up the posts huh. lol. was curious to your number. now i have a challenge

[spanone]

16. it took eleven hours to fly from texas to alaska? they went around the wrong way

[Junkdrawer]

17. I'm guessing it's the total trip time. n/t

[roguevalley]

27. no. it takes that long to fly out. Flying from Alaska to Phoenix one

way took almost seven hours. We subsidizea lot of the short cheap hops down here.

[onenote]

19. 36 weeks? Isn't that nine months?

If she was six months in February and seven months in March, how did she get to be nine months' pregnant in April. It has been reported that the baby was due May 18 and she delivered April 18.

[Junkdrawer]

22. Here's the referenced article...

...

Still, a Sacramento, Calif., obstetrician who is active in the American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists, said when a pregnant woman's water breaks, she should go right to the hospital because of the risk of infection. That's true even if the amniotic fluid simply leaks out, said Dr. Laurie Gregg.

"To us, leaking and broken, we are talking the same thing. We are talking doctor-speak," Gregg said.

Some airlines have policies against pregnant women onboard during the last four weeks of pregnancy, and the American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists advises against flying after 36 weeks.

This was going to be Palin's last flight anyway, her doctor said.

Alaska Airlines has no such rule and leaves the decision to the woman and her doctor, said spokeswoman Caroline Boren. Palin was very pleasant to the gate agents and flight attendants, as always, Boren said.

"The stage of her pregnancy was not apparent by observation. She did not show any signs of distress," Boren said.

Palin never got big with this pregnancy. She said she didn't try to hide it but didn't feel a need to alert the airline, either.

They landed in Anchorage around 10:30 p.m. Thursday and an hour later were at the Mat-Su Regional Medical Center in Wasilla.

...

http://www.adn.com/626/story/382864.html

[shimmergal]

23. Thirty-nine or forty weeks

is the average time for a full-term pregnancy, I think.

I'm not a medically trained person, but this can be looked up many places.

[eomer]

50. 36 weeks = 8.28 months

36 * 7 = 252 days

252 * (12 / 365) = 8.28 months

36 weeks = 8.28 months
38 weeks = 8.75 months
40 weeks = 9.21 months

Bonus for Rent fans:
36 weeks = 362,880 minutes

[tekisui]

78. It was early. It was due mid-May, which lends weight to the

story that she was caught by surprise when she got the call that her daughter was in labor.

[LibDemAlways]

29. Has anyone else here ever heard a story like this?

A pregnant woman's water breaks a month early and instead of getting herself to the nearest hospital she makes a speech, boards a commercial aircraft (telling no one at the airline), and flies eleven hours, most likely with intermediate stops?

If it's true (which I strongly doubt) then I seriously question both her judgment and sanity.

[seabeyond]

56. it is scary having a baby, the whole unknown. i know i needed to know i was in care, for

any circumstance that may arise, the unknown, would/could be taken care of. i can not grasp, understand any woman willing to put herself out of reach of ANY medical care.

there is no story plausible for me

both kids water broke. both kids immediately to hospital. both kids induced

i dont get it

i have not heard one woman who has had babies get it

[LisaL]

68. We all heard about babies being born on planes.

Would airline let her on if it knew her condition?
She is an older woman having a Downs syndrome child. There could have been many complications in this situation. Just a strange situation all together.

[dchill]

108. Sure, "question both her judgment and sanity..."

but first question her veracity. I question all three.

[LibDemAlways]

122. Oh, first and foremost I question her truthfulness.

Because this whole story sounds like a wagonload of bs. However, if it's true, the woman definitely has more than one screw loose.

[knitter4democracy]

57. That's the story that makes me question everything.

My labors were never that long, so water breaking, giving a speech, flying many hours home--none of those sound rational or normal at all when they knew it was a special needs baby and her fifth pregnancy (the more you have, the faster the labors tend to be).

Something's fishy.

[LibDemAlways]

58. No physician caring for a 44-year-old mother who

is experiencing the leaking of amniotic fluid a month before her due date is going to give the go-ahead for her to make a speech and then board an 11 hour flight with no medical personnel aboard. That's just ludicrous. It's something no sane woman would risk.

