My friend's son shot and killed by police...Just back from 2nd tour in Iraq

[masmdu]

I became friends with Kim over the last few years. She is our Mail courier. Our kids trick or treat together and we talk almost everyday.

When we got to talking about politics and the war a couple of years ago, I found out she was originally a Bush supporter. We talked about how no matter her political choices we both hoped for her son to come home safely. After his second deployment Kim was fed up with the war and from our talks I was glad to see she was changing her thinking about the war.

Her son, Dylan, came back and had "stress issues" as Kim put it.

Yesterday, he fell down some stairs at home. His dad called for the paramedics. Dylan didn't want any help and the police were called. He told the police that he didn't want to/need to go in the ambulance and started to swing a hockey stick to keep everybody away.

For this he was shot 3 times and killed.

Kim is lost in grief. Dylan protected and served and then gets gunned down at home like a mad dog.

A sad day in Greensboro.

(The story is linked here. There is a video link in the body of the story in which Kim talks about this)

http://www.myfoxwghp.com/myfox/pages/Home/Detail?contentId=7548064&version=2&locale=EN-US&layoutCode=TSTY&pageId=1.1.1

[texasleo]

1. sorry for the loss

;(

[Cooley Hurd]

2. My god...

Dylan was MURDERED by the deputy. :(

A fucking hockey stick????:grr:

[malaise]

8. Funny isn't it

they would tranquilize a bear, but kill an Iraq war Vet. That was murder.

[ManiacJoe]

80. Unfortunately for Dylan, the hockey stick qualifies as a

deadly weapon, as do baseball bats and other club-type objects.

However, due to the lack of details, one cannot accurately defend or condemn the actions of the cops.

Also due to the lack of details, I question the actions of the EMTs. If Dylan did not want treatment, SOP for the most EMTs is to get the paperwork signed and then leave.

[AzNick]

114. Trigger-happy cops who could have backed off n/t

[ManiacJoe]

115. And let everyone else in the house fend for themselves?

They are not allowed to do that. If he actually came at the cops with the stick, that makes the options even harder.

Ignoring the lack of info about what was really going on in the house, this seems like one of the times that using a taser would have been the right thing to do. But yes, based on the little info we have, it seems the cops handled this very badly. As did the EMTs.

[AzNick]

116. Yes, taser, bean bag, canine, whatever...

Shooting a human being should only be done when all other options are exhausted.

[cali]

3. omg, what a terrible, terrible thing. My deepest sympathies to your friend.

[unhappycamper]

4. My condolences to you and Kim, masmdu.

Expect to see more of this in the coming days.

[LeftyFingerPop]

5. I'm very very sorry.

[still_one]

6. unbelievable unecessary use of lethal force. Sorry for your loss /nt

[Marrah_G]

7. Oh wow- I am so, so sorry

This war has left our young men so damaged. We are going to see stories like this for a long time.

I feel so badly for his parents. What a living hell they are in.

[babylonsister]

9. What the hell. Why can't these cops, if they feel threatened

by a hockey stick, shoot NOT to kill? Didn't that used to be taught? And shot three times? This makes me ill, and I'm so sorry for your friend and her son, who didn't deserve this.

[moriah]

15. Most officers, as well as gun-owners, are taught to shoot to kill.

If you pull out your gun, you are committing to taking that person's life.

There was NO reason to pull a gun in this situation at all.

[npk]

118. Officers are trained when they shoot to "Stop the threat"

Period. They are not taught to "shoot to kill." They are trained to fire their weapons until the threat is stopped, then stop immediately there after. They are also taught to aim at the largest area of the body, unfortunately that is the area near the heart, the chest.

I am very sorry for the OP's loss.

[Cid_B]

32. Cannot and should not be trained to shoot not to kill...

I can see it now "Why didnt you just shoot the gun out of his hand?"

[LisaL]

44. No, it's not used to be taught.

They shoot to kill, not to wound.
It's a lot easier to hit someone in the body than arm or leg. Also, if there is a by-stander, someone trying to shoot and arm or leg can miss and hit a by-stander.

[moriah]

47. That's why my view is that they shouldn't have pulled the gun out at all.

I come from Arkansas. I was taught to handle firearms at a young age.

And the most IMPORTANT thing I was taught, even when I was learning to shoot my grandfather's bird rifle, was that you NEVER pull a gun unless you intend to take a life.

Ever.

