Why this could be worse than the Great Depression ?

[kentuck]

In the 1930's, there was money and if you had it, you could get buy whatever you wanted. The problem was getting the money. The problem was that so many people had no money and some people had all the money. That seems to be the direction we are going with these numerous "bailouts".

Today, there is no money to be had because the credit markets have dried up and if you have money, it is becoming more worthless each day due to the heavy borrowing of our government.

Two states, CA and MA, one on the East coast and one on the West coast, have requested Federal help to bail them out of their huge deficits. When does this spread to all the states in the middle? When these states go broke, there will be no money for unemployment insurance and other programs people have depended on in the past. And if unemployment worsens, as it is likely to do in the next few months, the situation could get very serious. Food banks could be begging for food. Usually, the harder the times, the less the food is donated.

I apologize if I sound so pessimistic about the present crisis. Congress should not be on a vacation - they should be on the job in Washington. They cannot let this White House and Treasury give away another penny of the taxpayer's money. Each dollar the banks receive will only make it more difficult in the future, in my opinion.

Basically, we may be headed to a depression where your money is worthless, unlike in the 1930's, when your money was valuable if you had it. This time, it could be more like Germany after WWI when you had to carry your money in a basket to get a loaf of bread and the basket was worth more than the money that was in it...

[gollygee]

1. Also, we have more people and fewer farmers and less farmland

People went hungry last time but things could be much worse due to that.

[raccoon]

11. Exactly, in the 30's small farmers could at least feed their families.

There are a lot fewer small farmers nowadays.

[Mesteryo]

26. farmers back then were screwed...

They were either overproducing or facing drought. Many farms were being foreclosed on. Farmers were much worse off in 1930.

[raccoon]

28. There are a lot few farmers now too.

I see what you're saying, and yes, many farms were being foreclosed on.

Everyone speaks from their experience. My mother's family had a very small farm. Even before the Depression, they didn't have 2 nickels to rub together, but during the Depression, at least they had food.

[demodonkey]

80. I have a farm but need help farming it. Seriously. Near Pittsburgh. PM me. nt

[Mesteryo]

25. the problem then was overproduction....

By farmers actually. They were producing too much supply for not enough demand.

[Horse with no Name]

2. Piggly Wiggly has cases of 24 cans of beans for $5

I have several cases in my pantry.
They will surely come in handy in the coming times.

[KayLaw]

4. That's great.

What kind of beans?

[Horse with no Name]

5. Oddly enough

Bush Beans.:rofl:

[KayLaw]

9. OMG!

That is funny, and a darned good bargain, too!

[SpiralHawk]

18. Bush Beans for the Bush-Republicon Greatest Depression

[kentuck]

20. Sort of like the "Hoover flags" of 1930?

Hmmmm..

[MadinMo]

16. No Piggly Wiggly here, but I'll make a run to Aldi's.

PLUS, gas is now $2.74 in SW Missouri. Wow.

[iamjoy]

3. Congress Won't Do A Darn Thing Now

Congress won't do a darn thing until after the election. The environment is too politically charged, and - let's face it - we don't exactly reward political courage in this country.

(case in point, John McCain. He showed political courage in the 2000 primary - he lost. He has spent the past 8 1/2 years pandering to the people he once defied in order to get where he is today)

Congress won't do anything because most of them have opponents quick to pounce on and exploit any actions they take.

I don't think it will get as bad as the Great Depression - but it will get bad. And I don't think we will ever recover to be the same economic super power again.

[SammyWinstonJack]

7. It's a recession when your neighbor loses his job, it's a depression when you lose your own.

I am wondering if my husband lasts out the month. :-(

[iamjoy]

74. I Hope You Don't Think Me Insensitive

I do realize that many people are going to hurt a lot in this economic downturn/recession/depression. When I say it won't be as bad as the 1930s, that is more a big picture statement. We have unemployment compensation now (we didn't then). For the time being, we have social security. I feel reasonably confident that the money in my bank account is safe.

On the other hand, in some ways we are worse off going into this. Our personal debt is at an all time high. Finally, most of us do not know how to live off of the land (grow or forage for our own food). That's going to make things harder.

[aquart]

6. Not to mention no manufacturing capability since we offshored it.

Exactly how are we supposed to recover with no source of income? And let's not forget the next hurricanes.

