If this bailout fails, I am going to lose my job.

[Hugabear]

I might not lose it today, or this week, but the company I work for will probably begin laying people off very shortly if this doesn't go through.

I have a feeling that if this doesn't happen, there will be a LOT of us out of work shortly.

[supernova]

1. Welcome to the club

I've been in IT since the early 90s. Since 2000, I've been laid off three different times. ... by the same company!

[Not the Only One]

3. How is that possible?

I thought IT was the place to be. What are the dynamics of the job outlook for IT that would explain your situation? Is there a saturation of people with IT skills? Why aren't IT people in high demand?

[JTFrog]

15. The problem is outsourcing. n/t

[Not the Only One]

20. But he was rehired.

[JTFrog]

25. So was I. Only to have that job outsourced later. And so on and so on. Never ending revolving

door for me since 2001. And lots of down time in between jobs. Not to mention all temporary contract positions with no health care provided.

You seriously don't understand what outsourcing has done to the IT field?

[supernova]

30. People are clueless about what corp america

has become.

We IT folk are the canaries in the coal mines.

It's about to hit financial services. That vaunted "services" economy that wasn't supposed to go away.

[WhaTHellsgoingonhere]

90. Bingo! Bye bye financial services

I had a 90 day contract as a commercial credit "analyst" (pfft). Thing is, these days all documents are scanned to make an electronic file and the software performs the analysis. Those jobs have now been sent to India.

[reggie the dog]

67. you are a prime example of why

so many of us gen Xers grow and sell marijuana or other drugs to supplement our incomes. The drug money is a constant, jobs come and go.

[liberalpress]

100. Until of course your customers have no money to buy.

Once they've lost their jobs. Let us know how that goes

[reggie the dog]

105. I don't sell

I was talking about my dealers, once people like me cant buy anymore they will be screwed but so far they are ok. You would be amazed how drugs/alcohol sales are the last to drop off though.....at any rate many people in my generation cannot find long term jobs like our parents were able to.

[iheartmulletz]

83. Now it's getting very interesting because how about insourcing?

Many posters on DU are sympathetic towards illegal immigration and I have argued with people I know that it has a devastating effect on poor Whites and Blacks. For instance, the hotel industry used to employ many poor Black women. I am sure some supported families by working in that field, but when the Republicans (big business driven) pushed for illegal immigrants to come in droves, it was to bust the unions.

Now that white collar jobs are being sent away, it is affecting another sector and now they will feel what others have had to feel unfortunately. I had this very discussion with someone whose husband makes a lot of dough.

[FatDave]

50. Me too, 45% of my previous salary.

[OhioChick]

62. Bingo! n/t

[supernova]

28. Try being a contractor

[FatDave]

53. You mean that deal where...

Where they give you no benefits, they can cut you at any time, and you pay double the social security? Of course even though you're a "contractor" you have to work on their schedule, attend their meetings, acknowledge their corporate hierarchy....

[Mika]

56. Try being in any manufacturing business in the US.

Even US dental laboratories are dropping like flies. Well trained dental technicians who dedicated their lives to producing high quality restorations for a minimal financial return are now shit out of luck.

Large corporate labs are taking over the business by laying off their US technicians and outsourcing to China if not building their own labs in China.

Of course, some of these Chinese made dental restorations are contaminated w/lead, cadmium, and other toxic elements mixed into the alloys/resins/porcelains.

Not to worry though, the (US) National Association of Dental Labs ( nadl.org ) and the ADA are both developing protocols to 'ensure' that Chinese outsourcing is safe :eyes: and that the US labs that employ lifelong well trained technicians at a fair wage can get fucked.

Its getting harder and harder to do the right thing every day.




-

[OhioChick]

61. Companies keep complaining of a "shortage" of skilled U.S. workers

when there isn't one. It's all about cheap labor.

