Sarah Palin: Dominionist Stalking Horse

[Douglas Carpenter]

on a personal note, let me say that I have frequently strongly defended Evangelical Christians on this forum and have condemned thoughtless bigotry based on peoples religious beliefs.

However, this is different. Sarah Palin seems to be deeply involved with extremist religious groups with a very dangerous political agenda.

I STRONGLY RECOMMEND READING THIS WHOLE ARTICLE AT DAILY KOS AND SENDING IT TO EVERYONE ON YOUR E-MAIL LIST AND POSTING IT EVERYWHERE AND ANYWHERE

From Daily Kos:

Sarah Palin: Dominionist Stalking Horse

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/8/29/163234/559/495/579213

Sarah Palin's connections that McCain doesn't want you to know about

There are quite a number of extremely troubling links between Sarah Palin and neopentecostal dominionists--enough that, in truth, she may be ultimately as much of a "dream candidate" for the dominionist movement as Mike Huckabee was. Even worse, she's running in a manner that has been frighteningly successful for dominionist groups since the early 80's--specifically, as a "stealth candidate".

snip: In a trend that has been recently documented by no less than Southern Poverty Law Center (in its recent report on the Joel's Army movement), the church operates a Seven Project-esque targeted recruitment campaign aiming at teens (this is common across the Assemblies and across "Joel's Army" groups in general; fully a third of the documented national-level front groups operated by the Assemblies target teens).

And...believe you me, Palin's church is definitely "Joel's Army".

Mike Rose, pastor of Juneau Christian Center (Palin's church), is noted to be connected with the "Third Wave Movement"--a movement in neopente dominionist circles that is the major theological home of "Joel's Army". In fact, he's quite closely connected with Rodney Howard-Browne, a major (in fact, for some years, the major promoter) of "Third Wave" neopente dominionism, and actively promotes this insanity in his church:

snip:" It also appears that Sarah Palin is a member of a misnamed group called Feminists for Life. FFL in fact engages in "cultural appropriation" of women's suffrage icons to promote a very woman-unfriendly agenda that--despite attempts to sound "not like those crazies in Operation Rescue"--would not only criminalise abortion but the IUD and hormonal birth control methods, and potentially everything outside the rhythm method (the term "abortifacient birth control" is a codephrase in the dominionist "pro-life" community for hormonal birth control--partly due to a unique urban legend claiming "the pill" and other hormonal birth control causes abortion and partly because of a unique definition of pregnancy beginning at conception rather than at implantation (the latter is what most mainstream OB/GYNs use) and thus making anything preventing implantation potentially "abortifacient").

snip:"One of the big things FFL promotes is deceptive "pregnancy counseling centers"--where pregnant teens are forced to essentially listen to an altar call on how "abortionists want to murder their children" whilst a pee-stick test clears--and if she tests "yes", she gets a hard-sell to keep the child or to check herself into a dominionist-run "halfway house for teenage moms" where she will ultimately be forced to sign her kid over. (Yes, there is an entire private adoption industry in the dominionist community--mostly focusing on adopting out the infants of poor teenage mothers who have been forced to give their kids up and who have been either scared into it or checked into such facilities by their parents.)

Ironically, FFL itself is rather a "stealth" organisation in and of itself--yes, even the dominionists admit this. Interestingly, despite their claims of being more "moderate" than most anti-abortion groups, very few real solutions are offered on how they intend to fund such things (which can be boiled down to "CHOOSE TO BREED").

Palin's links with Campus Crusade frontgroups

Palin's linkages don't stop there. In Kaylene Johnson's book Sarah: How a Hockey Mom Turned Alaska's Political Establishment Upside Down (2008, Epicenter Press) it's mentioned that Palin was head of the local Fellowship of Christian Athletes branch in her school--up to and including leading team prayers.

It is helpful to know a bit of FCA's past history to know why this is a matter of concern. FCA is, in fact, a known frontgroup of the coercive dominionist group Campus Crusade for Christ--yes, the selfsame Campus Crusade that has such close links to the Assemblies of God that it can be described as a "conjoined twin" of the Assemblies and the same one documented as having links to an ever-widening prosyletisation scandal in our Armed Forces. FCA also gets quite a lot of cash from de facto Assemblies funding-front Hobby Lobby--a chain, of note, that has bailed out a neopente university and has even funded paramilitary "Joel's Army" groups targeting teens.

The links between FCA and a particular Hobby Lobby frontgroup, Bearing Fruit Communications, are particularly close. At least one member of Bearing Fruit's board of directors (T. Ray Grandstaff) is a former Senior VP for Fellowship of Christian Athletes.

Regarding FCA itself, the group has been linked to dominionism in numerous ways; they are well known for "bait and switch" evangelism (in fact, they and Athletes in Action are among the two groups most frequently banned from public school campuses due to bait-and-switch "altar calls" marketed as anti-drug talks to the school administration). More info here. (Such tactics are a favourite of dominionist groups explicitly targeting youth.) It's also well known (and, apparently, explicitly by design) that Fellowship of Christian Athletes rather aggressively "dominionist-ises" any team they are let into (this tends to be bad even within the NFL, but even more so within FCA groups run in colleges and high schools).

Of particular note, FCA has close links with the US Air Force Academy religious coercion controversies (and is but one of multiple Campus Crusade frontgroups documented by Military Religious Freedom Foundation as involved in military religious coercion scandals), and the ACLU has had to fight them since the 60's because of religious coercion (in particular, Jewish people tend to be targeted, according to the anti-cult group Rick Ross Foundation); in addition, it is explicitly supported by dominionist groups, and explicitly partners with other dominionist groups targeting youth (including Chi Alpha (an Assemblies of God frontgroup), Campus Crusade for Christ, and even scarier groups like "See You At The Pole" (infamous for, among other things, nailing people's names to crosses and "praying" over them to essentially curse people in the name of Christ to convert or suffer) and Council for National Policy)."



http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/8/29/163234/559/495/579213

[Solly Mack]

1. Oh yeah....she sure is

[Richard D]

2. KR'd

[flamingdem]

3. ugh nt

[libnnc]

4. kick

[ColbertWatcher]

5. I had a feeling she was a loose cannon, but damn.

Thank you for the post.

[bbgrunt]

6. k and r. this is very important info.

[LeftishBrit]

7. Scary!

No wonder her appointment was announced at the Nutter Center!

Unfortunately, there are probably some people who will vote for her just because of this.

[ColbertWatcher]

13. Every ballot in November will be altered to pandered to the 21% ers. n/t

[Douglas Carpenter]

15. unfortunately there is a whole network of these people who are the loyalist of all foot soldiers

many of these people are not particularly politically minded in day to day life. They're just led to believe that they are "doing the Lord's work".

