Nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American people

[louis c]

As H.L Mencken said.

First off, Obama never even hinted that the lipstick and pig metaphor had anything to do with Sarah Palin. But the Rove run Republicans knew they could sell it to the American people. "If the lie is big enough and it is told often enough, people will believe it". But more than that, say it first.

Why are Democrats at a disadvantage in national politics? Because we think the American people are smart. We appeal to them on well thought out issues. You know, boring stuff like equal pay, minimum wage, health care and jobs.


When McCain used the same time worn metaphor about the pig and lipstick in criticizing Hillary's health care plan, we never thought of this trick. We knew what he meant. No one even considered shouting "John McCain is calling Hillary a pig".

The Republicans know how stupid the average American is, and then by definition, half of them are dumber than that. They cater to that stupidity, and capitalize on it. If this tactic doesn't work, how else do you explain how so many working class Americans vote against their own best interests?

[MadMonkey]

1. we still got this thing

but FIGHT!!!!

[cherokeeprogressive]

2. "how stupid the average American is" Dog DAMN I'm smarter than the Average American.

Go ahead and insult American citizens as a whole and see where it gets ya.

This Obama voter says you'll be better off putting out fires with gasoline.

[melody]

4. If you took this post, swapped out "American" and replaced it with any other nationality

You'd be accused of bigotry and the accusation would be correct. It's as wrong to generalize about Americans as it is to generalize about any other nationality.

[louis c]

6. Explain Bush to me then

Not once, but twice.

[melody]

7. First, he was finagled into office by the Supreme Court -- Gore won the election

The second time -- IF you believe he won at all (I do not; do a search for election theft on DU for information) -- 49% of us didn't vote for the monster. So you're going to condemn all the people who are fighting against him along with the others? How is that fair?

[louis c]

10. He shouldn't have received 20%

20% of Americans still believe Barack is a Muslim.

A majority still believe Saddam was connected to 9/11.

40% still believe that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction.

Face facts. The American public is either ill informed or misinformed, and they like that way.

how many people do you know brag about, "never watching the news or reading the paper", yet have an opinion? Based on what? Hearsay?

Wake up and smell the coffee. I'm up in New Hampshire talking Barack all day, twice a week. I sit in on union COPE (Committee on Political Education) meetings. We all hear the same shit from our members. They should be soldiers in the Field working for a Democratic victory, and we have to spend precious time convincing them of what's in their best interests. I can just imagine what it's like talking to the people who work at Wal-Mart.

[melody]

16. You face facts

I talk Barack every day, too. I also do phone banking. The USA has five times the population of Great Britain (don't get me started on some other countries in Europe) -- we will always have 5 times EVERYTHING. We're also a vast country with lots of places for people to have fallen through the cracks. That's the responsibility of the government to provide education ... to provide basic abilities at critical thinking. Since BushCo took us over, we've had our government gradually destroyed -- including the educational system.

"The American public" isn't any one thing. In fact, that idea suggests ignorance by its simple statement. Bigotry isn't merely morally wrong, it's intellectually wrong. What makes it wrong (in both senses) to say about a minority makes it wrong to say about a perceived majority. And as we've already said, half the country IS aware and IS a conscious voter. You simply want to feel better than someone. Go right ahead but it doesn't make it true.

Now have your last word (which you will *insist* upon having) and let's bring this discourse to a close. I don't waste time debating things with people who embrace their prejudices. Welcome to my ignore list.

[cherokeeprogressive]

17. You are still one of my favorite posters... n/t

[melody]

22. And you're one of my favorites, too n/t

[louis c]

18. Don't break my heart

Why do a majority of Americans vote against themselves? Because they're smart?

[leftchick]

56. because they are DISTRACTED by the US media

I happen to agree with you. Most americans are used to sound bites for "information" and love their American idle shows for hours.

Example: I have a very good friend, registered Democrat, loves her shows..... Ramsey's Kitchen, American Idle, Etc, ad nauseum. She was over the other day having a drink with me and we were talking about McCain, I mentioned sebveral of his so called gaffes that we all know here very well. She dropped her jaw and asked how I knew all of that stuff! I said from the internet because our corporate owned media will never tell the truth. She was pretty shocked and I was dismayed yet again at the lack of curiosity among our population, even with smart folks like her.

:(

[Cerridwen]

8. "...the White House will be adorned by a downright moron."