Study: There Is No Shortage of U.S. Engineers

http://www.eweek.com/c/a/IT-Management/Study-There-Is-No-Shortage-of-US-Engineers/

As for the banking situation:

Bailout won't keep Wall Street from sending jobs offshore

http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&taxonomyName=knowledge_center&articleId=9115638&taxonomyId=1&intsrc=kc_top

[OhioChick]

60. I hear you on that one. n/t

[Cooley Hurd]

2. You're right...

Sadly, I don't think the 700B band-aid will ultimately work...:(

[gateley]

4. Barney Frank said essentially the same thing --

And I'm sorry if I'm not seeing the big, long-term view, but I'm afraid for right NOW.

:hug:

[Truth2Tell]

68. Frank said he'd be out of work?

Only if it passes.

[tuckessee]

5. Who is "us"?

I can't feel sympathy or joy unless I had an idea what you do for a living.

It may be a tragedy that your jobs disappear. It may be a good thing.

[TZ]

8. how is job loss a "good thing"?

Wow..just wow...:wtf:

[tama]

37. For example:

A professional torturer (killer/liar/crook/thug/etc.) looses job. How very sad and sympathy for the devil... but... one of eight buddhist moral principles is right profession - a profession that does not cause suffering to other sentient beings.

[TZ]

38. Okay wall street broker= torturer.

Got it.:sarcasm:

[tama]

46. Read again

Just mentioning few examples as answer to a question. I don't take responsibility for your analogy, but it's not unthinkable that there are some causal connections between Wall Street greed and US torture policies.

[Naturyl]

74. Are you a Buddhist?

Just curious. "Does not cause suffering to other sentient beings" sounds like Buddhist language.

[tama]

80. I'm not non-buddhist

But I have not sought refuge in the Three Jewels (buddha, dharma and sangha) so strictly speaking I'm not Buddhist. I do participate in shamanistic practices, though.

[Naturyl]

82. Understood

Thanks for the reply.

I've been considering taking the refuges and officially becoming a Buddhist for a long time. Haven't quite managed to commit to it yet, though.

[tama]

88. Blessings to your path

where it goes and unwinds. :)

[gateley]

9. That sounds pretty cold and lacking of compassion.

Is it a good thing if somebody loses their income, can't feed their family (or even themselves), lose their shelter? I'm in that position right now -- is that a good thing?

[Name removed]

19. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[cali]

11. oh fuck....... (fill in the blank) Disgusting post. get lost.

[MindMatter]

59. Could I try a more polite version of that?

To the OP, please tell us why you think layoffs would be the result. Please tell us specifically what there is in this bill that would relate to your employment in any way.

As far as I can tell, the only way there would be a connection is if you are employed by one of these crooked banks that has been playing casino games.

If your employer is not one of these banks that made loads of lousy loans, then there will be no effect. You ay get laid off or maybe not. But it won't have anything to do with this bailout.

If you have some clear reasons for your position, please state them.

[sufrommich]

21. Are some people more deserving of a job than others????

[Midlodemocrat]

23. Wow. Sure you're on the right forum?

[Hugabear]

29. My company makes luxury items. So you tell me.

I'm sure that I'm one of those who probably "don't deserve" a job in your world.

Go fuck yourself.

[Midlodemocrat]

31. Don't bother with

that troll. Asshole doesn't begin to describe it.

And, I'm sorry. I hope you don't lose your job.

[tama]

41. Well any case

your job (or fear of loosing it?) certainly seems to make you nice and polite to other people.

[TZ]

43. You made the analogy of jobs you disapprove of to TORTURE!

How NICE is that!
Wow. I thought the right had the monopoly on judgemental idiots. Clearly I was wrong.
I sure hope the OP doesn't lose their job and I don't give a crap what they actually do..Thats a bad situation for anyone. ANYONE.

[tama]

48. No

I didn't make an analogy but list of examples. That is just your interpretation, or rather some defence mechanisms interpreting and projecting general issues into personal attack. No worries, I'm not a person.

[Bill McBlueState]

47. normally I don't make fun of poor spelling

But for you, I'll make an exception.

Heh, "loosing."

[tama]

51. Not a native speaker

is the correct spelling "losing"? I seem to make that spelling error a lot, thanks for reminding. :)

And sorry, the joke was lost on me because I'm a foreigner.

