Let’s be honest about Palin. She’s not evil. She is just a believer.

[King Coal]

She is like the Robert Duvall character in The Apostle. She really believes in the convictions that she believes to be true. She is not dishonest; she is just a knot head. She believes in Pentecostal religion and she believes in the lies of the Bush administration. So, in my mind, I think we are better off to keep that in mind. She is not evil, but she could be influenced to tolerate evil for the sake of her beliefs. And as such, she could be convinced, easily, to do a complete 180.

I say this, because she would be a complete disaster as vice-president, and to overstate the facts here would be a simile to telling children that marijuana will lead them to hard drugs and suicide, in order to keep them from smoking it. I think Palin will probably drop out, and we should let the opposition know that we will let them let her go gracefully, as just a small mistake in vetting. That would be a lot better than her having a chance of being president, especially since they’re going to steal the fucking election anyway.

We would be a hell of lot better off making sure the elections are fair, than making an intellectually lazy ex-beauty queen out to be the evil witch of the North West.

[seemslikeadream]

1. Just a believer with a gun

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lB_Q3ON12Yo

[King Coal]

2. I know lots of women who hunt. That is no big deal.

[seemslikeadream]

6. It's a joke if ya got a minute watch the vid

[King Coal]

13. Ok, I will in a little bit.

[DrDan]

3. absolutely

but you can't post without demonizing her - otherwise you raise the ire of other DUers.

I agree with you completely. Our efforts are better spent insuring a fair election. But I guess it is easier to "hate" her.

[southpaw]

4. Your point is well taken

Especially with regard to the last sentence.

And no, I don't think Palin is evil... but her 'true believer' stupidity would be about as dangerous to the county and the world as Cheney's evil has been. Possibly moreso. Unlike Cheney, Palin doesn't look evil or dangerous. In fact, she looks downright harmless, so she could be given a pass to do even more harm than Cheney has been allowed.

[crim son]

5. I agree. And it's true;

she is just another hockey mom, qualified to be that, perhaps, but not much else. I wish McCain would let her go and make a responsible pick since, as you say, the repukes may well steal the election.

[PeaceNikki]

7. OK. But I contend that radical theology *IS* inherently evil.

[Kitty Herder]

18. My thoughts exactly. nt

[sandnsea]

8. She said thanks but no thanks

to that bridge to nowhere - but whoops, she didn't.

Don't kid yourself, the twit knows exactly what she's doing.

[ShortnFiery]

9. She's f**king evil ... in the Wild Kingdom, she and her ilk are "The Hyenas."

Hyenas: Vile scavengers of the lowest order.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lauriy8DURk

[bigtree]

10. no, she's pretty much evil

she CHOOSES to believe the right-wing nonsense because she's determined to be hateful and greedy. It's part of promoting and preserving her self-interest. She's certainly not a victim or some naive convert. Her 'beliefs' suit her ambitions.

[no_hypocrisy]

11. Beg to differ. She may be a believer, but she is also an opportunist

who is mean-spirited in her pursuit of power. She uses her religion, her "charisma", and her exaggerated sense of entitlement and revenge to get ahead. This is not Joel Osteen. This is not even George Bush. She is a user who also happens to go to church.

[TexasObserver]

12. No, she's really evil.

She's a backwoods redneck with lifelong superstitutions and prejudices straight out of 1952.

[1awake]

39. hey now,

I'm from WV.. not sure you can get any more "backwoods redneck" than that. Backwoods does not = stupid.. it's a choice no different than any other choice.


;)

[n2doc]

14. Prove to me using this logic that Hitler was evil

He believed in his plan, and thought his religion supported his actions. Belief is not an excuse.

Evil is defined by actions, not words. And Palin has already done evil, albeit at a low level so far.

[NNN0LHI]

17. Same goes for Jim Jones

[King Coal]

20. Wouldn't make more sense to prove to you that Palin is not like Hitler.

What Hitler-like evil has Palin already done? What have I missed?