[Douglas Carpenter]

20. //

[Douglas Carpenter]

93. //

[Douglas Carpenter]

8. THANKS FOR THE RECOMMENDS!!! MAYBE WE CAN REC. IT UP TO THE FRONT PAGE!!

[Bluebear]

9. Kerrrrazy. One heartbeat away from the red button & she can "rapture" us all!

[Douglas Carpenter]

16. the part I am concerned about is that most dominionist believe that

the Harram Al Shariff (Islam's third holiest Mosque) in Jerusalem must be destroyed and the ancient Temple of Solomon must be rebuilt - in order to provoke the Battle of Armageddon - so that Jesus can return; and the Jews will all become Christians.

I should add that this is not a standard Evangelical belief. But it is standard among this sort of extreme fundamentalist.

It doesn't take a lot imagination to conceive the problem of having a President of the United States who might very well share such beliefs.

I don't know for sure that this is Sarah Palin's beliefs. But it is certainly the belief of a number of the people she mixes with.

[Igel]

39. Most of the dominionist writings I've read are post-millennialist.

Explicitly so. North, Chalcedon, etc. It's basically the foundation, the very underpinning, of Christian Reconstructionism. Jesus will return after society is prepared, after he's been made victorious. That's usually taken to be at the end of the 1k years. Take this assumption away, and you deny the principle of Reconstruction and you gut Dominionism.

The entire rebuilding the Temple business in a cataclysm of violence is pre-millennial. A post-millennialist would say that the Arabs themselves will mostly call for rebuilding the temple; the real fight won't be physical, but of "hearts and minds". There are splinter groups; but don't confuse the splinters for the beam, even if from 100 feet away you can't tell the difference.

It's possible to be Dominionist without being post-millennialist, but it's a wishy-washy kind of dominionism. Basically "be good stewards, as much as you can." Pre-millennialism says that Christians will *not* rule in any meaningful way until Christ's return; Christians, perhaps, should help things along (views are mixed on whether this is possible or not). But pre-millennialism explicitly assumes the impossibility of success in the endeavor; to succeed would be failure, to deny Jesus.

"Dominionist" is like "socialist": It's a term that a group uses with a fairly precise meaning when referring to itself, even when there's a spatter of groups with slightly different ideologies. They keep themselves distinct, and know generally where the group limits are. Then there's the term used by outsiders to cover a wide range of groups, many of which would never use the term themselves, and which those calling themselves "socialist" would find risible.

RWers can easily take socialist writings and some modern quotes, along with a few assumptions that aren't really explicit or questioned and conclusions based on unquoted materials, to make people who aren't socialists out to be socialists. Often it involves changing the definition of words mistream, using a definition from one source in interpreting a second source with a second definition. A second fault is that inferences are often presented as valid even when they're abductions, not implications. In other words, an inference *might* be valid, it's fully consistent with the premises; but it's not the only inference that might be valid, it's merely one possibility, and without more evidence logic is impotent. Doing this, you can make Obama out to be a rather radical version of Castro or Mao--a snippet here, quote there, misapply definition over there, ignore a second possibility, and you've got it. That's usually considered to be highly fallacious and dishonest, I think. The OP does the same things. It's outrage-driven goal-oriented rhetoric, "gotcha" writing. But since it's on the right side of the political divide, his sins are absolved, his intellectual errors covered. Ptooie.

[RaleighNCDUer]

68. A lot of rationalization there which does not correlate with any reality

I am aware of.

Dominionist IS pre-millenial. What you are describing as post-millenial is just plain fundamentalist evangelism.

The Dominionists are intent on bringing about the millenium through their own actions - preparing the world for the return, fighting the battle of armegeddon.

They are nuts, and they are dangerous.

[On the Road]

109. Dominionism is an Excellent Wedge Issue

in order to break off large chunks of potential support for Palin. However, it is important for the charges to be made accurately. Some of the references to dominionism have brought in all kinds of unrelated fundamentalist or pentecostal beliefs. Inaccurate charges can be debunked and needlessly defuse what should be an important political issues.

As you mention, I also have the impression that dominionism had its roots in postmillenial Calvinism, especially the writings of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rushdoony">RJ Rushdoony such as The Institutes of Biblical Law. Gary North runs in the same circles. Calvinists, however, are a pretty small element of the church, and not particularly threatening by themselves.

I get the impression that dominionism has spread into pentecostal and fundamentalist parts of the church, and this is much more dangerous because they are a couple of orders of magnitude larger, less historically grounded, and less responsible.

It's important to establish exactly what can be attributed to Palin, and exactly which groups she's supported and participated in.

[DCKit]

10. Nothing Christlike about these people.

Neither the VP or the President have any power Congress doesn't allow, but I can't begin to imagine the fight to take this religiously insane woman out of the Oval Office if it came to that - over the bodies of other religiously insane supporters, without a doubt. The work they've already accomplished placing their people within the military and government agencies is going to take years to undo.

I've heard a few things about the crusades and inquisition, and have no wish to live through both simultaneously, up close and personal. To paraphrase: "the separation between church and state was not intended to protect religion...".

[Douglas Carpenter]

17. I always try to separate religious people including Evangelicals from these right wing crazies

these people are REALLY dangerous!!

[seabeyond]

30. thank you for putting forth that effort. i am christian, i seperate self from religion period

lol lol but also there are a lot of christians that embrace a christian religion that is not what these people live and are and represent to the rest of the world

appreciate that you can acknowledge and recognize that

i understand the anger at the christian. i too have it

[Douglas Carpenter]

35. most Americans consider themselves Christian and lots of them hold beliefs that more secular

minded people would find a bit odd.

I don't care the least bit if Sarah Palin is a Pentecostal and speaks in tongues. Al Sharpton is a Pentecostal preacher for that matter.

I do care if they hold beliefs that could curtail civil liberties or drive America toward Armageddon.

[MadrasT]

75. This one sentence is the crux of it:

"I do care if they hold beliefs that could curtail civil liberties or drive America toward Armageddon."

:kick: Kicking again.

[fascisthunter]

50. same

most should

[JDPriestly]

65. Neither the VP or the President . . . . Are you joking?

How could anyone make that claim after the past 7 years? The fact is that the VP and President can do whatever they want -- with the right Congress -- or even in spite of the wrong Congress if they are willing to lie and cheat to do it.

[elshiva]

11. OMG! I had no idea

that FFL was against birth control. I just thought they were against abortion. Isn't that more of a rightwing Fundamentalist Catholic belief rather than a RW Protestant Fundamentalist belief, the anti-birth control bit? These folks have lost all sense of reality.
WTF IS WRONG WITH BIRTH CONTROL, YOU ASSHOLES! :grr:

buffy

[jazzjunkysue]

42. Dirty little secret: Pro-"life" = anti-birth control.

And if you think about it, can you really organize reasonable people so see the difference between a 7th month abortion and the pill? No. They're too intelligent and reasonable to bother to attend regular meetings and parade around with signs on sidewalks. They get the difference and they have compassion for unwanted children. They know it's not so good for teens to raise children.