[girl gone mad]

73. In that case,

it's likely that your job is in trouble either way.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

102. The super rich usually come out of these things all right

There were plenty of super rich, old money types who survived the Depression quite nicely. The nouveau riche types may not have had it so easy.

[stillcool]

36. Do you think

you might feel empathy when you're out on the street? Now that might be a good thing.

[AngryOldDem]

39. My God.

Just when I thought I'd seen it all.

[LeftishBrit]

45. The disappearance of jobs is NOT a good thing...

especially when it happens as a result of sudden crisis. If some industries give way to others over a long period, there is time for re-training and career changes; but when lots of people suddenly get tossed out of work, that's just plain disastrous.

I remember the mess under the Thatcher regime, with its 'toughness', cuts, and huge unemployment problem - and I presume it was similar under St Ronnie. I don't want any return to that - let alone to the infinitely worse problems of the pre-war Great Depression.

[tama]

64. On a second thought

liberty from wage slavery (=job) doesn't sound so bad. What is frightening is loss of livelihood, inability to satisfy basic needs.

So, what seems to be the real problem is the ability of capitalist to extort people into slavery, with the threat of loosing livelihood.

[grace0418]

55. That is incredibly insensitive, rigid, illogical and devoid of compassion. n/t

[ThomWV]

6. You and tens of thousands (if not hundreds of thousands) of others as well

[Barack_America]

7. If this bailout fails, you'll probably lose your paycheck before you lose your job.

That's something people don't seem to realize.

My mother worked as a bookkeeper for small businesses while I was growing up. So I'm aware of how often small businesses have to borrow money to make payroll while this or that account is waiting to get paid.

This bailout not only means that those accounts are going to get paid more slowly (because they can't borrow), but that small businesses won't be able borrow to make payroll either.

The credit crisis that Wall Street has set up isn't going to "trickle" down, it's going to gush.

[ThePowerofWill]

17. If the bailout goes through and you see hyper inflation.....

it could be about the same. You might get paid, but the paper could be worthless. Imagine a $50 loaf of bread, or $150 gallon of gas.

We may well be damned if we do damned if we don't.

[Truth2Tell]

72. There has been no evidence presented by anyone

that small businesses will lose access to short term credit if this bailout doesn't pass. None. Zippo.

[kstewart33]

10. You and a few million other folks.

Now is not the time to overthrow the government.

Let's get this bill passed.

[El Pinko]

12. There will be a lot of us out of work whether it passes or not.

Sorry to say...

[WeDidIt]

13. I figure I'll lose mine before Christams if it doesn't pass

and I'm not anywhere near the finacial sector.

[SIMPLYB1980]

14. Me to, but don't worry most people here tell me that a complete

economic collapse is a good thing, and just what America needs right now.:sarcasm:

[slackmaster]

16. You and me and a lot of other people, and there is no guarantee we keep our jobs anyway

No matter how success is defined.

[Smart Guy 4 Freedom]

18. Even with the bailout many, many people will lose their jobs.

The only jobs this bailout is saving is banking and finance jobs. Corporations are still shipping their manufacturing jobs to India and China. Bill Gates is still trying to hire as many HB-1 visas as possible. People are still buying crap from Wal-Mart/China supporting foreign jobs. The middle class will still have to pay high gas, food, and energy prices. The minimum wage is still barely above where it was when first enacted (based on inflation adjusted dollars). The American infrastructure will continue to rot and productivity profits will continue to go into the pockets of CEOs.

This bailout will do nothing more than temporarily save the financial sector from a few bankruptcies and make the top richest 400 people in America a lot richer.

Main street will see little help from this give away.

[DemoRabbit]

26. You obviously have no idea how most companies rely on credit

...for the most basic of needs. Like paychecks.

Without credit, we all lose... even if you don't plan to buy a car or a house in the near future.

[DemoRabbit]

22. Company I work for is already on the brink of it's own collapse

Without the bailout, we'll be done within days or weeks.

[mzmolly]

69. Sounds like the position

my husbands company is in.