[n2doc]

32. I guess I would rather not find out by giving her the power to do so

I would say her actions on the rape kits are pretty much something Hitler would have done.

She has said she would support attacking Russia, She has said she expects the Apocalypse in her lifetime, I mean really, what more do you want?

And again, how does belief negate evil? Just because she mentions Jeebus all the time?

[wtmusic]

15. She's dishonest as hell.

She's lying about "her" son and she's lying about her influence-peddling, but like most Republicans she sees her lying as morally acceptable. McClellan admits to this mentality in What Happened - it's the Republican MO.

[chupacabranation]

16. I believe if you willfully become evil without self-examination...

...then you are evil.

Hitler's Willing Executioners et al. Kind of a hyperbole but you get what I'm saying.

[The Stranger]

19. No, she is evil. Make no mistake about it.

[Bake]

21. I disagree, the Apostle, though flawed, was a basically good man at heart.

Palin is just a power-hungry idiot who wants to run everyone else's lives.

Bake

[EmperorHasNoClothes]

22. Evil is as evil does.

Beliefs are no excuse.

[WritersBlock]

23. She's a right-wing fundie puppet who is a threat to the country, and that's enough for me.

I've got to disagree about the dishonesty. I think she is extremely dishonest. But I don't care about her personal character as much as I care about the danger she represents to the country because of her beliefs.

[prayin4rain]

24. I think a woman who wants to pass legislation that would make

a twelve year old carry her rapist's baby, even if that rapist is her own father, to term.... is pretty F**KING evil.


“He who passively accepts evil is as much involved in it as he who helps to perpetrate it. He who accepts evil without protesting against it is really cooperating with it.” -MLK

[NNN0LHI]

33. Marking to catch the response to this one

If there is a response.

Don

[billyoc]

25. So's Bin Laden.

[WritersBlock]

26. Good point. n/t

[prayin4rain]

28. Exactly, all fundamentalist are honest believers n/t

[BattyDem]

27. Her beliefs are not the problem.

I don't care what people believe. Whatever makes you happy, whatever gets you through the day, that's fine with me.

The problem occurs when a "believer" tries to use the power of the government to impose their beliefs on everyone else because what they're really doing is taking away freedom. That's evil.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

31. my fear is...

that a believer of her sort uses the power of gov't to try to advance the return of Jesus by creating a world ripe for the Armageddon that they believe will do just that...and I am a believer that Jesus will return (yes, I know people think that's nuts but no more so than a lot of other beliefs...

sP

[Sorceress]

94. Agreed.

She uses her power to support her own personal religious beliefs and what's worse, she is now seeking MORE power!

She may not be evil, per se, but she isn't very nice, in fact, she is down right mean. She is fair game and I don't think I need to go out of my way to show her respect when she so obviously has none for me or my candidates.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

29. actually no, she knows exactly what she is doing

[An Intellectual]

30. Everyone of above-average wealth is evil by definition (they've taken more than their fair share).

She's rich so she's evil. Don't be a Palin apologist.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

34. how does it feel to be evil, oh, internet poster?

because well over half the world does not have access to computers or the intertubes...

so, welcome to your own definition of evil. i will expect you to post no longer...unless you wish to remain evil...

sP

[An Intellectual]

36. It only applies within a given country; it would be impossible for me to live...

... at the world-average wage.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

40. nope...we are all evil in the US

because the US, as a whole, consumes MUCH more than it's fair share. and YOU, my dear friend, are just an extension of that (nice attempt at justification for your wealth, by the way).

now, you can either deal with it...or change it...i bet i know which you will do...

sP

[An Intellectual]

53. Once the government creates price controls on basic necessities...

... such as food, clothing, housing, basic leisure, etc., then neither I nor any true progressive would be opposed to exporting 70%-80% of the nation's wealth to less fortunate nations.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

58. until that time...welcome to evil... n/t

[An Intellectual]

63. It's evil to oppose the price controls and wealth redistribution; it's not evil to...

...be in the bottom half of wealth within the United States. To suggest otherwise is right-wing.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