As SoCal Dem said in another thread, this story "stinks worse than a dead salmon in July."

[knitter4democracy]

64. Absolutely no doctor would.

I just don't think her doctor, if she really was preggers, was involved. Definitely fishy.

[LibDemAlways]

69. I came across this. Apparently she found the one doctor

who's as crazy as she is.

http://www.adn.com/626/story/382864.html

[Junkdrawer]

72. Remember: If she did what we suspect, the doctor would have to be in on it...n/t

[LibDemAlways]

75. True, but the doctor's comments as expressed in the article

make her sound like a nutcase willing to take terrible chances with the health of a pregnant woman and premature baby. Not exactly practicing responsible medicine.

If it was a hoax and she was in on it, she could be in big trouble.

Either way, it's lose/lose for her.

[knitter4democracy]

111. She didn't practice responsible medicine.

She didn't meet the standard of care, plain and simple. Standard of care for a high risk pregnancy is no flying for the last 4-6 weeks (or more) and definitely getting to the hospital as soon as possible after the water breaks. She put the mother and baby at risk and didn't meet the standard of care. She's darn lucky they didn't die.

[MiniMe]

86. Not even a day off of work? After giving birth?

Of course, how is she going to get away with breast feeding him if she hadn't been pregnant? Of course, that is what she said she planned to do, we don't know if that is what she did.

[musette_sf]

96. i love this line from the article

"Alaska Airlines has no such rule and leaves the decision to the woman and her doctor"

so... decision between a woman and her doctor to put her and the fetus' lives at risk on this crazy trip and flight: OKAY.

decision between a woman and her doctor to terminate a pregancy if the fetus' life and/or the life of the mother are at risk: EVIL BAD SINFUL AND I'LL MAKE IT ILLEGAL.

fuck you nutty woman, just fuck you.

[knitter4democracy]

113. I agree with all of that.

She's insane and evil.

[LisaL]

137. It's up to the woman and her doctor?

I doubt airlines like to have their planes emergency land if a woman goes into active labor.
Of course airlines don't ask women if they are pregnant when these women board planes. And apparently no one noticed Palin was in any discomfort during the long flight.

[knitter4democracy]

110. A bad doctor, sorry to say.

An FP doesn't normally do high risk pregnancies, btw. The mother is leaking ammniotic fluid (which gives her 24 hours to get the baby out--longer than that raises a huge risk of infection in the mother and baby that could kill them), says her contractions have changed, and the doctor says it's not really labor?! Oh, I'm sorry, not active labor, which is true in that she hadn't progressed through the first stage yet. Bullshit all around. She should never have gotten on that plane. Period.

[MiniMe]

85. Just the fact that it was her 5th makes it a little implausible

The first one can take forever, but subsequent pregnancies usually come much quicker, especially by the time you get to 5.

[knitter4democracy]

114. Funny story about that from Hubby's med school days.

The mother was having her 7th child and came in with contractions about 5 minutes apart. They paged her resident and Hubby, and the resident came running as fast as he could down the hall, all the way shouting, "Wait!" The mom said she had to pee, and when she did, she caught the baby herself before the resident got to the room.

Yeah, I'm curious about how her labor took so dang long and why the hell her doctor didn't tell her to get her ass to the ER of the nearest big hospital when her water broke.

[SoCalDem]

134. Maybe because

the midwife doctor was at Gramma & Grampy's house delivering Bristol's baby, and they said she better come on home & sign the birth certificate, and then take the baby to the hospital late that night when people were not so likely to be there..

[Dreamer Tatum]

21. It's completely made-up, and was made up here

Doesn't mean I support her, but it's a rumor that was made up here.

It COULD just be that she had an amnio done, as most older pregnant women do, and the
issues were identified, at which point she might have elected to downplay the pregnancy.

That seems more plausible than the other fictional sludge presented here.

[shimmergal]

24. What's the "here" in "made up here?"

It's certainly been carried by the MSM. (giving the speech and then flying home after her water broke). I don't know what you mean by it was made up here. The discussions I've read here are just looking for possible explanations that make sense.