[ShortnFiery]

24. We are ALL going to lose, with or without this "illustrious" corporate bail out. eom

[Barack_America]

27. We've already lost.

I think that's the take away point.

The average American tax payer WILL pay for this one way or another.

[radfringe]

32. where I am now - 12 in production were laid off

doesn't sound like alot, but 22 in production were laid off in July. the company has 2 plants in town, they are looking to shut down one of them and move everything into the other.

we make large machinery - this is sold to manufacturers. At this point,majority of sales go to companies just starting up. If these "starters" do not have financing, they won't be able to buy our equipment/machines. this is not a US owned company, and it wouldn't take much to shut our place down and do production elsewhere

am I nervous? concerned? you bet

[PVnRT]

57. Less lending = less capital investment

So yes, you would definitely be screwed, given what your plant makes.

[shadowknows69]

33. I have a feeling it will be so either way PIB

Whatever this package will end up being, however necessary, I fear it's just a bandage on a severed artery. I hope for your sake something can be done that doesn't screw the American worker.

[remember2000forever]

34. I'm a Realtor. My Brokerage is closing this week. Although....

I can find another place to hang my license, my heart is not in this business anymore. If I hear one more customer say "I want to steal this house" I am going to implode. My listing customers call me every day in tears. You guys have no idea the sob-stories going on out there. It's so sad.

[DeepModem Mom]

35. I hope not, but I appreciate your realistic statement. nt

[Ioo]

40. Lost mine last week...

[ailsagirl]

78. My condolences-- I know it's tough

[tammywammy]

42. Me too n/t

[ailsagirl]

77. I'm sorry-- that's rough

[tammywammy]

84. A lot of people will be hurt if there's a credit freeze

[ailsagirl]

87. True

[Critters2]

44. Those of us who work for non-profits will feel it.

People will have less money for charitable giving.

I'm pissed at the gamblers who made this mess!!

[ShortnFiery]

49. We're all going to "feel it" no matter what. Help each other: Community NOT Wall Street. eom

[Critters2]

52. Have been moving my investments from Wall Street to charities...

charitable term notes, demand notes, and charitable gift annuities. Slower in building a retutn, but less risky and supportive of non-profits. And no Wall Street assholes to gamble it away!

[mzmolly]

54. My husband was just told the same thing by one of his superiors.

:(

[bean fidhleir]

58. Yours is a very self-centered post.

Your implication seems to be that unless people quickly surrender to extortion, they're being cruel to you.

Yet people lose their jobs every day. Why should you be different? That's the nature of capitalism - to victimize the innocent. I lost my job in 2002 because of age, and at 62 I had no hope of getting another one. Did I post a moan at DU (or anywhere)? No. What would have been the point?

That's life under capitalism. If you don't like it (and who would?) then work for a better system, not for a surrender to extortionists. Because, you know, one of the characteristics of extortionists is that they don't care about anybody but themselves. And if they get away with extortion once, guess what they'll do the next time they want some money.

[SammyWinstonJack]

81. !

thumbsup:

[nini]

86. So we all have to be jobless and homeless to prove a point?

it's also not going to fix anything by fucking every person in this country who is not in the top 2% either.

The deal has to be sensible and fair - but SOMETHING has to be done and I hate it as much as the next guy.

I am so fucking sick of those who have hard times or are in them now assuming people who are afraid of losing what they have don't get it. I have had 2 major crisis in my life where I lost everything and had to start over. I managed to get back on my feet both times. Thanks but I don't want to suffer again just because I hate the fuckers that got us in this situation. If it can be avoided it needs to be.

[bean fidhleir]

104. Of course not. How could you possibly have got that from anything I said?

I tried to point out that the OP's implicit connection between his job and the extortion now being attempted is false.

Even if everyone turns out their pockets, his job could still be lost because that's how capitalism works.

There were no greedy bankers demanding billions in extortion during Reagan's time, yet millions of jobs were destroyed or shipped overseas. How did that happen, if surrendering to the extortionists is the way to save the OP's job?