64. just applying your logic to you

and apparently you don't like that, Intellectual.

sP

[An Intellectual]

71. Do you disagree with the main point? Do you think it's fair for one person to own more than another?

[ProdigalJunkMail]

72. yes, i do

i believe that if one person is willing to work harder than another they should be able to accumulate more wealth. otherwise...what is the point of working hard?

sP

[An Intellectual]

73. That's the right-wing argument.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

74. ah, so now that people can own things

i am right-wing... not much for your name, are you?

sP

[An Intellectual]

76. I'm not saying that you're right wing; you are definitely a moderate, though.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

77. ownership is theft, then?

if that is your policy, cool by me...but no motivation makes for very little work...

sP

[An Intellectual]

82. Ownership is not left. I'm just acknowledging the socially-just notion that it's criminal to...

...own more than average in your country. I don't advocate jail for most offenders, of course; we just need to tax the unnecessary excess at 100%.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

91. the problem is, when you define an average

50% of the people become criminals in your system...

so, if you give someone the right to own, you also have to give them the right to accumulate...and by definition 50% will always be above average. So who has a drive to exceed average if they get nothing for it? i would wager : not many ...


sP

[Cid_B]

92. I am gonna hop in here...

with a resounding YES!

[King Coal]

47. How very intellectual of you. LOL!

[WritersBlock]

45. Actually, I have heard that the Palins are not a rich family. n/t

[NNN0LHI]

49. She sold her last house for $327 thousand dollars. What do you consider rich?

http://www.suntimes.com/news/elections/1190245,palinmayor092808.article

[An Intellectual]

54. Exactly. She's evil.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

59. and by your logic...so are you... n/t

[WritersBlock]

66. I guess it would depend on house prices in the area.

I'm going by what I've been told by someone I've known for 40 years, who's lived in Wasilla for the past 20+ years. I trust this person's judgment and powers of observation. If she tells me the Palin family aren't rich, then I believe her. She has no reason to lie to me, nor is she a great fan of Palin.

[Marrah_G]

84. That's like median house price in my area.

I wouldn't consider that rich or even upper-class.

[cherokeeprogressive]

85. So the Somali herder with TWO cows is evil.

This is a hoot!

[An Intellectual]

90. If he has more than his fellow countrymen? Yes.

[ThePowerofWill]

35. I don't think she's evil, just stupid.

Stupid can be just as bad as evil.

[Tutankhamun]

37. Osama Bin Laden isn't evil; he's just a man of faith.

George Bush isn't evil; he's just a man of deep faith.

We can't give a pass to those who claim religious faith motivates their evil deeds.

[timtom]

38. Hitler wasn't evil, either.

He was possessed.

[Rainbowreflect]

41. I cannot agree, she is dishonest. She repeats the same lies over

and over again. I agree she is most likely not evil, but she is dishonest, ignorant and mean.

[leftofthedial]

42. believers are evil. there is no clearer example of evil in all human history.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

48. it took a lot longer for this to show up than i thought

i guess a majority of the Democratic Party is evil then...

sP

[leftofthedial]

69. are you a moralist--a moral absolutist?

if so, then yes. Most Democrats (according to American statisticians) are "evil."

if not, then you realize that everyone is "evil." And "good." This topic then becomes a question of what characteristics make one "evil" or "good" and to what degree?

There also is the semantical issue of the OP's implication that "believer" = "fundamentalist" or "zealot" to consider.

[Vinca]

43. Would you shoot baby wolves in their den? Palin would. She's evil. nt

[leftofthedial]

44. believers are evil. there is no clearer example of evil in all human history.