If you have a gun in your hand, you have already committed to killing a person.

The cops should not have pulled their guns at all.

[Lorien]

53. I know. I though that situations like that are what tazers are for

the police respond to help an injured person and end up killing him? They need to be dismissed from the force at the very least.

[file83]

100. That cop or cops that shot him have got to be in big trouble. If the guy had not even

taken a swing at them (in a genuine attempt to hit them - not just a warning swing from a distance), then they had no reason to believe they were in immediate/deadly danger. They should have backed off to create more buffer space, prepared the tasers and then tased him to subdue him. But to just pull out their lethal force and terminate right there on the spot is completely excessive force, to say the least.

This all depends on whether or not he was actually taking swings at the officers. A hockey stick can kill if swung hard enough to the head/neck, so if he was swinging to hit the officers then they will be able to justify it. There better be a trial to help determine this.

[sandnsea]

55. In some places, they are

There are towns in this country where the cops would have worked for hours, days, before shooting someone who was waving a hockey stick. It really makes me sad for the people who live in other areas, where they've never seen the compassion some cops do exhibit.

[progressivebydesign]

101. They have to shoot to kill. The first rule is to NEVEr let yourself get incapacitated.

It's for the safety of everyone else around them. If they get knocked down or out, the first thing to get stripped from them is their gun, then the out of control person will most likely use it on the family or friends nearby... It's sad, but it's reality. Police cannot chance giving up their gun.

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

112. Some police like to put themselves in a situation where they get to have target practice

I'm talking about an incident that occurred about 15 years ago in southern California. The police pursued a vehicle that would not stop. They cornered him in a parking lot where there was no place to drive or to escape. The driver rammed an empty cop car and then the police jumped in front of his car on foot in the blocked off parking lot, inviting the man to ram them. There was no need to approach the car with drawn guns as there was no place for the man to go. The police were clearly participating in murder and it was caught on videotape. It created an immense stir in the Korean community (the driver was Korean) but the police who gunned the man down were cleared (of course, what else?) after a long investigation. And there have been many other similar instances, such as the murder of Donald P. Scott unarmed and shot down by the police in his home, because the local sheriff's department wanted to have his valuable land in Malibu Canyon confiscated (they trumped up a bogus charge that he was growing marijuana) and Derek Hale, a U.S. Marine just back from Iraq who was wrongfully suspected of involvement in a drug ring and who was first tasered on his porch and then shot and killed when he reached into his shirt (there was no gun). Instead of confronting someone, the police need to take a defensive posture (as many of them do) until they determine whether the suspect is really dangerous. Instead, some of them intentionally put themselves in harm's way because they do get a real kick out of shooting someone. I practiced law with an ex L.A. policeman who said many police really find it to be a fantastic adrenalin rush to be involved in a shooting incident and he also said that Rodney King-like beatings of unarmed defenseless individuals is commonplace. This was back in the 1990s.

A lot of policemen are basically good guys. But a lot of them are completely deranged psychopaths. I don't know if they are hired that way or if they become that way. I represented an L.A. cop for a work comp injury where he had seen death and mayhem on a regular basis. The guy was completely insane and attacked the judge with his walking cane during the trial. As an attorney, I have been involved with police officers in a number of legal matters where they are prone to absolutely lie their asses off on the witness stand and never rat on a brother or sister in blue.

[seabeyond]

10. i hate it. hate it hate it. the police are out of control. there will be excusers.

they will say, ... but but but he had a hockey stick. what else could they do. they could have done a hell of a lot else.

IT MAKES ME SICK AND ANGRY

and we will do nothing

i am so very angry at the police today. they treat us no better than animals, but more

i am so very very angry at the people that make excuses, justifies, validates....

[avaistheone1]

75. The police are getting more abusive and aggressive. I think Homeland Security may have something to

do it with it. I think the police are getting more militaristic type training through Homeland Security. It is shoot first, think second.

I hope your friend fights this and wins. I wish your friend peace. No mother should have to suffer such an unnecessary loss. No vet should be treated this way either.

[seabeyond]

79. homeland, bush/repug macho mentality, the higher up in police force not

setting standards and drawing lines for their men, letting police get away with this time and again, people making excuses for them.

if not for the citizens, then for the police themselves we MUST have a higher expectation from them and their higher ups must give them the direction

[avaistheone1]

81. From your lips to God's ears.

This needs to turn around quick. These incidents are happening more frequently all around the country.