The only people you can organize and mobilize are the whack-job 100%-ers who think a woman's only role can be dismissive procreation and motherhood. It's the biblical SUBMIT believers you can organize. So, of course the political groups don't believe in any birth intervention, under any circumstances. They resent other women who have released themselves from this 3rd century bondage.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

69. Exactly

Most mainstream pro-life people don't believe me when I explain to them how the so-called Right to Life movement opposes contraception. Indeed, many women who characterize themselves as anti-abortion use birth control themselves as a way to avoid unwanted pregnancies. You are right that the most rabid people with the most extreme views tend to gravitate to activism in the anti-choice movement. And most of them are male. I just got back from Denver and the whole week these nutjobs were walking around with bullhorns and banners featuring bloody dead infants and driving around in a truck emblazoned with gruesome images of decapitated stillborns (that we're supposed to believe are typical abortions I guess). Not one woman among them. Not one.

[kestrel91316]

80. The women are all at home with their quiverfulls, barefoot and pregnant,

chained to the stove.

[kestrel91316]

79. I've known for a couple of decades, based on their rhetoric, that

these freaks were NEVER gonna settle for overturning Roe v Wade. Their REAL goal is Griswold v Connecticut, which made birth control of ALL kinds legal.

You did know that until the 1960s birth control was highly illegal most places, didn't you? Perhaps you are too young to remember. Please tell all your friends. Most women under a certain age are blissfully unaware of this.

We are all in great danger.

[pnorman]

12. Here's some more along that line in Alternet:

Faith Gone Way Too Far: Thousands-Strong Theocratic Sect Prays for Real Armageddon

http://www.alternet.org/story/96945/faith_gone_way_too_far:_thousands-strong_theocratic_sect_prays_for_real_armageddon/?page=1

porman
On edit: "Joel's Army" in that Alternet article is what bears close scrutiny. In another DU posting, I had essentially dismissed Sarah Palin as a featherhead of sorts; a desperate move on the part of McCain to go after the presumably disgruntled Clinton supporters. But this discussion puts her in an entirely different light, and not only plausible but SINISTER. I myself will follow this idea very carefully.

[elshiva]

14. Interesting and scary.

I have to finish reading this, but it is awful.

buffy

[Bluebear]

18. She is one heartbeat from the red button which would let her "rapture" us all!

[pnorman]

22. Here's a link from another DU thread, that goes into more detail about her:

http://dwb.adn.com/news/politics/story/8334949p-8231037c.html

Be VERY careful with unthinking scatter-shot bashing, as it might blow up in our faces. Regard her as a SERIOUS threat. There's a lot more to her than a pretty face; she may be a stealth "Dick Cheney with nice tits". Perhaps she was what the neo-Cons had in mind all along, with harmless old McCain as cover.

pnorman

[moodforaday]

43. You may well be right

Ever since McCain's announcement I've been wondering, where's a Dick Cheney in this?

McCain doesn't have a grip on reality (just like Bush) and can't say a coherent sentence without a teleprompter (just like Bush, thugh maybe for different reasons), so clearly McCain is merely the neocons' new puppet. (By comparison, say, Giuliani would be too mavericky, dealing on his own with the mafia left and right, can't have that. So McCain it is.) But then, who's the puppetmaster? Palin may be it.

Or she may just be a willing conduit for whoever gives orders to her. After all, she'll do anything for Jesus.

[pnorman]

46. "willing conduit for whoever gives orders to her". I hope I wasn't blowing this out of proportion.

If so, it would be my first Paranoia Moment, since this election campaign has begun. (And of course, "Dick Cheney with nice tits" was too delicious a phrase to pass up!)

It may just be last ditch lunacy on the part of whoever's running the McCain campaign. But if it succeeds in diluting the effect of Obama's wonderful acceptance speech, it just may be with our unconscious assistance. So let's all quit chattering about this, to the exclusion of other matters!

Now ON TO NOVEMBER!


pnorman

[kestrel91316]

81. Her husband obviously gives orders to her. The question is,

who gives him his orders?

[Politicalboi]

72. Terminator 3

[starroute]

48. That one's worth some direct quotes

Freaky, freaky stuff.

http://www.alternet.org/story/96945/

Tattooed across his sternum are military dog tags that read "Joel's Army." They're evidence of Bentley's generalship in a rapidly growing apocalyptic movement that's gone largely unnoticed by watchdogs of the theocratic right. According to Bentley and a handful of other "hyper-charismatic" preachers advancing the same agenda, Joel's Army is prophesied to become an Armageddon-ready military force of young people with a divine mandate to physically impose Christian "dominion" on non-believers.

"An end-time army has one common purpose -- to aggressively take ground for the kingdom of God under the authority of Jesus Christ, the Dread Champion," Bentley declares on the website for his ministry school in British Columbia, Canada. "The trumpet is sounding, calling on-fire, revolutionary believers to enlist in Joel's Army. ... Many are now ready to be mobilized to establish and advance God's kingdom on earth."

Joel's Army followers, many of them teenagers and young adults who believe they're members of the final generation to come of age before the end of the world, are breaking away in droves from mainline Pentecostal churches. Numbering in the tens of thousands, they base their beliefs on an esoteric reading of the second chapter of the Old Testament Book of Joel, in which an avenging swarm of locusts attacks Israel. In their view, the locusts are a metaphor for Joel's Army.

[The Wizard]

86. Where's Borat

when you need him?

[nebenaube]

92. phhhhttttttt !

ducks in a gallery...

[Douglas Carpenter]

19. ANY MORE RECOMMENDS??? PLEEEEEEEEASE!!! THIS IS JUST TOOO00 IMPORTANT!!

I REALLLLLLLLY THINK THIS SHOULD BE RECOMMENDED UP TO THE FRONT PAGE!!

[LeftishBrit]

21. another k & an r

This could put the whole world in danger.

[Stand and Fight]

23. If you need to read up on the Dominionist, please visit:

http://www.theocracywatch.org/

Great site about this sub-culture of America and talks about how dangerous they could potentially be...

[SocratesInSpirit]

24. Why, why, why

can't these people just keep to themselves? If they don't want to use birth control, fine - but they have no fucking business sticking their nose in everyone else's affairs and try to rule over others' personal reproductive choices. If they want my birth control, they will have to pry it from my cold, dead fingers! :mad: :mad:

[magellan]

34. Because they believe they're doing the Lord's work

It's really as simple, and dangerous, as that.