[clear eye]

46. Religion didn't make her support having rape victims pay for their own kits

or spend $50K on an office redo w/o authorization and defy anyone to do anything about it. Or lose her temper and summarily fire so many Wasilla officials that the council had to insist she get an administrator. Or hire a known sexual harasser to replace Monegan as Alaska's chief public safety officer. Or charge a per diem for electing to stay in Anchorage instead of Juneau, or reclassify the job title of her personal chef so she could continue to have Alaska pay for him w/o their knowing about it. Or, while Governor, give the opening speech for the secessionist Alaska Independence Party convention. Or refuse to cooperate with the federal investigation into the Monegan affair, including refusing to release the contents of 3 Yahoo! email accounts. It also doesn't explain why women speaking out against her fitness as VP describe themselves as performing an act of courage and claim that many others are afraid to for fear of retaliation.

It appears you've formed an impression of Palin based on nothing more than your image of all fundamentalists. Underestimating her would be a serious error for both Biden in the debates (her previous lame answers in interviews may have been designed to lower expectations, and she may give a performance in line w/excellent coaching) and the rest of the country in the campaign. Please do your research before you post.

[King Coal]

51. What research do you think I am lacking? You haven't mentioned anything

I haven't read about. I think you are really over-reacting.

[clear eye]

96. You knew all this stuff and still describe her as no different than your average fundamentalist?!!

Do you actually think most fundamentalists would insist, even when called out on it, that rape victims pay for their own rape kits, or are you just trying to cover up that you didn't know about it before my post? And despite all the theft I recounted and defiance of subpoenas, describe her as "not dishonest"? And think that being blithely willing to start a major war w/o our country being endangered doesn't make her "evil"? Frankly that's a little scary. Your definition of "honest" would make me very hesitant to have any dealings with you.

Let me clarify about the research. I was speaking of looking into what people are referring to when they call her "evil". Doing a little search of the Palin threads on DU. According to my read of DU community standards, people posting replies are not expected to substantiate what they write, but posters of original threads are. Unless they are opening a thread that just proposes a question for discussion by the community. But I'm sure you, as a longtime DUer, know this already.

Anyway, disseminating problems about Palin's actions and character are helpful during a campaign and have nothing to do with ensuring fair elections. It is possible that you are just trying to give another human being the benefit of the doubt. From what I've read about Palin's past behavior, she walks all over people like you.

[bunkerbuster1]

50. Not many will agree with me, but I don't think people are "evil."

Of course, people are capable of doing evil; that's indesputable.

I think we call them "evil" when we're lazy and don't bother to find out why they've taken this or that incredibly extreme, harsh position. Good for you in trying to find out why Sarah does what she does.

That's really what matters. And I happen to find your analysis pretty dead on. She thinks she's doing the right thing. And we ought to let the GOP allow her to opt out and bring in a late-inning replacement.

I'm fine with going after a McCain/Huckabee or /Romney or what-have-you in October if it comes to that.

[Bryn]

52. Yes, She is EVIL

The word "EVIL" is "LIVE" backward. She has everything backward. Has no respect for God's creation, Nature & Wildlife. Has no feelings for shooting down wolves, polar bears, moose, caribou and God knows how many other animals. She even said she hated cats so she probably is a kitty killer as well. Why, she's sociopath! How can she be "pro-life" when in truth she has no respect for animals. I don't call her "hunter". Just a murderer, an animal serial killer. A true hunter (like Native American) doesn't do it for sport and is fair and has respect for the balance and is not wasteful. She's like Disney's Cruella.

[Imagevision]

55. Palin is an opportunist who supports the Bush administration..

[Lars39]

56. iirc, her Pentecostal beliefs are not the usual Pentecostal beliefs.

Her beliefs are more radical.

[marions ghost]

57. you're purposely missing the connection

between the evil propping up of ex-beauty queen pentacostal puppets and the stealing of elections.

It's all a seething knot of evil.

Give the Rethuglicans a pass on Palin? Get outta here. :nuke:

[jrockford]

60. truly believing in the evil crap you say, doesn't make you less evil. It makes you more frightening

[KG]

61. she's ignorant, but clever and corrupt. an evil concoction.

she represents evil. she acts in behalf of evil. that makes her evil.

[Annces]

62. Not a true believer

She wants power and knows how to get it. A very practical person I think.