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

71. Too much of the U.S. economy consists of pushing capital around

with middle men taking successive cuts. The insurance, legal, banking, and financial services industries don't really create anything but merely transfer wealth from one pocket to another. Yet, they have become one of the biggest aspects of the U.S. economy.

[Mesteryo]

79. well investment plays a big part in creating output...

The investment industry and banking industries are the ones who finance businesses and without them what would produce anything? Capital has always and will always be a big part of our economy.

The Soviets collapsed because they tried to eliminate capital.

[caledesi]

8. We don't make anything here...it's all outsourced!

:-( :-( :-(:-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-(:-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-(:-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-(:-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-(:-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-(:-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-(:-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-(:-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-(:-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-(:-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-(:-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-(:-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-(:-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-(:-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-(:-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-(:-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-(:-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-(:-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-(:-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-(:-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-(:-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-(:-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-(:-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-(:-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-(:-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-(:-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-(:-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-(:-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-(:-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-(:-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-(:-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-(:-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-(:-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-(:-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-(:-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-(:-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-(

[NNN0LHI]

10. The population now is about 3 times what it was then too

[SOS]

91. And the national debt is now $10 trillion

Under FDR there was no federal debt.
We are now in the position that England was in, back in 1956 during the Suez.
One phone call from Eisenhower (China) and the empire ends.

[Mesteryo]

92. the size of the debt..

Would only really be disturbing if Treasury bonds begin losing money. Actually now people are putting money into bonds.

FDR did eventually have debt during WW2.

[photogirl12]

12. I absolutely agree with you.

My fiance has been unemployed since January. We are both living on my paycheck and credit cards. It is a very scary place to be. Everyday I think "what happens if he doesn't get the job he has applied for (he waited 8 months for a police dispatchers job only to get turned down and he has now applied for another one)?" and "what happens if my store goes bankrupt because of this?" This is the most scared about the economy that I have ever been.

[Mesteryo]

31. I'm sorry for you but...

I don't think the economy is a total disaster. I fully agree that people will lose businesses and become unemployed but that happens in even a good economy. We just need a govt we can be confident in.

[asteroid2003QQ47]

63. Wouldn't Misterutopian be more apropos? n/t

[Mesteryo]

65. not really...

I never said we'll have no problems but our govt has the tools to fix our economy if the right people are in charge.

[asteroid2003QQ47]

72. Misternaivete then?

Diogenes like, you would bathe the "right people" in the light of your lamp.
Thus illuminated, they would then comprise "our govt," a government dedicated to doing the right thing, that being, "fix our economy."
Good luck with that!

[Mesteryo]

75. I meant the right people as in...

Effective leaders like Barack Obama or FDR. So you're saying govt. action is a bad thing for this economy?

[asteroid2003QQ47]

84. I piss on "your" govt.!

Born during FDR's administration I know my parents thought quite highly of him. As the years went by I learned that though he was probably not quite all he was cracked up to be, he likely was the right man at the right time.
Do you really mean to portray fledgling Obama in the same class as FDR at this point in his political career?
Is govt. action a bad thing? A couple of unfortunate encounters with the govt. early in my life caused me to look upon the govt. as the enemy and I have never had reason to deviate from that opinion. It is not my "govt." and when your blinders come off you will see that it is not "your" govt. either.
------------------------------------------------------------
"In general the art of government consists in taking as much money as possible from on class of citizens to give to the other.'
--Voltaire

[Mesteryo]

89. well unfortunately for you..

FDR was an effective leader who served the general welfare and will of the people. What viable alternative do you offer?

Sorry I'm into reason and not paranoid ranting..

[leftofthedial]

13. almost all the assets and means of production in the country

farms, the few remaining factories, etc. are in the hands of corporations, not people.

manufacturing base is all but gone, so we can't quickly begin creating value and being legitimately productive as a nation (instead of the empty, false "productivity" of the service and capital economy)

[kentuck]

14. Many parts of our economy are in worse shape than in 1930...

At least, then, we had the capacity to grow. Now we are quickly becoming a third world country, it seems? It's difficult to be optimistic at this time.

[Mesteryo]

24. what part of the economy is in worse shape than 1930...

We were on a gold standard in 1930, so economic growth was definitely more limited then.

[leftofthedial]

29. and economic "growth" is more illusory and artificial now

which is why we find ourselves in this mess

[kentuck]

52. The dollar is worth much less.

and the potential for growth and expansion is even less than in the 1930's, in my opinion. I believe there is a false optimism that the government can take care of people now better than then. I don't think that is necessarily so...

[leftofthedial]

67. I agree

I pin much hope on a new alternative energy industry and green technologies

once the oil barons are euthanized.

[Mesteryo]

83. the dollar was harder to control then..

Being on the gold standard extremely limited growth and it was much more difficult to control the money supply. Now as opposed to then the Fed can easily loosen money supply and cut interest rates. You can't possibly say the gold standard inspired more confidence.

[ChiciB1]

15. I Think I'm Developing An Ulcer... Talking With Neighbors And Many Say

they are AVOIDING watching the NEWS!! Doesn't make sense to me, even I have started back watched MSM because I'm really SCARED! Stopped watching them for a very long time, but now think I NEED to check "minute-by-minute" BLOWS!!!

:hurts: :scared:

[indepat]

17. You are being realistic, not pessimistic. Our nation has been on the road to financial destruction

since the Gipper instituted his "voodoo economics" which included both rate cuts at the top and a Greenspan-inspired much higher payroll taxes on a much higher base amount which meant the most affluent were sending Uncle Sam 28% of each marginal dollar while most of the middle class were sending over 35%, including payroll taxes (which, by the way, were subject to income taxes). Problem was Uncle Sam was immediately spending those much increased payroll taxes on other programs, mostly the military, instead of keeping those funds in a secure Al Gore-inspired lock box. GHWB and junior continued the voodoo economics and Greenspan accommodated junior's tax cuts through monetary policies which fueled rampant and irresponsible borrowing and lending necessary to keep the economy afloat and creating Greenspan's second bubble, the housing bubble. In the meantime, voodoo economics had spiraled the national debt from about $1 billion to $10 billion and Wall Street peddled their wares, unregulated securitized debt, much of it worthless, which, with the PNAC-inspired perpetual pre-emptive wars of choice, pretty much brings us to the present. Sadly, about one-half the voters prefer to stay the course instead of voting for a dubbed bleeding-heart liberal soft on communism, soft on crime, soft on fighting terrorism, soft on drugs, weak on national defense, you get the drift. :P

[defendandprotect]

30. Depends on Congress...will Democrats if elected reetablish taxes on wealthy---?

[defendandprotect]

32. ...will Democrats end monopolies, re-regulate corporations ---

fold them and put them back in the box?

[leftchick]

39. it will be their last option

their very last option. God knows how many borrowed Quadrillions we will go through by then.

:scared:

[defendandprotect]

66. Right .. .. they should be breaking these corps up right now --

"too big to fail" isn't the only problem --

they are big enough to challenge government as Thomas Jefferson pointed out long ago.


...crush in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country. Today, instead, the aristocracy of the corporation has grown to full maturity, wielding power over the state and its laws in the service of corporate aims." ~ Thomas Jefferson

What's new . . . ?

We have government representatives, capitalists - and our make-believe press pretending it's
something new ---

[ContinentalOp]

19. Great Depression?

Or the Greatest Depression?

[QueenOfCalifornia]

21. Realism

is not pessimism.

We had a notice that although we pay our bills on time - we will no longer be allowed to use credit cards.

[Mesteryo]

22. I disagree you're being pessimistic not realistic..

First of all the stock market hasn't dropped 10% or crashed so we're not in a depression. There's no evidence we're even close to a depression and frankly with the Fed able to control interest rates it's pretty impossible it'd et that far. So I'd say already expecting not only a depression but "worse than a depression" is pretty pessimistic.

Secondly people back then waited in lines to get food, food prices jumped significantly so how can you say everyone could afford food then? Most people can afford food now and I see little evidence we'll be waiting in lines to buy bread next year.

If people don't panic and start pulling money out of Wall Street and banks we won't go into a depression.

[QueenOfCalifornia]

40. Not so

The whole world is being effected by our sharp economic decline. Jobs that were hard enough to find a month ago are many times harder to find now. People, like me, who use a credit card to go out to dinner and buy birthday presents for my kids can't do it. We are not flakes. My husband is a professional who has been at his job for 25 years.

We have never had a creditor tell us that we can no longer use a card. We did have it happen this week. A woman where my husband works who has a 10,000 dollar line of credit left on a card was asked to not use it by the credit card people.

Home loans are much harder to get.

Car loans too.

My food bills have gone up significantly.

My husbands job is sound but we will get no pay raise to help with the mounting costs.

Maybe you are well off. But for me the truth is, I am a stay at home Mom but now I will have to find any job I can and make my little kids stay in the shitty 6 to 6 program at the underfunded school. Not what we wanted for our kids. I will maybe make enough working part time to help with the groceries.

People are being forced out into the streets in middle America. More homeless people nation wide. It isn't just some guy on the DU being pessimistic. It is about a faulty economy which is upside down.

See this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eBIJH6--vsM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZ8ovdJx5_s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fsBs2o9Q58Y&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8F3Wvqhjv18&feature=related

There are many, many examples of people just like me being forced into the street.

So... You can call me a whiner and a pessimist but I am looking at the world through where I am right now, this minute.

[Mesteryo]

41. I agree the economy is in bad shape..

I'm not saying that is pessimistic to say. I'm saying it's pessimistic, not realistic, to already plan for a depression or say it's going to be worse than a depression.

I'm not making light of your situation or the near recession we are in.

[QueenOfCalifornia]

45. Near recession?

WTF are you drinking?

Or smoking.

[Mesteryo]

46. well technically we're not in a recession..

A recession means two consecutive quarters of negative growth but we definitely have symptoms of recession. I'm not saying "the fundamentals" of our economy are strong."

[Selatius]

51. That's a raw definition, but it is one that the NBER does not use at all.

The Nat'l Bureau of Economic Research use several criteria and not just GDP to date the start and end of a recession. Typically, the NBER will call a recession when it is already well under way or is even coming to an end. Given that January 2008 was the first month where job losses surpassed job creation, it is fairly reasonable to assume that if the NBER does back date the start of this recession, and they likely will, it would be around that month, which basically means we've probably been in a recession for three quarters now.

There has been no month in all of 2008 so far that has seen job creation surpassing job losses. For the average person on the street, they are in a recession. Unemployment numbers and job numbers are what they care about. GDP is something they don't really care about.

[Mesteryo]

56. I'm not disputing what you're saying...

We just ended a quarter and going into another quarter so obviously the numbers aren't in yet. You don't really know you had a recession until you're well into it.

I guess I should've said we weren't in a recession the last two quarters.

[Selatius]

58. True with Q3, but Q2 and Q1 numbers have been out a while now. They were dismal.

In terms of unemployment, real income, industrial production, and wholesale-retail sales, informally I'd say we're in a recession. They likely won't back date Q1 or Q2--assuming they will do so--until Q3 numbers are in, but in the mean time, I've been moving as if they have already called it.

[kentuck]

47. If the market drops below 9000 today...?

which is very possible, that will mean a 25% drop since it was above 12,000. This is much worse than 10%???

[Mesteryo]

50. sorry I misspoke...

I meant to say a 10% drop in GDP.

[2speak]

23. Because I wasn't alive during the 1st Great Depression?

[defendandprotect]

27. There are enough government resources which can be used for the benefit

of the public . . . IF that's done.

Capitalism still has hold on America -- and on Congress.

There is much work to be done in America --

nationalize oil industry --

put electric cars on the roads --

subsidize both manufacture and purchase ---

get the gas guzzlers off the highways --

Get working on environment --

Overturn the trade agreements and don't let those corps back in --

TARIFFS --

[defendandprotect]

33. The fight will continue over control of nation's wealth and resources . .. .

which side of that battle will Democrats be on ?

[Taverner]

34. I actually think we'll have it better than during the Great Depression

Faster access to cash, international network of systems - of course, this means the US Dollar might also go into the toilet - and it wouldn't surprise me if people started getting accounts in Euros...

[defendandprotect]

36. Can you get an account in Euros . . . ???

[Horse with no Name]

37. An "account" or "accunt?

:blush:

[Taverner]

38. You can, but you have to jump through a bunch of hoops

And I wouldn't recommend it yet - the Euro has to crash next.

But yes, you can, and there are laws regarding it

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

35. Best case: A long deep recession with inflation due to drop of the dollar.

Worst case: Civil unrest leading to imposition of martial law or the people turning to a "strong" leader.

It's getting ugly and it's going to get uglier as the ripple effect of job losses and inflation set in.

[Marsala]

42. We may not get inflation

The money supply is contracting due to deleveraging and banks' unwillingness to loan. So we may avoid stagflation and instead face the prospect of deflation... which Helicopter Ben knows how to handle.

[Selatius]

53. More like disinflation, not deflation.

If you added in energy and food costs back into CPI and removed some of the other gimmicks Reagan et al. added into the CPI calculations, inflation in the US is probably hovering around 10 percent. If inflation fell from 10 percent to 5 percent because of a drop in gas prices or a recession, it's still inflationary. It'd only be deflationary if it got into negative numbers territory.

[Mesteryo]

44. technically we're not in a recession...

But if things don't change with credit I bet we'll get there. We haven'thad negative growth yet though.

[Selatius]

55. It's the old definition. the NBER uses this standard now:

The NBER does not define a recession in terms of two consecutive quarters of decline in real GDP. Rather, a recession is a significant decline in economic activity spread across the economy, lasting more than a few months, normally visible in real GDP, real income, employment, industrial production, and wholesale-retail sales. For more information, see the latest announcement on how the NBER's Business Cycle Dating Committee chooses turning points in the Economy and its latest memo, dated 07/17/03.

http://www.nber.org/cycles/cyclesmain.html

[Mesteryo]

62. well regardless of that..

If the US economy doesn't grow by at least 2% it is worrisome so I agree the economy is bad.

[pitohui]

43. well here is my opinion why it is worse today

in the 1930s if you got sick and couldn't pay the doctor you could give him a chicken or some milk from your cow or whatever and he'd do what he could and even if he wouldn't take chicken or milk medical science was such that you probably weren't missing much anyway

today if i can't pay $10k for the magical chemo pill that ALL of our taxpayer dollars paid to develop, i will be left to die, while the rich person will be allowed to go on living

i'm not quite sure why i should tolerate that, and maybe the average sick person is too sick to care that they are being killed for lack of money for something that could have been cured -- but it seems like at least a few of them would pick up a gun and say "if i'm going down i'm not going down alone"

why should i run for breast cancer so rich women can get a cure and i'll be left to die from something we know how to cure? that's just one example

rich people live decades longer in some neighborhoods than poor people, how much longer are they going to tolerate it? WHY should they tolerate it? in the 30s there was at least some fellow feeling, but now we are two different species -- the well to do who may be active and healthy into their 90s and the rest of us who start hurting and dying in our 50s

[Mesteryo]

48. How in the heck do you figure..

More people in the 30s could afford health care than people today? The govt. spends over $500 billion on Medicare and Medicaid, giving millions of people who can't afford it access to healthcare. Yeah we need to improve our system and give access to more people but in 1930s the govt. offered nothing whatsoever.

[pitohui]

61. read for comprehension

there was no modern health care as we know it in the 1930s so rich and poor were in the same boat

today, we see a difference of decades in the expected life expectancy between rich and poor, the difference is access to modern medical pharmaceuticals and technology

take rural south dakota where some counties have a life expectancy of the mid 40s (the same life expectancy of anyone born in 1900!!!!) and compare it to the life expectancy of someone born to a wealthy family in manhattan (over age 80)

if you don't see that as a real difference, i guess i'm unable to help you

[Mesteryo]

64. I still dispute your argument..

For one your argument revolves around the fact medical science was so far behind that anyone regardless of living condition would die of simple pneumonia. That alone proves we're better off now.

People in the 1930s also mostly paid for healthcare out of pocket so of course the rich had more access to doctors and medicine than poor people or hell even working class people.

[Jacobin]

87. There was no medical insurance in the 1930s

In fact the AMA fought the idea of medical insurance tooth and nail when the idea began to be discussed. Of course its been a huge boon to them and has made many doctors extremely wealthy.

