ATTN: Michigan Voters and others re: fraudulent mailing

[MiniMe]

Just heard this on Thom Hartman's show, he has a guest host today. People are getting absentee ballots in the mail that they didn't request. They are coming from the McCain campaign and they include a postage paid envelope to send the "absentee ballot" back to the RNC. If you get one of these absentee ballots, do NOT return it. Save everything that came with it, including the envelope, and take it to everybody you can think of. Including your local election board, and your local democratic organizations.

Most of the people calling in today were from Michigan, that is why I specified Michigan in the post title, but I'm sure it is happening in other battleground states also. This reeks of Rove and Election Fraud. Shout it out, spread the word.

[DJ13]

1. Wouldnt a fraudent mailing also be mail fraud?

Take it to your local Postmaster General too.

[MiniMe]

5. Good point.

I'm not sure what the mail fraud rules are. I was more concerned about the election fraud angle. But the postal inspectors don't take kindly to things like this either. Just be careful who you give the originals to.

[dhpgetsit]

2. These crimes are on the same level as treason!

The perpetrators must be exposed!

[wryter2000]

4. Welcome to DU

:hi:

[MiniMe]

7. Welcome to DU

:hi: Yes, the perpertrators need to be caught and exposed. But this needs to be spread around to warn people too. This worries me more than anything else I've heard about the election.

[wryter2000]

3. People called in from other "purple" states to say the same thing n/t

n/t

[MiniMe]

6. I hate to self promote, but bump this up. This needs to be on the greatest page

Thank-you

[flamingdem]

8. Can someone please call the DNC and Obama campaign offices in Michigan to report this?

Please get back to us about what they know, or do not know about it.

Thanks for posting this, the numbers game is everything, they will stop at nothing.

[CitizenPatriot]

9. k & r nt

[tandot]

10. K & R

[CitizenPatriot]

11. p.s.

Please alert older people as well who may have trouble reading fine print.

Alert retirement homes and elderly care homes.

I am sure that is part of the scam.

[Politicalboi]

46. I would advise

Them not to fill it out since the return address is flakey. It will probably screw you up if you file that form and try to do it right later. They might not let you correct it. The Obama team needs to get people mobile so they can take people who can't get to the polls. They should have a drive pool in districts everywhere. I would be willing to rent a van for the day just to take people to vote.

[seafan]

12. Hartmann's show: Absentee ballot applications are being sent out to Dems in FL by the McCain crowd.

Some Democrats in Florida are reporting that they've received these absentee ballot applications. (And it ain't because McCain wants Obama voters to vote.)


It looks like caging if the voters don't *comply* with these applications, leaving them vulnerable to vote challenges. Also, the return address on these applications is a mysterious PO Box, according to a man (Democrat) on Hartmann's show today, who called in from Cape Coral, FL.


This appears to be mail fraud.


Also, with Florida being in the top 3 states for home foreclosures, I would bet that the McCain crowd is also attempting to use that to disprove a current address for the people who lost their homes.


I can't help but seethe when I think back to how many years we have been screaming to get someone's attention in Washington about the massive, repeated, ongoing GOP election theft.


This is all a freaking nightmare that never ends.

[MiniMe]

15. Thanks for posting this

I'm glad to see a lot of people think this is just as important as I do. This thing scares me more than anything else I have heard about the election.

[JBoris]

13. Are these people sure that these are actual ballots?...

I (in FL) have received a "Official Absentee Ballot Request" which includes a pre-addressed form to the County Supervisor of Elections. Unless they are talking about a different mailer, there is nothing illegal here.
Though I would really like to know how the McC camp got my address.

edit: omitted word/typo

[MiniMe]

14. Check the return address with the actual County Supervisor of Elections

If you didn't request it, the validity of it is questionable. Especially if it came from the McCain campaign. They don't want Obama voters to vote. I should ask was it really from the McC camp who mailed it to you?

[JBoris]

18. Checked County Sup of Elections address, it is correct...

and yes it is from McC's camp, has his correct return address (Arlington, VA Campaign headquarters). Also says "paid for by John McCain 2008", and has his ugly mug on the front.
The mailer also has a web address for more info www.johnmccain.com/AB which redirects to https://secure.johnmccain.com/ActionCenter/ABEV/

[MiniMe]

19. Thanks for checking for us. Is there any way you can post a copy of it for us?

There is something very suspicious about McCain sending out absentee ballot requests to Democrats. I wonder if Florida has the fix in to ignore absentee ballots? Sorry I'm so suspicious, but I just don't see the McCain camp spending that much money to send something out that encourages people to vote?

[JBoris]

21. Sure, I can do that. It'll take me a bit to scan it. nt

[MiniMe]

25. You're the best. I forwarded your response for somebody on a local election

board because they are worried about what is on those ballots and to look and see if they are really generic. I really think this could help. :hi:

[JBoris]

28. See my reply # 27, I can scan my actual mailer later on, but you can check out the downloadable...

forms for now.

[JBoris]

32. Scan:

Not the best quality scanner, but seems to be clear enough to read. Personal info is blacked out.

Side A




Side B




edit:

here is a link to my Sup of Elections web site, which has the PO box address listed:

http://pbcelections.org/content.aspx?id=14

[MiniMe]

33. Thanks for the scan, it does look pretty generic except for all the McCain

propaganda on it. Read the post a few below here about the republicans sending out voter registrations in Florida in 2000, and the problems they had with it. And why are they sending out all of these requests for absentee ballots? Unless they are somehow counting on the absentee ballots not being counted in Florida. There is still something strange going on.

