I am hurting and broke

[prolesunited]

therefore others around me should feel the same pain I am feeling. We should cripple the country so that everyone goes through the hell I'm been through.

[AllieB]

1. Yup. Sounds like a lot of the posters here.

They want to see the whole system go down, and don't think of of the repercussions not only to their neighbors, but to the world.

[BlooInBloo]

3. Yup.

[FreakinDJ]

7. Is 1 week enough to know this is TRUE

Remember the lead up to Iraq and Bush making reference to "Mushroom Clouds"

No body has broken this thing down truthfully enough for the average citizen to get behind

[Indiana_Dem]

11. It's been going on for 5 years at LEAST.

I've been reading about it for a long time. It's the stupid conservatives and their ideology of deregulation along with their dominance in the legislative and executive branches that have allowed this to go on as long as it has! They waited until Paulson had to step in to say it's a crisis before anyone would do anything about it. Up until last week, McCain was STILL saying the fundamentals of the economy are strong. I believe the conservative right wing would keep up the facade as long as they coul The treasury couldn't stay silent much longer after all the bank failures in the last year. They couldn't hide it anymore.

[FreakinDJ]

17. But is Paulson's $700Billion solution the only way

So far the Dems have reduced it to a $250Billion dollar buy out - at least for now. But is buying out Wall St the only solution

Of course its not and we all know we need "Real Regulation and Accountability". This Bill doesn't even scratch the surface of what needs to be done to Save America much less Paulson using these funds to Bail Out Asian Markets too

[Indiana_Dem]

21. Obama did say we needed to do a lot more but not on this bill.

I believe if he gets into office he will do what he can, as well as a Democratic congress.

[FreakinDJ]

32. But the Repubs are duping the Dems into taking Credit

for this mess of a Bail Out

Nancy Pelosi herself is being credited for "Brokering the wording" that broke the dead lock on the bill.

The Ratpublicans are going to spin this as the "Great Democrat Give Away"

Just wait until John E. Taxpayer finds out this Bill does not stave off a recession. It just makes it so the Banks and Wall St. don't feel the pinch

Obama (if he gets in) will be quagmired in public controversy

[wtmusic]

2. You didn't borrow enough.

If you had taken out a fourth on your overvalued house, you wouldn't have to sell your jet ski.

[Indiana_Dem]

4. Are you on any medicine? Need healthcare?

No jobs means no health care coverage and no medicine people might need to stay healthy and/or alive. If you don't need medidcine or health care then they'll be experiencing a worse hell than you've been through.

[Pastiche423]

29. I have no healthcare NOW

What difference will there be?

[Indiana_Dem]

35. Well, the hospitals would get to the point where they could no longer

eat the costs of all the people without healthcare, so they wouldn't be able to afford the staff or the medicine or supplies, and if equipment breaks down, they wouldn't be able to fix it because they wouldn't be able to get any credit because they would have no money because the patients couldn't afford to pay anything and so it goes on and on. It's all connected. That's where the difference will be.

on edit and disclosure: I'm an RN working in a hospital

[Pastiche423]

40. What part of I have NO healthcare do you not understand?

[prolesunited]

45. That is wrong and everyone should have health care

I think we need to work to remedy that. But are you really advocating that others should have no access to health care because you don't.

And the rich will always have health care. They will not suffer in a downturn.

[Indiana_Dem]

46. From my experience which may not be yours--

I work at a non-profit hospital and we serve everybody even if they don't have health care. Hard luck cases are usually written off. Things would probably be different if things decline like described above.

[snappyturtle]

5. I know the feeling. It's not great here at all. I'd like to see the people

who had a hand in this, probably thousands, pay. But, that's not going to happen. If the country is crippled our pain will only last longer and I'm ready for it to quit like yesterday.

[bkkyosemite]

6. I feel your pain.........just know that we are in it together if that helps a little ..

[Buttercup McToots]

8. Oh huney...

I am so sorry...
Tis verry tough here also...

Dunnae ask tae spread yer pain...
just ask fer help tae relieve it...

Miracles can happen...

[Lil Missy]

9. .......

:spray:

[Sal Minella]

10. Which Wall Street Bank are you, anyway???

[melody]

12. So we shouldn't pay for something for our own protection, regardless of who caused it to happen?

Just because someone else started the car rolling, we're supposed to just let it hit us?

[lligrd]

13. I Am Not Hurting And Broke

Therefor, I am willing to sell out all those that are in the false hope that I will never have to suffer as they do.

[dchill]

19. A valid corollary.

As far as I know.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

23. Those You Speak Of Do Not Do So Out Of Selfishness. They Do So Out Of Intelligence And Care.

The same cannot be accurately said for the other side of the equation.

[lligrd]

36. I Fail To See The Difference nt

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

14. You think you got it bad now? Wait 'til the politicians send you a bill for $700bn.

But, they'll slap some lipstick on it and tell you that it's for your own good.

[Cerridwen]

15. Really? Lost any teeth lately because you can't afford a dentist

but don't qualify for any government help?

Got a cyst on your face that keeps you from getting a job but which you can't have removed because you have no insurance or your deductible is more than you can afford?

How far are you behind on your rent or mortgage? Car payment? Insurance?

Got any savings?

Have you had to choose between rent/mortgage and food yet?

Try selling one of your cameras you use for photography and get back with me. The things I listed above are real life problems for some of the 98%. They/we are the lower portion of the 98%. Glad it's not hit you yet.