I lost my tiny business and then my house to foreclosure during Reagan's recession. I've had to rent ever since because single, middle-aged, working-class women without family resources to draw on are at the mercy of the system. We're doing damned well if we can weather the periods of job loss when capitalism's money pump is sucking everything out of our pockets on the upstroke. And sure enough, I lost my next job during Clinton's recession, and then my final job during Bush's first recession. I was lucky - I survived long enough to retire. I had to take a reduction in social security, but at least I have that pittance I can pretty much count on now.

Capitalism's money pump is very efficient - no matter whether it's the upstroke or the downstroke, it pumps money from our pockets into the pockets of the wealthy. Giving in to extortion is not going to change that fact even the teensie-tiniest bit.

If you want to make life better for everyone, refuse to give in to the extortionists. Look past their fearmongering, see what's really going on, and work to change the system.

*WE* are the nation's wealth.

[Hugabear]

96. We're not talking about just one person losing their job

This isn't just about routine layoffs.

We're looking at the very real prospect of MILLIONS of people losing their jobs before the year is over.

If that doesn't scare you, it should.

[petgoat]

63. Lose Your Job? "They" Want You to be Afraid

What's scarier than jetliner missiles and anthrax?

Economic collapse, because it touches everyone, and there's
nowhere to hide.

Just as "They" got us to throw oodles of war at the problem of terrorism,
now "They" want us to throw oodles of dollars at the problem of economic
stability.

Let's not let "Them" stampede us this time.


http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aNKGD.bJwmRA&refer=home

Hundreds of Economists Urge Congress Not to Rush on Rescue Plan

By Matthew Benjamin

Sept. 25 (Bloomberg) -- More than 150 prominent U.S. economists, including three Nobel Prize winners, urged Congress to hold off on passing a $700 billion financial market rescue plan until it can be studied more closely.

In a letter yesterday to congressional leaders, 166 academic economists said they oppose Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson's plan because it's a ``subsidy'' for business, it's ambiguous and it may have adverse market consequences in the long term. They also expressed alarm at the haste of lawmakers and the Bush administration to pass legislation.

``It doesn't seem to me that a lot decisions that we're going to have to live with for a long time have to be made by Friday,'' said Robert Lucas, a University of Chicago economist and 1995 Nobel Prize winner who signed the letter. ``The situation may get urgent, but it's not urgent right now. Right now it's a financial sector problem.''

The economists who signed the letter represent various disciplines, including macroeconomics, microeconomics, behavioral and information economics, and game theory. They also span the political spectrum, from liberal to conservative to libertarian.

[avaistheone1]

65. Rushing through a bad solution will only mean that more people lose their jobs.

This bailout could actually create the depression it is supposed to fix.

[Festivito]

66. PROBLEM IS we all lose our Social Security.

This bailout is a backdoor method to destroy Social Security. WE CAN'T AFFORD TO PAY SS. Will be the new battle cry.

It's lose or lose.

It's trouble no matter what we do.

[nini]

70. I defintely will

The investors we have are already getting nervous and could pull their money at any time.

but it appears if I acknowledge the fact many people will lose their jobs I am somehow a wall street loving idiot now.

[girl gone mad]

71. If it passes, some might lose all of their savings.

It's a real dilemma.

[Truth2Tell]

75. Unless you explain what sector of the economy you work in

your post is utterly meaningless. At this point one must assume you work for Goldman Sachs or comparable - or that that you are simply hyperventalating or fear-mongering. If not, then please explain how you think failing to pass this bailout would impact you, step by step. Thanks.

[PeaceNikki]

89. Bullshit. Unless you're in a government job, there's a real risk.

As has been explained in this post, MANY (if not most) businesses depend, no SURVIVE on a line of credit.

[Truth2Tell]

91. Why do you think small business lines of credit will be impacted by this?

Really? Please explain.