[Kitty Herder]

38. This kind of thing pisses me off beyond words.

How can they be against birth control? If they're against abortion, wouldn't they want to avoid unwanted pregnancies? The best way to prevent abortion is to prevent pregnancy.

And what about all of us women who take oral contraceptives for medical reasons?

[PatSeg]

51. That is the problem

They don't want to avoid any kind of pregnancies among Christians. They believe they need to be fruitful and multiply because Muslim populations are growing while Christian populations are stagnant or declining. Then the Muslims can overpower the Christians and take over the world.

There are fundamentalists who encourage their followers to have many children. It is their duty to God.

[classof56]

62. As far as using contraceptives for medical reasons...

they'll just say it's God's will for us to suffer. Gotta love that! And if contraceptives are illegal, then taking them for whatever reason would not be an option anyhow. If I'm recalling Griswold v Connecticut correctly (need to google to be sure), the state declared artificial means of birth control against the law, even for married couples (stop me if I'm wrong!) and the law was overturned by the SCOTUS. Somehow I'm recalling that if Roe v Wade goes away, Griswold v Connecticut might too, and states could make laws affecting birth control. There are already doctors who won't prescribe The Pill no matter what, and pharmacists that won't fill the prescriptions. If hormone replacement therapy is also made illegal, gonna be lots of unhappy females going through menopause. Of course, again, it's God's will for us to suffer and we must not complain! I do believe the reason these folks are anti-birth control is a male power thing--they call the shots and we, mere subservient women that we are, must submit and obey. Grrr!

[MadrasT]

76. Any man on this planet

who thinks I'm going to "submit and obey" has a rude awakening coming.

Just ask my husband. :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[classof56]

85. Way to go! They could ask mine, too...if I let 'em!

Suspect there'd be lots of rude awakenings going on, but damn, that's still what those Dominionist/Reconstructionst advocates want, I swear it is!

[Tansy_Gold]

78. It's Eve's fault.

Because Eve allowed herself to be tempted into eating the forbidden fruit, she and all her female descendants are condemned to deliver their children in pain. It's their punishment.

Fundies believe, therefore, that interfering with their god's will is the worst kind of sin. There is very little difference between them and fundamentalist muslims. The bottom line is that women are evil, and anything that's done to lessen the pain of being female will not be allowed.

Tansy Gold

[classof56]

87. Yeah, Genesis is pretty clear on that point.

A thing that occurred to me a long time ago is, Adam didn't have to eat that fruit too. He coulda said "hey, God, this woman you made me screwed up. Make me another one!" My guess is that by that time he was really besotted with her and willing to take the fall alongside her. Then when he was busted, he whined and blamed it on Eve.

Or it could be too that he figured he didn't have another rib to spare...

Interesting book, Genesis. And yes, fundie Christians (I'm now a drop-out) aren't much different than the fundie muslims as far as mindset and attitudes toward women go. Shame on all of them!

[kestrel91316]

83. You don't get it. They don't want to avoid unwanted pregnancies.

They want to enslave women.

I am DEAD serious. You MUST NOT underestimate these people. Read The Handmaid's Tale - that's their vision of paradise.

We are in great danger.

[SammyWinstonJack]

25. K&R

:argh:

[Douglas Carpenter]

96. thanks

[AzDar]

26. ...

:wow:

[knitter4democracy]

27. Well, now, I'm not so sure I go along with all of that.

I've known people involved in all of those activities who were good, loving people trying to live out their faith who'd never try to start Armageddon or anything like that. Just because someone's pastor is involved in stuff doesn't mean that his parishoners are. My last Nazarene pastor (before we got married and converted to the Eastern Orthodox Church) was involved with all sorts of megachurch guys, but I wasn't, and neither was my mom. My mom helped with Meet You at the Pole, and she would never, ever condone starting nuclear war. I've known kids in FCA who went on to become decent adults, too.

I'm just saying, just because you can "six degrees of separation" her and because she's technically a member of a group that mirrors her beliefs and helps her politically, that doesn't mean that she's a super-crazy weirdo who'll push the button to make Jesus come back sooner.

[Warren Stupidity]

53. So only our candidates should be held accountable for their crazy pastors?

Sorry, this game plays both ways.

[knitter4democracy]

74. I was against that, too.

For the same reasons.

[Douglas Carpenter]

28. one more kcik for the next shift

[Kip Humphrey]

29. The CNP? ...What a surprise. n/t

[PufPuf23]

31. Thanks Dangerous People AOG

My nearest neighbor of the past 6 months is the local Assembly of God pastor.
I talk to him and give him work on my ranch cutting brush etc.

He lies to me all the time not realizing what I know about AOG in general and his particular church and AOG in the county specifically (where I am a native and not young). So far it is a game to me as he is such a freak.

[Douglas Carpenter]

32. Rasmussen: Palin Makes Good First Impression: Is Viewed More Favorably than Biden

"Sarah Palin has made a good first impression. Before being named as John McCain's running mate, 67% of voters didn't know enough about the Alaska governor to have an opinion. After her debut in Dayton and a rush of media coverage, a new Rasmussen Reports telephone survey finds that 53% now have a favorable opinion of Palin while just 26% offer a less flattering assessment. "

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/election_20082/2008_presidential_election/palin_makes_good_first_impression_is_viewed_more_favorably_than_biden

[seabeyond]

36. my hubby walked in last night. heard about her position. knew nothing about her

i let him listen to all the news on tv. wasnt outraged by her. laying in bed, watching stewart, i start showing him things on du. telling him points about her. then stewart showed video of some. and hubby going or lordy..... is this for real. he really nominated her. geeezus. and thinking of her becoming pres brought him right her to the way all us feel on du

they just gotta get to know her a little

[Douglas Carpenter]

33. what I really wonder about Sarah Palin is...

Sarah Palin: Dominionist Stalking Horse
by dogemperor
Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 03:21:50 PM PDT
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/8/29/163234/559/495/579213



The big news, obviously, in the blogosphere today is John McCain's surprise pick for the Republican veep nominee--a relative unknown by the name of Sarah Palin, whom--at least in the more conventional political circles--would appear to be a complete cypher.Unfortunately, if one digs just a bit deeper, Palin is found to have some very interesting--and very disturbing--connections...among them, being potentially the first Assemblies-linked VP candidate and having a number of links to dominionist groups targeting kids via "bait and switch" evangelism.
dogemperor's diary :: ::