Please, tell me the difference between losing money from your 401(K) and losing a place to live or the means to feed yourself or the means to maintain your health? Can you even imagine the difference?

edit to add: please read your sigline out loud to yourself a few times.

[nini]

26. self delete

. deleted..never mind

[yellerpup]

16. I just dug myself out.

I went without health insurance from 2001 (no jobs after 9/11!) until year before last and almost starved to death because of a medical condition. I had no debt then went $30K into the hole with moving and medical expenses in trying to get somewhere I could get a job and insurance which ended up using ALL my savings. My 401K lost 80% of its value and I had to cash it in and pay a 10% penalty and that's all I had to live on. I lost all my back teeth! I am well enough now to work part-time (as a volunteer coordinator--I ain't getting rich) and I just stocked up my pantry for the first time since the spring of 2001. I'm sorry you're hurting and broke but I sure as hell wouldn't wish my experience on you! I hope you will reconsider your suggestion to 'cripple the country, etc..." Bitterness won't make you whole.

[prolesunited]

18. I am sorry for your troubles

I've been in and out of poverty since a child. Right now we are in a pretty lean period ourselves.

That said, I'm just parroting the anger and bitterness I've seen here. I don't hold that in my heart.

Crashing the system will NOT hurt those on the top. In a Depression, the rich just get rich as they acquire all of our assets for pennies on the dollar as the rest of us desperately try to hang on.

Change is definitely needed as our present course is not sustainable.

But crashing the system will just make more people suffer like you. I don't agree with that course and don't see how Dems could be advocating such a course. People will literally die as a result, and it sure isn't going to be the rich or those who created this mess.

[yellerpup]

20. I'm okay now. I hope you are, too.

You are right about the crash effecting the most vulnerable among us. We have to be diligent and look out for each other. I'm hopeful. I'm happy to have a job I love and feel lucky in many ways. I wish the very best for you and for all who are suffering in these frightening times. It really could be so much worse. Thanks for your concern. I know you have a good heart! I've been around here for a while. :hug: :hi:

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

22. Sounds So Blatantly Retarded When Viewed At The Sentiment's Most Blunt Core, Don't It?

Some people just can't see through their own selfish bitterness...

[Waiting For Everyman]

24. We're going through this b/c we didn't care that others were wiped out.

This could've been stopped two years ago. Even a year ago. Even last winter.

This is karma. This comes from all the people who didn't demand that something be done about millions of people being foreclosed, or living without health care, or being thrown out of jobs by the hundreds of thousands for "global trade" b/c their pension funds wouldn't go up as fast.

Eventually, its circles will widen out to swamp all. That's the lesson of this. And if you don't know it yet, you soon will.

[prolesunited]

31. I agree it should have been started long ago

But I don't see why we should hope that more people's lives are destroyed. And, no, I'm NOT one of the lucky ones. I've lost my job for the second time in three years and we're only hanging on by a thread.

BUT, I don't wish this on anyone.

Let's try to stop the hemorrhaging and then start reforming the system. I think getting Obama and more Dems in office is a good start.

[HughMoran]

25. Heh - you've noticed that too huh?

:freak:

[UTUSN]

27. K&R n/t

[Not the Only One]

28. that's not why I oppose this idiotic bailout

This bailout is for people who are gamblers. They understood the risks in gambling their money. Now, they want federal tax dollars to make them whole after their losses (or imminent losses). Heads, they win; tails, you lose. That is not fair. It is fundamentally unfair.

[prolesunited]

30. Life is not fair

Do you know how many people have their retirement money tied up in the stock market? How many people need loans for college? How many jobs that already have been lost and how many more to come?

The "gamblers" have enough money to ride this out without ending up in the street. The vast amount of Americans don't.

I hated the idea when it was first presented, but I think the Dems have put in enough safeguards in place to protect the taxpayers.

[Not the Only One]

41. Then just send bailout checks to those people who need the money

If you're about to retire and your savings have dried up in this mess, send them a check. If you need a student loan, use the money to create a loan fund. Fuck, anything is better than the current solution.

[snappyturtle]

42. Read section 119. Judicial Review and Related Matters

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x4116021

[lligrd]

37. Yep, And The Vast Majority Fell For It

Including putting retirement accounts into it. This will be fool me twice. History is to learn from but many of us are poor students.

[SammyWinstonJack]

33. But those CEOs who walk with multi million$$$ golden parachutes won't go hungry. Never worry about

that!

[prolesunited]

34. In the current bill:

Democrats won new, unspecified restrictions on CEO pay and executive compensations for participating companies.

So, I don't think your point is valid.

And, if this doesn't pass, it's not like those CEOs will be rendered penniless anyway. I guess the government can just seize all of their assets and property. Is that what you're advocating.

If there is fraud, prosecute and jail them. But the fact is, most were working within the law as it was structured. It sucked and lacked any moral footing as they outsourced America and screwed so many, but you can't escape that they did nothing illegal.

Now, let's work to change the system and bring regulation back to capitalism.

[lligrd]

38. Unspecified Restrictions? What The Hell Does That Mean? nt

[lonestarnot]

39. Well since the restrictions are not specified, they don't exist.

:shrug: No restrictions. :shrug:

[snappyturtle]

43. You'll never convince me they didn't know what they were doing.

Illegal? I'm not an attorney but I know what they did was immoral. They knew.

[prolesunited]

44. Immoral definitely

That's why the "free" market needs stringent regulation. Corporations do not deserve personhood as they do not have a conscious. They are neither moral nor immoral. They exist solely to make money.