[Turn CO Blue]

28. This has been on some blogs for half a year

so NO, it wasn't made up here on DU). The sources are adn.com and reddit.

Here's the Mahalo timeline on the rumors:
<http://www.mahalo.com/Sarah_Palin_Pregnancy_Rumors>

[medeak]

26. down's syndrome is rare for young mother

baby was born premature. Which made me think she was not eating right after getting news of Down's syndrome and hoping subconsiously for miscarriage as never looked preggers.

[Tansy_Gold]

32. As several DUers, including myself, have posted, WRONG

Downs Syndrome does occur with young mothers, too.

[FloridaJudy]

37. Nope.

While it's true that Down Syndrome is more prevalent in older mothers, there's also a slightly increased risk at the other age extremity: very young mothers.

I worked for over three years providing prenatal care to pregnant teens under a federal grant, and two of my clients had Down Syndrome babies. So it's not all that rare. The majority of Down's babies are born to women in the middle child-bearing years, though. Down's is less prevalent then, but then there are also a lot more pregnancies.

[MattBaggins]

93. Do you have a link for this claim

Not calling you out I just have been googling the hell out of the probability of DS and have not found anything younger than 20 years old for data.

[FloridaJudy]

94. No, I read it years ago

In a medical journal. The slight - emphasis slight - rise in risk for very young mothers wasn't whopping the way it is for older mothers. But compared to mothers in their twenties, moms younger than sixteen had something like a 2% greater chance of having a child with Downs. In both these groups the incidence was rare, but it exists. It stuck in my mind because of the two teens I knew who'd had affected babies.

Most children with Down Syndrome are born to women in their prime child-bearing years (16-35). While the incidence is low then, that's when the vast majority of pregnancies occur, so even a small risk results in a large number of babies with Down Syndrome. Getting pregnant is always a crap shoot, but for women older than 35 the chances of rolling snake eyes go way up. Doesn't mean the rest are always going to win, though.

[WillowTree]

34. Think about it for a minute.

For this nonsense to be true, she would have had to have falsely convinced all those around her that she was pregnant when she really wasn't. And if she was going to do that by padding herself somehow to "look" pregnant, would she not have made the padding more substantial to dispell any questions such as this?

Not only that, but her daughter would have had to have gone to or close to full-term and no one noticed, nor did anyone notice that no one had seen her for at least several days immediately surrounding her mother's slightly early delivery (remember, there are pictures of Palin and her husband with the newborn) . Or she, the daughter of a high profile politician, would have had to have "gone to visit out-of-state relatives" for a couple of months in the middle of the school year, coincidentally spanning the time period when her barely-showing mother suddenly gives birth and no one questioned it at the time.

And there's also the little matter of the Labor & Delivery staff at the hospital where Palin's delivery "supposedly" took place and the office staff of her obstetritian and others, at least a couple of dozen people, as well as all those who would have had to have been involved with the "actual" delivery by the daughter, all of whom would have had to have been in on it and no one said a word to anyone else about it.

It's far-fetched, convoluted stories such as this for which the word "poppycock" was invented.

[disgruntled98]

41. I did see a picture right after the baby was born.

She looked like hell. I think she gave birth. Who will pick up the phone at 3am? This woman will. She'll be up, that kid will keep her up!

[Quantess]

43. I read that Bristol was out of school for a few months for "mono" at the time.

Most incriminating: Staying around to deliver a speech after her water supposedly broke, then spending 11 hours on a plane to Alaska, with a layover in Seattle, before finally getting to the hospital.

Then returning to work 3 days after supposedly giving birth.

[LibDemAlways]

63. My bullshit meter is off the charts. That birth story is

completely bogus.

[Tracer]

65. You must be trying to be rational.

That doesn't work very well around here.

[rainbow4321]

107. Her teen daughter was pulled out of school the 5 months leading up to the birth

Reportedly with mono. FIVE months.
I had a severe. diagnosed-too-late case of mono in high school and was out for a month.
But FIVE months?? You think if she was THAT sick that it would have been big news in their local papers (as in "Governor's daughter extremely ill", etc..".
Per classmates that go to the girl's school, she was out for 5 months.