Sarah Palin's connections that McCain doesn't want you to know aboutThere are quite a number of extremely troubling links between Sarah Palin and neopentecostal dominionists--enough that, in truth, she may be ultimately as much of a "dream candidate" for the dominionist movement as Mike Huckabee was. Even worse, she's running in a manner that has been frighteningly successful for dominionist groups since the early 80's--specifically, as a "stealth candidate".Palin's Assemblies linkageThe first link in and of itself is a doozy--and one of the most damning indeed. No less than the official newsletter of the Assemblies of God of Alaska promotes her proudly as one of the denomination's own, and she was actually feted at an official function of the Assemblies' Alaska District as recently as this year:
The opening night banquet of the 2008 Alaska District Council was honored to have Governor Sarah Palin address the delegates and guests. Governor Palin spoke of her appreciation for the Assemblies of God and requested that the Council pray for both her and the State of Alaska. Superintendent Ted Boatsman, who was Palin's junior high pastor at Wasilla Assembly of God, along with Pastor Mike Rose of Juneau Christian Center, where Palin presently attends church when in Juneau, laid hands on the Governor and led the Council in prayer.Palin, who was elected Governor in 2007, is Alaska's youngest governor and the first female governor of the state. She just recently gave birth to her fifth child, Trig. Palin spoke of the faith challenge she faced when learning that Trig would be a Downs Syndrome child. However, she and her husband, Todd, believe that every child is a gift of God, deserving of life, and that God was asking them to accept His will for their lives. The Alaska District Council believes that the State of Alaska is blessed to have a woman of faith and courage as Governor.
A look at the home website of Palin's church tends to be revealing. Among other things, a particular Assemblies buzzword associated frequently with Hillsong A/G and New Zealand Assemblies churches shows up ("Destiny", here, is a buzzword for "Joel's Army", and is being preferred even as the phrase "Joel's Army" is getting enough negative spin that even the Assemblies is now having to do some rather massive spin control); cell churches are promoted (of the same sort that are linked to short-term and longterm psychological damage and are among the most coercive tactics ever documented in spiritually abusive groups). The church, like a number of other large Assemblies churches, is the center of a dominionist broadcast TV center whose programming is carried across multiple channels in Alaska.In a trend that has been recently documented by no less than Southern Poverty Law Center (in its recent report on the Joel's Army movement), the church operates a Seven Project-esque targeted recruitment campaign aiming at teens (this is common across the Assemblies and across "Joel's Army" groups in general; fully a third of the documented national-level front groups operated by the Assemblies target teens). And...believe you me, Palin's church is definitely "Joel's Army".Mike Rose, pastor of Juneau Christian Center (Palin's church), is noted to be connected with the "Third Wave Movement"--a movement in neopente dominionist circles that is the major theological home of "Joel's Army". In fact, he's quite closely connected with Rodney Howard-Browne, a major (in fact, for some years, the major promoter) of "Third Wave" neopente dominionism, and actively promotes this insanity in his church:
Mike Rose
Mike is an AOG pastor in the largest city in Alaska, who had Rodney Howard-Browne minister in his church four years ago. At that time, they had a congregation of 200, but over the last 4 years, they have seen it grow to 600 in a community of 35,000.The format that Mike uses is one which gives a balanced approach to church life, allowing for worship and the Word, ministry to the unsaved as well as impartation of the Holy Spirit.To do this, he has followed a fairly traditional Sunday morning worship service with worship, communion and preaching of the Word, as well as all the other activities which occur in our morning services, such as dedications and so on.If there are two or three people who are perhaps crying or laughing uncontrollably, the ushers will gently lead them into the prayer room where they can continue to enjoy the presence of Jesus without affecting those around them.However, he is also open to the possible occasions when the Holy Spirit will just sweep over the service and the majority of the people will be either laughing, crying or worshipping at one time.His Sunday evening service generally lasts for three to four hours, compared to the morning one of around two hours. At the conclusion of the evening evangelistic endeavour, people are invited to open up their hearts and hunger for a fresh touch of the Spirit. It was during these times that the powerful manifestations will take place and, having observed what has been happening in our Adelaide meetings over the last few weeks, these times have a great similarity to the old time Pentecostal camp meeting or tarrying services where people received a fresh touch of God.Mike encourages his people to hunger and has taught them along that line. He helped them to understand and develop a new sensitivity to the ways of the Holy Spirit. His observations were:* You cannot sustain a move of the Spirit without hunger. * Corrections need to be made from time to time. * Don't just get fascinated by the move of God, but rather keep your eyes on Jesus. * Mission giving and outreach evangelism should be a prominent part of this move and the churches which don't reach out soon dry up. He encourages us not to hype it up and that there needs to be a continual emphasis on holiness and that only qualified people should lay hands on those who have come for prayer.Mike is also an adviser on Rodney Howard-Browne's Revival Ministries committee, along with three or four other AOG pastors in the USA. He informed me that he had sat in over 110 of Rodney's meetings and been impressed by the lack of pressure and hype, but by the powerful anointing of the Spirit which accompanies this young man.
As to why Howard-Browne's involvement is distressing--well, this previous article should give some pointers, but suffice it to say that another notable church he's had close connections with is the very church I am a walkaway from--hence how I know some of this up close and personal. Some of the fun includes literal imprecatory prayers and curses against critics and literally accusing critics even within pentecostal circles of literal blasphemy against the Holy Spirit:
Rodney Howard-Browne gave this 'prophesy' last year at New Life Center: 'Do not compromise. For if you compromise, you shall not only lose the anointing that I placed upon you, you shall lose your life.'"
. . .
"I'm telling your right now," hissed, "you'll drop dead if you prohibit what God is doing!" Dramatically he gestured toward the crowd and warned them
that those like me, who would dare to question that what he was doing was of God, had committed the unpardonable sin and would not be forgiven in this world or the next."