[PeaceNikki]

92. Because I live in this lil place called "reality"

Not just small, but medium and larger businesses as well

http://www.usatoday.com/money/smallbusiness/2008-09-28-small-business-credit-crunch_N.htm
http://www.delawareonline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080929/BUSINESS/809290309/1003
http://www.unionleader.com/article.aspx?headline=Small-business+owners+try+to+ride+out+the+storm&articleId=934adf1e-ac79-4733-ac4a-f1cedf433450

[Truth2Tell]

93. The only facts those articles include

are about the credit crunch. I understand that is real. What I don't see there is how that bailout will make any difference in that crunch. How does this solve that problem? :shrug:

[bean fidhleir]

99. By the look of it, at the moment you're living in corporate newspapers

Which as far as I know are located on Planet Propaganda, quite a distance from Reality.

[Hugabear]

97. Do you have a clue how the real world works?

Our company president told us all recently that if this thing didn't go through, there was a very real chance of the company going under, and that unemployment levels nationwide would be going through the roof. His exact words were "you'll be lucky if you can get a job at McDonalds".

And no, I don't work for a Wall Street firm, I work for a small manufacturing business.

[Truth2Tell]

98. Then your boss watches too much TV. That, my friend,

is how the "real world" works.

[Hugabear]

101. So you think that small businesses will still be able to get loans and credit lines as usual?

Thank you so much for that brilliant insight. Here I was listening to all these so-called financial experts, when I should have just told him that he's watching too much TV.

[Truth2Tell]

103. The so-called financial experts have been split on this.

It's mostly the corporate sponsored TV experts who have been doing the fear-mongering.

Yes, credit has been contracting and will continue to contract.

This joke of a bill would not have helped that. The dumb part wasn't your boss thinking his credit would dry up. The dumb part was believing that this bill would help.

[Naturyl]

76. I'm sorry to hear this. But...

We can't lay out $700 billion, a large portion of which will be nothing but a handout for the rich, to save your job.

And I agree with the person who said that not all jobs are worth saving. Yours may or may not be - but some just aren't.

[WhaTHellsgoingonhere]

79. I USED TO work for...

...a Fortune 500 corp with $7.7B in revenue that employed +48K FTE in 2001 when I was hired. But by the time I got whacked 12/31/07 in just their latest round of "restructuring" (the new euphamism that replaces the now tarnished "downsizing"), that number had dropped to about 42K. Since 2003, a freeze on new hires had been instituted. I've got to say, the coolest thing about getting laidoff at the end of 2007 is that the job market was awash with people who had gotten whacked at the same time, as well as those who had been laidoff in the preceding months. But make no mistake, this Main Street failing was a Wall Street boon, as reflect by the stock price: since 2003, the stock has risen from $21/share to $47 today.

OBTW, prior to my company laying off 2700, 5000 were let go by our leading competitor.

[Cleita]

85. There is a bailout that will work and that is to

nationalize any institution that we have to bailout. This way the government gets the good assets as well as the bad one. This is what the Europeans are doing with their failing money institutions. Once they fix the situation and get the institution back on track as a profit making entity, then they can sell it back to the private sector. This particular bailout is only throwing good money at bad.

[KG]

94. already lost mine. with bleak prospects for another one soon.

and there's no guarantee a bailout will change that.

[johnfunk]

95. EPIC FAIL becomes OUR OPPORTUNITY

Time for progressives to DEMAND JOINT CONGRESSIONAL HEARINGS

Let's get some hearings WITHOUT Henry "Pat" Paulson and Ben "Helicopter Boy" Bernanke.

Let's get Joseph Steiglitz and Nouriel Roubini to give both sides some advice on fixing the Culture of Wall Street Investment Bank Corruption.

CALL! Start with the Senate Banking and House FS Committees.

Senate Committee on Banking
534 Dirksen Senate Office Building
Washington, D.C. 20510
[phone]

House Financial Services Committee
Democratic Staff
2129 Rayburn House Office Building, Washington, DC 20515
[phone]

[ddeclue]

106. Secretary Paulson? Is that you? n/t

[notadmblnd]

107. The company I worked for had a goal of 10% of their employees gone every year

and that was 5 years ago. I got tired of worrying if I was going to have a job every next quarter (yes, they were firing one person for every department every 3 months to meet that goal) I finally said fire me. They did, I haven't regretted it yet.