Mono diagnosis would be one way to keep her away from everyone (friends, media, out about town outings)

[depakid]

123. The above poster is obviously unaware that this sort of deal- while not common

happened from time to time in the past.

Past as in say, the 1960's and 1950's.

[SoCalDem]

46. Ahem !... gazillions of pics here ..

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=3879229&mesg_id=3879229

[philly_bob]

47. Woman on TX-AK flight in April 2008 said Palin was pregnant.

http://www.polartrec.com/node/3944. Included snapshot is inconclusive.

For me, pending refutation, this is evidence to dismiss false pregnancy/daughter's baby theory.

There's plenty of other problems with McCain's choice of Palin to highlight.

[SoCalDem]

48. Okay.. now I am puzzled.. She hurries back to deliver a high risk infant

yet pauses for cheery pics... check the map too..
she said they arrived at 10:30 at night..in Fairbanks..


She LIVES in Juneau (on Calhoun street, to be precise)..yet she lands in Fairbanks, and then goes on to Wasilla..

Why not fly into Juneau and go to the doctor/hospital dhe would have likely been seeing for prenatal care..where she LIVES..

Why?.. because Bristol was probably hanging out with Grammy & Grampy in Wasilla..:rofl:

[philly_bob]

49. Upon second look, article does not give date of airplane flight described.

So the meeting described in the article may be Palin going FROM Alaska TO governors' conference in Texas -- instead of the hurried flight back FROM Texas to ALASKA to give birth.

It just describes an airport meeting.

One piece of new information: daughter Piper Palin was with the governor at the airport.

The post, by Elizabeth Eubanks, a teacher/researcher interested in arctic issues, was made April 27; she said she was "reflecting back" to incident.

The baby was born on April 18, according to Wikipedia; at 6:30 AM according to http://www.celebrity-babies.com/2008/04/alaskan-governo.html

So Eubanks' journal entry may be less conclusive than I thought. Like you, I remain puzzled.

[SoCalDem]

52. Todd (or whatever his name is) must be a weird husband

You are several hours away from home, your 43 yr old wife tells you :
a) she's in labor
b) she's leaking amniotic fluid

It's BEFORE her scheduled speech...and a month before her due date..

It's her FIFTH child, and is a high risk pregnancy

so... you let her go ahead and make the speech, and only after that, do you fly home.. and since you live in Juneau, and you arrive late at night (Anchorage? Fairbanks?) you transfer her to the teensy little town MANY miles away from both of those cities, and even farther from JUNEAU (where her gyn/OB doctor would likely be) where the family LIVES..

An article stated that they arrived at 10:30 at night...so there was some long distances covered, very late at night, eirther by car or plane to get her to the small medical center in Wasilla..

MOST husbands in that scenario would be telling her to lie down, while HE called 911, and had her taken to the nearest HIGH QUALITY medical center....and then called the family to announce the baby's birth..

If she was so worried about the baby not being a Texan, she could have surely begged off the trip to start with.. It was just a closed door meeting of 9 republlican governors.. I wonder if any of them even knew she was pregnant.. she seemed to be reluctant to have anyone who didn't have to know, know..

[LibDemAlways]

62. No one in their right mind would let this play out the way the

offical version describes it. It's just totally ridiculous.

[LibDemAlways]

70. Not only is the husband weird, but Palin apparently found the

one doctor in the country who is as crazy as she is:

http://www.adn.com/626/story/382864.html


Unbelievable.

[LibDemAlways]

59. By then Palin had announced her pregnancy. If she

wasn't really pregnant, she might have been wearing some padding to look the part. Who knows.

The really fishy part of all this is the official birth story which stinks to high heaven.

I agree with you, though, there is plenty more about this woman that needs to be out there for the public to contemplate. She appears to be a real piece of work.

[seabeyond]

60. any mom, there is no way they would get on a plane when water broke

geeeezus i cant imagine many that would have made the trip in the first place. but all women who have had babies doesnt buy water broke, did a speech, got on a plane. not a single mom. not one.