[undergroundpanther]

90. same here, I hate it too

Fucking cops freakout if they find out a person on a call has mental issues.Cops are becoming more and more like bullies.

[moriah]

11. Jesus Christ.

This is beyond words.

I am sickened and saddened more than I can express.

My thoughts are with you and Kim and her family. And if you guys need letter-writers to inundate the SBI with letters showing how people feel about this travesty, I'm sure I can come up with a few choice words.

[tomg]

12. I am so sorry for your friend, for you,

and for our country. Peace.

[BlueJazz]

13. Words fail to express my sadness....

[gateley]

14. A hockey stick is 'some kind of weapon'? This is outrageous.

I hope the SBI investigation comes out in support of Dylan and Kim. This is unconscionable.

I am so, so so sorry for Kim.

May Dylan rest in peace.

[High Plains]

51. Cops investigating cops? Good luck with that.

[progressivebydesign]

102. a hockey stick in the side of the head is lethal. Do you think they wanted to risk losing their guns

I sure the hell wouldn't. Should they have hugged him? What would you suggest?

[secondwind]

16. what a tragedy................I can never understand why cops don't aim to "debilitate" instead

of to kill.

:(

[moriah]

20. They should be taught not to pull the gun at all.

At least, not when the person's weapon is (oh, the Horror!) a hockey stick.

There was no need at all of lethal force. If he didn't want to go, they should have left him there.

I can't even say a Taser would have been appropriate. There was no need for force at all.

[LisaL]

43. Because it's a lot harder and more dangerous to by-standers

to shoot someone into the arm or leg and not the bulk of the body.

[Lorien]

58. And don't they all carry tazers?

[tpsbmam]

17. Horrified, just horrified. I'm so sorry -- what a needless

death of a young man who needed our help and look at how he's treated. This is just beyond words.

[1awake]

18. I'm sorry for the sad loss of life

I use to be a police officer, and they are going to have a hard time justifying this use of lethal force. The deputy had other options...

[Jim__]

19. So sorry to hear this - a tragedy.

[Octafish]

21. George Walker Bush

Bush and his illegal, unnecessary and immoral war are responsible for what happened. The men and women serving in Iraq come home changed -- wounded inside. The nation has changed too -- the authorities feel they are licensed to kill.

My deepest sympathies to Dylan's family and friends.

[NNN0LHI]

22. Rule #1 as a parent. Never ever, ever, ever call the police on your own children

No good will come of it. It never does.

I just hope (for the mothers sake) this woman didn't sign for this poor kid to enlist while he was only 17 years-old.

She will regret that decision until the day she dies if she did.

Don

[varelse]

23. Dad called the ambulance, not the cops

it's likely that the paramedics, not Dad, called the cops when the "patient" refused to "cooperate".

[NNN0LHI]

26. Paramedics don't respond without police back-up

Everyone knows that. Or at least they should.

Don

[druidity33]

29. i don't think so...

My friend is an EMT and she's only required to call when it's a traffic accident. Otherwise she makes a determination when she arrives at the scene. When someone calls 911, the dispatcher determines whether it's a medical emergency and whether cops need to arrive with the ambulance.


I grant that there is a "likelihood" that Police could arrive... but it's not a given.

:shrug:

[NNN0LHI]

31. We haver had to call them many times for my father

The police beat the ambulance to his house every time.

My wife used to be a police dispatcher and just told me that police were required to respond to all ambulance calls.

Thats all I have to go by.

Don

[druidity33]

65. varies by region i guess... nt

[Freddie Stubbs]

34. That varies from neighborhood to neighborhood

Some neighborhoods are safer than others.

[Lorien]

56. Paramedics respond without police back up in Ohio and Florida

I've had to call paramedics several times, and they NEVER came with cops in tow.

[Pacifist Patriot]

86. Not around here. I've had to call EMTs three times in the past ten years...

(long time period, but it should illustrate changes over time) and never have they had police back up.

[progressivebydesign]

104. not true!! Paramedics go unaccompanied on most calls. You must live in a rough place.

[Patiod]

38. In our township, the cops come whenever you call an ambulance

My parents live in a rich township which is basically crime-free. The cops are able to come whenever an ambulance is called, make sure everything is okay.

My parents have found it comforting, and if the ambulance is late, the cop gets on the squawker and tries to hurry them up. Also, if you're in a crowded area (not an issue there) the police can clear an area for the ambulance and keep rubberneckers away.