I appreciate the effort you went to to post this. :hi:

[MiniMe]

34. JBoris

Can you check what you got and see if this applies to what you got?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=7030342&mesg_id=7030342

[JBoris]

40. Not really, but...

I haven't moved recently, so the first part doesn't apply. My mailer actually had two names on it (two absentee forms side-by-side), correctly identifying the two adults registered to vote in my house. One indy one Dem both donated to Obama (I also donated to Hillary after she started campaigning for Obama in FL recently). My first thought was that they somehow got lists of registered voters, b/c both names on my mailer, they listed full middle names. I am 90% sure neither I, nor the other voter in my house gave middle names when donating to Obama, I simply never give it for credit card transactions. In NEVER get junk mail with my middle name, so I am really suspicious as to where McGramp's camp got my (our) full names and address.

[EC]

42. If I'm seeing it correctly that is not the right PO box # compared

to the one you provided the correct one is 22309 and the one on your mailer is 22000 so you are incorrect the PO Box is different...

On Edit: Hope you didn't mail it in...

[JBoris]

43. A) I would never mail in anything that McNeocon sent me,

and B) I guess the scan isn't clear enough on your screen, on my screen (and on the actual mailer), both addresses clearly read 22309.

Again, I am more concerned about how my address (and possibly voter reg info) got into the hands of the McC camp.

[D23MIURG23]

22. Don't rule out incompetence.

But yeah, it is more than a little weird.

[JBoris]

27. Actually better than me scanning it ...

you can enter in bogus info for a given state on McC's site (at the address given on my mailer www.johnmccain.com/ab ) and you can see the absentee ballot/early voting request form from many different states. Just enter info and it gives you a PDF to download. It also lists the address they want you to mail it to on the download page.

If you still want me to scan mine I can do that a bit later. In the meanwhile, I found this (blurry) pic from a Missouri mailer (which is different than my FL mailer) : http://www.flickr.com/photos/jarretmichael/2846819173/

[csziggy]

29. Remember one of the questionable activities in the 2000 election were absentee ballot requests

Printed and mailed out by the Republicans that were almost completely filled out except for the voter ID number. Rather than throw them away, the Seminole County Supervisor of Elections called the local Republican office and allowed their operatives into the Supervisor's office. There, they were left in a "secure" area unsupervised and allowed to "correct" the absentee ballot applications, No record was kept of the ballot applications that were altered by the Republicans and there was no way to know if the Republican operatives did anything other than that while left unsupervised in a room that was ordinarily not open to the public where voters' files were kept. In Martin County, the Republicans were allowed to carry away ballots to complete them.

G.O.P. Played Role in Absentee Vote - http://www.nytimes.com/2000/11/14/politics/14SEMI.html?ex=1221278400&en=e66a09a83609d66e&ei=5070
Republicans Bear Down on Absentee Ballot Suits - http://www.nytimes.com/2000/12/02/politics/02ABSE.html?ex=1221278400&en=301eab6ade87a9f2&ei=5070

The cases stem from a practice common to both Democrats and Republicans in Florida: to increase turnout, the parties mail partly filled out applications for absentee ballots to voters who support their candidates. The problem was that in Seminole and Martin Counties, the Republicans sent out thousands of applications that lacked the necessary voter identification number. If no action had been taken, these applications would have been rejected.

But with just weeks to go before the election, Sandra Goard, the supervisor of elections in Seminole County, gathered her staff at the elections office and told them that the Republicans had a problem, several of her employees said Thursday in legal proceedings. She told them about the incomplete ballot requests and directed them to set the flawed forms aside, the employees said in depositions taken on Thursday in preparation for the court case.

Then Ms. Goard allowed Republican party functionaries to camp out in her offices for as long as three weeks, so they could add the missing identification, the depositions said.

Her counterpart in Martin County, Peggy Robbins, acknowledged this week that she let the Republican Party take away several hundred of the flawed forms. A party official there said the forms were taken to local party headquarters, where the missing numbers were added.

[MiniMe]

31. I wish I could rec your post

Thanks for that info.

[csziggy]

36. Thanks! Anytime I can supply good info, I try.

[Ilsa]

16. I wish someone could scan one and post it here. Not that I am in Michigan,

but it would be good for everyone to see what is out there.

[MiniMe]

17. It isn't just Michigan that this is happening in.

I agree, it would be good to see what it looks like.

[MiniMe]

38. Here ya go.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=3975675&mesg_id=3977146

[MiniMe]

20. Kick

[mile18blister]

23. I heard callers from WI, MI, PA, FL

there were even a couple of callers from NC and IL (the IL caller had just moved from WI). Folks we are looking at massive vote caging.

[MiniMe]

24. Either caging or something else. Whatever it is, I'm betting fraud

There is no reason for McCain to spend money to send this stuff out to the dems, especially with postage paid envelopes to send it back in, unless it will benefit McCain's campaign.

[Raksha]

26. kicking...

:kick:

[MrMickeysMom]

30. K&R'd... stay on target, stay on target!

Cross threads...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=3975296&mesg_id=3975296

[PeaceNikki]

35. I got one yesterday and threw it in garbage, unopened. I'm in WI.

[Bozita]

37. There was a MI SC ruling a year or so ago that forbad election officials from mailing absentee...

... ballots without a signed and notarized request (read application) from the voter.

Sounds like the GOP in MI is breaking the law, bigtime!

Bushco wants the DOJ to go after election fraud. This is their chance.

[bertman]

39. K & R

[noonwitch]

41. If I get one, I'm sending it to my congressman

Or maybe to Jack Lessenbury at the Metro Times.

[Supersedeas]

44. bottom of the barrel filth

[leftynyc]

45. How do you know it's being sent

by McCain? Is there any proof of that? I'm leary of making accusations without some evidence.


Edited to add: never mind - I see the scanned culprit above.

[MiniMe]

47. See JBoris's scan in post 32

It has McCain all over it.