IF this woman had this baby for real.... what the fuck. what kind of person is she. i cannot even imagine

[OHDEM]

76. My pregancies didn't go the traditional way...

but from what I know, there's NO WAY she was walking around after her water broke, attending meetings & acting like nothing was happening! The water doesn't just come out once & stop. It dribbles out & gushes when contractions hit. I've been told that it's gross & wet. Was she in depends? Who would ever risk flying like that?

I'm not sure it this is all just rumors or what, but something seems wrong here.

[LisaL]

100. Those are not "just rumors."

It's been reported in newspapers her labor started in TX and then she flew into Alaska and had the baby there.
http://www.adn.com/news/alaska/story/380134.html

[SoCalDem]

136. Oh my.. I have a headache.. Oh my ..I have a stomach-ache

Oh my.. I have a back ache..prove I don't:)

[kath]

89. NO, that account said that it happened in March

"I reflect back to my airport surprise when leaving Fairbanks after the PolarTREC Orientation in March."

where do you see that it was a flight from TEXAS? It clearly says:
"There were several of us PolarTRECers waiting in the Fairbanks, AK airport to catch our planes home. We were chatting about all we had learned when Kristen Timm, ARCUS administrator said “ Look, there is the Hottest Governor in the United States” as she has been publicly deemed by media and fans."

anyway, agree that the photo is inconclusive - just shows her upper body.


{on edit, I see that you corrected some of this in a later post.}

[KitSileya]

51. Either way it shows Palin's lack of proper judgment.

If it is her grandson rather than her son, she's defrauding the state of Alaska and lying to the nation.

If it is her son, she jeopardized his life as well as her own, and put the crew on a Texas-Alaska flight in an untenable position by flying after she discovered her amniotic fluid was leaking/her water broke (accounts differ as to the severity) without telling them.


I don't think we should dwell on the first option as much as we should the second - hammering home how she of the pro-life stance would endanger the life of her special-needs child rather than give birth in Texas.

[LibDemAlways]

61. I couldn't agree more. The airline would not have

let her on if she had told anyone, which she obviously didn't - assuming this story is true. The whole thing just doesn't sound plausible.

[Sweet Freedom]

55. Some info about prenatal diagnostic tests

Some general guidelines

http://www.aafp.org/afp/20000815/825.html

<snip>
Down syndrome (trisomy 21) is the most commonly recognized genetic cause of mental retardation. The risk of trisomy 21 is directly related to maternal age. All forms of prenatal testing for Down syndrome must be voluntary. A nondirective approach should be used when presenting patients with options for prenatal screening and diagnostic testing. Patients who will be 35 years or older on their due date should be offered chorionic villus sampling or second-trimester amniocentesis. Women younger than 35 years should be offered maternal serum screening at 16 to 18 weeks of gestation. The maternal serum markers used to screen for trisomy 21 are alpha-fetoprotein, unconjugated estriol and human chorionic gonadotropin. The use of ultrasound to estimate gestational age improves the sensitivity and specificity of maternal serum screening. (Am Fam Physician 2000;62:825-32,837-8.)
<snip>

When they are typically performed...

http://www.ucsfhealth.org/childrens/medical_services/preg/prenatal/conditions/down/diagnosis.html

<snip>
Amniocentesis, chorionic villus and ultrasound are the three primary procedures for diagnostic testing, which can identify certain abnormalities in the fetus.

Amniocentesis — Amniocentesis is used most commonly to identify chromosomal problems, such as Down syndrome. When the fetus is known to be at risk, it can detect other genetic diseases like cystic fibrosis, Tay-Sachs disease and sickle cell disease. An amniocentesis procedure for genetic testing is typically performed between 15 and 20 weeks of pregnancy.

Chorionic Villus Sampling (CVS) -- Like amniocentesis, chorionic villus sampling is used most commonly to identify chromosomal problems, such as Down syndrome. It can detect other genetic diseases like cystic fibrosis, Tay-Sachs disease and sickle cell disease in at-risk fetuses. The main advantage of CVS over amniocentesis is that it is done much earlier in pregnancy, at 10 to 12 weeks, rather than 15 to 20 weeks.
<snip>

[LisaL]

66. Is any of this true?

HTF would any of us know.
I think the story of the birth is pretty peculiar. 44 years old is an advanced age for a mother. Downs syndrome children could also have problems with their hearts, etc. To get on the plane after leaking amniotic fluid-commercial plane, no less-sounds really bizarre to me. I don't understand as to why she would do it. The plane would have to emergency land if she went into labor.
There could have been complications both with her and the child.