I don't know why it's necessary.

[LisaL]

42. His dad call an ambulance, not the police, because he fell

down the stairs.
Police showed up because he refused to get into the ambulance.

[TornadoTN]

76. I believe the Police were dispatched because there apparently was a history at that address

It's at this site:

http://www.news-record.com/content/2008/09/30/article/deputy_says_victim_wielded_machete

If it was a hockey stick, then these officers were negligent and they should be charged. If it was a machete, there is no jury on earth that will find them liable or guilty for the events that ensued - unless he just had it in his hand and never threatened the officers.

At this point, I'm sure we will never get a true story on this incident, which is terribly sad and an outrage.

[Mad_Dem_X]

24. So they had to KILL him?

They had no recourse but to kill this guy, for swinging a hockey stick? That is disgusting. WTF is wrong with this country?

[RC]

25. He did not want to go in the ambulance and that was his right.

All they had to do was back off. He was not wanted for anything.
I agree, this is murder.

[Indenturedebtor]

30. Murder is right. People hit each other with hockeysticks all over north america every day

The real problem is that these cops think they have the right to make people do whatever they tell them to. The guy didn't want to get in the damn ambulance. Leave him the fuck alone and get off the property.

Or you could just kill him to assert your "Command Presence". :grr:

[bdamomma]

27. omg, comes home and gets killed.

how sick, those police should be thrown out of their jobs. my condolences to the family.

[Blue Diadem]

28. OMG that's awful.

Please give Kim and her family our condolences.

Damn it, cops need better training. They need to know how to deal with people who have emotional/mental issues including PTSD instead of killing them.

[FourScore]

33. How sad!!!

:cry:

[backscatter712]

35. Fuck the pigs.

Too lazy to control the situation with the dozens of other methods they were trained to use to deal with these situations. They could have used pepper spray, or batons, or tasers, or they could have tasered him, or they could have hung back and talked to him (god forbid they try dealing with this using non-violent methods...)

But oh, no, they couldn't do that - too much work. Much easier to draw the Glocks and shoot him.

Fuckers. Absolute savage sacks of shit.

[MuseRider]

36. Killed because he did not want

to go in an ambulance? Seriously? Why didn't the police just say OK and walk away? Were they obligated to see this young man get into an ambulance? WTH is this? It was just a fucking ambulance and a poor injured and upset Veteran. Why the need to do anything once they saw he did not want to go. He was an adult so it would be his decision to make. Why not wait until he calmed down to see if he really did need to go?

I am so sorry for you and your friend. This is just not right, nothing about this is right. May he rest in peace and may his friends and family find some peace to hang onto.

[NashVegas]

46. "We Can Fix You Whether You Like It Or Not"

This is the danger Aldus Huxley was pointing out, when well-intentioned liberalism is taken to its most extreme.

[ColbertWatcher]

78. "well-intentioned liberalism is taken to its most extreme" No, you're wrong.

Try "We Will Arrest You Whether You Did Anything To Warrant It Or Not"

Unless those cops were also medical professionals, they had no authority to take him to a hospital.

And unless I missed something, there was no trial or conviction so they had no authority to sentence him the way they did.

What that is an example of is authoritarianism, not liberalism "taken to an extreme".

BTW, there are legal and ethical ways for a doctor to force you to go to the hospital, but I didn't see any mention of a doctor prescribing any lead for the patient in this instance.

[NashVegas]

84. And the Paramedics? What's Your Apologia There?

Liberalism has its own version of authoritarianism. Most people simply don't comprehend it because it comes under the guise of "this's good for you."

[ColbertWatcher]

87. What are of expertise were the paramedics trained for?

Did they shoot him?

[Name removed]

37. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[WePurrsevere]

39. My heart goes out to his loved ones. That little girl was there too poor thing...

imagine being there as your big brother and/or child were killed by cops like this.

IMO what happened sounds like excessive force to me. From what is being reported there was NO good reason for this man to have been shot and killed. Even if the fall triggered a PTSD episode and the cops were called later (according to the article) because of that, killing him (shot 3 times! WTH) was excessive since he only had a hockey stick and my SWAG is that perhaps the deputy pushed his buttons and made the situation worse (which I've seen happen).

FWIW my x-FIL was a cop and I've had friends that were cops so I have a deep respect for the majority of those in the profession who are out there doing their jobs as they truly should. Sadly there are a few "bad apples" out there that really should not be cops... it sounds like this deputy may be one of them... if so hopefully justice prevails.

[TuxedoKat]

40. I'm so sorry

for your friend and her family and you. What a nightmare. As someone else said, the police in this country need training in how to deal with mental/emotional health issues and severe repercussions for gunning down citizens this way.

[sonias]

41. Damnit - that's not fair

What a horrible loss for Kim. Her son survives Iraq and is killed by poorly trained police officer. How tragic.

This statement completely infuriates me. "his deputy had no choice but to shoot" No choice! How about they simply leave the house. It's his house and if he doesn't want to go to the hospital, just leave him alone. Back away from the house.

I am so sorry for Kim's loss. You can see in the earlier media story, they try making the case that Dylan had a long history of run ins with the law - i.e. the he deserved it defense.

:cry:


Sonia

[tom_paine]

45. Murder. Plain and simple. And yes, I am sure every the Bushie Sheriff talked to

(which I am sure included each and every one of "his boys" and no one else)

told the same pretty tale of "justification" for the murder.

Same as they always do, almost 100% of the time.

Multiple shots. When one in the leg would have brought him down without murdering him. And that was IF firearms were even needed to subdue him.

As almost every aspect of life in Imperial Amerika, especially since 12/12/2000 once the mask was off, this is a lie to cover an injustice.

And is that not the single most defining sentence which describes Imperial Amerika, this new grotesque nation, born in evil, 2001-?

A lie to cover and injustice. Multiply by the thousands, perhaps the millions.

What has our once free, once-proud nation, for all it's faults and flaw, become now? An engine of tyrants testing new methods of oppression. Where the basic human decency that was at our core is now replaced with the 1930s German mentality.

Bet that Bushie Sheriff covering for the murderer AND the murder or murderers are "Support The Troops" kind of guys.

THIS is how they show their Bushie Values, by going straight to lethality in a situation that likely, VERY likely did not call for it at least not as Option #1, and MURDERING one of those trops they lyingly claim to support out of one side of their vile Bushie faces while casually murdering one of them out of the other side of their Bushie Lying Snake-Faces.

Murderers. Of course they are going tp get away with it. That's the Object Lesson to all the Amerikan Subject populace of the last eight years and more.

Bushies ALWAYS get away with it, and it just don't matter how much evidence their is.

And now, that goes DOUBLE for their murdering footsoldiers of terrorizing the populace...which is more and more of what the "police" are becoming. Another decade or two of this "becoming", and that is ALL they will be, every tiny vestige of "protect and serve" will be gone. We are halfway there already.

Bushie Murderers walking away scot-free.

If you aren't used to this already, GET used to it. For likely as it has been the pattern of our political lives since Watergate and really since the 1934 Bushie Attempted Coup of FDR to Join the Nazis as Allies

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/history/document/document_20070723.shtml

and, sadly, it is likely to be the story of our political lives, doubly and trebly and quadruply so than it was from 1975-2008.

Bushies walk free, scot-free. They wait for the Subject Populace to forget, hich doesn't take long, then come back to pick up as if they'd never left off.

[Spritz57]

48. My heart goes out to both you and your friend!

What a tragedy, I cannot begin to fathom what your friend must be feeling right now. I hope you both have terrificly supportive friends and families to survive this horrible loss. For ten years, in my professional sojourn, I worked with Vets and their families who suffered from PTSD. They received little to no support from the VA unless you count prescriptions as support. This event is not unique and happens with an alarming frequency. It is a national tragedy, and a nation's shame for their lack of support for those who answered "the call."

[eowyn_of_rohan]

49. This is murder. Will they be prosecuted?

I am heartsick for his mother, and filled with rage at the thugs who did this.

[bunkerbuster1]

60. Team Bush? of course they won't be prosecuted.

[marshall]

50. I've seen this happen so often in domestic violence situations

The police are called and things escalate even more and then something tragic happens. It really makes me wary about introducing the police into a situation within my home.

[Better Today]

52. I've never heard of calling the police because someone wouldn't go to the hospital unless

the family wanted him/her forced to be taken there. This indicates to me that the family was already feeling they couldn't handle him and that it was more than just a disagreement about going to the hospital. All that being said, the police really don't know how to handle anything anymore, or so it seems. What moron would shoot someone when they could have tear gassed him, tased him (once only not like the abuse thats been going on with those), or guess what, he's an adult, let him decide to go to the hospital or not. Just stupid, but not only on the part of the police, also on the family's part for calling them. What was the point to having and aduclt who served our country well, forced to a hospital because he fell down? When you call the police, you have to expect they are thinking, hey the family called us to interfere; the guy must be dangerously disconnected from reality.

[EFerrari]

54. In some venues, the police show up with the ambulance as SOP. n/t

[Better Today]

57. After reading more posts I see that it was EMS that called, my bad.

[progressivebydesign]

103. I can't assign fault to the family or police here. He was obviously out of control..

if the police were called. A hockey stick in the hands of someone out of their mind is lethal. The police are not mind-readers, they cannot guess whether or not he'd take their gun and kill the paramedics or family once he incapacitated them by hitting them with a hockey stick.

I'm more enraged that our military keeps sending these poor soldiers back with PTSD and NO help whatsoever. He should not have been in that house, as it's obvious he was not in his right mind.

[blonndee]

110. Does a hockey stick not have a limited range?

I mean, seriously. Police may not be mind-readers, but they are (or certainly should be) trained in human behavior and able to deal with this type of situation at any time. Why not try some negotiations to try to get him to drop the "lethal" hockey stick first? If that failed, why not wait it out? This is just some musings from a civilians, but WTF ever happened to common sense? SuURELY these cops weren't just itching to shoot somebody, so WTF?

[CRF450]

111. By what the article said

"The officers approached him, he approached the officers. There was a threatening, menacing manner that accrued, and because of that, Mr. Hartsfeld was shot and killed,"

So maybe he tried charging at them, I dunno. But this really needs a full investigation.

[blonndee]

113. I agree that it does need a full investigation.

Maybe he did charge them. Still, I can't see justification for lethal force here. Of course I wasn't there, but it's hard for me to see how a hockey stick poses such a danger from which one could not easily escape such that the need to SHOOT the stick-bearer is the only option.

Again, maybe I'm wrong. I am just so sick and sad over all the instances of police brutality, and, to a (perhaps) lesser but more frequent extent, police incivility and disregard for civil rights.

[bunkerbuster1]

59. I am so sorry for your friend's loss. And I am so angry.

Obviously the police have some culpability and I hope that the investigation is thorough and fair.

But I hear a story like this and all I can think of is this filthy war, and all the blowback that we won't hear about, in the years to come.

[orleans]

61. OMG! how tragic!!! and for what? because he didn't want help?

this is crazy. those cops are crazy.

[Subdivisions]

62. Fuck you george boosh! You piece of shit!!! n/t

[baby_mouse]

63. Murderers. As simple as that.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

64. Jesus fucking christ.

Are those officers RETARDED??? And yes, I am using that word purposefully and in the most perjorative way possible. :mad:

If officers in SF shot every mentally ill/disruptive/aggitated person they encountered it would be a daily fucking bloodbath in the streets.

They knew an ambulance has been called. They knew they were dealing with someone who was agitated. And their only option is to fucking pull their guns???

Sorry, but that is just bullshit. :mad:

[codjh9]

66. I used to always trust the police, but between crazy shit like this and the Taser incidents,

good God almighty!

[seabeyond]

85. i used to trust the cops too. about five years ago i started teaching my children not to.

it is a sad day when someone like me.... would teach my children that they could not depend on the cops to be rational and reasonable, with the power they have.

[undergroundpanther]

92. I never trust cops or military personnel

State thugs. I don't like them, don't trust them never have never will and the more cops stay away from me the better.Power tripping bullies CAUSED my psychological injuries.Too many cops have a bullying personality.They ASSUME you are a problem always.. BTW I have no criminal record at all.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
On the flight I started to get angry. I can’t blame them for wanting to figure out what the pills were, but they could have done so respectfully. They could have read the label. They could have done the narcotics test without yelling at me, without intimidating me, without manipulating me, without lying to me. But they immediately presumed I was guilty, and worse, presumed it’s okay to manipulate someone they presume is guilty.

And that’s what they do.

This leads to the reason I got so angry that night on the plane. It has to do with the good cop’s mantra: can’t you see this from our perspective?

While of course that phrase can be used sincerely, it is also the mantra of all abusers, all exploiters. In order for any oppressive or exploitative situation to sustain over the long term, it’s imperative that oppressors get the oppressed to see things from the oppressor’s (warped) perspective. Sure, oppressors—including individual bullies, abusers, capitalists, the civilized, most males within a patriarchy, or any other oppressors—can and do simply use violence to take whatever it is to which they feel entitled, and sure, the threat of violence always underlies oppressors’ every action (had a normal person started yelling at me because I couldn’t identify a baggie of pills in my backpack, I would have briefly stared in disbelief before walking away shaking my head: of course had I done that in this circumstance the cops would have physically assaulted me to hold me in place), but oppression always flows more smoothly when the oppressed police themselves, or even better, agree with the oppressors and need no policing at all. It’s as Steven Biko said, “The most powerful tool in the hands of the oppressor is the mind of the oppressed.”
http://www.insurgentamerican.net/2007/05/28/why-people-hate-cops/

[tuckessee]

67. There's some really rich irony in this. n/t

[Bryn]

68. Sounds like Cop was Trigger-happy

So sad. So wrong. I am so sorry :cry:

[LibertyLover]

69. Unbelievably sad

I am so sorry for you and for Kim and her family.

[Mabus]

70. Just speechless

I'm so sorry. I'm grieving for you and his family. And I offer you my deepest and most sincere sympathies.

I've come back to this post several times today. It is heart wrenching for me. And it has triggered a shit storm in my own head over a similar incident where a family I know lost their only son and brother. They called the police because their son was suicidal and had locked himself in his bedroom. The cops came but he didn't want help and refused to open the door. The cops picked the lock and within a few minutes he was dead and all of our lives changed.

I'm so sorry that anyone has to go through this. I really am. My heart is with you, your friend and everyone around you.

[Joanne98]

71. The cops should be charged with murder.

[fizzgig]

72. oh gods

:cry:

my deepest condolences to the family

[Neshanic]

73. OMG. Words fail. They shot him three times for a hockey stick?

Sickening.

[undergroundpanther]

89. They killed him

because cops are ignorant about how to help people with a psych background .They do not try de-escalation or anything.They just provoke to control and it sets the person needing help up and then the cops over react.
Cops used to be trained in how to deal with people with psych issues how to de-escalate how to approach someone freaking out.
They obviously don't DO that kind of training anymore.

Cops after all are about force,protection of property, domination and state power over the people regardless of how they help or not..
If you are lucky they help out.If you aren't lucky and if you have mental issues they'll bully you and shoot you for being provoked by a bully. It's sickening.

[UndertheOcean]

74. Those "cops" should be charged with murder

[TornadoTN]

77. These cops are a poor excuse - but lets be careful with our broad strokes

According to the news reports I've looked up, these cops sound like they acted in a poor and irrational manner. 5 seconds from arrival, after this guy apparently ran into the woods, they make a decision to shoot to kill? I don't think that's really enough time for the Officer to appraise the situation and make a determination of their surroundings. This story stinks - along with so many coming out of law enforcement across this country. We need to clean house and hold them accountable to the public and to the law.

That being said - I know a great many law enforcement officers in my "neck of the woods" and they are good, decent, and hard working individuals. They acknowledge the problems within their own ranks and within the system, but they do their jobs and from all accounts, contribute a net positive back to the community. These are ordinary men and women who are subjected to extraordinary circumstances and most of the ones I know do it because they want to make a difference - not to feed their own egos. My best friend, who is probably more liberal than me, is a police officer that is a fervent and outspoken Obama supporter! I know several more like him.

I am just as outraged about our increasing degree of a police state and so are a lot of Police officers.

[Supply Side Jesus]

94. Oh why stop now....

Why not just say all cops are murderers...fuck all pigs! It's so much easier for some on DU to be just as stereotypical as their counterparts on Free Republic. There are good decent people who risk their lives everyday out on the streets. Yet, they get spit on because of some reckless Dirty Harry wannabes. Don't get me wrong, dirty cops need to be dealt with, justly. Yet, so many "liberals" on here judge without facts, condemn without evidence. Instead they convict because of a personal bias for whatever reason. Thank you for your tempered support of law enforcement, and recognizing there are some good ones out here.


SSJ
Proud Obama Supporter since 2004.

[stillcool]

107. It's systemic..

not isolated. It's what happens when people are given unbridled power. The Patriot Act has taken away any restraints. Hence..Minneapolis.

[nadinbrzezinski]

82. Wrong action by the cops and paramedics

unless Dylan was a danger to himself... he had the right to say no to the medics

THey should have given him an AMA (Against medical Advise)

Stupid cops and medics

RIP Dylan

[OHDEM]

83. I'm so sorry.

Dylan is another of the uncounted casualties of this war. Such a loss!

[undergroundpanther]

88. Cops are acting like trigger happy assholes

if anyone has mental illness.I was treated like a criminal cuffed hauled into the ER because my counselor called the EMT's to check up on me.EMT's pronounced me fine, I was not violent or talking that way,and the fucking cop wanted to play power trip despite my obvious self control. He demanded I make eye contact,I refused to look at him because I don't like people to see me cry,and it would just provoked me because bullies do that and it triggers me.I was AWARE of how to control my own symptoms,I told the ego on two legs WHY I refused to make eye contact.He still demanded and I still refused..anyways they cuffed me,I wasn't fighting,yelling or anything like that.My voice actually was very soft.I asked if I was under arrest and what for? they gave me a line about protocol.(in other words bullshit)

I bet if I was a senator's kid they would NOT have treated me this way.

Cops just get control freaky or cops have that bully tendency in them will act that way when they catch a whiff that someone on a call is stressed out or has a mental health background.The ignorance about mental illness,the power trip bullshit and bullying cops do to suffering scared hurting people is really fucking sick and unnecessary.And I HATE it.

Who's training these bozos because what they do when they treat someone in emotional pain that way, insures things very well will escalate until someone gets mistreated or shot.And that is the problem mentally ill/psychologically injured people are not CRIMINALS.

After all was said and done the counselor who I called to talk to who called the EMT's .. He said he didn't even CALL the cops at all.They asked if I had a weapon( he said no)and off the cops went on the call with the EMT's to blow shit way out of proportion..My counselor apologized for over-reacting.
The cops out here, They seem not to have that kind of human decency ,especially if you got psych issues. Ugh!

I am so sad for your friend's son.He was shot because cops are just stupid and trigger happy power tripping assholes these days it seems .Too often they over react and do not know shit about how to help and de-escalate people with mental illness,anymore,so they shoot them. This has GOT to stop. Someone has GOT to step up and TRAIN these stupid cops in how to help people in emotional pain..

[Sebastian Doyle]

91. I could see cops using a taser in this case, but not a gun.

And a lot of cops out there abuse tasers as much as guns, but in this case incapacitating the man would have been warranted. Killing him was not. :(

My condolences to Kim and her family, and to the OP. :grouphug:

My rage and fury to the trigger happy pigs responsible :grr:

[bertman]

93. The Sheriff said he felt the officer had no other choice in the situation.

This just says it all about the state of our law enforcement system. Absolutely shameful.

I am so sorry for this and for the loss of this young man's life.

[Thegonagle]

95. I'm so sorry to hear this. I can't imagine the horror of that scene. nt

[ClayZ]

96. That is just plain HORRIBLE!

Shame on the police!

I am sorry for your friend and you.

[AuntPatsy]

97. I grieve for his parents, sadly I see more such stories as our soldiers return, shades of nam...

These poor kids are just thrown to the dirt when they return, taught to be killing machines than they are supposed to return home and pretend that have not forever changed inside and will find it deeply hard to return to so called polite society where violence is looked down upon...welcome to the war casualties of which will continue to climb but will not be talked about..

[DeltaLitProf]

98. If a cop had shot my son that way . . .

. . . I would stalk that cop and shoot him dead myself. And no jury in the world would send me to the death chamber over it either.

[progressivebydesign]

105. What a horrific comment. DU can always be counted on to lay on the drama that way. n/t

[meuniermr]

99. This is what Grand Juries were invented for.

eom.

[OakCliffDem]

106. Kick

[NC_Nurse]

108. OMG, that's HORRIBLE!

I'm so sorry. My heart goes out to her and the whole family.

I hope there is a full investigation. Damn. :(

[CRF450]

109. I think you people are over-reacting a bit in anger against police officers

[BlueIris]

117. That is just awful. Terribly sorry for her loss. nt

[Sewsojm]

Trigger happy cop, I hope he's charged and convicted of murder!

[Waiting For Everyman]

119. They are armed psychotics.

I'm so sorry, for your friend and her family, and for you.

This is the government contempt for veterans. (My husband was a VN vet, 100% disabled PTSD, chronically ill from AO poisoning for 25 years, died a few months ago.)