Bad news...but it doesn't stop there.Palin's links to "Feminists" For Life, a deceptive anti-abortion groupAs if the Assemblies links weren't enough (and between this diary and the stuff that has been reported re John Ashcroft--much less George W. Bush's consistent support for Assemblies frontgroups--that should be a pretty big damn danger sign right there!), there's still more to indicate Sarah Palin may have been put in as a "stealth dominionist".Among other things, Palin explicitly promoted "teach the controversy" by calling for the misnamed "creation science" to be taught in public schools (as now well documented in Kitzmiller vs. Dover School District, it's known that "creation science" is nothing more and nothing less than a method of putting young-earth creationism in public schools).It also appears that Sarah Palin is a member of a misnamed group called Feminists for Life. FFL in fact engages in "cultural appropriation" of women's suffrage icons to promote a very woman-unfriendly agenda that--despite attempts to sound "not like those crazies in Operation Rescue"--would not only criminalise abortion but the IUD and hormonal birth control methods, and potentially everything outside the rhythm method (the term "abortifacient birth control" is a codephrase in the dominionist "pro-life" community for hormonal birth control--partly due to a unique urban legend claiming "the pill" and other hormonal birth control causes abortion and partly because of a unique definition of pregnancy beginning at conception rather than at implantation (the latter is what most mainstream OB/GYNs use) and thus making anything preventing implantation potentially "abortifacient"). FFL promotes such fun bogosities as "post-abortion syndrome" (the idea that having an abortion will inevitably lead to PTSD and insanity), and promotes mandatory waiting periods and misinformation guidelines that can be insurmountable for poor or rural women--even those forced to make the most heartbreaking choice because of a nonviable pregnancy. In fact, one of their biggest causes isn't feminist at all--they actively promote the idea that the best choice for women is to stay home as fulltime mothers, and it can be well argued that the only traditionally feminist viewpoint they really support is women's suffrage!One of the big things FFL promotes is deceptive "pregnancy counseling centers"--where pregnant teens are forced to essentially listen to an altar call on how "abortionists want to murder their children" whilst a pee-stick test clears--and if she tests "yes", she gets a hard-sell to keep the child or to check herself into a dominionist-run "halfway house for teenage moms" where she will ultimately be forced to sign her kid over. (Yes, there is an entire private adoption industry in the dominionist community--mostly focusing on adopting out the infants of poor teenage mothers who have been forced to give their kids up and who have been either scared into it or checked into such facilities by their parents.)Ironically, FFL itself is rather a "stealth" organisation in and of itself--yes, even the dominionists admit this. Interestingly, despite their claims of being more "moderate" than most anti-abortion groups, very few real solutions are offered on how they intend to fund such things (which can be boiled down to "CHOOSE TO BREED").Palin's links with Campus Crusade frontgroupsPalin's linkages don't stop there. In Kaylene Johnson's book Sarah: How a Hockey Mom Turned Alaska's Political Establishment Upside Down (2008, Epicenter Press) it's mentioned that Palin was head of the local Fellowship of Christian Athletes branch in her school--up to and including leading team prayers.It is helpful to know a bit of FCA's past history to know why this is a matter of concern. FCA is, in fact, a known frontgroup of the coercive dominionist group Campus Crusade for Christ--yes, the selfsame Campus Crusade that has such close links to the Assemblies of God that it can be described as a "conjoined twin" of the Assemblies and the same one documented as having links to an ever-widening prosyletisation scandal in our Armed Forces. FCA also gets quite a lot of cash from de facto Assemblies funding-front Hobby Lobby--a chain, of note, that has bailed out a neopente university and has even funded paramilitary "Joel's Army" groups targeting teens.The links between FCA and a particular Hobby Lobby frontgroup, Bearing Fruit Communications, are particularly close. At least one member of Bearing Fruit's board of directors (T. Ray Grandstaff) is a former Senior VP for Fellowship of Christian Athletes.Regarding FCA itself, the group has been linked to dominionism in numerous ways; they are well known for "bait and switch" evangelism (in fact, they and Athletes in Action are among the two groups most frequently banned from public school campuses due to bait-and-switch "altar calls" marketed as anti-drug talks to the school administration). More info here. (Such tactics are a favourite of dominionist groups explicitly targeting youth.) It's also well known (and, apparently, explicitly by design) that Fellowship of Christian Athletes rather aggressively "dominionist-ises" any team they are let into (this tends to be bad even within the NFL, but even more so within FCA groups run in colleges and high schools).Of particular note, FCA has close links with the US Air Force Academy religious coercion controversies (and is but one of multiple Campus Crusade frontgroups documented by Military Religious Freedom Foundation as involved in military religious coercion scandals), and the ACLU has had to fight them since the 60's because of religious coercion (in particular, Jewish people tend to be targeted, according to the anti-cult group Rick Ross Foundation); in addition, it is explicitly supported by dominionist groups, and explicitly partners with other dominionist groups targeting youth (including Chi Alpha (an Assemblies of God frontgroup), Campus Crusade for Christ, and even scarier groups like "See You At The Pole" (infamous for, among other things, nailing people's names to crosses and "praying" over them to essentially curse people in the name of Christ to convert or suffer) and Council for National Policy).And finally, the dominionists themselves like herAs expected, many if not most of the dominionist groups in the US have given explicit approval for Palin on her anti-abortion bona-fides alone--including Concerned Women for America, Focus on the Family, and a pack of the more extreme dominionist anti-abortion groups.I'm not the only one to have noticed the rather extensive dominionist bona-fides--Pastor Dan over on Street Prophets has noted this as well. Frederick Clarkson over on Talk to Action has also noted salutations from two other dominionist leaders--one being Kenneth Blackwell, who was the "dream candidate" of neopente dominionists in his home state (fortunately, he lost the gubernatorial election). Chip Berlet has also noted on Talk to Action a further endorsement from Eagle Forum--the oldest dominionist political group aside from "The Family" and the Assemblies-linked FGBMFI.In addition, it would seem she may well have quite a bit of approval from dominionists in general--that is, if the barometer of the Texas GOP Convention is to be believed. (The Texas GOP is one of the most thoroughly steeplejacked GOP conventions in the US; many of the official party platforms are indistinguishable from Constitution Party platforms.) The Houston Chronicle reports:
"It's a slam dunk. I think that people who are concerned about 'How conservative is Mr. McCain' are now going to say, 'If he can make a choice of Sarah Palin, then he can be trusted with our conservative ideals,' " said delegate Cathie Adams, Republican National Committeewoman-elect and president of the Texas Eagle Forum.
. . .
"I always thought he needed to pick a woman," said Harris County Clerk Beverly Kaufman, former president of the Texas Federation of Republican Women. "I think Hillary Clinton's campaign stimulated a lot of interest among women voters, and I think this is going to hit a chord."But Kaufman added: "I look forward to learning more about her." She also noted that Palin is considered to be against abortion rights, and McCain "thought he needed to satisfy that wing of the party."
Here's hoping this article starts shining a little bit of light on the subject--the last thing we need a literal heartbeat away from the Presidency is a ninja dominionist. http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/8/29/163234/559/495/579213 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ I wonder what Sarah Palin thinks about the situation in Pakistan or the Balkans or Lebanon?
I wonder if she is a foreign policy, realist, or a neoconservative or a liberal internationalist or perhaps even a paleo-conservative like Pat Buchanan who she was once strongly supported?