My great grandfather was a physician in those days. He could deliver babies, give shots for pain, set broken bones, operate for appendicitis and do a lot of other good. He and his fellow doctors weren't looking for a new mercedes every year. They were paid modestly for what they did and bartered often during the depression. Also the pharma companies had not been taken over by crime syndicates like they have now. Back then, no one would have had the idea of pricing life saving drugs out of the reach of most people so the CEOs could buy a new corporate jet. Business people and professionals were not rapacious and had a sense of responsibility. That has ended.

[Mesteryo]

88. but still....

Medicines and medical tests costing alot isn't all just a big conspiracy, it's not like pricing is unregulated. The problem involves patenting of medical products can limit supply. In the 1930s healthcare was less expensive because there was less access meaning less demand.

I agree unregulated insurance is pretty bad but without insurance there's no way as many people would have access to health care so of course our country would spend less on health care.

[tismyself]

49. or like here in 1865

bread riots... worthless money...

[ScreamingMeemie]

54. That's what I was thinking. The carpetbaggers and the fake railroads

are coming. I liken the real estate market to the railroad "boom" going out west.

[tismyself]

59. if I had the time

I think it would be interesting to research the connections from the economic collapse of 1865 to the present. On the surface, there seem to be more than a few similarities.

I'll probably regret writing this, but I can't help but to think that the federal government only cut its teeth on the south - then moved on to chewing the entire world.

[ScreamingMeemie]

60. More than, for sure.

It's odd, because I have been reading a book on Reconstruction and the similarities abound.

[earth mom]

57. It's going to be a different depression that's for sure.

And this time people will have their cars to live in. :yoiks:

[yellerpup]

68. Food banks are already begging for food.

I'm in the metro NY area and our office got a call last week that a major food pantry serving pregnant women, abused women, homeless women, and children begging for immediate help because their cupboards were bare. We are doing a drive, but we won't be delivering any food until the middle of November. Things are already desperate for those without resources. It's only going to get worse, I fear.

[Mesteryo]

76. that's not a food supply issue...

It's probably more an issue of people giving less to charity when the economy is bad. It's the same issue as consumer demand for goods and services. If people have more money in their pockets charitiies have more money.

[yellerpup]

81. People need jobs, alright.

Jobs would cure the hunger in this country.

[Mesteryo]

82. true people need jobs but...

The core of our economy is consumers. Without people buying goods and services employers will cut their work force.

[yellerpup]

86. If employers keep laying off their workforce and outsourcing jobs

we won't have any consumers. Gotta have money to go shopping.

[kentuck]

69. In the next couple of three weeks....

I would expect that we will see several states coming forth with serious revenue problems. This is very serious.

[Mesteryo]

77. many states have had revenue problems for 7 years now..

They've had revenue problems due to the 2001 recession made even worse by 9/11. Bu this will prolong it. We need a middle class tax cut for short term relief.

[XemaSab]

70. California has already extended unemployment benefits

:(

[serrano2008]

73. This could be worse than the great depression because it affects me!

I wasn't alive back then but now I've got my own business and we're all hurting. Give the money to the people, not these rich people.

[Mesteryo]

78. the govt. can still give moneyto the people...

Like a tax refund and increased transfer payments but the 700 billion bailout should stay.

[asteroid2003QQ47]

85. If we all become incognizant cheerleaders* for the puppet master, will we...

too enjoy the perpetual optimism and attendant peace of mind that you
steadfastly display?
(*Or is, as it seems, something more sinister than that?)

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

"It may be that we are puppets-puppets controlled by the strings of society. But at least we are puppets with perception, with awareness. And perhaps our awareness is the first step to our liberation."
--Stanley Milgram (1974)

[Mesteryo]

90. I'm not a cheerleader for Bush or McCain..

And I fail to see the need to be as cynical and pessimistic as you. I'm glad Martin Luther King didn't act like you.

[asteroid2003QQ47]

93. You see Bush/McCain as puppet masters!?

:rofl:

That I find playing kissyface with with the puppetmasters repugnant makes me
cynical and pessimistic? Have you no shame?
You may be glad Martin Luther King didn't act like me but, given the chance ,I'll bet Martin Luther King would wish that he had.

[Mesteryo]

94. who is the puppet master oh wise one?

Since you know everything.