[onenote]

71. 44 is "an advanced age" for a mother?

Well, in one sense I suppose. But more than 100,000 women over the age of 40 give birth every year. Elizabeth Edwards had kids at 48 and 50. I was born in the 1950s and my mother was 40 at the time.

Her travelling while in the late stages of a pregnancy is, however, fairly odd.

[LisaL]

99. Want it or not, of course it is.

The risk of baby having Downs also goes up with age of the mother.

[onenote]

138. so are you saying that any woman who chooses to have a child at age 44 or older should be criticized

I'm sure you aren't. Which makes me wonder about the point of noting her age.

[LisaL]

139. If I have to spell it out, the incidence of medical

complications rises in older women compared to the younger ones.
It has nothing to do with criticizing an older woman for becoming a mother. It just that one would imagine an older woman should be closely monitored by medical professionals because of the risks.

[seabeyond]

141. well if this isnt silly. having been an older woman when i had my two, it is not an insult

to acknowledge the problems being older and giving birth and not. not a fuckin competition. a reality

[Codeine]

73. This is some misogynist shit, yo. nt

[tekisui]

79. She is a misogynist candidate, yo.

[Codeine]

80. Of course.

But one would think DU could hold itself to a slightly higher ethical standard.

[tekisui]

81. I think we are asking resonable questions.

This is an issue of possible insurance fraud, and major lies/cover-up.

It is also something that Palin and her staff could put to rest very quickly if there was nothing to it. Why did they scrub EVERYTHING from prior to March from her site? Something is rotten in Juneau.

[MiniMe]

87. I bet that was McCain's campaign

To me, the fact that all that info was scrubbed makes it suspicious.

[AzDar]

74. Ordinarily, I would say that this is her beeswax; let's not go there. But this matter seems

important on two fronts: firstly, she is rabidly anti-choice, so if she has no problem invading my reproductive business, I'm happy to turn the tables.
Secondly, it speaks to her veracity; she has already told one lie(that she opposed the 'bridge to nowhere' when clearly this was a secondary position for her) and we've seen what lying liars and the lies they tell can do when allowed to hold the highest offices in the land. Better to 'out' her now than to, for even one second, allow her to be considered suitable to lead this country.


NOT THIS TIME.

[OHDEM]

77. Remember-she's putting this out there!

Not just because of her political policies that invade the privacy of other women, but because she's putting herself out there as some great example of the "pro-life" mom making the tough decision to have a sick baby. Questions regarding her actual behavior towards her pregancy are relevant because she made them relevant.

[adamuu]

82. We don't need to dig into her personal life. McCain's judgment is already obviously bad.

Palin is obviously a bad enough choice. We don't need to dig up dirt on her in order to make her look worse than she already does. The head-scratching reaction from the right is enough.

Instead of digging or grasping on speculation about her personal life, focus on McCain's apparent willingness to put campaign ahead of country.

It's right on the surface. No digging is required.

[Nikki Stone1]

84. THIS IS RUMOR MONGERING: DU loses ALL credibility when you do stuff like this

Please, attack the woman for being a fundie/Dominionist, a tool of the oil lobby, a favorite of Rush Limbaugh, as not very experienced---but leave the baby-gate crap alone. Until we know something is fact, we should not be peddling it.

[OHDEM]

91. I'm not sure that talking about it here is "peddling it"

Isn't this the place to talk about what's true or false among the like-minded? Or to engage in some harmless gossip? :silly:

Besides, it's a bit of a tension breaker from the thought of a VP this bad! I mean, we've all been thru Cheney, but this one takes the cake. I agree that the best argument is that this is McCain's first big decision as the nominee & it's terrible.

However, they've already started touting her sick child as an example of what women SHOULD do in these circumstances. It would be a big deal if the story doesn't match reality.