"The Presidency tends, year by year, to go to such men. As democracy is perfected, the office represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. We move toward a lofty ideal. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last, and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron." (Baltimore Evening Sun, July 26, 1920)

Henry Louis "H. L." Mencken (September 12, 1880 – January 29, 1956), was an American journalist, essayist, magazine editor, satirist, acerbic critic of American life and culture, and a student of American English. Known as the "Sage of Baltimore", he is regarded as one of the most influential American writers and prose stylists of the first half of the 20th century.

Wow, Americans critical of Americans. What a novel concept.

Whatcha got about Jefferson, Franklin, Paine, Adams, and Hamilton?

[melody]

20. I agree with that statement

We have a real problem with uneducated, anti-intellectual idiots in this country. But we aren't ALL like that -- in fact, a good half of us aren't like that. When you generalize, you damn those people who don't conform to the stereotype and then you launch into bigotry -- just as certainly as the freedom fries idiots do when they knock France. Do Keith Olbermann and Robert Anton Wilson and yes, Adams, Jefferson, Franklin and Hamilton -- then automatically become idiots because there's some moron in Alabama? When bigots say "black people are -- ", they are talking about ALL black people. Sometimes they'll counter it by saying "oh, there are a few good ones". When someone says "American people are -- ", they are talking about ALL Americans. And just so, the comment is countered with a weak-kneed defense of "well, there are a few good ones." Bigotry remains what it is.

I've had this discussion a million times with you, Cerridwen. We'll just have to agree to disagree. If you want to hate 300 million people for no reason, then be my guest. I'll choose to give the rest of humanity the benefit of the doubt. I fight against my prejudices with EVERYONE.

Have your last word and I'm hiding this thread.

[Cerridwen]

23. Hide away.

I'll respond later to those who don't have to hide.

[louis c]

26. I'm sure all Germans in 1930 weren't stupid

but they gave us Hitler in an election, anyway.

I hate to generalize, but I'm going to guess that they were not too well informed as voters either.

[melody]

28. It shows you that even the most intelligent people can be fooled ...

Including the elite Germans who thought everything was springtime (now watch me launch into a Mel Brooks musical).

And so, good night.

[louis c]

31. Good night

Remember, we're all on the same side.

but it does get frustrating out there.

[provis99]

33. uh, that was 1934, not 1930. I'm beginning to see the root of the problem.

[louis c]

40. September 14, 1930, FYI

the Nazi's rose from the ninth largest party in Germany to second........

Look it up.

Link:
http://www.historyplace.com/worldwar2/riseofhitler/elect.htm.

[Dorian Gray]

70. Good post

melody!

[louis c]

29. Take it up with H.L. Mencken (NT)

[provis99]

32. other counties leaders are as stupid as Bush, Reagan, or Palin?

give me a break. The rest of the world wants Obama to be President in overwhelming numbers, while McCain/Palin are running neck and neck with Obama in America. Americans are just stupider than other people, and maybe we should find out why, rather than get defensive.

[cherokeeprogressive]

34. "stupider"

The defense rests.

[louis c]

37. Compare America to America

In the days of FDR and Truman. Or when they caught on to the Republicans in 1932 and didn't let them near the government again for a generation.

Even Ike was for working people. Americans voted their pocket books, not nonsense.

we've lost our way, not compared to other countries, but compared to our own history.

[melody]

41. No, Americans are not "stupider" than other people

I've outlined why in other posts. You might go read them. I detest prejudice no matter who the subject of the bigotry is -- what makes it wrong for one, makes it wrong for all. If you merely want to hate a group of people, be my guest, but it doesn't make you less of a bigot.

Keep believing what you like.

You might get a book called "America Reconsidered" by a French behavioral psychologist. He was stunned by various things he found in the book, when he went in to verify the "stupid American" concept. It might surprise you.

Now that I'm re-answering the same damned questions, I really will hide the thread.

Anyone who wants to hate on Americans, go check out my other posts. If you still want to, I can't help you.

I should add there's a manifesto written by a white supremacist entitled "Why Blacks are Stupider". What makes those contentions utterly ignorant and uninformed does the same thing to your comments.

[louis c]

5. Who do you think that "pig" thing is aimed at?

and why does it work?

Gore invented the internet. Republicans used that stupid line and it worked.

Kerry really wasn't a war hero,. All that shit was planned so he could run for President.

now, this whole Palin phenomena, and "Obama called her a pig".

Come on. If we don't face facts, that we have to realize who our audience is, we'll never beat these guys.

H.L. Mencken lived in the 1920's. He said that, not me. Prove him wrong.

[geek tragedy]

9. The key is to treat them like morons without

them knowing you're treating them like morons.

Which really isn't too hard, since they're morons.

[louis c]

11. That's my point, exactly.

but first, you have to accept that they really are not informed at all.

[geek tragedy]

12. McCain does, Bush did, and so did Bill Clinton.

Bill generally wanted what was best for them, but he knew that a little "I feel your pain" went a lot further than a ton of "I know how to solve your problems."

Obama, well, hopefully he'll be taking notes tomorrow when Bill tells him what to do.

[SammyWinstonJack]

61. ...

:thumbsup:

[Agent William]

3. Agreed!

I never count on the American electorate to pull through for us. I was actually pleasantly surprised in 2006. By voting in McCain they (average American) will be punished beyond there gravest nightmares. It's just to bad most of them will blame the democrats for their misfortune.

[louis c]

13. Thanks.

for getting my point

[cherokeeprogressive]

15. What was your point other than "the average American is stupid", and half are even more stupid? n/t

[louis c]

19. To recognize that

we have to simplify our message and bring it to level that we would consider condescending.

When i was in journalism class, I was told to write to an eight grade level by a journalist who lectured us. He understood that we are not writing for each other.

when I speak to voters, I'm shocked that I must first educate them before I convince them. If someone tells you the Iraq was involved in 9/11, how long do you think it takes to convince them otherwise? Stuff that we here at DU take for granted, most voters never heard of.

[Greyhound]

14. When you're not running for office you can speak the truth.

:kick: & R

[louis c]

21. The Daily Mirror gets it.

[Greyhound]

50. The whole freaking world gets it, we are alone.

Goodnight:kick:

[ShortnFiery]

24. Wake up! It's not the Average Hardworking American but the Corporate Media that spins the lies ...

and obfuscations.

Stop blaming the people and realize that we have NO free press ... just mostly Corporate M$M journalists ... serving their few masters who OWN the Media.

[louis c]

27. I feel it's the people's obligation to find the facts

A true democracy needs a well informed electorate. If a majority choose to remain ignorant, we all suffer for it

[ShortnFiery]

30. I guess that you don't have to work two jobs trying to make ends meet?!?

Not everyone has the luxury of being able to RESEARCH alternative news sources like us political junkies.

Even working people who are INTELLIGENT can only afford dial-up connections.

It's so easy to judge but people are coming home exhausted and have only the Corporate M$M as their closest resource.

[louis c]

35. No, I work 3

I spend an hour in the morning on this damn computer before work.

I don't spend time watching Oprah or sports.

I think being informed is an obligation. That doesn't make me smarter, it actually makes me dumber, since ignorance is bliss.

[ShortnFiery]

38. Good for you. Then I request that you consider not judging your fellow American so harshly.

Just as I "jumped to a conclusion" about your station in life, perhaps you may be over-generalizing a tad? ;)

[louis c]

47. Are you kidding

I'm not talking about every American voter, but the results of the last 28 years speak for themselves, and I'm including the DLC President Bill Clinton, who gave us NAFTA and free trade.

In the last 100 years, our three best presidents (in my opinion), who did the most to help working Americans and brought about real change in both economic and social equality are Franklin Roosevelt, Harry Truman and John Kennedy.

what those three Presidents had in common were that they were North-Eastern or Mid-Western Democrats. Those sections of the country grew real populists and progressives. Democrats from the South have to move to the right to get elected. That's not "generalizing', that's just fact.

Every other president for the last 100 years was either a Republican of a southern Democrat.

That's why I love Obama. He's a real Democrat, and we haven't had one in 45 years. There are Americans of full maturity that can't even remember what is was like to live in America with a real Democrat in the White House.

Now, before you jump all over me about Bill Clinton, I will concede that, for President, any Democrat is better than any Republican, in any circumstance. But, FDR, HST, and JFK would never have given us the trade agreements that started us down the road to the current economic disaster. Remember, that House Speaker Dick Gephadt, a Missouri Democrat fought Clinton tooth and nail on NAFTA. Clinton pushed that deal through with only one third of Democrats in favor, and nearly every Republican. for all the good Clinton did, that was his darkest hour, and he split from traditional Democratic values.

[Greyhound]

36. True, but don't they bear some responsibility for buying it over and over?

It's been almost 40 years fer crying out loud. They buy the shit the media shovels and beg for more, and when a little truth does leak out, these hardworking Americans revel in it's destruction.

[readmoreoften]

39. No because it's 80 years of military research on neurolinguistic programming and hypnosis.

90% of Americans supported Bush after 9-11. They have it down to such a science that they've just shown that if you hear something you know to be lie more than five times you are likely to disbelieve yourself.