I wonder if she would have any idea whatsoever what these terms mean.

I could be wrong. You can't always judge a book by its cover. Perhaps Gov. Palin is a real foreign policy buff and spends her spare time reading national security and foreign policy journals. But somehow or other, and not to sound too elitist, but I kind of doubt it.

The late Tim Russert had a reputation for putting would-be presidents on the spot and sometimes embarrassing even somewhat knowledgeable people.

It would seem like sometime soon she will be asked some of these questions, perhaps on Face The Nation or Meet the Press or even in an open press conference.

I wonder how she will handle questions like:

Gov. Palin, how do you feel about Russian objections to the expansion of NATO into Eastern Europe and areas of the former Soviet Union?

Gov. Palin, how do think the U.S. should help facilitate peace talks between the Israelis and the Palestinians?

Gov. Palin, much of Latin America seems to be rejecting American supported free trade policies. Do you consider this a serious development?

Gov. Palin, with the departure of General Pervez Musharraf, Pakistan seems to be going through a period of tremendous instability. What do you feel the United States can do to promote stability in this nuclear armed nation?

Just what does Gov. Palin know or think about any international issues?

[NC_Nurse]

37. Scary folks.

[sudopod]

40. dogemperor's posts scare the wee-wee outta me. nt

[GliderGuider]

41. What does the fact that she was selected tell you about the intentions of the power brokers?

Speaking as an outsider, I'm convinced that Sarah Palin is the true intended access point for the power-holders in your nation. Her selection is in keeping with the principles of the Powell Memo and the tenets of Disaster Capitalism, and represents the continuation of the process the power-holders pioneered through the selection of Dick Cheney. Her elevation incorporates all the lessons they have learned in the last 50 years about the vulnerabilities of the American people and how to use those frailties to position themselves at the unassailable heart of power.

Palin's choice is not a fluke, not a miscalculation and certainly not a mistake. It sends a clear and incontrovertible signal to those who can read it. For me, the message is that the corporate elite is preparing a final consolidation of their stranglehold on the American body politic. Palin was carefully chosen to be the sympathetic and malleable instrument of that consolidation. Her lack of political gravitas is being used for misdirection, and her theocratic aspirations are what make her useful.

McCain is a useful idiot, who is being used simply to get Palin into the correct position.

Palin's selection scares me shitless.

[moodforaday]

44. Bingo

I think you got it exactly right. "Access point" is a great term, btw. She's not a Dick Cheney - this time they picked someone who's superficially likeable and who won't appear to be calling the shots. But she'll do what she's told.

And with Palin being an avid hunter, I wonder if she and Cheney ever went shooting quail together? Or played the Most Dangerous Game?

[MadrasT]

59. Spot on.

You have put into words what I have been feeling in my gut. Scary shit, indeed.

:kick:

[Nikki Stone1]

45. THIS is the stuff that has to get out there!

:kick:

[kaygore]

47. Thank you for pointing this article out

[trickyguy]

49. With five kids I thought something wasn't right with Sarah and now I know.

[AntiFascist]

52. K&R, this needs to be given broad exposure...

people in general probably do not want a repeat of the insanity that overtook the Bush Whitehouse.

[seemslikeadream]

54. I'm sorry I did not see this thread before I posted

Too busy defending myself from being a cold blood fish eater

[jeff30997]

55. On paper Canada was a British Dominion until 1982...

Does it mean that we're religious freaks? :scared:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canada

[JBShakes]

56. Yikes.

Scary. I need a hug and a shower.

[depakid]

57. "would not only criminalise abortion but the IUD and hormonal birth control methods...."

Yet do you think we'll hear word one about this from the Obama team?

I doubt it. They're too bust pandering to fundies themselves. If they manage to blow this one, I hope the women in this country remember and keep ALL OF THEM far from any political power in the future.

The blood will be every bit on their hands for failing to fight as it will on Republicans for, well- behaving like fundamentalist Republicans.

[Kermitt Gribble]

58. K & R If they steal this election

and one of these grilled cheese sandwich worshipers is in the White House for another 4 - 8 years, I'm leaving the country.

[D23MIURG23]

60. K&R

[MadrasT]

61. Just read for the second time

Kicking again. R'd the first time.

I can't believe I wasted time in other threads getting bent out of shape over whether or not she lied about a pregnancy.

If this is true... I can't even bear to think about it.

That's it. I'm going to the local Obama office and signing up for whatever they need me to do. I'm in PA so it looks good for us right now... but "looks good" doesn't cut it.

I'm so scared of the prospect of this woman getting into the White House, I will even PHONEBANK for Obama if I have to. And I would rather do almost anything than call a stranger on the phone.

:kick:

Edited for typo.

[Jackpine Radical]

63. Wow, I did a little Googling around--those people are seriously nuts!

Todd Bentley
Canadian Todd Bentley, who preached for months on end this year in Florida, is a general in Joel's Army.

LAKELAND, Fla. — Todd Bentley has a long night ahead of him, resurrecting the dead, healing the blind, and exploding cancerous tumors. Since April 3, the 32-year-old, heavily tattooed, body-pierced, shaved-head Canadian preacher has been leading a continuous "supernatural healing revival" in central Florida. To contain the 10,000-plus crowds flocking from around the globe, Bentley has rented baseball stadiums, arenas and airport hangars at a cost of up to $15,000 a day. Many in attendance are church pastors themselves who believe Bentley to be a prophet and don't bat an eye when he tells them he's seen King David and spoken with the Apostle Paul in heaven. "He was looking very Jewish," Bentley notes.

Tattooed across his sternum are military dog tags that read "Joel's Army." They're evidence of Bentley's generalship in a rapidly growing apocalyptic movement that's gone largely unnoticed by watchdogs of the theocratic right. According to Bentley and a handful of other "hyper-charismatic" preachers advancing the same agenda, Joel's Army is prophesied to become an Armageddon-ready military force of young people with a divine mandate to physically impose Christian "dominion" on non-believers.
Todd Bentley healing

"An end-time army has one common purpose — to aggressively take ground for the kingdom of God under the authority of Jesus Christ, the Dread Champion," Bentley declares on the website for his ministry school in British Columbia, Canada. "The trumpet is sounding, calling on-fire, revolutionary believers to enlist in Joel's Army. … Many are now ready to be mobilized to establish and advance God's kingdom on earth."

Joel's Army followers, many of them teenagers and young adults who believe they're members of the final generation to come of age before the end of the world, are breaking away in droves from mainline Pentecostal churches. Numbering in the tens of thousands, they base their beliefs on an esoteric reading of the second chapter of the Old Testament Book of Joel, in which an avenging swarm of locusts attacks Israel. In their view, the locusts are a metaphor for Joel's Army.

[BrklynLiberal]

64. One more kick....

[Waiting For Everyman]

66. I just posted in a similar thread by Joanne88...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=103x379849#379977

I'm glad to see this isn't being swept under the rug.

[Plucketeer]

67. Literally; Holy Crap!

[stark6935]

70. She

will probably keep her baby in a cage.