[rvablue]

65. Nope, sorry, not with you on this

Have you heard some of the sneering lies she tells about Obama at her rallies.

I want her to return to Alaska as the national joke she is becoming.

And then throw a party to celebrate her getting kicked out of the Governor's mansion at the next election.

It's back to Wasilla and the fishing boat.

[King Coal]

67. I want her to return too. But calling her "evil" will just make stubborn people more stubborn.

[LeftishBrit]

68. Can't one be both?

[Disturbed]

70. Gov. Palin needs to be Impeached, now!!!

At the very least, Alaskans need to mount a Recall Petition & toss her out. She is corrupt & inept. The vetting process of her becoming Gov. must have been almost non existent.

[muriel_volestrangler]

75. It's the Republicans who call people 'evil', not DU

Here's Palin, quoted twice recently on DU about the Middle East:

Palin's answer, in full, was this: "Yeah, well especially in that region, though, we have to protect those who do seek democracy and support those who seek protections for the people who live there. What we're seeing in the last couple of days here in New York is a President of Iran, Ahmadinejad, who would come on our soil and express such disdain for one of our closest allies and friends, Israel ... and we're hearing the evil that he speaks and if hearing him doesn't allow Americans to commit more solidly to protecting the friends and allies that we need, especially there in the Mideast, then nothing will."

and here's McCain:

The top half of the Republican ticket, Senator John McCain, continued to press his new populist themes, saying that the financial crisis was the result of “mistakes made in Wall Street and evil and greed in Washington.”

Really, that's what I get for a search of 'Palin' and 'evil' on DU - plus one joke saying she'll continue the evil policies of Dick 'Doctor Doom' Cheney from Latveria.

But McCain just called his fellow US politicians 'evil' (and note how he thinks the 'evil' and 'greed' are in Washington, but that Wall Street just made 'mistakes'. Wow, we can tell whose side he's on, can't we?)

So I think this call to stop calling Palin 'evil' is a bit of a strawman, frankly.

On edit: until this thread, of course. Plenty of people do think she's evil, but that seems to have been drummed up by this post.

[Bryn]

93. DU uses "EVIL" to mean

To Live backward. Evil is spelled backward .. LIVE

To Republicans "evil" means a red creature with horns, holding fork ... like those images that religious right wings invented. :evilfrown: :evilgrin: or like Putin's head rearing in air space of USA and Alaska.

Big Difference

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

78. Charging rape victims for rape kits isn't evil?

Supporting the killing of thousands of arab muslims isn't evil?

Applauding the deaths of Jews by the hands of terrorists isn't evil?

You've got a funny sense of what is and isn't evil.

Oh, and I'm willing to bet she's not really a believer either.

[Shakespeare]

79. If she weren't a nasty, vindictive piece of shit, you might have a point.

But she's not, and you don't.

[MissDeeds]

89. Agree, Shakespeare

:applause:

[Terran]

80. Evil? Maybe not....but

immoral? Yes. Petty, vindictive and dishonest, at best.

[Marrah_G]

81. Evil is in the eye of the beholder

Given her views on my family and our beliefs I am hoping she is never given a chance to wield power. I would like us to continue breathing.

Hitler was just a believer until he gained power as well.

[Naturyl]

83. "Evil" is a strong word... but she sure ain't good.

Holding to self-serving beliefs despite facts and evidence is a SELFISH thing to do - especially when one wants to potentially run an entire nation.

[FranMonet]

86. Sara is not Evil

Sara Palin is not evil but she is dangerous. Just like polar bear is not evil but I would not go up to one to pet it.She's a fundamentalist which means her view of life is simplistic and that makes her too dangerous to be president.

[MissDeeds]

87. No, she's evil

Anyone who would take part in shooting animals from a plane is evil, through and through.

[RagAss]

88. Evil is a concept....Stupid is a fucking reality !!!,

[Javaman]

95. When willful ignorance clashes with the betterment of society; that is evil. nt