[Stinky The Clown]

92. Flog your crap elsewhere

The OP was a fucking QUESTION - not an attack. It specifically asked for facts. You've been the Palin Police all day. Go shout at someone who gives a shit about this. I don't. And I didn't rumor monger, as you so loudly aver.

So ..... we're not supposed to talk about subjects that upset you?

Deal with it.

Pffft ....

[seabeyond]

95. attack the woman for being a fundie/Dominionist.... rumor mongering, how dare you

gossip about her religion. totally personal

[verdalaven]

101. Whether or not she is the mother or grandmother -

If she is Trig's mother, then her behavior on the day he was born shows an inability to make common sense decisions. It is worth a discussion or two on DU and it certainly is worth getting "out there" to people who might vote for McCain because they are smitten with his conservative-beauty-queen veep choice.

[KoKo]

104. I joined DU back in '01 to confront "Truth to Power" ..... Democratic "Underground"

doesn't equal "Democratic Democratic Leadership Conference" (DLC) or some other "corruption" of what "used to be Dem Values."

But, then...I don't vote for Nader...either.

[LisaL]

135. The official story is,

the 44 year old woman, pregnant with Downs syndrome child, has her amniotic fluid leaking, but does not go to the hospital. Instead gives a conference, and then flies home, on a very long flight. If the official story is true, what does it say about her judgment?
Downs syndrome babies could have health issues. Some have heart defects. Why would a woman fly after her amniotic fluid leaked, instead of going to the hospital right away to be checked out, and for the baby to be checked out? The whole plane would have to emergency land if she went into active labor thousands of feet up in the air.

[seabeyond]

142. and i want to meet the doctor that sits in alaska talking to patient in texas

telling her sure, all is fine go to your meeting and fly on home

[greguganus]

102. I heard that the dad may be the father of the daughter's baby. n/t

[seabeyond]

103. that is nowhere and it is a nonissue. n/t

[greguganus]

105. Why can't I float my rumor around with the other ones?

Who made you the rumor monitor? lol

[Stinky The Clown]

106. You wanna float stupid fucking rumors, start your own thread and get the fuck out of mine

Asshat statements like yours make my thread look stupid.

Go away. You're not appreciated here.

[endthewar]

112. Good grief...

:rofl:

[Name removed]

115. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[endthewar]

116. ...

:rofl:

[Liberal_in_LA]

117. LOL. n/t

[endthewar]

118. Well, he deserved it

I was *this* close to putting up a different picture for him:



I could smell the pizza cooking though, so I chose the other one. :rofl:

[Stinky The Clown]

119. Pizza?

What ... ?

Your face?

[greguganus]

120. Not too sparkly tonite. n/t

[seabeyond]

109. because there is no fact in it. what we are talking about are facts. n/t

[greguganus]

121. Thank you for your intelligent reply. Some people...lol. n/t

[Regret My New Name]

125. Wait... but...

The dad of the daughters baby is the father of the baby. ;)

[Regret My New Name]

124. lol, I was trying to say that to some people and I had them going for a bit...

I just can't keep a straight face long enough though.... I know. I know. I'm a sick twisted person.

[mnhtnbb]

128. Here's a video from 1989 which had to be about the time Palin

was 8 or 9 months pregnant with her first born. She is clearly preggers. She looks
nothing like this in the photos of her announcement in March 2008 that she was 7 months pregnant.

It's very unusual for women to be slimmer with later pregnancies.

http://www.ktva.com/video?bcpid=1641243975&bclid=1632695727&bctid=1761990935

The time line is that her oldest was born in 1989. There have been rumors that her elopement
in August 1988 was due to pregnancy. She and her husband said they eloped to avoid the cost
of a wedding. I couldn't find a birthdate for the oldest boy, but spring 1989 would fit
with the rumors and the way she looks in this video.

[Tutonic]

143. Why was Bristo lremoved from school wtih mono for five months?

Five months!!!!!

[SoCalDem]

145. Mono makes your belly swell??

:rofl:

[NoFederales]

144. Kudos to your serious question. I hope this is mined relentlessly for corroboration. nt

NoFederales