[underpants]

71. Indeed- Check out this great article on the Dominionists "The Crusaders"

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/7235393/the_crusaders/

Meet the Dominionists -- biblical literalists who believe God has called them to take over the U.S. government. As the far-right wing of the evangelical movement, Dominionists are pressing an agenda that makes Newt Gingrich's Contract With America look like the Communist Manifesto. They want to rewrite schoolbooks to reflect a Christian version of American history, pack the nation's courts with judges who follow Old Testament law, post the Ten Commandments in every courthouse and make it a felony for gay men to have sex and women to have abortions. In Florida, when the courts ordered Terri Schiavo's feeding tube removed, it was the Dominionists who organized round-the-clock protests and issued a fiery call for Gov. Jeb Bush to defy the law and take Schiavo into state custody. Their ultimate goal is to plant the seeds of a "faith-based" government that will endure far longer than Bush's presidency -- all the way until Jesus comes back.

The godfather of the Dominionists is D. James Kennedy, the most influential evangelical you've never heard of. A former Arthur Murray dance instructor, he launched his Florida ministry in 1959, when most evangelicals still followed Billy Graham's gospel of nonpartisan soul-saving. Kennedy built Coral Ridge Ministries into a $37-million-a-year empire, with a TV-and-radio audience of 3 million, by preaching that it was time to save America -- not soul by soul but election by election. After helping found the Moral Majority in 1979, Kennedy became a five-star general in the Christian army. Bush sought his blessing before running for president -- and continues to consult top Dominionists on matters of federal policy.

"Our job is to reclaim America for Christ, whatever the cost," Kennedy says. "As the vice regents of God, we are to exercise godly dominion and influence over our neighborhoods, our schools, our government, our literature and arts, our sports arenas, our entertainment media, our news media, our scientific endeavors -- in short, over every aspect and institution of human society."

At Reclaiming America, most of the conference is taken up by grassroots training sessions that supply ministers, retirees and devout churchgoers with "The Facts of Stem-Cell Research" or "Practical Steps to Impact Your Community with America's Historical Judeo-Christian Heritage." "We're going to turn you into an army of one," Gary Cass, executive director of Reclaiming America, promises activists at one workshop held in Evangalism Explosion Hall. The Dominionists also attend speeches by supporters like Rep. Katherine Harris of Florida, who urges them to "win back America for God." In their spare time, conference-goers buy books about a God-devised health program called the Maker's Diet or meet with a financial adviser who offers a "biblically sound investment plan."

[underpants]

73. Okay now this is making some sense. This has a "Council of Elders" element to it

as in there was a sit down with McCain or his staff and the powers that be in the Family and other Christian Reconstructionist/Dominionist organizations told him that he HAD to put one of their people on the ticket.

Frightening

[Waiting For Everyman]

77. Here's the straight-talk from Joel's Army...

William Branham, an early pioneer of "Latter Rain" concepts, believed that it was possible to achieve such complete "oneness" and intrinsic unity with God that truly "holy men" - "Master's of the Faith" - could create ex nihilo through the use of their own words. These are the supermen of the "Manifest Sons of God," the "Manchild Company," the "First Fruits," "Joel's Army," the "Overcomers," the "New Breed," etc. - and it's no coincidence that these supermen of the "Christian Faith" bear a striking resemblance to the supermen of Hitler's Third Reich.

...
The "Faith" and "Latter Rain" supermen become "kings in life" and the "bondage breakers" for the rest of the human race. Indeed, the claim of the "Faith" and "Latter Rain" theology that God is intent on creating a "master race" of "bondage breakers" is exactly the claim made by Himmler's SS - and one may be making a very grave mistake in thinking that the "supermen" of this form of Christianity differ to any great degree from Himmler's SS - after all, what is one to think when Jack Deere of Vineyard International says,

"When this army (i.e., Joel's Army) comes, it will be large and mighty. It's so mighty that there's never been anything like it before ... "begin the SLAUGHTER and begin it in the temple (i.e., the church) and begin it with the elders, the leaders of my people". And they walk through the land and they start and they begin to SLAUGHTER ... He has already started the SLAUGHTER ... and it is coming now among the church. He'll start with the leaders, but he'll move out into the church (and beyond)."

Many will say that we are bending the truth too far in drawing a parallel between what Jack Deere is saying here, and what Hitler predicted in 1933. Of course, in 1933, people said the same thing about those who tried to point out the fact that Hitler just might be serious in what he was saying. Words are words, and more often than not, they convey EXACTLY the meaning they are meant to convey. It's only those who don't want to hear what's being said that try to "water down" the meaning of such words and say that people don't really mean what they have so plainly said.

http://www.antipasministries.com/html/file0000123.htm

[Historic NY]

82. The MSM will never go near the stuff thats popping up...some vetting.

[Doctor Panacea]

84. Pointless

It is pointless to post when there are already over 140 replies, but here goes with a technical point:

I think the author means "Trojan horse," not "stalking horse," which is something else entirely.

[AntiFascist]

95. Perhaps a "pale horse"...

you know how right-wing nutcases get stuck on certain things from the bible.

[soleft]

88. The article refers to something called Joel's army

But doesn't explain what it is or means.

Also, aren't Dominionists the ones that believe our laws should follow a strick interpretation of the Bible, including the death penalty for homosexuals.

[Swagman]

89. wow-sounds like the Nazi's "baby farms". Facism sneaks up on you

[Douglas Carpenter]

90. one more important kick for the next shift

[sattahipdeep]

91. Erik Prince Wet Dream....Sarah Palin

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qfgt3kmv-Hg&eurl=http://www.huffingtonpost.com/robert-greenwald/erik-prince-blackwater-w_b_30235.html


Oil on the water

choose wisely.

[Douglas Carpenter]

94. one last kick

[madeline_con]

97. "I have frequently strongly defended Evangelical Christians ..."

Later.

[Alexander]

98. kick

[Douglas Carpenter]

99. and another

[LeftishBrit]

100. kick

[kath]

101. Kick - everyone needs to read the links in #12 and #23, at a minimum.

plus the Rolling Stone article.
Far too few people are aware of the dominionist crowd.

what you don't know about these people CAN hurt you.

[Ghost in the Machine]

102. Kick: because this is an important thread

[SmokingJacket]

103. Another kick.

Extremely important!!!

[HousePainter]

104. kicked

[kath]

105. Kick - one of the most important threads of the past few days. Or months.

OR...

[kath]

106. kick

again.
Others are linking to this thread, better if it's on one of the top pages.

Hopefully word is getting out there. The fundamentalists (these kind, anyway) are NO joke.

[kath]

107. This thread has been here for 4 days, but it's as important as ever.

more and more people are becoming concerned about her religious fringi-ness, and this thread and its links give very good background info.

[MilesColtrane]

108. Debate question for Palin:

Hypothetically, by some turn of events you become President and Jesus Christ returns from heaven and comes before you commanding that the Earth be destroyed. Do you launch all of the United States nuclear weapons?

[Disturbed]

111. Sarah, the PIt Bull, Palin is the most dangerous possible VP

ever! :scared:

[Dogtown]

110. Too late to recommend

:kick: