The 2008 Election in a nutshell

[Taverner]

For the logically-challenged

This is life under Obama:



This is life under McCain/Stalin:



Any questions?

[JackintheGreen]

1. Sorry.

Ideologically I'm with you. But this is as over-the-top as KO's special comment last night. :eyes:

[Taverner]

2. What? Wow you hate the truth don't you

Most Republicans fear the truth....

Enjoy that Pizza

[JackintheGreen]

4. Are you fucking serious?

DBaD

[Taverner]

5. Nice try, freepman

[JackintheGreen]

9. Wow.

Just wow.

Who the fuck are you to make judgments on me. I may not be 1000+ man, but I've been here a long fucking time, posted a lot of fucking posts, and have never been anything but a pro-democrat liberal progressive. Please, find me anything I've ever posted that is even remotely freeperesque. One fucking thing.

I'm done with you now.

[MiniMe]

11. Check the join date, he has been here since 2004

Not that he couldn't be a freeper and be here since 2004, but doubtful. He is probably a Lionel listener, Lionel has been going off on Olberman lately. He absolutely hates him.

[JackintheGreen]

13. To whom was that directed?

Taverner? In my (sort of) defense? If so, thank you. But we've been here about the same length of time. I think Taverner is 4/9/04 and I'm 4/5/04. And for some reason I lurked here for a long time before I joined. I don't remember why.

[MiniMe]

14. Yes, for Taverner

I disagree with you on what you posted, and I gave my reason in another post. But everybody we disagree with is not a freeper.

[Taverner]

16. Sorry there's been a lot of Freepers here lately

We can agree to disagree on both

[MiniMe]

17. Agree there is lots of freepers lately.

Sometimes it's too easy to assume if the poster disagrees with you. I've done it myself. And I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you, more with him on the KO point. But he did post a good response below, so I'll give him the benefit of the doubt. The true freepers will know how we feel when they try to come and cry fraud to us in November and we say "Obama won, get over it". I've been waiting 8 years to say that to somebody. :hi:

[Contrary1]

6. What did you consider over the top in KO's comment? n/t

[Taverner]

8. This little freeper thinks calling McCain on his BS is over the top

[JackintheGreen]

10. Two things, really, since you ask

The first is really minor, but it jarred me. About 3.30 minutes in, when he is talking about the "commemoration" video, he begins showing some images with a caveat along the lines of "these are the only pictures a responsible media outlet would ever show"...and then he goes on to show the picture of a shape - maybe a person - plunging 1000 feet (to his death?). That picture has always disturbed me. I guess it is supposed to. But it captures a horror in its bid for us to imagine what that moment must have been like, the contemplation of a certain, slow death by fire and suffocation or the somewhat quicker death by impact - and what those final seconds must have been like. For me, still one slide too much.

The second is more substantive. It is the claim that John McCain is aiding and abetting Osama bin Laden. This, I think, is as ridiculous a claim against the GOP candidate as are any he and his surrogates make against ours. I cannot believe that KO seriously thinks that McCain has a secret plan to capture bin Laden but will only unveil it if he is elected. It is a campaign ploy, and an ugly one, and Keith is correct in calling McCain out in it. But if we really are to elevate the political discourse in the nation, we cannot stoop to wild-eyed accusations. And it is.

McCain can be attacked on the substance, on the very fact that is *is* no more than a ploy. And he can be attacked hard. But to say he aids and abets terrorists? Over the top. This is ineffective hyperbole. This is, frankly, histrionics of the worst type.

KO's critique towards the end is more than fair: John McCain uses terror(ists) and 9/11 to instill fear in the people whom he wishes to vote for him, and this is odious. Calling bullshit on his slogan "America First" is more than fair. But to equate him, essentially, with the likes of Salim Hamdan as an aider an abettor of terrorism is over the top.

My (freeper) two cents.

[MiniMe]

12. I'll take on the 2nd one

McCain has said boasted about and campaigned on that HE can catch Bin Laden, he has been over there and he knows how, and where.

I'm sorry, but that is McCain going over the top IMHO. The first time I heard McCain say that my very first thought was Why don't you tell Georgie-boy. Because if you know all of that and you haven't shared it, that is just wrong.

Thinking about it now, if he hasn't proposed his plan already and he knows how and where, I would argue that he is guilty of treason. Do I understand that it is all just campaign bluster? Yes, it probably is. But if you think about and follow that claim through, it just reeks.

[JackintheGreen]

15. I agree. We're debating matter of degree.

McCain's claim is also hyperbolic. But call him out on that. Do not say that he aid and abets terrorists, because he doesn't. Say he manipulates the American public. Say he exaggerates, or even lies. But aid and abet is too strong a charge to make. KO is better than that, and we are better than that.

[ixion]

7. No, what's over the top is our government's behavior over the past 7 years

THAT is over the top, among other things.

[Vincardog]

3. Sorry; you are correct if we have a filibuster proof congress under Obama.

KO was right on in his comment