Couple this with the fact that there are no real solutions being offered other than 'shaming' the greedy, 'protesting' them, and 'voting them out' on machines we're pretty sure are rigged in a system we're pretty sure is rigged.

[louis c]

42. People get the government they deserve

[ShortnFiery]

43. Yes, and if you wish to lash out at any one entity, do it to "The Ministry of Truth" = our M$M.

When or if we can break up the large media conglomerations, just perhaps we may be able to provide actual NEWS to the voting public. It's a long shot, but I refuse to "blame the American People" as a whole. They are being fed this tripe.

[Greyhound]

45. But again, we've been subjected to the same media and the same techniques.

Sheer repetition should be sufficient to convince them.

The system was developed for an interested and informed population and the tools for them to remain so have always been available, if they are not informed and interested, it is due to their own negligence.

Consistently denying what is observed will never result in positive change, we have to accept it and decide that it must be changed, only then can we talk about what to do about it.

[SammyWinstonJack]

62. Glad to have been one of the 10% who didn't support him. Actually proud to have been among the 10%

Not watching the faux media circus memorializing the anniversary of 9/11 today, either. :puke:

[ShortnFiery]

44. The only person I can "hold accountable" is myself.

Hell, I can't even make my teenager do anything unless I can effectively communicate/motivate them toward that goal.

It's fatalistic to blame "the people" because although we are imperfect, we can do better at communicating with each other.

We must do better for those who come after us. :shrug:

[Undercurrent]

25. .

[AndyTiedye]

46. I Am Sure Obama Will Get The Votes of Every Thinking American

[louis c]

49. That's what scares me

are we a majority?

[farmboxer]

48. Average American is ignorant

but so many are hurting, waking up, let's hope they finally find out who is hitting them on the head over and over again.

All Obama Campaign needs to do is show McCain's voting record

over and over and over again, proves McCain is a damned liar over and over and over again! McCain's voting record makes him look like a lying piece of fecal matter, which he so is! Show McCain lying, show his voting record on paper, really shows what McCain is all about, lies, cheating and just anything dishonest. Show voters proof that McCain is a liar! McCain's lies will destroy him, esp. if the MSM will come clean about their man McCain, but then, how can they get out of it?!

McCain is against healthcare, social security, medicare/medicaid, VETS, education, free speech, peace, unions & all working people, McCain is against the truth, issues, against lower gas prices, against solar energy, all alternative energy. McCain is FOR the military industrial complex, oil companies, billionaires/millionaires, war profiteering. big drug companies, ad infinitum, so saith the Pope!

Way too much to post, could go on all night! It is a no brainer! I have been changing people's minds in doctor's offices, at the gas pump, etc. Just show them the truth. There are some hard core idiots who will always vote Republican because their parents were such, etc., but..........SICKO at the doctor's waiting room works. People who go to the doctor hate America's health care system, many have to wait for hours, they want it to change ASAP. Always remember, the Republican corporate owned mainstream news media is for McCain and so many have not gotten the truth. I also leave a copy of "The Nation", etc., tell them to visit DU. Some still believe that Obama will not face the US Flag! They need to hear the truth! McCain is Bush!

[chknltl]

51. Spotted at the RNC:

[Mind_your_head]

52. Awww.....all of us smart ones are Democratic. Don't discount/dismiss us!

You dismiss us at your peril :evilgrin:

[louis c]

58. There is a difference between smart and knowledgeable

I talk politics all day long, its part of my job. I only have an associate degree. some people I talk with have Masters in business. When we talk about the war, I bring up the tribal diversity of Iraq and the balfour declaration in 1920. I might as well have two heads. They laugh. I'm not smarter. they make more money. they have a higher degree of eduction. they're not to busy. One guy golfs three days a week while I work 7. I'm cetainly not smarter. I just have more knowledge of the issues.

[pampango]

53. I just love the "Repubs think you're stupid. We KNOW you're stupid" line

with voters.

[louis c]

65. we don't think American voters are stupid at all

That's why we lose presidential elections all the time.

[pampango]

68. The whole "one person, one vote" is really an overrated idea. Democracy might have

been a good idea in the 18th century, but it doesn't work anymore. People are more stupid now than they were back then.

Do I have the argument down right? ;)

[louis c]

71. No you don't..........

We have to convince people in a way that we find distasteful. We like to think we're on the side of the angels. The other side knows what people like to hear and that's emotional dirt.

we don't like to play that game.

