VIDEO: American Soldiers in Iraq Talk About Getting Away With Killing Civilians

[Truth2Tell]

A frank yet unsurprising video at LiveLeak:

www.liveleak.com/view?i=f66_1223515331

A preemptive note to the flamers: I don't post this to bash America or American troops. This is just another reminder of the realities of war and occupation, by the US and others, in Iraq and elsewhere.

[walther]

1. Hmm, considering I have a son in the Air Force and one in the Marines,

I don't know why people post this totally debunked garbage.

[Webster Green]

3. Do you have a link to the de-bunking?

Obviously US forces kill a lot of civilians in this illegal occupation.

Where was this particular stuff debunked? :shrug:

[SammyWinstonJack]

4. Willing to bet he doesn't have a link debunking this.

[Smith_3]

15. Didn't you read? The poster has family - members - in - the - military !

So he or she obviously doesn't need a stupid link to back up their claims. Family members in teh military is sacred grounds. Don't question the words of teh military family. They *know* cause they have *been*. :eyes:

[walther]

9. Statements on video by people professing to have served saying it happened is not evidence. NT

[Webster Green]

11. Oh, it's evidence alright..

Perhaps not proof, but evidence that needs to be investigated further.

What about the link to the de-bunking? :shrug:

[Truth2Tell]

12. Actually walther,

videotaped statements of witnesses and participants are considered pretty solid evidence in most courts and certainly by most people. There have also been numerous convictions of soldiers by Military Courts for these exact things. Here is an example (this is called a link):

From: Time Magazine

Murder or Exhaustion in Iraq?

By Jim Frederick/Camp Liberty, Iraq Friday, Feb. 08, 2008

A trial unfolding in a makeshift courthouse in a dusty corner of the U.S. Army's main Baghdad base camp complex is demonstrating in stark and dramatic terms just how far some American soldiers are being pushed on the battlefield, just how doggedly the Army is willing to pursue serious alleged crimes like murder — and just how interested the Iraqi government is in the process.

Part of an elite parachute infantry sniper-scout platoon, Sgt. Evan Vela is accused of murdering an unarmed Iraqi that his five-man squad had taken captive after the man breached their hideout. The squad was conducting a mission on May 11 last year near the city of Iskandariyah, which is 30 miles south of Baghdad and the southern-most point of Iraq's infamous "Triangle of Death." Vela is also accused of helping to plant an AK-47 on the body to make the kill look more justified. If found guilty of murder, he faces a maximum sentence of life in prison. Two other soldiers have already been tried on similar charges in the same death, as well as the deaths of two other Iraqis. In separate courts martial that took place in nearby Camp Victory late last year before juries comprised of officers and enlisted soldiers, the two soldiers were both acquitted of the murder charges but convicted of planting evidence on the bodies.

http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1711636,00.html">More here.

A few more links:

http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1711761,00.html?iid=sphere-inline-sidebar">Murder Verdict in Iraq: Guilty

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/09/23/AR2007092301431.html">U.S. Aims To Lure Insurgents With 'Bait'

[Truth2Tell]

6. I hope your sons come home alive and

with their humanity intact.

I also hope you stick around DU and read more about the realities of our occupations of foreign lands. As one with such close ties to the military I'm sure you are well aware of the horrors and costs of war.

And FYI, it's customary to post links to claims on DU, either supporting your statements or debunking others. Welcome. :hi:

[SammyWinstonJack]

7. You are such a nice person!

[rebel with a cause]

2. This is a war between the military and civilians,

and once you get use to killing civilians it doesn't matter sometimes if they are armed or not. This is war, and unfortunately in wars the soldiers are taught to look at the citizens of the country as less than human, and given the right to kill without reason. This is war..and it is an unnecessary war which makes it worse. This is war and I hate war, and I don't agree with any war unless it is completely and totally necessary and those wars are few and far between. :cry:

[Gwendolyn]

5. Every single war ever waged...

... has been replete with the murder of children and innocents, rape, suicide, and ruined lives. Why would this occupation be any different? It's heartbreaking.

I hope the troops get to come home soon and the Iraqi people start to rebuild some semblance of a country.

[Truth2Tell]

8. So true.

I would add refugees, torture, PTSD and so much more. On every side of every war.

It is precisely because these outcomes are so predictable that those making the decision to use war as a tool of policy bear moral responsibility, even if those outcomes are not the intent.

[Gwendolyn]

13. Well, torture has always been a part of our world...

There was that French General... the one who lost an eye, wrote a book waaaaay back in '02 or close to, saying that water boarding was the cheapest, most effective torture known to man. Everyone thinks Gitmo is somehow new. It isn't. Every country engages in torture. Always have, us too. There are pictures of what went on in Algeria that would make people wonder if we are actually human.

My German parents have been so fucked up by the incapacity of their parents to deal with anything. The Jewish side of our family always asked the same as I. Why are our parents so fucked up? Grandparents obsessed with (the imagined potential for lack of) food, depression, fear, guilt, etc. What do we imagine the Iraqi people think? It takes a century to forget the disgusting aspects of war. Oh well, guess there's always only 30 years between them so there's always a fucked up generation that is too incapacitated to actually think, which somehow okays the next war.

[BlooInBloo]

10. Don't wanna watch it. I believe you.

[Gwendolyn]

14. Reality bump.