We have a majority of americans who say they "like" Sarah Palin, and they never even heard of her 3 weeks ago. That's what we're up against.

Stupid people get to vote, but we have to accept that they are stupid and proud of it.

When Bill Clinton won, his mantra was, it's the economy, stupid.

We emphasized the economy part. Maybe Bill Clinton won because inside his campaign, they knew the stupid part was what to focus on.

[lostnfound]

54. The British did; but back then people read books and talked; didn't watch idiot box.

The independent spirits of the revolutionaries were nurtured by Thomas Paine's "Common Sense".

Our work environments today often make political talk forbidden, people are listening to the idiot box instead of their neighbors, and the media has created The Great Divide.

[lostnfound]

55. The British did; but back then people read books and talked; didn't watch idiot box.

The independent spirits of the revolutionaries were nurtured by Thomas Paine's "Common Sense".

Our work environments today often make political talk forbidden, people are listening to the idiot box instead of their neighbors, and the media has created The Great Divide.

[stuntcat]

57. Everyone should be offended

People should be offended that those people want to tell them how to interpret Obama's words as insults. Ratardicans are desperate because they don't have ANYTHING right x( If they win I'm giving up on people forever, just thanking my lucky starts I figured the world out before I had a baby.

[alarimer]

59. People are so fucking stupid in this country.

They may be stupid everywhere but they are really stupid here. Evidence: American Idol, reality TV in general, supermarket tabloids, etc.

They believe Palin's lies over anything Obama says. They believe he is a Muslim (and they think it is a bad thing also).

Something like 60% of the people do not believe in evolution. Well, THEY certainly haven't evolved. Morons.

[LanternWaste]

60. I guess I'm in a bit of a minority here....

I guess I'm in a bit of a minority here as I tend to think that when it comes to those things which directly affect the day-to-day lives of most people, we're not really any better or any worse in what we may or may not know.

I myself have been called ignorant by a friend of mine who plays the market. He starts talking about derivatives, trends, buying short, etc., and my eyes begin to glaze over. He tells me this is stuff I NEED to know about, much like I tell him politics is stuff that he NEEDS to know about. We've both come to the conclusion that it's simply different interests and priorities on out parts.

For myself, it seems that everyone I've ever come in contact with knows things about life, the universe and everything that I had absolutely no idea about.

I think I'm pretty dumb compared to most people-- but I'm the first to admit that. My grandfather told me one time something to the effect of, "the smartest people I've ever met never realize how bright they really are. The dumbest people I've ever met go on and on about how stupid everyone *else* is..."

[louis c]

64. We are all ignorant of some things

Ignorance is not an insult. I don't know music, medicine. engineering, farming and on and on.

Ignorance is different than stupid. stupid to me means the inability to learn. Ignorance is just not having the knowledge of a particular issue, idea or profession.

But to be deliberately ignorant to matters that affect your life, well, that is stupid to me. to choose a political candidate or party based on anything other than all the knowledge you can gather is a total enigma to me.

to send a child to war without knowing every single fact about the situation is amazing. to vote for a candidate that has a direct bearing on you and your family's well being, without being as informed a possible, is simply, well, stupid.

the problem I have is that I have to live with the same consequences as they do, no matter how much knowledge I acquire on the subjects. I don't get extra credit for understanding labor law, the balfour declaration, or how our political structure works. One man, one vote. The knowledgeable are equal to the ignorant. that's democracy, and that's what scares me. We can only try to convince our fellow citizens. That's it. but if they refuse to listen or don't care, we all sink together.

[LanternWaste]

69. What may or may not affect our lives can be very subjective

What may or may not affect our lives can be very subjective at times. And my pal has a valid point-- the markets do indeed directly affect my life in a myriad of ways. And as I deliberately ignore putting any concentration or brain power into researching the markets, I suppose that I am by definition "stupid".

[GreenEyedLefty]

63. I think the common denominator is not so much stupidity as religion.

Not to offend religious people on this forum, but there are some "believers" with whom you cannot reason. They vote for people who *appear* to share their "values." That is why Sarah Palin has energized the Republican base. It doesn't matter how much you lie and cheat as long as you are appropriately Jesusy.

[HCE SuiGeneris]

66. As sad as that statement is...

I am afraid I have to agree. :sigh:

[louis c]

67. I'm not happy about it either

and I don't think we will lose. but, we can't think we can convince a majority of Americans with nice nice.

We have to hit hard and smart. Keep it simple, stupid.

When Clinton won, his slogan was, it's the economy, stupid. Don't underestimate the stupid part of that saying.